1. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK

2. NO more INSANE BANTER...."if you love me If i love you blah blah blah babble from either;...BUT most important from YOU CAREN cause you are the one posting here...

3. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK other than to apologize for your actions and behaviors this weekend...then walk away do not wait for or expect ANYTHING from him...

4. ENGAGE in NO fights...no nothing no matter what it takes for you to do so...not even cold ignoring...be CIVIL

5. NO MORE drama in YOUR home..you take responsibility for that one ....no yelling no name calling no emotional crying no banging on the shower door ...no note writing...no NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6. No more calling this recovery

7. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK...

8. You do need to go to a shelter to seek out resources on where you can get assistance in controling your actions and temper.....you need to do this for yourself....

9. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK

10. get your ducks lined up...work on the job, financial issues...etc....

ARK

I read your first post and had such strong feelings, I had to wait. And from what I've read it doesn't sound like many have taken this tack...but:

Caren, YOU ARE THE ABUSER!! You had NO RIGHT to slap your H, no matter what words he called you. I don't want to be misconstrued, your H is an abuser too, with words and then with his hands, but SO ARE YOU!!!

YOU have crossed a line, and I'd be willing to bet it's not the first time. For some reason you allowed yourself to let go. You said in your mind that whatever he was saying or doing was enough to allow you to hit him.

My suggestion, you BOTH get away from each other.

Will it ever be OK? Do you think he is as afraid you will fly off the handle as much as you are afraid of him?

It's too easy to freezeframe this situation on your H hitting you and say he was hte abuser...and leave it at that. And granted, he was the abuser...but so were YOU!!! Youir actions did not allow him to hit you, but neither did his actions allow you to hit him. Time to start looking at what you have learned (and especially not learned) in your numerous anger classes, therapy and figure out if you want to abuse people the rest of youir life...

Grrrrrrr, all the times I've felt like hitting my H and didn't...does that mean it's OK now? I don't even slap his leg in jest because it can be misunderstood (would he do the same to me?)

Caren...maybe it's not OK for you to BE in an R right now until you work this out.

{{{{Caren}}}}

First off, I understand completely how you felt. Is there anything worse than discovering continued contact when you are supposed to be in recovery? I am admittedly guilty of the same thing, when I discovered my H was still involved with ow after he moved dd and I to the other side of the city and had me quit my job I knew I wouldnt be able to do any damage had I hit him so I kicked out his plasma Tv. There I was, in so much pain and confusion crying and asking God "why!" and he just sat there calling me names and telling me to shut up, blind rage just took over. It was wrong and I shouldnt have done it, just like you shouldn't have slapped your H, but you already know that so I wont sit here and repeat what has been previously posted.

Caren, I seriously think that you need to get away for a little while and take a long hard look at yourself and what has led you to this road in yours and your childrens life. Maybe you know the answer to that, so now its time to work on fixing it. Your recovery with fwh isnt working, whether its you or him and its time to say "when". No, im not saying "leave him!" im saying its time to try something else, find out what YOU need to be happy and feel safe. Whats going on now anyway? I hope you are okay.

Michelle

Sorry I haven't replied, I try to stay off the computer unless I'm by myself, otherwise I let the kids have it.

I'm still here, I'm sure that a lot of you are going to go ballistic on me, and that's okay. I come here for advice, and you give it. Some of it is hard to read, but I'm a big girl, and it doesn't make me mad.

Yes, I AM the abuser, I have gotten physical with him more times than I can count and he has never laid a hand on me until that day.....again, a person can only take so much.

Did I handle this sitch in a Godly manner? Absolutely not, and have asked for forgiveness since then.

I decided against going to a shelter, I feel that this was an isolated incident. My husband did not come home and apologize to me and say he'd never do it again, he came home, we talked, he said he didn't know what to think about what happened, he said "I just reacted, I didn't even think about it, thank God I didn't close my fist. I swore I'd never hit a woman, and in all the times you've hit me, I've never even come close to doing that, I don't know Caren, I don't know if we can fix that, how can I be sure that this won't happen again? I know I hurt you when I hit you, I don't like what I've become."

I didn't coddle him, I didn't tell him it was okay that he hit me.

He took yesterday off of work, and stayed home with the kids and played video games. (I don't know what that was about).

Let me clear up some things real quick. I didn't call the police, because A....I started it, and B...not really liking the going to jail idea. (My neck is okay by the way).

I don't live in Canada...I live in Ohio.

I haven't attempted suicide multiple times.....the 1st time I actually considered doing it was post D-Day, and called for help at the feeling, didn't have a plan.

Yes, I've left my husband 4ish times, so many I don't remember the exact number.

It's funny that so many of you think that I haven't changed, because people in real life, that know me would whole heartedly disagree.....I'm completely different (Much to my Mother and Friends dismay) they like violent Caren, they like the woman that would rather cuss you out than look at you, they do not appreciate that I'm going to church, they don't appreciate my Bible references, and they act as if it's all just a ploy.

I have had this horrible temper my entire life, it's not a new development, it doesn't make it right, but it is true.

I'm not ready to give up on this, I don't think one hit in retaliation for my several blows and being degraded by having dirt thrown in ones face an abuser makes.

It's me......it's all me. I am only treated as badly as I allow him to treat me, wouldn't you say that's true?

So anyway, that's the 411, I'm sure it's bound to be unpopular....but it is, as always, the truth.

Your advice, is appreciated, not always followed, but appreciated none the less.

I wasn't sure I was even going to post when I came on here today, I wasn't sure that I should, I sorta feel like you guys think I post this stuff as a way of drawing attention to myself.....which, btw, isn't true.

My situation is a messy one, and I liked the anology that I could clean it up just like I've done with my house.

All food for thought. I am an intelligent person, I do know right from wrong, and more times than not I do manage to do the right thing. Yes, I have a temper, and I am DEAD wrong for hitting him.

It occurs to me.......Okay, I have this awful temper, right? But when I get mad at my Mother, I don't hit her, when I get mad at my kids I don't hit them......why don't I restrain myself with my husband? I also have the answer to that one.........we're back to my lack of respect, I don't hit my mother because I respect her.....and by the same token how could I possibly respect my husband and be able to raise a hand to him.

Working towards being a better me.

-Caren

**P.S. Note that I DID take the phrase *In recovery* off of my profile, as I agree, that's not what I'm in.

Caren,

That is honesty. I am impressed. And I think with God's help, you are well on your way to being the woman you really wanted to be.

You know we are looking out for you, girl. Sometimes it can be rough. Sometimes we might even get it wrong. Hang with us, because we are definitely hanging with you.

God is working all of this for your good, even as you read this.

In His arms.

Caren:

BRAVO ! I think you are indeed starting to "get it". Hopefully you will have less setbacks along the way.

Goodluck

LM

Caren -

Let me get this right. You slapped your WH when he called you a [censored], after he has been messing around with another woman. Right so far?

Then your WH slapped you so hard he snapped your neck.

And now YOU are the abuser?

Believer, if that all it were, I would agree with you. But Caren has admitted to years of getting so upset that she has slapped or hit her husband. And that does make her an abuser. Of course, now that he has hit her, he is too. But as I said before, he isnt here right now. She is, and we would like to help her. Hopefully, he will also seek help.

I think her last post went a long way towards that. I really think she gets it. No one is more in Caren's corner than I am. But we cant sugar coat what she brings to the table. Whether her hsuabnd comes back or not, she needs to be a better Caren. That is what is important right now!!

In His arms.

MM -

I should probably bow out of this thread. I have been an abused woman - twice. I have never hit a man, but have been beat. The first time it was a slap. I made all kinds of excuses for that. Then it progressed to blacking my eyes, knocking out my teeth, etc.

I see so much disrespect here, from her husband. Yes, she should not be slapping him, but come on.

believer - There has been, and still is, much disrespect from Caren's husband. That's never really been an issue.

The issue that MUST also be addressed, however, is the "biblical, moral, even secular truth" that two wrongs never make a "right."

It is why Jesus cautions us, when faced with righteous anger over sin, to "be angry, but in your anger do not also sin."

The "biggest" disrespect from her husband so far has NOT been his first time slap back at her. It was his affair. Though I do NOT agree with any slapping, hers or his, on the grand scale of things I guess I'd take a slap if I could erase the greater pummeling of the affair. Not really, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Physical abuse in the marriage is also "marital unfaithfulness," in my book. It, too, would be grounds for a divorce, especially if the "hitting spouse" was a non-Christian. In that case both "reasons" for letting a spouse go would apply.

The "bottom line" is that both Caren and her husband need to surrender their lives and their choices regarding actions to Christ. They need to "live to please God," not themselves. Right now, they are both operating with a "healthy dose" of self-centeredness and selfishness. That, in turn, allows their "Taker" to take control and be destructive to the marriage.

Change CAN happen overnight, but it takes a long time usually to engrain that change into "habit." It takes time for others to see the changes as "real and permanent" and not just temporary and for manipulative reasons. And CHANGE, both personal and marital, ALWAYS starts with the individual. None of us can control, or "act for," another. We can only commit to change within ourselves.

Undoubtedly Caren, like the rest of us, has many things that could stand changing or improving about herself. But the most prominent destructive force in her life right now is her anger and the idea that the anger gives her the "right" to physically strike her husband and act in very "unloving" ways. So, instead of trying to make ALL the changes at once or, in effect, "eat the elephant in one bite," the place to begin is with the most prominent problem....anger (justified and/or unjustified) and the way that Caren RESPONDS to, and ACTS in response to, that emotion.

Caren claims to be a Christian. Right now she is reacting like Peter and trying to "cut off ears." What we want to work on is a more "Christ-like" response. Habits are NOT easy to change, and changing them requires MORE than just saying something like, "I won't do that anymore." It also requires putting something else in place of the "old response" that is positive in nature as the "response of choice" when faced with the events that cause the feelings of anger.

She, and we, would love her marriage to recover and be changed and better than the "old marriage that wasn't working too well." IT can, but it begins with Caren, the faithful spouse, in the bigger "drama" of the nuclear winter brought on by the infidelity nuclear bomb.

God bless.

That was very honest.

Now what?

What is your plan for NEVER HITTING AGAIN? Hitting, punching, slapping, even in play, will never be allowed again...how will you cope without having that as a tool you use in an argument?

It is that lack of respect that gives you the permission to strike your H. So how do you begin respecting him again?

It seems you have allowed yourself to be in a position wher eyou think you are better than he is...like a parent and a child. And you assert your will upon your H. What kind of a M is taht though? Do you want to be M to your son? Do you want to feel superior and have him fear you? Or do you want to live and love as equals? That means being vulnerable (ugh). That means respecting him as a person, not necessarily his choices.

This is EXTRA challenging when he is in an A...how can you respect him when he is having an A? OK, so you show him no DISRESPECT then...

Make a list with 2 columns...one: all the things you do that show your H respect two: all the things you do that show him disrespect. Vow to cut out ALL of column two from your life, and fill you rlife with only column one +.


True, you are not in recovery. C is continuing. He has left the door open for C, and has stepped inside. How do you negotiate an end to the A...how do you move back to diplomatic relations when you've escalated this to war, oh dear president...

Believer, I dont think you should bow out. As a matter of fact, your experience helps keep this whole thing grounded.

I agree with you about her husband. 100%!!! But when you say "Yes, she should not be slapping him, but come on..." you are essentially condoning her behavior. Anytime you use the word "but" it negates everything said before it. The issue we have been trying to get across here is that hubby shouldnt be touching Caren. But, also, Caren should not be touching hubby. The two issues are NOT linked. Does not matter what the other one does. Caren should do right. If her husband was on here. he would get the same message about himself.

That is all that has been said here. We do not disagree with you about the abuse he has put on her. Not at all. But please do not condone her anger and abuse that she has frequented on him.

If Caren is to make it, and that is who we are helping here...she needs to address her issues. And as was said above, her first issue is her anger.

In His arms.

Caren, you need to train yourself. You need the idea of inflicting violence to become so distasteful that you avoid it even in your dreams.

Do as ark says, Caren. Stop trying to force all this relationship talk.

"Do you love me?" Come on Caren, knock that off. What are you, thirteen?

Do you see this pursuit-and-withdrawal pattern? If so, then stop pursuing. It does no good.

I'm on your team, Caren. Just shakin' you a little.

GC

This may be simplistic... but if your relationship induces you to kick the crap out of each other maybe its a relationship that you don't want to be in.

Not a good example to set for the children. Not all relationships are worth saving.

Miker

I doubt anyone here thought that caren's taking her pretty much self evident and barely committed husband BACK in to the home was a good idea...

He has not changed...though nor has he really ever committed to changing...and Caren KNEW this when she took him BACK in to the home...none of that excuses the chaos...but neither is the chaos surprising....

Her husband remains the alligator in the tub...and foolish is the person who attempts to pet the alligator as if it is a kittykat.....

Caren
please attend anger management classes for yourself...
please use the resources at local shelters to get help in controling yourself...

You can not just give lip service to change or wanting to change...you need a concrete plan with goals that TEACHES you different from what is known...

ALL of us want to slip back in to familiar patterns in conflict....it is the easiest route...and your known route is no good for anyone involved...

caren please take this to the next level and commit to actions that bring about change...


ARK^^

Getting slapped in the face provokes an almost-reflex reaction. It doesn't matter that a slap doesn't injure or that a woman is smaller than the man -- the injury is not the driver, the pain is, and getting slapped in the face is a nasty stinging pain that makes one temporarily insane. And then what happens is a surprise to both people.

Rabbit

Hi folks, nothing new to report. All calm on the western front.

I think that maybe the *incident* has shown Mark how out of control things have become. He's calling me and telling me when he'll be home, he's telling me he loves me.......I'm just rolling with it, not getting my hopes up.

Just thought I'd stop by and update my post.

-Caren

So, just more of the same?

*sigh*


ark's got the right idea.

Well lets see:

*I am working as a waitress until I find another job

*I have my resume out everywhere.

*I cannot attend anger management as my insurance will be terminated in the near future.

*It would be the same for IC.

And I'm sure Ark does have the right idea........most of you have the right idea, i.e.


But how does one go about doing that?

-Caren

Caren -

Good to see you posting. Have you looked around for any recovery groups - maybe through a church or something? Where I live there are tons of them.

There is a good book called "The Dance of Anger". You might look for it.