knight wrote:

Yes, you are presumptuous.

"What if 2 "adulterers" learned their lesson, were remorseful, made ammends, they are still adulterers "permanently soiled and dishonorable" then?"

Of course! How is that marriage suddenly "honorable"? If you steal a car, but later "apologize" for stealing it and even pay for it, is it still stolen? Yep.

"Is there any way in your world for adulterers to rise above their poor judgement and lead good lives?"

Of course there is. I have many former wayward spouse "friends" on this forum. I believe many of them are now very admirable people and I am proud to consider them as friends. I hope they feel the same way about me. How is this possible for a non-Christian?

"Your exw may have exhibited bad judgement, time will tell, but that has nothing to do with the principles involved."

This statement has me really baffled. What exactly do you mean - "bad judgement" having nothing to do with the "principles" involved.

As an aside, in reading your posts I get the impression that on your planet, all "sin" is the same. Adultery is no worse than stealing candy and all that's needed is, "oops, my bad. Sorry. All better." Please tell me I've misinterpreted you.

Finally - "Wat, it seems fairly common people want to make their experience the yardstick for values."

Seems like a good thing to do. Were you suggesting they (we) not?

WAT

wat...Seems like a good thing to do. Were you suggesting they (we) not?

Yes that is what I am saying. Values must be determined through the observation and experiences of many people, or taught by mentors. Otherwise it is just a reflection of an individuals own desires, usually a very bad method for figureing out anything as complex as a value system.

JE,

The difference for me in this whole mess for those(OP/WS) after committing adultery is that they could be forgiven in my mind(if in my case) if they stopped seeing each other and made ammends,NO marriage.To me,that is where I can talk to and care about a WS because they have done the right thing,the selfless thing and ended what was a morally,ethically,spiritually,emotionally,etc wrong relationship.

If they marry anyway that does not erase what they did and does not condone it either.It's still wrong only even more so because now they are attempting to erase the past by the very measures they disregarded before: marriage,vows,sacraments,trust.It's totally hypocritical.Go and sin no more doesn't include go ahead and get married and sin no more.Two adulterers getting married is not going ahead and sinning no more it IS sinning more.

Like WAT's analogy,I'll use this one which is similarly important to me if it had happened: what if someone stole my baby from the Nursery for some demented woman who couldn't give birth herself(homewrecker),so she covets/takes mine.Later on,it's found out where my baby is and I want her back but the woman exclaims she is sorry but still attempts to keep her.For many of us,we hold our marriages as sacred parts of our lives.It is wrong for anyone to come along and try to take that from us or destroy it.OP's have no business being around or involved in our marriages or children and have no business or right to try and usurp our place in either,as husband or wife and as parent.And many here do know that OP's will try and become parental to our children too once married and even long before that while they are involved with one of the children's parents Immorally.

To me Thou Shalt not commit adultery doesn't mean "Well,you committed adultery but it's ok.You can still go ahead and get married,even though the previous marriage and family was destroyed just for your desire.Good luck!" How else can you look at it? There is nothing redeeming about a WS and an OP getting married.

JMO.

They are just trying to "legitimize" their sordid relationship by marriage JE.

O

Who would disagree with that? Certainly not me. My values were learned as taught by my parents, teachers, etc. AND through my life experiences. So I think you agree that using life's experiences as a yard stick is part of the learning process, right?


Minor premise, major conclusion. Does not meet the test of logic, IMHO.

One's "desires" is a totally different topic. I have lots of desires that run counter to my values to pursue, thus I don't pursue them. No different than anyone else, I'd say.

What's any of this got to do with being Christian or not?

WAT

My view is a bit different. My wife wanted out because she beleived I had "wronged" her too much. She never had an affair, nor did I, during our marriage. She met a guy shortly after the divorce was final on a flight. They struck up a conversation regarding divorce and began an email, and phone relationship. He lives a thousand miles from us. Two months after divorce she has flown out to be with him for a weekend and today left to stay a week. This could be a lot of things...a rebound relationship, a middle age crisis reaction (wife is 42 and kids are in college) or he could be her "perfect" man.

I don't like the fact she has found someone so quickly while I have no desire to date (I think of rebuilding our relationship) but I understand she feels "free" from marriage. If this guy is the right person for her, I would be happy for her should she marry him. I would also feel hurt and betrayal if that happens... but I love my EW and what her to find happiness. If it can't be with me I won't harbor ill will towards her.

Man, I've wondered that too. Several months ago, in the midst of a fight, XWW said how awful it is to see my name pop up on her call display on those rare occasions that I actually have to phone her. Said it was a reminder of everything she'd done.

And yet she's keeping my name! I guess it's just as awful to hear herself introduced by my name? Or see it on her business cards? Or anywhere else? It just doesn't make any sense... everywhere she goes, she has a constant reminder of the husband and family she betrayed and deceived for years.

Weird...

"I say good luck to 'em both. Curious to see which one cheats first. "

hehe, seriously. You know it'll happen too.

To quote Dr. Phil : "If they'll do it WITH ya - they'll do it TO ya."

Justin, I hope for you that it turns into the final thing that helps you to fully let go of any feelings for her.

I wish I could totally not care if my stbx marries or not, but I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't bother me.

It's interesting to me to see how important the name thing is to you guys. I never realized how important that could be to a man.

Would it bother you if the woman you married had a hyphenated last name?

The only reason I've even considered not going back to my maiden name is because my son carries my WH's last name & I didn't want to be the one that was different.

My atty. says it would be a huge stinkin deal to go to court and try to have my son's last name changed.

Well, for now, despite Dr. Phil, she and her b/f having been living bissfully together for a year while I have suffered from loneliness, and wonder if I will ever find someone to love again. Again, I think the problem for me with her getting married so soon, is that it emphasizes just how different our lives are at this time. It's like pouring salt in a wound, or eating a big cheeseburger in front of a starving man.

Let them eat their cheap, greasy fast food! There's a feast for a king just beyond the horizon! Keep your chin up, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As soon as she can talk him into divorcing his wife; I expect they will marry. (If he does divorce her.) What does it mean to me? Really, not a lot. I feel bad, very bad for DD's; who are still affected. I feel bad for family members & friends, many who still don't believe that we're divorced or that xw has done what she's done. However for me; the dark days have passed, my marriage was not what I thought it was, xw is not who she portrayed, and xw refuses to see the signs that OM is a serial cheater (& has been for 20+ years). I suppose they deserve each other, but I know in my heart that once XW finds out about OM; (when he cheats on her) that her life will be utterly and completely ruined. There is nothing good about affairs or divorce. Nothing.

FR

My ex lives with his OW. After more than 2 years of being divorced. I guess I wish that they had either broken off completely or were married. It still seems in limbo. What is funny is OW wanted us to hurry and get divorced so they could get married, and I told her that wouldn't happen. She thought I was just being mean, when part of me was, but part of me was being factual. I knew he wouldn't. It was hard enough for him to commit to me and we dated 3.5 years. I try to not think about it though. He isn't one to make decisions- which put a kink in things when his daughter was born. I think I would probably still throw up and cry if I found out they got married, but at the same time, it would at least be closure. I think that is why divorce is worth than death sometimes- no closure.

Well, for all I know, they could be married now. But I don't really think it would bother me at all at this point. I might feel a little twinge, but only because I don't really believe in divorce, and never pictured myself as divorced. Even though his As and continued lying and cheating made divorce biblically ok for me, I still wrestle a little with the idea of being divorced. Though I've pretty much quit thinking of it as "divorced" and am just thinking of myself as "single." It helps.

At best, though, I think the most I might feel is to actually feel a little sorry for both of them (but only a little, since they have done this to themselves!) The last I heard anything about them I had found out that OW was pregnant, and XH didn't know if it was hers or not, and he was calling her his EX. About 3 weeks after that, they showed up at my church (where I went before the M and still go and am VERY involved, and where XH and I attended through entire marriage) together. The church is a good 2 hour drive from where they live. Somehow I get the feeling they didn't attend because they were trying to get right with God. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Fortunately, my family was visiting me that weekend (from IN, I'm in MD) which I know XH and OW didn't expect. The two of them disappeared rather quickly after the service.

That's the last I've heard of them, which was in February. And I'm actually glad they showed up - I had been dreading when they would show up, fearing it would really upset me. And I was pretty sure they would show up eventually, based on some things they had done (like him bringing her to church twice during the affair before I knew he was cheating!) and things they had said. But when they showed up this last time, I laughed. It didn't bother me at all. That, and the quiet that has followed, has helped me quit worrying about it all.

In fact, I kind of look at it this way. If they do get married to each other, at least they're only messing up their own lives, and not inflicting this garbage on any innocent parties. Well, with the exception of her daughter and any future children. The kids are the one reason I would feel upset about it - and infinitely glad that XH and I never had any.

When my xh remarried it was hard. I wondered the same thing as everyone else, how in the world can something that created so much hurt and distruction become a blessed event?

I decided not to waste my energy on it. I wished him well, but it just seems he's taken his issues and brought them into another relationship. What was harder for me was the fact that our girls' were very upset over the whole marriage thing. My oldest cried for a week straight. To this day my younger daughter still says she wishes her dad never married her.

I just don't like that I have to deal with OW and her little comments to my children or should I say child (about something I didn't do right), my oldest refuses to go to her dad's anymore. I've been taking my family to family counseling since 10-03, ever since xh started bringing ow around the girls it's been hell. Their behavior and stress levels blown the roof off the foundation!!!

I recently found out that neither of the OM's children attended his marriage to my XW. Interesting since at least one of them lives in the same city, and the other two are only a 3 hour flight. The wedding was late Saturday afternoon, so the two out of towners could have easlily flown in for the weding and left the next day, or even that evening.

Of course, given what the OM did to their mother ( the affair, lying to marriage counselor about it while he was supposedly trying make the marriage work) I can see why they aren't to excited about him. My kids went but I think I can safely say it wasn't the high point of their week.

My X and OW are set to be married on July 30th. So far the jury is outr on which of his 4 children (grown, youngest is 17) will attend. Youngest says he will go for 5 minutes. 2 others told their father they would attend, but told me they are not and told him they were to get him off their backs. A sad commentary on they way they learned to communicate. Thats they way his parents and him communicated all their lives..just tell them anything to shut them up, and dont ever tell anyone how you really feel about something.

As for me, right now I am just indifferent but I dont know how Ill feel when the time comes. Recently he has been planning this big wedding and at the same time telling me he doesnt have the money for child support and alimony. I just want him out of my life. I too never believed in divorce and did all I could to save the marriage, almost to the point of my death, but now that it is over he is her problem and I know they cant ever be truly happy. My X has never been happy his entire 49 years, he's not going to be happy now.

I am, however the happiest I have ever been in my life. I truly believe that God has blessed me for being so faithful to my long, difficult and abusive marriage. It has been almost 1 year since I ws reunited with an old boyfriend from 32 years ago, I was too young for him at the time but things have certainly turned out so much different that I could see with my earthly vision 4 years ago. God certainly knows what's best and we have to trust Him when we cant see His whole design for us

smiles,
Dawn

My X is at least skipping the church thing this time. They are making it out to be the joke that it is. BBQ and pool party, with probably a Sponge-Bob theme just like his 49th birthday party in Jan.

My X married the OW about 2 weeks after our divorce was final. The OC was born about 2 weeks after the marriage.

I have a thread on this subject on the D/D forum.
countdown to X's wedding

My X is getting married next Saturday (30th). I am a little upset that a couple of the children are going. They dont want to and X has been badgering them to go. I want them to go if they want to go, but not because he is badgering them.

One said the would not attend the wedding but will make an appearance at the reception for a few minutes. I dont know why if they dont attend the wedding because they dont agree with what their father has done and his behavior, why would they attend the party celebrating that boycotted wedding?

I am trying to keep my mouth shut in that area.

It is throwing a wrench into my very busy week however. I am in the middle of trying to move my oldest son in here temporarily as he finished college in May and starts his "real life" (LOL)job in Sept. He needs to save up the next few weeks for apt down payment and will commute until he can move closer.

Because of this we are racing to get the extra bedroom finished upstairs and carpet is coming day of X's wedding. wedding day is fine enough for any kids to be gone and not help but X keeps calling them with this and that BBQ here and there for the weeking leading up to wedding and I really need their help with the major home improvements going on around here.

My X BIL also will be in town and I really want to have him over here for dinner (If he is allowed..my X MIL is very controlling and wether he will make it here remains to be seen. My former MIL is also in the middle of some health problems which will make her even more controlling)

As far as him marring OW..that is not affecting me much at all..one week to go though.

Been down this road!!!! It was quite painful at the time. Just felt like another slap in the face since X married the OP. They are now expecting their THIRD child in as many years together! They are a "good church going family" and devoted to their kids and seemingly to mine (and X's) as well.....

Why should my ex remarrying mean anything to me? She's living with her OM and that's the same thing really. If she marries this immoral [censored], it only proves what a complete fool she is. But he has multiple GF's she doesn't know about. So if she marries him, she can learn for herself the pain of being a BS, sitting at home knowing her H is out making love to another woman and not giving her a second thought. Were I the kind who sought revenge, I could think of none better.