Of course there could be other explanations. The problem to me is that the wife has physically cheated on the coach in the past which is why he established the rules in the first place. He forgave her but these conditions he imposed and she agreed to were the key for his recovery.
The fact that she totally ignored the rules, lied to him about the story and turning off the cellphones is a horrible sign. Clearly she knew what the ramifications would be by doing all of these things. My only conclusions would be either 1 - she thought she could get away with it because she was able to do so in the past; 2 - she thinks the coach is a fool or 3 - she really didn't care what the coach thought because she was sure she could manipulate the situation. Actually now that I look at these points it seems none of them make any sense in a rational sense. I guess the bottom line is that I don't get it. Why would she do such a thing knowing that Coach is way too smart to be hoodwinked. I guess we just have to wait for an update. I wish you luck Coach.

"hoodwinked"

doncha just love this word?

This is like a made up story ..... waiting for the next confusing chapter.....

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Orchid:

"Just trying to look at it from different angles. The one thing a BS does not want t/d is appear like one who 'jumps to conclusions' or appear irrational. You know what a WS can do with ammo like that."

Ever been doing something so fun that you just can't seem 2 set it aside for even a moment 2 make a call you've promised you'd make? I can remember times like that. But I've never had any agreement like coach and his W had in place 2 reassure the other that nothing improper is going on.

Boy, I wish I did. I even wish we could now.

The WS banks on the fact that the BS doesn't WANT 2 believe anything improper is going on, especially if there is. I'm manipulated 2 believe, first, that *I'm* being unreasonable.

Coach is a lot tougher than I am. I admire that. And frankly, if nothing improper occurred, where in all that time did Mrs coach blurt out what DID happen, 2 put his concerns 2 rest?

-ol' 2long

Just what I was thinking. If they had an agreement to 4 calls per day and she broke that agreement AND cell phone was off.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Good morning to all. I’m safely ensconced in my office right now and feeling good to be here. I guess safe is the word I’m looking for. Thanks for all the speculation, but to assume that this is some innocent misunderstanding is just not reality.

First of all, my darling wife lied to me…strait out…in my face if you will…and there’s no way she gets a pass on that. After this mess gets straitened out a bit, I’ll post my marriage covenant. It was an agreement that I wrote for both of us 7 years ago when we agreed to reconcile. It’s my personal blueprint or plan for the process of our reconciliation and has been added to over the years for use by others.

After reading this document maybe you folks will understand a little better why I am so damn angry…even if she didn’t sleep with the sleaze! And let’s not pretty this up, ‘cause that’s what I’m thinking she did! Even worse, (if that’s possible) she and I have had conversations regarding my opinion of the Prof. She knows how I feel about him.

Maybe it’s a guy thing but there are certain men that other men just despise on contact. It’s not rational and it makes no sense but there you are. From the minute the Prof sat down to eat with us, my gut told me that this was not my kind of guy. He looked too good, he spoke in a condescending off hand manner, he had a bogus mustache,…came on like an Anglo-phial,…ordered the wine at my party, and spoke to only the woman at the table. Every time the guy moved, he left a little shiney trail of slime behind him. Adjectives I would use to describe this sh#t heel? Unctuous, pretentious, insincere, self-serving, conceited, …are we getting the picture here? Of course most woman would feel differently. They all seem to like him.

When his name came up in conversation, my wife used to goof on me…laughing at my obvious dislike and explaining that the Prof is a woman’s man, not a man’s man. And that’s why “you” don’t like him. But then she would go on to say that he was really sweet and not confident at all, and that his wife really treated him…”to bad”…had him running in circles and it was very sad, yada, yada, yada.

Now don’t get the idea that we discussed this lump frequently because we didn’t. It was more a case of us getting up dates from Laura about the poor Profs’ marital travails, as he and his wife seemed to be living apart. And I did take his side by the way, in conversations that I had with my wife. I said that I thought it reprehensible of his wife that they had agreed to a plan…that she encouraged him and then backed off on her agreement. That aside, however, it was just conversation…neither of us had any real personal interest in these people…LOL…at least I didn’t!

The other thing that’s really beyond just upsetting is my daughter’s involvement. What the hell is going on when my daughter is involved in a liaison between her mother and another man? I mean this is beyond anything my stomach can take. And again, to assume that Laura is not involved is just not reality. This whole thing stinks!

What was I not suppose to know and why? And how dare they involve themselves in something they both know I would so strongly disapprove of. Laura is well aware of what happened between her mother and I, 7 years ago! And she is not stupid girl! After all her career is in helping others to make sense of their lives…how could she be so insensitive if nothing else?

This whole mess, at the very least, reeks of total disregard, and total disrespect…total! And if that’s not enough, how about dishonesty and stupidity? I am absolutely beside my self. I just don’t know what the outcome will be, worse…much, much worse,…I’m even sure what I want it to be…I don’t even know if I care anymore. I am just so hurt. How could it be that the people in the world that I love so much could hold me to be of so little value? What is it in me that they find so disposable as to be held to be so with out worth?

I am really hurting now. But she will not see me cry. Never again will I allow her to have that on me. I will not explode with anger either; I will not allow my self to be any further demeaned. If it comes to a split, then I will give it all to a third party to deal with. Amazing, how all the old feelings return…just like it all happened yesterday instead of 7 years ago.
Coach

I know you are hurting and I'm sorry.

Susan

coach:

What do you want 2 do?

-ol' 2long

I am looking forward to reading this when you have the time and energy to share.

Sometimes, there is no rationale that works to explain peoples' stupidity.

yuk

What's bothering me right now is Laura's attitude. She is the one about to take marriage vows ... and her attitude about secrecy and surreptitious behavior being 'OK' in a marriage ... is worrisome, to say the least.

I am worried.

Stick close to Jake ... dog-therapy in huge doses.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It would seem like she is wanting to believe her mother's explanation/story of the events. Initially, she couldn't reach her mom and was surprised her dad thought that her mom was in the wine country with 'Donna'.

Coach
I wish I could say your surmises did not make sense, but they do.
Your W words and actions alone raise alarms as does your DD words.

As for you DD have you thought that maybe she was counselling her mum perhaps?? and that was the reason for her words in that context.

Remember if she is a prof cousellor or studying to be one she would NOT discuss anything with you .. at least she may not feel she should or be able to. Not even if you are her dad.
It may not be so of course but perhaps....

As for the rest, I have to say that if it was only a misunderstanding I'd have thought she'd be angrily DEMANDING you listen to what happened and DEMANDING you ring this person & that person to confirm .... though not sure if your w reacts like that or not ... most people do though when such a serious situation is a 'misunderstanding'. JMHO

Sadly I feel your gut feelings on this are correct.

Wish you all the best.

Pep,
As usual your observation is most adroit…to say the least. In fact it’s a little close to the bone if the truth must be told.

This is all just like a story and that’s how I’m telling it. But that’s how I mostly always tell people everything. This is so me. So very much me! It’s how I communicate…it slows me down so I can think and change gears…rather then wait to say what I want to say…precisely as most rational people would.

So here’s another unpalatable little truth about myself. I’m fascinated by how entertaining this must be to others…and I don’t say this with acrimony, not in the least…but rather with understanding. In fact, if anything I’m an active participant…After all, I’m the one providing the voyeuristic opportunity…and yes, I do try to make it entertaining…why? It’s a whole lot less real that way, that’s why.

This way, the whole mess seems to be happening to some one else…except it isn’t…very hard to express this phenomenon. My shrink (I spoke him an hour ago) tells me it’s a self protective kind of mechanism tied directly to my life long emotional problem…my lack of courage to be a part of things…to instead be a witness to them rather then take the chance by being a participant. So different then my wife who is always in the middle of everything. The center of attention.

But this entire situation is so out of the blue. So from out of know where. It’s so mush a “men plan and the God’s laugh.” sitch!…My daughter is getting married in two weeks for heaven sake! Where did this come from all of a sudden?

I don’t do drama…I just don’t! Not well anyway…I talk drama…I witness drama…I comment on drama…but I don’t do it! What I do best is crawl up inside myself and be safe.

Outside of you folks (who know me not really at all), no one else in my life (other then the participants in this mess) knows anything. In fact, this is the first time I’ve ever started a post on this site! I always comment on the lives of others…All of this is so not what or who I am! What the h#ll am I doing here?
Coach

Coach,

I do not post much, but I have read some of your advices to others and have come to admire your intelligence, courage, and wisdom. Thus, I feel the need to add my 2 cents.

There are two things may consider here. First, so far you have only assumptions. True, there are red flags all over the place, especially in the context of the history between the two of you, but still there are only assumptions, although probable ones. Before doing something drastic that may alter and affect your life forever, it may be prudent to ensure that the facts support your conclusions and resolutions. For your actions will not only impact you and your wife, but the rest of your family and friends. For one, you are not clear of Laura's involvement here. She may only be guilty of wanting to believe that her mom did not do any thing wrong and want nothing more than to see her parents together. Just as a BS, at first wants to believe so badly that his or her WS is not having an A, a DD would want to believe the same of his or her parents, even if one of the parents cheated in the past. My point here is that before assuming that Laura is guilty of any wrongdoing, besides wanting to believe the best, ascertain more what her involvment was in this. The idea is to get as much information as possible, even if you can't get all the facts, before making any drastic move. More information is better than less, even if some of what you hear are lies.

Second, whatever the facts may be, as some have intimated above, there is a fine line between standing your ground and being mean. Regardless of what a WS does, I do not believe they deserve to be treated with rudeness or nastily. Easier said than done, I know. But regarless of the outcome, one of the things you want to have at the end is that you kept your dignity.

I do not mean to say that a BS should be a doormat or to not let the WS experiences the consequences of his or her actions. That probably would be counterproductive on many fronts. I am thinking more on the line that if a friend steals from you, that does not justify you stealing from him in return. If some one kills your pet, you should not go try and kill his or her pet also. In the latter case, what you may try to do is get him arrested or sue him in civil court (not so much for retribution, for I don't think that's justified, but to let the person experiences the consequences of his or her actions). Second, you could act to protect yourself so this does not occur again. This would be the prevention throng. Relevant actions would include getting the person arrested (getting the person arrested satisfies both prongs) and, say for instance, creating a fence so your pet does not live your house anymore. The point here is that a BS is entitled and should let the BS experience the consequences of his and her actions and should take measures to protect him or herself. There is a fine line, however, between protection one's self and not let the WS cake eat, and being mean. I am not sure if you have cross that line and it is not my position to judge, but I thought you may want to keep this in mind.

I am very sorry you are experiencing this right now. I have the upmost respect for you, and will keep you in my prayers.

Coach, as Squid and I move inexorably from affair-crisis through recovery destination: recovered I find myself reassessing a lot of stuff.

Amongst the many things I did over the recent period of which I am proud, setting my own personal boundaries stands tall.

I hadn;t considered a new constitution of marriage between Squid and I but that would be a very very good idea. It would help Squid feel safe knowing in writing my boundaries other than my just 'saying' them occasionally. She could also outline her boundaries.

But I have become so 'protected' by these boundaries just the deliberate violation of them by Squid would leave me able to call it all off.

So Coach, what I'm saying is that even if your DW hasn't been playing around with this professor roue, her flagrant violation of your declared and agreed boundary for regular communication is enough to make this a red card offense IMO.

I thank you for inspiring me over time but particularly in your behaviour here.

All blessings coach.

(((((((((coach)))))))))

I wish you well.
You are in my prayers

Coach,

I just wanted to tell you how much I empathize with your current feelings. This is pretty much what happened to me five years after D-Day 1 and for the two months before D-Day 2.

I understand how it feels so totally unreal. I could not believe it was happening yet again. It was like the intervening years were a dream and I just woke up the day after D-Day after all.

I made so many excuses for her and tried on so many ill fitting alternative explanations. I drove myself crazy for those two months. But, of course, in the end it was exactly what it looked like but couldn't face.

She flagrantly violated agreed upon boundaries, agreed to with our MC present as witness even. New lies, illogical stories, and her anger (W has always subscribed to the best defense is a good offense school of conduct) was too much to process all at once.

I kept trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. But nothing held together, including me. I was falling apart and finally realized I needed to get out. It wasn’t until I told her I wanted out that she admitted the truth. And even then, it was only the first tiny piece of it in a long and messy time.

The way we are treated by the ones we love. Sheeesh. It will never make sense to me.

Good luck Coach, I wish all the best for you.

This whole situation breaks my heart.

I think that this shows that good...... no great boundaries are useless if they are respected unilaterally. Here we have a very strong person that has demonstrated virtually ALL of the qualities that we all look for in a mate( and strive for personally), that is thrown back into this absolute insanity.

Sadly it seems that in most cases the ONLY response to boundary crossing that is truly respected is the one issued by your local judge on your divorce decree.

So sorry, coach. Your story has hit me like a kick to the groin. I wonder how many other MB'ers feel the same way about their situation?

Coach, I've always counted on your down to earth posts but now I'm worried about you! Withdrawal may "feel" safe but can result in even more problems down the road. When are you planning to talk with your wife?

Radical Honesty works BOTH ways...you know that your boundaries have been violated, you NEED to express this but at the same time you have to be a "listener" (no matter what the subject matter) as well. Facts are facts, and for the last few days you have been operating on nothing but pure asssumption as to what she was actually doing. You could be right or you could be wrong. Violation of boundaries is serious but automatically assuming the boundaries have been violated in the MOST extreme way is a form of mental torture.

I can't say I don't understand your thought pattern because the Prof sounds like a problem guy but hey, you and your wife need to communicate. Don't drag this out any longer than you have to, for your own sake. I wish you the very best, don't forget to be take care of your physical health (eat right, try to get some rest!) right now ok? KB

This is absolutely correct. Like my "unenforceable" NC email.

I can make rules and regulations up the wazoo, but it is futile if she's not willing 2 recommit. ...meaning, it may ALSO be useless even if she IS willing (i.e., only pretending 2 be willing)


Here's one.

-ol' 2long

Hi, Coach.

Please consider sending your wife an email. Ask her to write the factual details of the encounter without any commentary as to her frame of mind or any other emotion. Just the facts, and send it to you in email.

Get the supposed 'facts' and start dealing with it. You know that the facts are almost always less bad than what we imagine.

Once you start to digest the facts, you can determine what your response will be, and the level of complicity with which your daughter was engaged in the drama.

If it turns out that your daughter played a significant part, you might want to consider apprising her fiance of her actions.

Don't beat yourself up over not being the MB superhero. This is damn hard stuff to deal with - for ANYONE, no matter how well prepared you are. It is okay to be human, Coach.

God bless,
Gimble