Oh Coach - you are going to need one serious vacation after all this is sorted out.

I don't believe your wife, and even if she didn't sleep with the prof, what she did was cruel:

Seriously twisted.

Folks, maybe I’m not being fair to WW by not posting the entire conversation…but it’s tedious to sit here and give it all back…the essentials are really what’s important here so being logical which is what I am all about after all…you all have to know that I’ve added up time and space then multiplied by opportunity and have come up with a factor of one! One opportunity for her to have been with him…unless every one is lying and he spent the weekend in SF with my wife…and Laura isn’t talking…possible but given her level participation, I think not. Let’s remember that it was Laura who effectively blew the whistle by calling me to ask if I had spoken to her mother that fateful night that she didn’t return!

Could the Prof have been in NY at the same time as my WW during the last 6 months? Maybe but doubtful. His wife says no…and she the one that pays the credit card bills! So that leaves me with the one opportunity they had for sex. So lets say she did screw him! It would have to have been that afternoon or during the day because I kind of ruined the mood that evening…unless of course my WW has a cooler head then even I give her credit for!

So here’s what I’m left with to think about…in no particular order except how my thoughts come up:
1. Maybe she did, maybe she didn’t…(screw the Prof) If she did, she will die with this lie before ever telling me the truth, now so I guess I’ll never know…because I wouldn’t believe anything that scrum bag the Prof had to say any way.
2. That leaves me with an EA for 6 months that goes beyond what an EA is about. This is not some ones inadvertent slide into infamy…this was head first, willful in your face cheating! She makes no bones about what she did being wrong, and knowing it was wrong…while she was doing it and maybe even enjoying it more because was wrong!
3. My wife doesn’t want a divorce. If she did, right now is her shot to get it done with no further fall out from the kids…she’s already taking the heat…so now is her shot to get herself free with no further grief from them. After all, she can play repentant one to a mean unforgiving Dad (that being me) and still come out of this looking pretty good…she is after all the Mother of these children…no matter what…she’s the Mom! That buys her big time love for ever no matter what. And that’s just the way it is…and in truth…the way it should be! She is, before anything else that she may be…their mother…and there can never be any replacement for her…never!
4. She is willing to do anything I ask to get this deal made…
5. I cannot trust her…and I will never be able to trust her. Further I will never be able to totally believe a word she says. She is a cheat and a lyre and will always be a cheat and a lyre. Worse yet, she shows no remorse for the act ever…only for getting caught and how it “hurts” me.
6. I love her, I will always love her.
7. I can forgive her…I will do so and probably have done so already…but I’ll never… not ever forget what she’s done.
8. This leads me back to number 4…so she will do anything I ask to slink through this mess and come out still married…
9. I don’t really want to divorce her.
10. if I don’t divorce her, she will do it or something like it again. That’s just her MO. No matter what she may promise she will eventually get the fever…
11. Does any of this mean that she loves me less? Did she love me less while she was having it on with the Prof? I guess she defines love differently then the rest of us…because I think if it were required, she would give up her body parts so that I could live. I mean her heart, liver or kidney, LOL…And yes, she would have cut her arm…deep…after she bit me…as if that would have proven anything. Crazy?
12. So if I gave her one more chance what message would I be sending her? There is no deterrent…because there is no penalty! So what would I be saying other then, it’s OK go do it again.
13. So should I just cut my losses now and look for some one else? Do I want to?
14. Here’s where she is right now…before I will let her come with me to this wedding as a couple.
15. a non contact letter to the Prof, with a cc to Laura, his daughter and is wife.
16. Two separate letters, one to Laura and the other to his daughter…explaining what she and the Prof did and why it was all such a heinous lie.
17. A letter of apology to the Prof’s wife.
18. A letter of apology to our children to be read to them at the wedding (in private of course)
19. She writes the letters,…I edit them, and mail them.
20. she is in no contact with this sleaze for ever more…his daughter as well and any friends that participated…and she better fess up cause if I find out later then she is still lying all bets are off…and she is going to have to swear to all this…to the children’s faces.

So I already put the D on hold, implemented the above but have made no firm commitment to stay…yet, she’s not argued about any of it…yet! So what do you’all think? Mostly you Pep…I really need to her from you on this…I mean I love all you folks…but this is a Pep question…she will tell me with no sentiment where my thinking is faulty. You guys know what I mean…but hey…I’m interested in all input…call me stupid if that’s what you think…whatever…I’m feeling stupid even considering what I’m thinking…so have no mercy! LOL
Coach

Coach,

Why oh why would you want to stay with someone so cruel. Let's say it was just an EA - she new damn well that it was wrong, that she shouldn't have gone down that road. I doubt that this was innocent flirting. I am sure she knows that an EA is just as damaging as a PA - especially after dealing with a PA seven years ago.

Cruel, I keep saying that but it's the only word that comes to mind with her.

I agree with pep (as usual) keep your mouth shut until after the wedding and proceed with the D papers. I mean, if you stay with her you risk going through this AGAIN in the future. Do you really want to repeat that?

It isn't Pep's answer you need 2 be concerned about, coach. It's if she DOESN'T answer that you need 2 be concerned! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Lemme think about it ....

for now ... hold your cards tight against your vest

your beloved plays a superior game of poker .... make her show her cards before you reveal your hand

Unfortunately ... I am full of mercy for you in this situation ....

Have you ever seen the movie Blue Sky ... with Jessica Lange and Tommy Lee Jones? Your wife reminds me of the Jessica Lange character...... dangerously and wildly passionate. Can you resist her Coach? Can you? Are you drawn to her like a moth to the flame?
.... wondering how you can come out of this without more wounding ....

take care.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

"2. That leaves me with an EA for 6 months that goes beyond what an EA is about. This is not some ones inadvertent slide into infamy…this was head first, willful in your face cheating! She makes no bones about what she did being wrong, and knowing it was wrong…while she was doing it and maybe even enjoying it more because was wrong!"

After a sworn and signed covenant? I don't know, Coach. It would seem that you'd be inviting yet another sequel. I only know if it were me, I'd put on an appearance for the wedding, go through the motions for your daughter, and then file for D. Surely your kids will understand?

Life is simply too short!

Best wishes,
SD

I'm glad I'm not Pep!

I won't say a word.

Nosirreee.

Not a word.

No.

Not me.

I'm not Pep!

I'm glad I'm not Pep.

...

.
.
.

Coach,

Your story is the literary story of ageless romance. The hysterical, arrogant, selfish,lying, unfaithful, extroverted adulteress.

And the man, who despite knowing her every nuance, can't and won't live without her.

You are sincerely in my prayers Coach.

You will need them more than heaven can imagine.

coach,

that was some rollercoaster.
If you want to stay, stay, but you'll have to accept the fact that she will more than likely, cheat in the future, and then what? Well... you'll have to let her and let it roll off your back, or go through this drama over and over again untill one of you dies.

Some people are affraid of change, and that is completely normal, they are affraid of leaving someone they have been with for most of their lives. They are scared of letting go if that means that they will end up alone.

Can you be alone? Can you live with a serial WS who isn't changing her path?

All that happened, how you reacted, was very good, and you handled the pressure of having all your kids call you, and change their attitudes (understandably), like they did, very very well, believe me, I have seen things like that happen and you did great compared to most people.

Don't feel like a coward, you were not, like Pep said, keep your cards tight upon your chest, don't let your guard down, and give yourself the time to decide where, when, and how you want to move forward.

Cymanca:

As usual, your post is right on.

I liken the bigman (Coach) taking back his wife after all of this incredible $hit to someone joining the witness protection program. He gets to stay alive and protected from the mob (aka staying married to his wife that he obviously cannot live without) but for the rest of his life he will have to be looking over his shoulder for the next "hit".

May God grant him the peace and serenity to live like that.

LM

Coach,

YOur "life trials" have been a real eye-opener...I truly see how that, should my STBXW ever desire to reconcile, I don't think I can do it.

I see your story as what mine would be if I ever took STBXW back.

My indifference toward her grows...the utter lack of respect she gave me is what I see your unrepentant WW giving you and I CANNOT and WILL NOT have that in my life.

There really are women out there that WON'T cheat...I (and hopefully you) have to find them.

Life is TOO short to be waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Have a great time at the wedding...REALLY think about finding a new life WITHOUT WW...

"fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me".

I'm pulling for you...no matter what you decide,

WNB

Dear coach!

First I will give a statement of support to you in your present mess. I pray for you and your family.

Your situation is at the best difficult. You know the benefits of this M and the investments you have put into it.
On the other hand you know the statistics on the repeated betrayers and the likely future outcome with them in a M. Like you write it is most possible that she feels entitled to have extra martial relationships as long as she can keep them secret so they will not hurt you. As if a secret relationship would not hurt you even if you didn’t know!

I will not give you any advice to this decision. Some pain will be a certain result of every option open to you. I think you can not avoid it anyhow. May God give you wisdom!

Having read your story I think there are some questions left unanswered yet. Or perhaps there was not room and time to write all she said?

1 How did she explain the deliberate lying to you?
2 Where had she been the last couple of days?
3 How did she explain the secret relationship that had been going on for months?
4 How does she think her behaviour should be considered in the light of your covenant, paragraph for paragraph?
5 Given the above, what reason would she give for you to choose to give her yet another chance?


A last point: Do your very best to make Laura’s wedding as happy as possible. That means that you yourself must be happy then as well! Take command of your thoughts and direct them to focus on the positive! SEE and ENJOY all that is worth to see enjoy in such a day. Make positive memories. This day has the potential to be full of triggers to your own M and the betrayal you have experienced. Do not give them room in your thoughts and hart. That day you leave the sadness back home!

Folks, a couple of things,

First of all, AD you’re a ****! Phewww, glad I got that out of the way. LOL You should be so lucky…as to be Pep that is…she at least has a loyal H LOL…you and me? What we got? I’d tell you what we got but I’m already driving the poor monitors crazy with this post…LOL…look how much they have to read to put all those little xxxs in place!? Anyway, thanks for you expert advice…not! You da best.

2long, your vote don’t count…that is if you had voted!…What’s this about? Instead thoughtful answers you’re asking me…but I was asking you…da…2long…it’s not July 4th yet! Earth to 2long!...Bro you have to start thinking more clearly…by the way, if you’re going to go out there to play janitor…you at least ought to make her lie to you about something you want to hear! Mine at least is begging and pleading and swearing “to never do it again;” the cheating, lying little XXXXXXX! (See, I beat the monitor to it!) Yours won’t even give up a lie! And 2long…my friend…(and I’m serious about this now so listen to me…) do not make the mistake of crediting her with integrity on this issue…this ain’t about her being honest with you…this is about her telling you to your face…in your face I you will…in her own inimical little fashion, that she is going to stay the course…her course…her way…and **** you! She’s betting that you will too…stay your typical course! Going out there July 4th indeed! Bad move my friend…very bad move. You are blinking first!

Guys, try not to repeat back to me the obvious. I know the chances are better then good that the little ***** will cheat again…didn’t I say so? But you guys are thinking she is a serial tramp and this is not who she is…honest. This is not some sleazy piece of ***! This is a very bright, articulate, assertive and passionate woman…who gets bored (not with me but with life in general) and so she creates drama. This isn’t about love or sex…or a lack either with or for me…or about her falling in love with some low life…this is about drama…she does love me…it’s just not the way I want it to be but…this is who she has become…or maybe has always been…and you can’t [censored] about a cat being a cat instead of a dog!

And make no mistake about her taking me for a patsy or fool…proving to her the opposite is not my challenge…my challenge is…IF….IF…IF…I decide to give this one more go round…can I control my viperish, nasty, tongue and attitude? Because I am some sarcastic SOB when you get me started. And she has pissed me off big time. Worse yet, even thinking about staying with her is making me crazy…I don’t do these kinds of compromises in my life…not these kinds. So if I decide to do the unthinkable…I am going to need to make a serious attitude adjustment. No sense doing this and not doing it right…

Pep,…no never did see Blue Sky. Would my feminine side gush? LOL Will have to give this a “look-see” and get some ideas as to how the characters match up. But you’re probably right…you and JL…Orchid…Mel…you guys are all mighty heavy on my shoulder…mighty heavy! But Pep…this is driving me nuts as it is. I’ll control everything till the wedding is over…so don’t worry ‘bout that…I’m am totally cool now…even if my rather acerbic tendency toward communication becoming more acute by the second… LOL…(I love to read my own BS! LMAO…acerbic tendency my ***…I’m acting like a ****! That’s what I’m acting like!)

Look, the worst mistake in the world is for people to judge her…my darling WW, as if she is an easy make…no guy other then myself (I believe) has ever called the tune with her (some job I’m doing…right?) This wasn’t the Prof’s gig! This was my WW having her own way and amusing herself. He was meat! Just meat. Get it? And so it was with her first nasty little incursion onto adultery. That guy, my very much ex best friend…was just a tool as well…SO…She needs to understand that she has done some real bad things here! Even if our marriage survives…again…her first toy lost his wife and family and the Prof is also about to loose his meal ticket. She is screwing with peoples lives here and she needs to understand that. This is very troubling to me…VERY!

More later.
Coach

Blue Sky is a mediocre film, but Ms Lange won best actress for her portrayal of a woman who may resemble your wife.

Here's my 'plan' thus far .....

you be reserved and quiet so you can make accurate observations

this means shut the hayul up .... can you do that?

I am certain you do not need to decide anything right now ... nothing except what shoes to wear to the wedding

so until after the wedding, I am going to practice what I am advising for you ... and I am going to simply observe and reserve my opinion until ~after~ the weddding

no 'rush to judgement' is necessary

take your time

slow down



how's that sound to ya?

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

OK Pep...but what shoes do I wear? And do i really have to keep my mouth shut? No acerbic wit? Or nothing? P-L-E-A-S-E...what will people think? And did you see all those *****yikes I have some bad mouth! But I wasn't all that bad till last weekend. I'm going shopping...gona by myself new shoes! LOL Not buying my WW nothing!
Coach

Dear Coach,

My H had a 4 yr A from '94 to '98. We had several false recoveries within that time. He ended the A after having moved in with the OW and her 3 kids for a little over month. She had just received her D from her wealthy H.

In 2000 my H befriended another MW while working on one of our investment properties. I found him there one afternoon. They were talking, he happened to be in the bathroom when I came to the door and it took her a long time to open the door...they were supposedly 'just friends'. He ended it right there. The house in her neighborhood sold...I forgot about it.

2 yrs later, she called our office and asked for his cell phone #. (I found out after that she had just separated from her H...she thought he was gay...yeah right. That was her 3rd M) I gave the number thinking it was a former customer. I didn't know her name. That started the secret EA. I found out 8 months later through that gut feeling, his 'distance', inconsistencies, not being answering his cell phone, then confirmed, yet again, with cell phone records. He initially denied until I had the proof. I felt a fool again.

He obviously hadn't learned about bounderies. He insists to this day that it 'only' went PA 2x's. We spent 3 weeks in Europe during the 7th month of the EA. He got angry at me the last day in Italy over driving. It was really stupid. In hindsight he was giving himself an excuse to go be with her again.

Just before the actual D-day I had found MB and read about plan A and B. I thought I was at fault because he was blaming me and criticizing me in my areas of weakness.

I had a decision to make. Initially, I told him, matter of factly, that we would D, we'd split all assets (accept a recent inheritance of mine) 50/50, after all, we live in FL...a studid no fault state. Our kids are grown. He could go have her if that is what he wanted. We would both move on. I started to imagine selling our house and moving to Calif. to work with my sister and H.

I (then we) went to talk to a priest, who recommended a Rational Emotive Therapist who was also a parisioner. He met with me, him, then us a few times. He explained commitment to him. He got us to read the 3 Minute Therapist to get us to understand the concepts he was trying to teach us, about how we could change how we react and make decisions.

I bought SAA and we both read it. A bit of a light went on and he began to have sincere remorse and wanted to stay married. He went NC...verbally...not by letter. We went to the MB Weekend Seminar a couple of months later.

I chose to stay married and we have recovered. We are really doing great and he really has done it all right...he was sincerely repentant. Anything less and it wouldn't have worked. We worked through 80% of the MB followup program and will probably finish the rest eventually.

I need to get going..this is long enough anyway.
I understand if you choose to reconcile. Just make sure she gets it this time.

Hey Coach,

Thanks ??? for noticing me. Go easy on 2Long. He goes easy on everybody else.

All I can say is to make the observation that if your kids hadn't come through for you, I could see you going the other way with this. 4 out 5 is doing pretty well - and the 5th might be back in your corner in the long run. When you are doing something incredibly difficult, it sure helps to have the support of (most of) the people you love.

Now, when I said "I'm glad I'm not Pep", I was just noting that you seemed to put her on the spot - as if she was going to make the decision for you. I can see that's not true. You are deciding.

Your Wife: Oh yes! The contrite sinner is a thing to behold! I've seen such a thing too. I have (almost) no resistance to it. If my w is begging and promising, it's really all I can ask. She can't bring all the future into the present and pre-make all the future decisions. She can't, no matter if she wants to, keep herself from making future mistakes, or future mischief. All you 've got is NOW and now she's exactly where you would want her to be - and there is nothing more you could ask.

I know you're not a religeous man, but ... well, we are commanded to forgive when "our brother" asks for fogiveness - 7 times 70 times, sez the good book. Goes for wives too. Seems a foolish thing to do, but all the best things in life seem foolish sometimes. That's what makes them so amazing. They grow your heart. Good luck to you, Coach, you big-hearted man!

-AD

Hey Coach,

Glad to see you're feeling better and calmer. Also glad to hear that you will be going to the wedding. Without judging your ww, her choice of affair partners seems to be particularly destructive. This seems to suggest that you are correct in saying she does it for the drama, in that having affairs with friends of the family is definately going to cause more drama then with strangers.

So I understand from your last couple of posts that you are now delaying haveing your wife served for the moment. This is probably a good thing, however, I hope that you are doing this for your own sake and nobody elses. You stated earlier that one of your traits that most annoys your wife is the fact that you like to do things in your own time (it also annoys everybody who waited 2 days for your update!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />). This is an excellent trait, and I hope you continue to exercise it. After lurking here for the better part of two years and reading your advise to others I know that you generally approach these issues with a calm, realistic, sensitive, methodical, honest, and well though out point of view. Thats why your so popular here and thats why any BS who receives advice from you can consider him/herself very lucky. Although I know it is almost impossible, please try to detach yourself slightly so you can approach your situation from the same point of view. Obviously your emotions are running amok, and I perceive a few of your actions, such as filing the papers and then delaying them a few days later, to be knee-jerk reactions IMHO.

Correct me if I'm wrong and hang in there bro.

AD...forgiving her is not the problem...it has never been the problem...it will never be the problem...she wants to be forgiven so in that it's mine to give...i give it with joy and pleasure...

allowing her back into my life in a way that will again leave me open to her tendency to hurt me is a bit frightening to me however. being civil, polite and courteous is a problem...for the moment...but only forth moment...

as Pep says, no need to decide nothin' right now. as i have often advised others, time is the BS friend. watch and wait, wait and watch...keep my big mouth shut...and just listen and learn...
Coach

PS. maybe i should bug all the telephones in the hotel we're at! LOL talk about entertainment...but i have to tell you folks...i am a very private person and one of the things that bug me most about this sitch is the potential for us to end up being cocktail conversation!

coach:

You really have 3 choices here (as we all do, when our marriages are on the rocks):

Number A: You can continue 2 live with her the way things are, while trying 2 improve things from your end (changing your behaviors, perspectives, living by example).

Letter 2: You can continue 2 live with her the way things are, and simply "settle" for the love and measured honesty she chooses 2 dole out 2 you.

Number C: You can choose not 2 live like this any longer and leave.


Simple, huh?

-ol' 2long