Friends

I have never understood the "personal relationship" a Christian is supposed to have with Jesus.

I am a Christian, adult baptised and a praying, God fearing man.

I pray in hope not certainty of a reply however. God has helped me through crises and happy times, but I have not ever heard the 'still small voice' unmistakeably.

I've never met anyone who could explain to me how a genuine "whassup God ?" " aw nothin' much, how 'bout you, mortal ?" communication link works.

Seriously, I ACHE to have that level of confidence in my faith, but don't see how its achieved nor an example of a real "personal relationship" with Jesus.

As I understand James Randi has a million bucks up for anyone who can demonstrate a personal relationship with Jesus to his satisfaction.

Can you help me define my aspiration by describing what that relationship is like and how its achieved ?

Thanks

I know how you feel Bob. I want it but just don't know how to achieve it. And I do feel troubled about heaven being so exclusive. TT

Wow!! Didnt ask for much, huh? That is a major discussion. So, let me just start it going and we can see where it takes us. Plus some others like ForeverHers can jump in also.

What is the relationship like? Hhmmmmm. First off, if you ask any two Christians that have a personal relationship with Him, you will get some very key similarities in what they say about Jesus. But you will also get some differences. Let me use an example. My father had 5 sons. When my Dad died in 1996, we all got together and we were just talking about him, and things that had happened and/or things he had said or done. The intereting thing was that we could all recall many similarities. But, we also were able to bring some things to the table that the others hadnt seen or witnessed. I learned from my brothers (and others) that week many new sides to my Dad. Sides I never knew about. Where they inconsistent with what I did know? Nope. But I realized then that my relationship with him was different than any other person he related with.

So, while basic similarities are there, a personal relationship with Jesus will also be unique to you and Him. No one will ever know Jesus exactly the way I know Him. I hope I have been clear here about that.

Now, if you look to Jesus disciples, how did He relate to them? Of course, He had a personal relationship with all of them. But if you noticed, He handled and interacted wit heach one of them very differently. They were different people, different relationships. Some were held very close to Jesus. Not because He loved them more...but because these guys liked to get in trouble and Jesus wanted to keep an eye on them. When Jesus looked Judas in the eye and told him to go on and do what he had planned to do (betray Jesus), that interaction, that relationship was very unique.

You see, whether he is happy with us or not happy with us...we as Christians still have a relationship with Him.

Now, how do you hear that small, clear voice? For you, I dont know. Remember, each of us are unique and He will respond to us uniquely.

For me, for the longest time, He spoke to me thru my wife. My relationship was not as close and as intimate as it is now. Nor was it as intimate as hers was with Him. When you spoke about Him, tears would well up in her eyes. She was VERY close to him. I had a more father-son relationship with Him. Not really intimate. But I followed Him and I listened. I prayed, and I searched Scripture for the answers. Sometimes, He would lead me to the answer there. But most of the time, He would speak thru my wife. I would talk to Him, ask Him questions. And invariably within a very short period of time. My wife would come to me and say something that I knew was the answer.

Since D-Day? Jesus no longer speaks to me thru my wife. She is still lost, still detached from Him. So, how do I hear Him now. An interesting thing has happened because of my wife's affair. While He used to speak to me predominately thru my wife, I have found that the affair drove me straight to my knees. I had to go directly to Him. No longer content to have me "phone it in," Jesus used this horrible time to get me to come directly to Him. He had put me in a situation where I had no other choice.

And so now, I hear Him constantly. My wife and I had a little argument Saturday morning. Nothing major, but I was still a little peeved when I got to church Sunday morning. So, I am sitting there praying, waiting for the sermon to begin. And I am asking Jesus how I should handle this. I then sit down and the pastor begins to speak. Guess what he speaks to? EXACTL the question I was asking. And guess what? While I was praying "Lord, what do I do about my wife in this situation..." the message came back "Mortarman, YOU are the problem here. This, this, that and that are the issues you have that brought on the problem with your wife." And it came almost verbatim out of the sermon. It used to almost scare me the way that happened. Now I absolutely count on it. Of course, my wife was wrong about several things we argued about. But my wife wasnt the one praying to Him. I was...and He gave me the answer.

It goes deeper than the Q&A also. I am absolutely amazed at the way the Lord works. I walk thru the day now and jus see His hand moving. And while awe inspiring, it is also comforting.

You see, the one way to know He is moving in your life, is to look backwards for a moment. Backwards from where He brought you. When you look back, as a Christian, you can absolutely see Him working. It is that look backward that gives me confidence when I go forward.

I end most of my posts with "In His arms." That more than anything describes my relationship with Him. You ever seen that Christian painting that has a man holding a hammer in one hand, a spike in the other...and Jesus behind him bleeding, and holding him up as he slumps in Jesus arms. That is me. That is where I remain. I do not look down on others because I was the one that put Him up there. I am the one that daily sins and makes mistakes. And everyone of those put Him on that Cross. I realize that I sometimes rebel against Him. And realize that in the end, I just collapse from sheer exhaustion of trying to get my own way.

So, I now just want to surrender. I just slump in His arms. I have Him carry me. And because of the past, because of me seeing the answers to my prayers, I know as I move forward, today's prayers will be answered....

And on James Randi...I doubt he will ever have to pay out. Why? Because you do not test God that way. God has revealed Himself. He is there to see. Mr. Randi would most likely not accept Jesus if He showed up in his living room tonight.


Okay, there's a start. I guess we can get this discussion going and see where it takes us. Thanks again for the great question.

TT, I have had the same concerns. But, you have to take this concern to its logical end. If there is a heaven (and we will assume for this discussion there is), then who gets in? Everyone?

If everyone gets in, then it does not matter how we live our life, does it? We can be adulterous murderers and we will have heaven waiting for us.

Or is there some criteria? If there is a criteria, then God has discriminated. He has made heaven exclusive. He has set a standard.

You see, it is either open to everyone, or there are criteria about who gets in. These are the only two options.

Now, with that criteria, many people say "Well, if a person lives a good life, but doesnt accept Christ, why do they not go to heaven?" Well, Jesus told us that there was only one way to heaven. He didnt say it was based on something out of your control, like who your parents are or where you live. He said that it was your decision, your choice.

You see, hell is actually a form of love. "What?" I can hear you screaming now. But it is. How so? Well, if God allowed everyone in, He would be unholy because there would be no justice. And if He denied us our choice to love Him or not, then He would be a tyrant.

Hell is chosen, just as heaven is chosen. Those that go to hell chose to go there. There is a heaven and God is there. He set the criteria (as I said above, unless everyone goes to heaven, then there is criteria). If we chose not to want that heaven, then we have chosen hell.

I have two brothers who are unsaved. One has a Buddhist wife. They are very adament about not thinking that heaven is exclusive. I love my brother and sister-in-law. They are very good people. But I have no doubt that if they died today, I would not spend eternity with them. And that saddens me greatly.

Heaven is a choice. Hell is a choice. That choice is given to us because Jesus loves all of us. And He will respect our decision, even though it hurts Him to be rejected and to have some people prefer hell than His love.

In His arms.

MM, heres a strange thing :

I have been slow to post up my full witness regarding what I believe to be God's action in my situation since d-day in case I got it wrong and misrepresent God AND in case it demotivates others who do not have such obvious and direct intervention as I believed I recieved.

A person with a more personal relationship with Jesus would KNOW how to represent Him.

I take prayer walks with my dog most days through a very old park in which we live. I have wept and sung with only my dog and my God to hear in the ruins of an old Cluniac priory that sits amidst the park.

I had no doubt when my prayers have been no more than helpless existential moans that God was listening and comforting me. And in truth almost every prayer has been answered wonderfully. Some quite specific things that requires very special circumstances to come about.

Yet CERTAINTY evades me. That last shred of confidence is just beyond my grasp.

I may yet post up my full witness over this period as its amazing even to me now I come to read it, but I am still unsure of it.

Its hard stuff. But thanks MM. It helps me.

TT, I am puzzled at your reasoning here. How can a place that is open to everyone be called "exclusive?" Heaven is open to everyone who wants to go there. That is hardly "exclusive."

Heaven is the presence of God. God will not drag anyone into heaven, to be with Him, at the point of a gun. If he did, heaven would be hell.

Some people choose him, some reject him. He gives us the free will to make that choice. There is nothing "exclusive" about a place that is open to everyone who chooses to go.

So, do tell. Dont worry about all of that how it affects others. Most that do not want to accept it, will just hurumph and move off in blindness anyway. So, tell us about what He has revealed. I do this all of the time...I check the revelations I get against Scripture and with fellow Christians to be sure it is Him talking, and not Satan.

Wonderful. So you have seen His handiwork. That is a start.

Guess what? That last shred of certainty is beyond all of our grasps until we get to Heaven. Let me give you a bit of Scripture:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' "
Gen 3:4 The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
Gen 3:5 "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Since the beginning, it has been like this. That doubt is placed in you by Satan. Look, Adam and Eve had been in God's presence and had seen Him directly just that day. And by this point, Satan had them doubting God's word, God's love. This is man's plight. This is the battle. This is the major point we have to overcome.

If you think I dont have doubts, you would be mistaken. There have been days where I have doubted He is working. Days where I even doubted that He existed. That is why I said, stand back. Look back. Read Scripture. Bring your thoughts and concerns before fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. All of that will help you see clearly. If Adam and Eve had done this, they would have realized very quickly that they were being lied to. They knew God. They knew He loved them. They knew that what Satan was saying wasnt true. But they had doubt in that instant acted upon it instead of trusting the Lord based on their history with Him.

Another quick example. I have two sons. My oldest, I used to carry around every where. At an early age, I had thrown him in the air a lot. As he got older, he would ask me to throw him i nthe air and catch him. He loved it. He trusted me to catch him.

My younger son, for some reason, I didnt start trying to do the same thing with him until he was almost two years old. I picked him up one day and as I began to lift him in order to toss him in the air, he grabbed onto me with a death grip. Why? Why did his older brother trust me, but he did not? Because his older brother had a history with me. A history where I never dropped him.


Would love to hear it. Like I said, I know Jesus. But there is a lot I dont know about Him. By listening to how He is working in other's lives, I learn more about Him. I hunger for that!! So, post away!!

In His arms.

Good question Bob.

I have a very personal relationship with God, and I "hear" in the way that you are wanting to hear. Unfortunately, I don't always listen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

First the background, so you know where I am coming from. Read the part of the NT where John the Baptist is talking about baptizing the people with water, but one will follow who will baptize with fire. John is talking about Jesus and the fire baptism is the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Jesus also makes the promise that "a comforter" will be sent after his ascension. Again referring to the Holy Spirit. To me, this Spirit dwells within me, which is what I mean when I say that I am a "Spirit Filled Christian." I have gone into this in much more detail on another thread. Scripture references and all. I don't know if you were posting then, or not. Here is a link. Spirit Thread

So what do I mean when I say "Spirit Filled." You can tell by the fruits. Someone who is in tune with the Spirit will walk in the Fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self-control, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness. Those things will be present in greater measure than "normal." And bear in mind, I goof, and the Spirit let's me know. In addition, someone STRONGLY walking in the Spirit will exhibit the Gifts of the Spirit, which are different than the Fruits. They include things like prophesying, discernment of spirits, healing, etc. I myself have at one time or another manifested some of these. But they don't come easy. You really have to be tight with God. Sometimes I am, sometimes I turn away. I haven't been able to figure out if he is "leaving" me when I turn or that there is such general background "world" noise that I no longer hear. The point is, I know when I have turned, because I don't feel the presence as strongly.

But what does it FEEL like? How do you know? I think that depends on two things, your desperation and your faith. And strangely they are linked. This is not Scripturally based, this is my observations from knowing people who have become Spirit filled. I find that people "raised in church" have a harder time with the infilling. I think because they are around it, and don't notice the difference. It is subtle to them. Like falling asleep in front of the telly. Kind of creeps up on you. But when they are walking out the fruits STRONGLY, it is a good sign they have it. Proof comes with the gifts.

Others, who are in a desperate, dark place when they believe and are filled, have more of a thunderclap experience. They know what darkness in the soul feels like, thus the contrast of light in the soul is strong. They are usually ebullient about it, and desperate to share the experience. Have trouble putting it into words. It usually accompanies a pretty significant behavioral change, from bad to good. "As if by magic" people remark on the change.

The purpose of the whole deal is knowing Gods will. Myself, or MortarMan, or ForeverHers tells you something Christian. You must decide if it is true or not. (And I am not saying that we all get to interpret the Bible as we see fit). Read 1 John. It is dangerous to your soul to heed the words of a false prophet. And I MAY be one, how do you know? Well, under the assumption that I tell you something that is new to you, I am assuming you don't know it. What do you do? Look it up in the Bible. Which is the Word of God. What if it disagrees with what I said? Well, then it is a no-brainer. But what if it SLIGHTLY disagrees? You begin to question YOURSELF. "Am I reading this right? Or does NCWalker have it right and I should just go with what he says?" See the danger? When you are Spirit Filled, the Comforter will "let you know." He will be the 2nd witness, with the actual scripture being the first. And Biblically, when two are united, the matter is settled and a three-fold cord is not easily broken. Got it? It is kind of like a built in truth-o-meter. When you are strongly walking.

What does it feel like? Sometimes it is peaceful. Sometimes it is excitement, like how you feel seconds after a scary scene in a movie. Racy heart, and all that. Where I come from, I mean, the part of the states I am in, we (Spirit Filled Christians) say "I have a peace about that." Meaning the Spirit in us is in agreement with something seen or said, etc. We also say "That quickens to my Spirit" referring to the latter. It comes from within you, but you can tell that it is not "of" you. I can't explain it any better than that. It feels "more good" than something that could possibly come from you.

Don't get me wrong, I am not infallible. If my heart is being rebellious, God will let me hit hard to snap me back in shape. Free will is still very much involved. The Spirit does not control me, but it does not steer me wrong when I listen. Too many "coincidences" have occurred in my life from listening to it for me NOT to think it true. To many insights where I should not have had them. How did I get it? I was desperate for help and had blind faith. It was a choice to receive, but when it happened, I felt trapped with no other option and just CHOSE to believe purely on faith.

What did it feel like? It is not easily described. The feeling hit, and I had proof. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done, but looking back, it should have been one of the easiest. It was like an unshackling. It was like a hug from a long gone friend. It was like a warmth without heat. It was satisfying. Things were brighter, I mean visually, things seemed brighter. It wasn't scary. It made me want to dance. I didn't want "it" because I didn't know what "it" was. I only knew I needed something, and when I got "it" I knew "it" was "it." Funny thing though, in the months that followed my experience, Satan REALLY unloaded on me. HORRIBLE things then happened to me and my home. But it was easily borne. It was a tempering. And I have never looked back since, and I never will.

Hope that helps,

NCWalker

Hi Bob.

"Be still and know that I am God"

One of the hardest parts of any relationship is learning how and when to close your mouth and listen.

Have you ever had one of your kids by the arm trying to get their attention so that you could help them, only they were too lost in their little drama to be still and listen?

God bless,
Gimble

VERY well said, Gimble.

Bob-

I didn't read this whole thread, I just wanted to tell you about my personal experience.

I grew up in the prodistant church, The Church of Christ to be exact, and I basically think that I went through the motions. I knew enough about God and religion to hold an intelligent conversation, but never had the *personal* relationship that you are asking about. I was baptized, I took communion, but I never felt that *connection*. For a while I thought of myself as "wiccan", but could never really commit to that either.

When my marriage started to fall apart around my ears, I didn't know what to do, I hadn't been paying attention, and was blindsided. I didn't know what to do, I was completely offended when my husband said "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" and I thought, "Well, I'll be damned if I live with someone who isn't *In Love* with me". But throughout the whole thing, even as I was getting my apartment, etc., I never felt like divorce was the right thing to do......it felt completely wrong.

Once I moved out a pastor of a church came to visit my neighbor, and I happened to be at this neighbors house at the time (Coincidence? I don't think so). My neighbor told the pastor about my situation, and he talked to me. He was a baptist minister, and my only experiences with baptist ministers, I'll have to admit were less than good....I didn't like their fire and brimstone delivery. But this minister was different. He took the time to talk to me, and then he came back, with his wife and talked to me again.

Although I'd been baptized when I was 8 years old, I wasn't saved until the day he came to my house. I began to read the bible, I began to pray. I didn't get it right to begin with, I was so consumed by my situation, all I did was pray that God would deliver me from it.

I recall one night, driving home, and being so overwhelmed by grief that I was bawling and crying and screaming to God "This burden is too heavy Lord, please, please take it from me" over and over and over.

This pastor advised me that I needed to pray *for* my husband, not just for myself, and that God was not a spare tire, only to be used in emergencies. That phrase stuck with me, I had been treating him as such, and all at once I knew how wrong I'd been.

I do, now, have a personal relationship with God. He doesn't answer me in words, he doesn't *talk* to me, as such. But I most definitely get the answers to my prayers.

It's hard to describe, but I pray, and I give everything to God, and he makes everything okay. I ask for him to give me peace, and he does. It's incredible.

They say the Lord works in mysterious ways, and I, for one, can attest to that. Had my husband not come unglued last spring.....I would have kept on the way I have been. My relationship with God couldn't be forged without some pain on my part. This wasn't God's doing, I was in a self imposed hell. Had I been following him all along, I don't believe that I would have been in the position I was in, and I honestly don't know what else would've made me wake up and smell the coffee.

I no longer sit around and think "Why did this happen to me?"....I really never did, I KNOW why this happened to me.

I am happier today than I think I ever have been. I miss the closeness that I used to feel from my husband, but it's coming back, slowly but surely.

God has even given me the peace and understanding to forgive the OP, that's a MONUMENTAL step for me.

Well that's my experience, I hope it helps <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Caren

Hmmmm. Interesting all.

What I find strange is that I feel NW if I had a genuine personal relationship with God, nothing would ever worry me again.
NOTHING.

KNOWING the eternal God talks to you ? What else matters ?

Man. Wow. That would be very cool.

I have HOPE and FAITH but not a KNOWING. Reliance on Jesus is always scary for me, though I can;t remember Him ever letting me down.

A summary of the intervention of God in my life since d-day. Well, Its hard to write but here goes:

D-day - Help me God. Send me calm so I can steer this ship ( mysterious calm landed upon me)
Soon after - Lord tell me what I should do ? I have no idea (found MB and 'the penny' dropped almost immediately)
Lord God let OM never see Squid, or know her touch ever again
( Their affair was at its peak AND it was 'karate tournament' season, yet illnesses, other commitments and a 'romantic holiday' that OM took his GF on meant that OM never met Squid again after that prayer. Been almost a year with total physical NC against all the odds.
Now a controversial one..
Lord I curse this OM in the Lord, as Elisha cursed the taunting youths. I pray YOUR curse on this Godless man who so wilfully destroys a Godly marriage

Next day OM estranged son died in a car accident
His Mom developed cancer and died within two months
His GF developed an ear condition that would render her profoundly deaf inside a year
His DS11 discovered his affair and HATES his dad for it now. With his GF they make OMs life a living hell.
He has sought counselling for bereavement, for relationship disorders and stuggled with near breakdown ever since.

Now controversial because I don't feel good about this, but if I had prayed for wealth and love for OM the equivalent would be a lottery win, a new baby and him finding Jesus none would doubt the result of prayer. I got exactly what I asked for. OMs life is profoundly awful. I don't know how to consider this situation really, but I don't se ehow it is NOT scriptural either. Help ?

Ongoing Lord place YOUR words in my mouth, YOUR actions in my arm...I have no idea how to respond to this I must release YOU to do this Never failed me ONCE. I magnificently said and did almost all the right things ESPECIALLY when I didn;t think about them much, and instead just prayed.

In response to an existential moan about being alone abandoned and broken, on one of my prayer walks, I was stood in the middle of St Jame's priory ruins when God poured a message into me. He showed the real meaning of the 23rd psalm to me, and the joy and relief made me cry on my knees in the park. I have goosebumps even now.

I SHALL NOT want All I need God promised to deliver. He would not fail me now in this spiritual warfare.

he makes me lie down in green pastures. By the still waters he leads me

God guides me to the best healthiest place to live. Calm places, nourishing places physically and spiritually.

He restores my soul Not 'might' 'IS DOING'. He gave me faith that the damage to my soul caused by Squids affair IS being fixed already.

He leads me in the paths of righteousness , for hi snames sake because he is GOD, not because of anything I did or didn't do. He would not allow me to behave unrighteously in the face of infidelity. And that is possibly my greatest blessing over this time.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For thou art with me

Still makes me shiver in awe. God held my hand through the scariest parts of this mess. All I had was a hope in God and a fear of him at times. And that was enough. Amen.

thy rod and staff they comfort me

He reminded me what a shepherd does. How his ROD is a tool for guidance down the path of best living, and the STAFF is a weapon for the defence of His sheep from attack. The Lord , my shepherd will guide me down HIS right road and will protect me from attack just like a great shepherd with his flock.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou annointest my head with oil; My cup runneth over.

God told me here that He would invest goodness and joy in my life and that this would heap ashes on the head of OM.

He toldme that He would refine me though this process that I may be of better use to Him afterwards. And that I would want for nothing, if I only trust Him.

That doesn't in any way do justice the wonderful deconstruction of that Psalm God gave me that day. I was buzzing for weeks over it. Still am sometimes.

Lord, how do I stop hating her ?

And God told me to forgive her. And He gave me the tools to forgive her. And I have. And it was like leaving a sack of rocks at the side of the road.

Lord, send me help in the guise of someone with specific experience

Gimble got in touch saying "I didn't welcome it, but God's told me to help you out over the karate stuff and Squids's stubbornness. May as well get on with it then ! ". Magnificent help from this great man.

Lord, I pray help with recovering in the right way - I am clueless and scared Enter RIF with his gentle example and experience of Godly headship of his family and 'safe platform' investment in his FWW. Wonderful.

Lord, stop Squids obsession with Karate - her prioritisation of this dark spiritual activity above almost everything else

Thats a work in progress but its happening. Like I never dreamed it would happen.

And theres loads more. These were the biggest actions I ascribe to God in my recovery.

That make any sense ?

It makes perfect sense to me.

As does Caren's and the others posts.

God did not answer my prayers to save my parents, from their addictions or from their subsequent deaths. I do know that he might have answered THEIR prayers to take them home though. I hope with all my heart that this is what happened.

In my prayers last night I ended up praying for ex, for me and for DD.

I prayed that God would intervene and save ex's soul from the darkness which grips it.

I prayed that God would lead me into a life which would serve Him.

And I continued all night to pray for peace, and release from this pain.

I am still in pain, but I am not on the floor anymore and I know that soon I will be in His arms once again.

Thank you Bob for this thread, it is so very comforting to read.

Hi Bobbo! Very glad to see you are asking the "tougher" questions. You've "come a long way, baby!"

SANCTIFICATION. It's the process we all go through. You are "doing great!" as is to be expected with a "surrendered life."

Now, at the risk of seeming "simple and trite," let me ANSWER your question directly. While I'm doing that, would you please hold my cell phone to one of your ears and listen to both God and me while we establish that "communications link" you are seeking? See, it's part of the "wireless network," and you can be connected anywhere you happen to be, IF you choose the only two "routers" that work.....Scripture and Prayer. Occasionally, if your "system is down," God will "route" a message to you via another believer's system, until you can get your's up and running again.

So here's the "answer(s)" to your "how to" question.

1. BELIEVE God. Do you? Doubt is "unbelief." Either God IS Truth or he isn't. Which do you choose to believe?

2. TRUST God. Do you? Satan tempted the "man" Jesus by speaking "some truth" and then bending it so that "obedience" of God's will and commands would be replaced with "testing God." Do you trust God enough to "take Him at His Word.?"

3. ACCEPT Him as your Father, just a child does. He WILL NOT give you a stone to eat and he will not lead you into danger or sin. ONLY those who do accept Him with "childlike" total acceptance will "dwell in His loving companionship."

Remember, too, that Jesus has clearly and truthfully stated that when He stands at your door and knocks, ALL who open the door and let Him in will find that both the Father and the Son, as well as the Holy Spirit, WILL enter in and make their home with you. Can't have much closer access or communication than with someone who lives with you and in your, eh?

4. HOLD His hand. He is the innerrant guide who KNOWS where your steps will lead if you follow Him and where they will lead if you "let go" and follow your own unlit path. Hold fast to the unbreakable promises of God.

God's "hand" wrote the 10 Commandments to speak directly and unambiguously to all of us. WE humans choose to ignore Him and "hang up the phone," to not "pay our cell phone bill," to live where there are "no cell towers" so we won't be "bothered" by the truth or anyone telling us NOT to do whatever we feel like doing. We humans reject Jesus Christ as the "light and the truth," and we willingly exchange the truth for a lie. Small wonder why we don't "hear Him" when we choose the networks that do NOT connect to God.

I know that's a bit brief of an answer for so "deep" of a question. But MOST of God really IS simplicity. Complexity and deviousness is more of Satan's modus operandi.

Try letting Christ lead instead of you. "If you loved me, you would obey my commands" extends to "who you allow to lead" in your life and to "who you put implicit trust in."

Lastly, if you are still struggling with this question, meditate on all the prophets and apostles. Take Paul, for example. ONE direct communiction, one "wassup?" communication answered loudly and directly....and then, to the best of our knowledge, no further direct communication. But ONCE was ENOUGH. When we encounter God and surreneder to Him, once IS enough. The rest is fighting our "human nature" just as Paul "fought" his.

But Paul immediately accepted all 4 "ways" to know and have a direct communication with God anytime he wanted to.

God bless.

FH , thats very useful. Your mockery of my communications link analogy was well deserved !

I see that a personal relationship with God is not the same as batphone any more than just talking on the phone is a personal relationship with my Squid or best friend.

And that I need to study and pray more.

I DO have a tendency to complicate stuff - Scripture can be pretty hard going as you can read it on a literal level as a history book, on a literary level as a glorious poem, or most important on a subliminal level as a living spiritual entity. Truly
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And in truth its been when I have had no mortal option but to depend on God when my greatest blessings have come, like during this affair/recovery mess.

So much food for thought.

I have a scary thought that God will anoint me through this refining process I am going through to render me fit for some purpose of His, great or humble.

Thanks again FH. I still feel bad that I have doubts despite the blessings I have manifestly received.

"Lord, Please forgive me...not for my belief, but for my unbelief."

A prayer all of us need to offer up from time to time.

In His arms.

A desperate father brought his son to Jesus. "My son is possessed by a demon, so I brought him to You." The man choked back a sob. "It tears at him and makes him foam at the mouth, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I asked Your disciples to help, but they couldn't do anything."

Jesus looked tenderly at the discouraged, weary man, and turned to the convulsing boy. "How long has he been like this?"

The father began to weep openly. "Ever since he was small. Sometimes the evil spirit throws him into the fire, or tried to drown him." The dark circles under his eyes and sickly cast of his skin told of many sleepless nights spent in sleepless vigil, guarding the life of his son. The man lifted his gaze to Jesus' face. "You can't imagine what I've been through trying to protect him, but it's no use. If there's anything at all You can do, have pity on us and help us!"

Jesus paused, His rebuke gentle enough not to crush the fragile, hurting human before Him. "All things are possible to those who believe."

The father dropped to his knees. A terror flooded his mind, that he would lose his only chance for help, and it would be his own fault. "Lord, I do believe," he sobbed brokenly, "but help me with my unbelief."

It was a prayer Jesus never failed to answer. He turned to the boy, a smile lighting His face. "Evil spirit, I command you to come out of this boy, and never return!"

With one last, violent spasm, the spirit ripped itself from the boy and fled. The boy lay so still and quiet that some in the crowd whispered, "Look, he's dead." Then the boy moved his head ever so slightly, his eyelids flickered, and his cheeks blossomed with the color of health. Slowly, uncertainly, he sat up and looked around.

"Father?"

God, I believe in You today. Take away my doubts and give me faith to take their place. Hear me and have compassion on me because I know You are able. Lord, help mine unbelief!

HI Bob
I read your post and I keep getting this prod in my back to respond. There are times all of us ask the questions you ask and we have to remember that one of the greatest tools Satan uses is to mess with our minds. Its great to ask questions. Thank you for starting this posts and for sharing it does help many of of.

I will share just a bit of what happened with me. Hubby was deployed over seas hanging with another female, buying her gifts, dinners on and on. Now I was never the most patient person and always knew that I could "fix" things. Well on this one I could not. The more I "fixed" the worse things became until I heard "Be still, do nothing" You have got to be kidding me be still me do nothing no way not ever, everybody always came to me for help and answers. Well after several whacks over the head I was, for two years I was still and quiet while my spouse continued on overseas. He has since returned and I have seen God's work in his life. The change is incredible. There have been several times I have decided the hurt was to painful cause to this day my h denies anything happened. On several occasions when I was just done and could go on no longer I cried out and the answer I got was a Bald eagle flying by my vehicle and we don't get many out here. Bald eagles are on of my h favorites. Here is the verse I was also given
Isaiah 40:31 "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strenght; they shall mount up with wings as Eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint." I know God was telling me to not give up to rest in HIM while HE was working on my h. And on a lot of days when I start doubting I see Eagles somewhere in the sky while driving, only twice however have they flown very close to my vehicle and those were the two times I was giving up.

I also wonder at time why God hasn't answered my prayer to know for sure what went on with my h and this girl. I believe HE answers all prayers. Well I finally opened up on these boards and two people came to me AW and Standingtogether and told me that maybe God is still working on my h to have him be the one to tell me, that God is still working on my h. That has brought me a peace that I have not known throughout the last five years.

Thank you again for sharing. I see God's work through you in how you reach out to others God is using you to help so many others just as God has used other to help you.

Here is something else I had found about Eagles

Did you know that an eagle knows when a storm is approaching long before it breaks? The eagle will fly to some high spot and wait for the winds to come.
When the storm hits, it sets its wings so that the wind will pick it up and lift it above the storm. While the storm rages, below the eagle is soaring above it. The eagle does not escape the storm, it simply uses the storm to lift it higher. It rises on the winds that bring the storm.

When the storms of life come upon us ... and all of us will experience them ... we can rise above them by setting our minds and our belief toward God.

The storms do not have to overcome us, we can allow God's power to lift us above them. God enables us to ride the winds of the storm that bring sickness, tragedy, failure, and disappointment into our lives. We can soar above the storm.

Remember, it is not the burdens of life that weigh us down, it is how we handle them.


~ Author Unknown ~

"Feeling bad?" Or maybe "feeling convicted by the Holy Spirit?"

Bob, we are ALL human and we ALL fight our innate human nature. We will do so until we are glorified with God.

Until then, just know that I, too, have "days of doubting." Doubting doesn't cause God to lose any sleep. Consider Thomas, the quintessential doubter. We was God's chosen disciple, and remained so even while succumbing to our human nature of "doubting" things.

Ever wonder where the phrase, "I'm from Missouri, show me!" came from? Perhaps not, since you're British, but Missouri elevates doubting to a national slogan.

Why do you think so many nonbelievers "doubt" even the existance of God, much less that you CAN talk directly to God and get answers and help in times of trouble?

Doubting is not just the "American pasttime," it's the "Worldwide pasttime."

From one occasional doubter to another, "eet iz hokay to doubt, God uses even dat to work for zee good in our lives und to teach us more lessons."

But then again, I have no doubt that you understand what I'm saying.

God bless.