Good point, Alph! You are much better at expressing my point of view than I am. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Of course, my WH says he will 'probably' end up marrying his MOW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It is 'true love,' you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Pebbles,

You are right. Keep them away from her as long as you can. I am so thankful I did what I did to keep her away. My son is still trying to personally recovery himself at just 4 years old. I just keep thinking I am their voice, and so I will use it for as long as I can for them.

Good for you. WS never see logic in anything until it is too late. The fog covers their eyes. It's all in the scripts.

HINY

Gimble - speaking for myself, we waited 11 months to introduce the kids. They(on both sides) were asking to meet the other person in our lives.
"pedophilic in nature" - I don't know what your basing this on. We both have kids and were in no hurry.

Alphin - I'll use one quote from this post - "I've not totally exposed to my kids, but I will if I need to, they are old enough to understand that its more important to daddy to be friends with Mrs. MOW than it is to live with us" - that has been my experience with the BS in my relationship. It's not to get the WS back, it's to poisen the kids against him - which only serves to hurt the kids.

Pebbles - I agree with your statment that alot of people do enuff harm to their relationship with their kids & that sucks! When that isn't the case, when the WS has fallen in love(yes, we are in love) with someone else but they are continuing a relationship with their kids(sees them 3 days a week min) having the BS not accept that can only hurt the kids in my opinion.

I would in no way advocate a sleep over w/ OW/OM where kids are involved until the divorce is final and even then - not until the kids are comfortable with the relationship. The kids are hurt by a divorce, but if you love them why would you make it worse with the revenge/get back attitude? You were married to their parent - you trusted the parents judgement - just because their feelings for you have changed does not mean their feelings for their children have changed or how they would treat them.

Pep - I can only speak for my kids and our relationship - but yes, I did introduce them and yes I was introduced. We are tryin to raise our kids the best we know with a minimum of trauma to their lives(yea, I know - we did cause the trauma). I truly feel the aftermath from our spouses has caused more trauma to their lives then the divorces ever did and it did not have to be this way.

Other,

WS need to take responsibility for their own actions. If they leave their families for the OP, WHY should the BS pretend that they haven't? WHY protect the WS?

Kids deserve truth, delivered in an age-appropriate way, of course. It isn't right for a WS to leave a marriage and children, even if they are 'in love' with someone else. By leaving the family for this 'love' they are indeed demonstating that the OP is more important than their family, including the children, no matter how many times a week they see them. The adultery damages the marriage, the family, and the wider family. It is, simply, wrong. Children do deserve to be taught right from wrong, don't they?

Hi, theother

Quote:
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Gimble - speaking for myself, we waited 11 months to introduce the kids. They(on both sides) were asking to meet the other person in our lives.
"pedophilic in nature" - I don't know what your basing this on. We both have kids and were in no hurry.
==================================

I want to say so much, but I have to be honest with you. I have serious doubts about the children 'asking to meet the other person in our lives' without coercion. Please tell me how that occurred.

Gimble

theother this statement actually sickens me. BTW, I am both a FWS and a BS. Don't you see you and your affair partner are still using your exmarriage partners to justify your actions? Waiting 11 months to introduce them? Did you D first? If not you just exposed innocent children to an imoral relationship. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So other, your perspective is the BS should just lump because you are "in love"? Gag! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Alphin - I do see your point of view and I understand where it comes from and I truly am sorry for your loss.
Let me ask you this. You believe that kids should be taught that no matter what, even if they are in a miserable marriage with someone - they should stay even though they tried to make it work and it's just not working? There is no "connection" to their spouse.
I personally will hope to teach my kids that life is precious and to be happy and content in this life we are given.
We did not abandon our kids - we ended a marriage that was already gone. We want our kids. We want our kids to be happy, healthy people. We love our kids!

Alphin - I'll use one quote from this post - "I've not totally exposed to my kids, but I will if I need to, they are old enough to understand that its more important to daddy to be friends with Mrs. MOW than it is to live with us" - that has been my experience with the BS in my relationship. It's not to get the WS back, it's to poisen the kids against him - which only serves to hurt the kids.

How is the truth 'poisoning the kids against daddy' ?

You really believe that BS should say " be nice to OP darlings as daddy loves her now, so you should also ?"

You are evidently an OP or WS, and you seem to advocate the WS/OP dream scenario of kiddies playing happy families with the support of a passive BS.

You are lucky you had an apparently compliant set of BS in yoru situation theother.

YOU and your partner hurt the kids in your situation badly. LIES hurts kids. INFIDELITY hurts kids. Truth does not IME.

Other,

I am interested in your sitch - could you tell us about it, please?

Alph.

Gimble - Our spouses informed the kids of our "others" - we did not. After that, when the kids asked questions, we were honest about seeing other people. We never asked them to join us. Eventually, they did ask to meet the other person. I think they expected awefull people, but that wasn't the case. They expected to hate the other people and they really did try, but in the end that wasn't the case either.

TO
IF your second marriage works out ( and most post affair marriages don't) you will be in the 3% of affairs that "work out".

You REALLY think the odds support a BS giving up the kids to OP visits before a helluva fight ?

My OWN marriage was bad. My Squid thought hers was an exit affair at the time. She was DESPERATE for OM to meet our kids. It would sort of 'sanctify' their 'love'.

Now after work we are in a great recovery, in love and sharing the adventure of a burgeoning marriage once more. MANY Others on these boards were in 'bad' marriages, and a wonderful M is recovered from them.

I would NEVER advise a BS to allow OP in their kids lives until the very last second they have to.

And BTW , Alph hasn;t lost anything yet. SHE'S fighting like a tigress for her marriage and her kids best interests.

Have you married your affair partner (someone you left your ex for)?

If so, when?

Alph.

Alphin - I was a MOW and he was a MOM. We are not proud of what we did and I won't say "we didn't mean it to happen".
We were both in dead marriages and staying for the kids. We had both tried counciling and that failed. We met 4 years ago thru mutual friends.
We are currently raising our kids in seperate houses until the battles of the divorces are done. Even then, until we are married we will continue to raise our kids seperately.
I'm not sure if that's what you were asking or if you wanted to know something different.

Aw, thanks b0b.

Alph.

Bob - your right and I apologize to Alphin for the comment about her loss.

I'm glad you have your marriage back. Mine wasn't the same story. No one has asked me why I'm on this site. Let me tell you. It's because I failed in my marriage. IF me and my MOM do make this work - I want it to be forever. I want to give this the best chance at surviving. I want all the advice I can get to make this work - for us and the kids.

I’m reading your posts and taking a more distant view of the situation, a “down the road” view. The onus shouldn’t be upon the betrayed partners to smooth things over and accommodate the cheaters. There is a “look what they are doing to the children!” message in your words.

You and your new spouse may well be living the greatest love story of the decade. Your marriage may even last. It is easy to admonish and make pronouncements from the perch of the new love nest. It is easy to demand unselfishness of another. After all, you won each other from unworthy, unloveable mates, went through so much to be together. Now, you have the prize.

The “down the road” view is this: The kids turn old enough to date. The girls encounter married guys. Or the boys meet married women. People in some sort of committed relationship. Their romantic template tells them that it is normal to have affairs with married people. That things will turn out all right in the end. That the betrayed partner had better just “get over it” and “behave” because vows are less important than feelings. Once married, they feel entitled to cheat. Mom and Dad did it, and they are happy, they aren't ashamed. Cheating is normal, acceptable, all right, as long as you are "in love."

Why do I say this? You are the childrens’ first teachers. They will imitate you. If you teach them good grooming by example, they will copy you. If you cook healthy food, if you pay your bills on time, if you volunteer in the community, they will internalize that. If you cheat, they are more likely to do that as well.

The childrens’ parents in a perfect world would control their hurt and anger and not pass it on to their children. Some parents actually succeed in this, they push their own feelings down and say nothing to color the childrens’ behaviors. They are truly mature and evolved.

In a perfect world, parents don’t cheat on each other or divorce and go off with new mates. They push their own feelings down and work on their marriages, they deny their own happiness and sacrifice it for the good of their commitment and for the children. You could have done this, been truly mature and evolved. But you didn’t, and you aren’t.

Other,

No worries about the 'loss' comment!

Thanks for letting us know why you are here.

How does your STBXH feel about the divorce? How did he feel when he found out you were having an affair?

Alph.

Bell - yea, I guess you are right about the "look what they are doing to the kids" view. That is my experience though and I've lurked on this site and read the hurt and pain from the BS and how it's passed on to the kids.
"Cheating is normal, acceptable, all right, as long as you are "in love." - not so. But I can't defend that approach. I won't even try.
Your right about things I could have done. Things we all could have done to save the marriages and didn't. It wasn't just me and my MOM that were in the marriages that failed. There were 2 other people. I'm not blaming them, but I refuse to take full responsibility.