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#1410577 06/22/05 10:40 AM
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Hi
I am new to this forum and I’m completely lost at this time. My wife and I have been separated for one year and 9 months. At this time we still do not have a formal separation agreement. We have a 3 year old daughter( who is a gem). The reason for our separation was because of my sexual indiscretions. We lived together for 3 years before we were married. We got married in 2000 after 2 years of marriage for a period of about one year I got involved with escorts. I guess at the time it seemed like a no hassle way to have an affair, no strings attached. Sheesh what an idiot. Well anyway I could go into a lot more details but overall our relationship was one of envy by our families and friends.

I love my wife very much. I want nothing more than to work through this and earn my wife’s trust and build our family stronger than it ever was. Over the course of the separation I have been there to support her through and for whatever she needs. I have begged and pleaded with her to participate in some kind of counseling but that has been to no avail. There have been periods of time where I have been to her house every night for 3 or 4 weeks straight, just hanging out eating dinner watching movies etc. There has been however no serious sexual contract during this period. During this period she has done some light dating with 4 or 5 different men. Of course she hasn’t told me this. Its amazing what other people will tell you. I know this lacks a lot of details but I hope you get the picture. Keep in mind that over this period she has never given me any indication or commitment to work out our marriage. So let me get to the latest situation.

Three weeks ago I spent Thursday evening with her. We had some wine and hung out in the hot tub laughing and carrying on. Of course after the second bottle things got ugly. She began berating me and degrading me over what I did . I would understand this if this wasn’t the first time this had happened. This scene has been repeated at least 20 times over the period of separation. Friday morning I called to make the usual arrangements to pick up our child for the weekend. I told her that I had enough. She had a separation agreement drawn up about a year ago. We never formalized it because there were some things in there that I didn’t agree with. It has been lying dormant for all this time. I told her that It was time to move forward with the divorce and that she please get me a copy of the agreement so we could get this done. She agreed. Well Friday evening comes and she hasn’t gotten me the copy. Sunday when I drop off our child still no copy. She ask me to stay for dinner and hang out with her and that our child wants me to stay to play with her in the pool. Of course she is being much nicer now. We get together for the next 4 evenings just doing the regular family stuff. But come Thursday she goes on another date. Now (lol) I’m done. I told her that being around her and doing these family things is only building me up and tearing out my heart when it ends. That for the last time I wont do this anymore and we need to move on. It wasn’t my weekend fathers day but I made arrangements to pick up our daughter in the morning to take her to breakfast and the park. When I dropped her off my wife asked me to stay, her family was coming over and she said our daughter would like it if I stayed. I did. She then got in the hot tub for most of the evening drank lots of wine while I took care of our daughter. After putting our daughter to bed I came back down and she was naked in the hot tub. I made some slight moves toward her but they were rebuffed. After getting out of the hot tub our daughter woke up crying she was having a rough night. Since she was so intoxicated she asked me to stay the night on the couch. I did. Our daughter was having a rough night sleeping so she brought her into her bed. She then called for me to come upstairs and stay in the bed with the two of them. Monday I took off work and stayed the day helping her hand pictures clean the pool cut the grass etc. The next night she then went out on a date. I know this is long and lots and lots of info is missing. But my question is
DO I GIVE UP?

Last edited by Daysgoneby; 07/18/05 10:00 AM.
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Its clear she is afraid of being hurt again. I'm not the best to give advice from a BS point of view. It looks like there is hope, why give up?

^ Bump for experienced MB'ers.

If a person NEVER QUIT when the going got tough, they WOULDN'T have anything to REGRET for the rest of their life.....

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I just dont know what to do. Im I there too much? Is it the saying "Let it go if it loves you it will return"(something like that}. Do more ,do less, do nothing. So confused


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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Days

Welcome to plan B.(maybe)!!!

First piece of advice is to spend a bit more time poking around the site and learning the concepts and the difference between plan A and Plan B. There actually designed to get your wayward spouse (WS) to commit to the M but there is no reason I can see that it won’t work in reverse.

You’ve been unknowingly in plan A for nearly 2 years. Doing nice things for her, meeting some of here needs, building up her love for you. Read up on it and see if your plan A needs any tweaking.

Plan B is when a Betrayed spouse (BS) lets the WS live without them, while still being pleasant if and when any interaction occurs. The object is to let them see that the grass is not always greener.

Sounds to me like you threatened a Plan B and she came around. (Slightly)

Let’s see what others say but my thoughts lean toward a plan B. Sit her down, or better yet write her a letter laying it all out. How the current situation makes YOU feel, what her actions do to YOU. Don’t make it about what she’s doing wrong, just about what YOU are getting from it. Explain that you want the M but can’t keep living like this and all ties except for interaction with or about your GEM is all there can be unless she changes her mind and decides it’s worth trying to save the M. The way it stands today she has her cake and gets to eat it. Your meeting certain need for her, home maintenance, child care, company, available for special appearance with the folks, yet she gets to date.

Words of caution, plan B is an ultimatum and ultimatums are bad no matter how nicely you wrap them. Never threaten what you can’t or won’t do. (This is why I really recommend you understand the concepts around here first.) Heck buy the book and read it first, you’ve been at this 2 years, what’s a few more weeks.

More caution. Yes it’s been 2 years but as you have seen she has not processed her anger and figuratively you are still pond scum. If you do end up back in the house you’re going to have be prepared to digest some of her rage for a while.

A question for you. What have you done to improve yourself and make yourself worthy of her, Counseling, self improvement, anything?

It can happen..

Oz


"The longest journey of any person is the journey inward." Author Unknown I'm a survivor and here is My Long Journey
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I think the real question is do you WANT to give up?

I'm no psychologist, but it sounds like your W is punishing you by going out on dates, being sexually provacative then rebuffing you and asking you to be with the family and then not letting you get close. Also, if she is seeing other people while she's still married, there's a term for this behavior: revenge affairs. I'm not telling you all this to upset you even more but rather to let you know that this is actually a fairly normal reaction from a BS towards a WS/FWS. It's like if you were punched in the face, the first instinct is to hit back. That's her defense mechanism.

So, it goes back to the question - do you want to give up or make it work? If making it work is your choice, then you need to act quickly - before you lose all your love and patience with your W. There is much you can learn from reading the section on Infidelity on this website and to hear from the many wonderful people who have experienced the same thing on this forum. So, start asking the questions!! If you truly are willing to do what it takes to get your W and family back, we'll all help you out! Just keep in mind that it may be a long-term process. Someone very wise once said to me that rebuilding a M is a marathon, not a sprint. I'm the living proof.

Just remember this - you are NOT alone in this. Many others have been through the EXACT same thing and have survived and are onto brighter futures with their spouses. On the flip side, it does take 2 to tango. You AND your W must be committed to making things work. The good news is that even if she's not quite ready for it, there are ways to help her along. We can all help coaching you through that.

So, what's your decision?


Whisper

FWW (me) 32 / BH 33
M - 12 yrs / 0 kids
EA/PA lasted 1.5 yrs
NC - 5/25/05 ... in recovery ever since!!!

"If you love something, set it free ..."
(Just glad I was smart enough to come back!)
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Whisper- No matter what she has said or done over the last well almost 2 years has yet to put a dent in my love and attraction and affection for her. Evey time I see her I fall in love with her again. Everytime I see our daughter and were together laughing and playing I fall in love with her all over again. So I guess my answer is No Im not giving up.

OZ- I was in counseling for about a year. I have offered to open up any parts of my life she wants to see ie. cell phone records, bank statements etc. Im trying to show her that im living a very normal lifestyle and that I'm happy with who I am. That my indescetions of the past will never happen again and continue to show remorse and regret for what i did.

Oh and btw I called my therapist yesterday to blow off what I was feeling and ask what he thought. His response was "I can understand how this upsets you it must be dfficult". Im looking for a new therepist now.


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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Begin at the begining. How did you get into this mess? Who did what? Opinions are like back pians...every one has one...what you need is a quaified opinion and to give you one of those it takes input. So lets get it all out on the table so folks can give you their best. OK?
Coach

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DGB -

I'm SOOOO happy to hear your answer! With this, I agree w/ Coach. Let's hear the whole story so that we know how to help. Like I said, we're here for you!


Whisper

FWW (me) 32 / BH 33
M - 12 yrs / 0 kids
EA/PA lasted 1.5 yrs
NC - 5/25/05 ... in recovery ever since!!!

"If you love something, set it free ..."
(Just glad I was smart enough to come back!)
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Coach and Whisper,
What do you mean the whole story can you give me a little more insight into what the whole story would contain.

I did read more into the Plan A and B. It seems almost ridiculous for me to assume the position of the BS when I was the WS.Im so confused.

DGB


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Days,
I don't think anyone meant you should assume the role of the BS. Plan A or B can work for a wide range of situations.

However, if you want to get technical you are still married and your W is dating. Seems to me that you could fall on both sides of the fence.

I'm glad to see you have gotten some counseling and made positive changes. I'm betting your W has noticed, she's just still hurting.

Oz


"The longest journey of any person is the journey inward." Author Unknown I'm a survivor and here is My Long Journey
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"can you give me a little more insight into what the whole story would contain."

>What were the circumstances that caused you to seek an A w/ an escort service? What made you come back? What have you done to convince your W that this wouldn't happen again? Why do you think your W is dating other people?

In the meantime, I do agree w/ Oswald. Start reading up on Plan B.


Whisper

FWW (me) 32 / BH 33
M - 12 yrs / 0 kids
EA/PA lasted 1.5 yrs
NC - 5/25/05 ... in recovery ever since!!!

"If you love something, set it free ..."
(Just glad I was smart enough to come back!)
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Well i guess i pulled the trigger on plan b well sort of. Her birthday is tommorow night and I had plans to take her to a nice restaurant for dinner. Guess I'll still do that.I had our D this weekend it was fantastic. W called all day Saturday just wanting to chat. Plans were to drop off D Sunday evening but she called to asked if I could bring her Monday morning, an older couple who are friends of ours almost like a step mom and dad, real nice people, wanted to take her to dinner for her b-day. What she failed to mention was that her new interest was comming over the house after dinner. I wrote a nice letter stating my intentions that I will honor and respect any decisions she needs to do and that I will continue to be devoted to her our D and my self improvement. But it is impossible for me to have any contact other than the necessary for our D until she decides that the rebuilding of our M is her first priority.

I also have made 3 seperate appointments with sexual addiction counselors(3 because I want to find someone i am comfortable with), she doesnt believe that this is a problem that I can control on my own. Well maybe she's right I've had it under control for the last year and nine months but I guess she needs to see more from me.

Anyway gave her the letter today. b-day dinner tommorow Plan B starts the next day. I hope i can commit to this.


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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Just a side note. WE still dont have a formal seperation aggreement. Though over the course of the last few days she has mentioned some of our assets we have together and that she thinks she has the right to them. Wants me to sign some aggreements separate from a formal aggrement giving her the rights to those assets.She says by signing it will give her some reasons to start trusting me again. ME thinks im being swindled. Keep your friends close and you enemys closer. Man we got a long way to go.


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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"gave her the letter today. b-day dinner tommorow Plan B starts the next day."

>Is this a smart thing? Meaning, you will have broken the 1st rule of Plan B if you take her out for her B-day. The hard thing about Plan B is sticking to it, and somewhat letting go of someone whom you love and care for deeply. B-Days, anniversaries, holidays & other special occassions will be exceedingly hard, but those are the times when she (hopefully) will reflect on your love the most. Having it "right there" when she needs it most will only reaffirm for her that your love and support will always be there, regardless of her actions. Just something to think about.

"I hope i can commit to this."

>You can. It's very hard to wrap your head around the Plan B concept when you love someone so much, but just keep in mind what you're trying to accomplish. Hopefully, that will keep your "eyes on the prize" and not give in.

"ME thinks im being swindled"

>I'd definitely take any contractual agreement that you sign w/ some caution right now. Until she's out of the fog, your W is not in her right mind. She's only thinking of herself, so just be careful what you agree to - since you're somehwat in a vulnerable position right now.


Whisper

FWW (me) 32 / BH 33
M - 12 yrs / 0 kids
EA/PA lasted 1.5 yrs
NC - 5/25/05 ... in recovery ever since!!!

"If you love something, set it free ..."
(Just glad I was smart enough to come back!)
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Thanks whisper, I agree with the timing of implementing plan b. I guess I dont feel real commited to it. Just seems odd, me the WS. Most days I feel like I should be there to do whatever she wants or needs, no matter what she is doing.Comming from a Catholic backround with all the penance stuff jammed into your head it gets quit confusing. It seems Im being manipulated most of the time but I know if I've done everything possible and if it all falls apart then I can face each day knowing I did whatever I could.

As far as legal docs I will stay away from that stuff.


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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Its full speed ahead with plan b. Dinner plans were canceled , on her part. After the letter she got very upset told me since I was the one who had the SA's that I had no right to question her and the should can do whatever she feels with whomever she feels like doing it with. I dont know maybe she's right.

I get so depressed reading all these treads and what the BS's are willing to do to rebuild their marriages. WOW the WS'S have no idea how lucky they are and that they are valued that highley

Ceremoniously I have deleted her contact info from my home and cell phone. LOL.

My goal is to have no contact with her until she wants to talk about reconciliation. One day at a time.


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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Her reaction to the letter is quite natural. Feel free to post & vent any time. This is going to be tough, but you can do it. Just hang in there. And, whatever you do, be sure to stick with it!!!

BTW - some of us FWS do very much realize how lucky we are to know the sacrifices our BS made for us. I know I don't deserve it, but I'm so thankful that my H waited and was willing to take me back.

Good luck to you,


Whisper

FWW (me) 32 / BH 33
M - 12 yrs / 0 kids
EA/PA lasted 1.5 yrs
NC - 5/25/05 ... in recovery ever since!!!

"If you love something, set it free ..."
(Just glad I was smart enough to come back!)
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Hey whisper
I should have said "I hope the WS's realize..." not "The WS's have no idea..."

I know in my brain this is what i have to do my heart is another matter. In looking into the future the hardest part is the diminished contract with my DD.She is the light of my life.Oh man I think I'm gonna cry.


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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Keep in mind - you've NOT diminished the contract w/ your daughter. No matter what, I'm confident you'll continue to give her the love and support that she needs. To me, the worst-case scenario is if you and your W can't work out your problems and stay married (unhappily) for the sake of your D. I was one of those kids who had to witness and tolerate the anguish, pain and emotional abuse b/c my parents thought it'd be best to stay together for my brother and me. I still have deep emotional scars that affects me and my decisions to this day. I wouldn't subject any kid to that!

Under the circumstances, what you're doing is the best thing possible for your daughter - you're sending the message that 1) it's important to compromise and work on the M and 2) you will not condone an A 3) individual happiness shouldn't be sacrificed. Isn't that what you'd tell her if she was caught in the same situation?

Don't beat yourself up too much. Your daughter will understand when she's a little older.


Whisper

FWW (me) 32 / BH 33
M - 12 yrs / 0 kids
EA/PA lasted 1.5 yrs
NC - 5/25/05 ... in recovery ever since!!!

"If you love something, set it free ..."
(Just glad I was smart enough to come back!)
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Thanks Whisper,I used to go over the house 3 or 4 times a week just hanging out with the W and DD ,that has stopped. I guess I'll go to pick her up instead and go to the park and stuff.


Day 2: seems like its been a year. Use to call and talk at least once a day was never really productive though. Didnt call at all yesterday but she did in the evening put my DD on the line we chatted well sort of. She's 3. She asked me to take her to the zoo lol. W got on the phone and wanted to chat about the things I'm doing to impove myself. I dont think she really cares its just a smoke screen. Well it's not my weekend to have my DD but I hope she will let me take her to the zoo though. Im sure she'll want time to be with the OM.

My stomach is in knots


Love wholeheartedly, be surprised, give thanks and praise--then you will discover the fullness of your life.
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