It is sad but true isn't it. You know it is coming, and you would rather get it over with then to sit and wait for it to happen. wondering.

The only way to be done with this is to remove yourself from the cycle. Your H is completely happy with things how they are and is not going to change. You're the one that has to take steps to remedy things...and that's by taking yourself and your kids out of his sick equation.

First, to everyone except KMEJ...

Over the last few years I've learned more than I wanted to about abusive situations. One of the things I've seen a lot is that someone being abused can agree absolutely with everything we tell her. We can all yell and scream to our hearts content, and she'll agree with us, and still won't do anything about it. Not until she's ready.

I say that not to tell everyone to quit telling her - on the contrary, I'm encouraging you all to keep at it. Please don't get discouraged by the fact that she hasn't actually done anything about it yet - it can take someone who's being abused a really long time and a whole lot of yelling and wake-up calls before they finally do something about it. All we can do is keep telling her, and hope she leaves before it is too late.

KMEJ - Here's one more voice telling you to get out. The man is doing what they call escalating. First it was mostly emotional and verbal abuse. It has become physical abuse. He's now willing to do it in front of the kids. You can talk to him until your face turns blue, and it won't change him one little bit. I know you're afraid, and that's a big part of what is stopping you. But you have far more to fear by staying.

Although other people have mentioned the effect this could have on your kids, let me make it a little clearer for you. Your oldest son is now 8. I know you cannot imagine this happening, but within 5 years or so, you run a real risk of having your son(s) start abusing you too. The verbal and emotional abuse will happen first, but when they get big enough, there's a good chance they will be physically abusive towards you. IF you are still with WH at that point in time, all he!! could break loose in the house. It's anyone's guess whether WH will choose to hit sons for it or approve of it. Also, it's most likely that your sons will see women as nothing more than servants or slaves. The abuse will continue, and they will go on to control, dominate, and abuse any woman unlucky enough to cross their paths.

Right now, you are able to be a parent to your sons still. The longer they see your husband abuse you, the less likely you will be able to maintain that parental authority as they get older.

Take some baby steps here. It's obvious you aren't quite ready to walk out yet. So do me a favor. Call one of the domestic abuse shelters. Just talk to them. They have experience in this sort of thing. They won't force anything on you, they'll just talk to you about options, and what you're going through. Please do at least that much.

And do end the EA with the guy you've been e-mailing. I understand how much you need that kind of support... but you really are playing with fire here. Forget the issue of whether it's really an A or not. Given the way your WH acts about you getting help from a male neighbor, you are seriously risking your life here. Unless you really, really, REALLY know what you are doing with computers, you are leaving a trail which your WH could find. And eventually he will. And he won't be happy about it. And you know what happens when he isn't happy with you.

Finally, I have a little more info I want to give you, but not in a public forum. Please e-mail me at my junk account (I only use it for things like this, and I don't really check it very often, so you need to e-mail me within the next day or two.) You need to e-mail me from an account to which you WH does not have access... If you don't have one, create one on Yahoo! or hotmail, and make the password something he wouldn't guess.

E-mail me at: kaycee1616@hotmail.com

You really need to get out of there. We are all rather afraid for you, the man is dangerous.

Oxgirl wrote: "The man is doing what they call escalating".

I agree, and I speak from experience. Your story chills me, KMEJ, because it so resembles mine. Like you, I was afraid to leave for so many reasons, and kept wanting things to just get better, hanging on to every shred of hope.

Well, things escalated till my husband chased me outside in the middle of the night, late January in Canada. I ran as fast as I could, barefoot in the snow. Lucky for me, he was too drunk to run as fast as usual. One of the neighbours (her daughter was my son's friend) was still up because her lights were on. I rang, banged on her door, screamed. At that point, realizing people would "see" what was going on, he turned back towards home, after screaming a few more choice curses at me.

My neighbour let me in, we called the police. The police came to interview me, and then went to my house to interview him. One of them came over to see me again, saying that he didn't believe my husband, that he seemed as cold as ice, yet was sneering and calling me hysterical. I went back to the house with the policeman to get my son. I know now that I could have stayed and made him move out, but I was too scared of him at that point. Based on what he said, I believed he would find me and make me pay dearly.

My son and I went to a Woman's Shelter. We were welcomed warmly. My son was put to bed in a room I would share with him. I stayed up a bit longer talking with the women counsellors who were all very supportive.

The next morning I got up, dropped my son off at school, went to my own work. Then I got a phone call that my husband had been taken to the hospital, that perhaps he would not survive. I left work and went to that hospital, and he was dead. They didn't need me to identify him, because they said his spouse had already identified him.

Yeah, his spouse. His 18-year-old girl friend. Poor thing. She was on the phone with him that morning, and apparently told him they were through. He told her he would kill himself. He did.

Given the state of mind he was in at the time, I believe that I would have been the one to die.

At the time, I lived through all of this alone and scared. My husband was a charming man to everyone, but a Jekyll and Hyde to me. The last thing I did for him was to organize an appropriate funeral for his friends and relatives. There didn't seem to be any point to airing all of that drama to them at that point. I asked the girl friend to stay away, and she did.

Believe me, KMEJ, every step of the way for years, I had kept reminding myself of how wonderful he could be-- when he wanted to. I kept trying to improve myself so that I would live up to what he expected of me. I was really scared at that point to find myself all alone. All our financial problems seemed overwhelming. When I was in bed that first night at the shelter, I realized that I could be happy with my son, even in a small apartment, as long as we could have peace and serenity.

I was right. Nothing that happened after that compared in difficulty to the ordeal of just trying to be good enough for him, worrying every day about bills (more about how he would react to the bills than to the actual debts themselves), my entire life centered around dancing to the tune of his demons.

All that time wasn't wasted. I have my son, a wonderful all-grown man now, who looks like his father, but does not relate to women in the same way. For his sake even more than my own, I regret not having left that marriage sooner. It would have meant less hurt for him.

I try not to believe that if I had left earlier, his father would be alive today. As you see, even today there are still traces of the guilt I lived with back then.

By the way, I've been remarried for 9 years now to a wonderful man. I never suspected that life could be this simple.

BTW, I've been lurking here for a while and never posted. One of my friends gave me this address so that I could stay aware of what was going on with their couple. I just felt an overwhelming urge to tell you, KMEJ: You are stronger than you think. Things in abusive relationships like yours and mine do tend to be like a downward spiral-- there are some good bits, but the bad get more and more frequent. If you leave him now, the hardest part will be behind you, believe it or not.

Be very very careful. <hugs to you and your tornadoes>

I haven't even read the rest of the posts, as when I got to this one...**I** got mad!

Ok...first of all...YOU are mowing the lawn? You asked your H to put the kids to bed because YOU were going to go MOW THE LAWN and he GOT MAD AT YOU <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

KMEJ...What are you DOING??? Come on...OPEN YOUR EYES! This man is NOT a HUSBAND...HE should be mowing the lawn...NOT YOU! Does he clean the house for you while you are doing this?

This man does not love you! He not only Verbally and emotionally abuses you, but he is Physically abusing you as well!

You are sooo young...My God, I didn't have my first child til 27...My life is beginning NOW...at 37...I dont have a job, I dont have any money...but I have 3 kids and I will get CS from my H when my D goes thru..

am I scared? a little...but I am HAPPY! I am happy cuz I WILL be better off without the daily disrespect from my H...

your H, in a lot of ways, is just like Ed...Ed would yell at the kids or tease them till they cried...did this all the time...I would beg for him to stop, but he still did it...they would cry and say STOP IT DADDY...but he would continue to tease tehm til they were in tears...then he would say "WHAT, they like it when I do that" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You H just as mine, has no respect for anyone except themselves!

I do hope that you will wake up one day KMEJ! I am telling you to get a divorce...Get to a lawyer NOW...

Oh, I also wanted to coment on the BF thing...My H still says stuff like that to me...but yet, it is OK for him to have his GF...get out...it is NOT a marriage! I hope you do realize that one day...this is NOT what marriage is like! I have witnessed good marriages in the past two months and now realize what I have missed all this time...

WOW! Thanks for sharing that deepblues! That is remarkable! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Please listen to this KMEJ! YOU and you boys will be FINE without that man...it is much more HARMFUL for them to witness the abusiveness than it is for you to be POOR!

KMEJ - WHo the h*ll do you think you are to say something like this:

How will this scenario help your 3 tornadoes!!!!

You do have somewhere to go. You just won't follow through because it requires you to get off the pity pot of trying to make your husband into something he's not. While your children run the risk of witnessing their mother's murder and her father's suicide, like an 8 year old girl in Salt Lake City did two weeks ago... You want that for your children?

Don't want life in a shelter? Oh gee! Let's take on the alternative!

Oh my %*%&^&Y What is it going to take to get you off this pity party roller-coaster ride? You are NOT going to make your husband into a kind gentle considerate MAN - this excuse for humanity has a maturity factor zero!!!!

And you? I could just shake you for having this attitude! I'm a child of violence! My mother was beaten in front of me time and time again. And as a full grown adult, I'd now slap her silly myself to get her to wake up!

Get a clue! Do the mother thing - what ever it takes. and do it NOW

Oh My GOSH! I have not been this angry in a long time!

Peace OUT!

As long as you take it, you harm them. You cannot be a victim and escape the harm YOU do to them by passively taking it.

Post deleted by KMEJ

KA, your anger is why its so hard for me to read KMEJ's sitch.

I see a smart, beautiful woman who lays down to be [censored] on and abused time after time because she thinks she deserves no better.

I'm not sure 'slapping silly' is a great repsonse to an abused person (;)) but I share your frustration.

I see from KMEJ excuses not reasons for inaction. As if enduring abuse or a battered wives shelter are the only two possible options for her.....

But in truth KMEJ has to want good for herself and her kids enough to take a step. None of us can intervene on her.

So we just pray.

Don't wait for it to be that bad.

I was a volunteer at the Woman's shelter for a couple of years once I had my life on track, and believe me, a lot of the women there didn't have it as hard as you, just looking at the bare facts of your story, KMEJ. Some had it worse, but that's not a reason for you to remain in that impossible situation, and to expose your boys to it. Don't you think that they can be afraid for you? Do they deserve that kind of pain and fear in their lives?

Post deleted by KMEJ

I used to rationalize that my mother did the best she could, given the situation.

Now I'm a mother and the tigress is alive in me. There is no freaking way on earth this stands as what's best for a child. A true mother is courageous - will endure any hardship, any indignity that she must to protect her little ones, even if it means separating them from one who pledged his love to her, while proving he cares nothing for the lives he brought into this world.

KMEJ - The tigress must awaken in you. And you say how others have it so much worse than you... Ask them what they think of your story and they'll drop their jaws at how much you are enduring. A little perspective dear. Stop comparing. Yours is as bad as it needs to be for the tigress to take action to protect her babies.

Or you are the coward my mother was - especially when she ran away from a violent man while leaving her children in the home with a boozing, raging DRUNK!

A true mother is courageous - will endure any hardship, any indignity that she must to protect her little ones

I truly believe that KMEJ is doing this with all the art she has. A person cannot behave in a way they cannot even imagine.

KMEJ has low self esteem and no tools for gaining such right now that I see.

Mice, even when they try hard , are still mice and cannot become tigers by will.

I believe KMEJ is being as brave as a frightened mouse can be. Its our job to ty to release the tigress only through the written word.

* KMEJ I see how patronising that read, PLEASE believe such is not my intent. I am just trying to convey that I do not believe you can imagine being strong enough to leave your WH *

Has he ever done harm to the boys? or is he just abusing you? If he is anything like Ed is, he will be a BETTER father when he is alone with them...

If you think that he will harm the boys after a D, then you get a restraining order against him and you have CPS evaluate him, his house and anything else...If they feel the need, he will have SUPERVISED visits with them...

Id ont know...it is hard to say...THAT is a hard call...I dont think Ed would ever hurt the boys, but who knows...

here is an example of the abuse he does...this past weekend, he had the kids for a few hours...he doesn't take them for long periods of time because 1. it gets in his way and 2. he cant handle them...anyway, they came home and DS6 says "daddy said he was kidnapping us" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> OH REALLY??? "but then he said he was just kiddiing"

you see, you just dont say things like that to kids! These men do not have the mental capacity to understand the meaning behind MENTAL ABUSE! THat will forever scar my kids now, becasue they will fear he will take them and kidnap them...and my H is 43 KMEJ! He is OLD and SHOULD know better!

You cannot keep the kids from their father...but you cant worry about THAT right now...if that is what is keeping you, stop it right now...Look at ME...I was just as you are not 5 months ago...I wanted for my BOYS...but I realized what was BEST for them was NOT staying married in a loveless abusive marriage...We have BOYS KMEJ...BOYS who are going to grow up to be MEN...do you want your BOYS to grow up and disrespect their GF or Wives...Look at them...if you leave they will have a GOOD role model...
I want my boys to look back at me and respect me for what I did...not look back and say "gosh, mom was so weak, she just took dad's abuse all that time"

OR, they can grow up and be just like their dad, as my H did...

I pray one day my boys will realize that what i did was the RIGHT thing...and I think they are realizing that NOW...Please dont stay for them...leave for them!

We can all 2x4 and just simply talk to KMEJ until we are all blue in the face.

We can give her suggestions, share our stories and post until this particular post reaches 1,000 pages.

The fact is...she will not do anything about her situation anytime soon....and her H knows this.

He should become a professional fisherman because he knows exactly how to reel her back in if she pulls the line to far out and he doesn't have control, and he catches her every time.

SHE ALLOWS THIS.

Although she has no control over her H, she DOES allow him to treat her in this manner.

She has been given many avenues of escape, but she holds on to the hope that her H will become a changed man. It won't happen.

When suggestions are made, she has an excuse as to why she can't do this or that...when in fact it all comes down to her not wanting to be alone and being scared that her H will be happier with someone else.

All the while putting her own happiness...and her childrens on the backburner.

She doesn't want to uproot her kids again because they like the neighborhood, but she also wouldn't be able to afford to keep the house on her own.

What's more importatnt. Liking where you live or feeling safe where you live? You kids WILL adjust to a new house and neighborhood.

She doesn't trust her H enough to have the kids on the weekends because of his temper tantrums.

When you speak to a lawyer you inform them that you want an evaluation done and possibly want supervised visitation. I'm not sure about your state but alot of states make parents that are divorcing go to parenting classes.

She's afraid that she will end up alone.

Would you rather be treated like this for the rest of your life? Walking on egg shells. Never knowing when the next tantrum is going to be.

If your boys somehow don't end up like your H they will be put in a much more dangerous situation. They will be put in the situation of feeling that they have to defend you....which could lead to ALOT more trouble.

She has 0 self esteem.

This will be the hardest thing of all to over come. KMEJ...your H is the ONLY ONE that believes the things he says to you and about you....other than you.

Deep down you know that this is true. YOU know what kind of person you are. YOU know what you can be and want to be. YOU know what you are capable of accomplishing.

YOU need to put your foot down and say....."I'VE HAD ENOUGH! YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF ME. I AM A BEAUTIFUL AND DESIRABLE WOMAN! I AM A FANTASTIC MOTHER AND I DESERVE TO BE TREATED LIKE THE EXCEPTIONAL WOMAN THAT I AM."

After you do this......find a sitter....and go dancing.

Quit sitting around waiting for the things and people around you to change and start making some changes yourself.

I can relate so well to how she feels! I was there just a few months ago...and Miss Priss, YOU are EXACTLY right...we can all post til our fingers bleed, but she will not LISTEN to us or do anything until SHE IS READY! i dont know if she will ever be ready...but there came a time in MY life when I said enough is enough...

I too was afraid...I too didnt' want to disappoint my boys...I too didnt' think I could live on my own...I too had all the emoitions as she DOES now...but the fact that I finally WOKE UP after many peopole on this board got so dam* frustrated with me, has made me look at other people and see what I went thru and how I was...I can see how frustrated people got...

We cant MAKE KMEJ do the right thing...SHE has to do...just as she cant CHANGE her H, but she thinks she can or she waits until he changes...

My H KNEW the MB principles and still was not WILLING to change...he would talk the talk, but not walk the walk...

It is hard for people to change...and unless he WANTS to change, he is not going to...

I feel for K, I want to help her, but until she wantst eh ehlp, she wont listen...I KNOW because I would come here and ask opinions, but would I listen...Yes, but not take the advice...i did what I WANTED to...but FINALLY I realized...I have got to get out of this situation...

In the long run, my boys will be BETTER off without us MARRIED...they will see us much happier alone than together...I know that now...Hopefully she will too!