I accidently "on purpose" overheard my mother-in-law and wife talking. My MIL told my wife that I am sneaky and that she should get a divorce. She also said that she should tell her attorney about my behavior (hiring private eye and checking on phone calls, "demanding" she find another job). She also said that she took a couple letters off of my desk at my home that I had written. I think the letters were questions I wanted my wife to answer or things that didn't add up that my wife claimed didn't happen, etc . . .

They talked about the OM and how he "really cares for her" and also about me being "dangerous". I guess she thinks I'm so depressed that I might take my families life. That's ridiculous!! I am depressed, but I'm not suicidal or crazy. During the conversation my wife said that she wished that I would just go ahead and file for the divorce. Her mom told her that would be the best thing and that they could live together and raise our daughter as a family.

I confronted my wife, she called me sneaky (for listening to their conversation) and denied that my MIL has said anything to her about her needing to file for divorce. She also said that she never said that she wished I would go ahead and file. Unfortunately, I know for a fact she isn't being truthful and that she did say this and much more.

I told my wife today that I would give her the divorce and that I am sorry for the past 6 months. That I was just hanging on and hoping that she would begin to work on saving our marriage. I didn't realize that she really wanted the divorce. I told her that I had tried to file a few times, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. She says she doesn't want a divorce, that she loves me, but needs me to get over the affair. She asked for me to at least not file today.

My MIL said some very hurtful things and has done some very damaging things. Part of our problems prior to the affair concerned my MIL's inappriopriate behavior. She would stop by our house 3 or 4 times a day, invite herself to dinner and vacations with us, she would get involved in every aspect of our relationship. She actually said that she viewed our daughter more as her own daughter than a grandchild.

Unfortunately there is more damage being done. I'm holding off filing today, but I really don't know why.

Grove, is there any way to move away from MIL? Boudaries, you and your WW need to set boundaries with MIL. {{grove}}

We moved last year about 20 miles away, it didn't help. My wife thinks I am the problem not her mom. She likes that she is so involved in her/our lives and can't understand why I don't feel the same way.

I sent a very nice letter to my MIL after we adopted our daughter saying that I loved her dearly, but that she was coming over to often and that I would like some time alone with my family. I didn't expect her to never come over, but every day was too much. It just caused more problems. FIL, MIL and wife thought I was being too possessive.

This is a no win situation. I was once very close to my in-laws, that changed after they did some uncaring acts towards my wife. She was hurt, but wouldn't say anything. I decided to get some distance from them. I think it alienated my wife and maybe was some of the cause for her affair. Since she didn't have her mom around as much, she found a new person to confide in.

I don't know how to handle this new information. Do I confront my wife about what was said? All I've done so far is bring up some general stuff that I could have gotten from a brief listening in. What I got was a full blown hate-fest, and my wife didn't disagree.

grove..my in-laws caused so much damage too. They had no life, no friends, no church and their relatives hated them so they had nothing better to do than cause problems. When I became pregnant on our 2nd anniversary, they told me I was no longer welcome in their home. They later tried to get me to come around but I was glad not to. He would take our daughter once a week to visit but eventually even he claimed it was too unpleasant. I think he secretly enjoyed that I could get the best of them by not participating in their tantrams, anger over inconsequential matters, and manipulations. When they realized how much they had screwed up, it was too late to repair the damage.

At their death, my stbx went "crazy." He had been so controlled by them and wasn't free to live his life, that it was as if he were a rubber band stretched so tightly that it flew off at a rapid rate of speed. He still suffers from their sickness so much that I can no longer be a part of his life. It's not healthy.

Looking back on it now, I wish I had made a stronger stand in the beginning. I tolerated so much when I should have said no. I realized what power they had over us was given to them. Your MIL has as much power as she is given too.

I loved being a mother and now that my daughter is approaching 20 and off to college, I fondly look back on those times raising her. I imagine your MIL feels the same and sees an opportunity to have two daughters back at home. ergo the comment about her grandchild being more her child. The next time she enters your home without announcing her visit or without an invitation, you need to polietly guide her to the door and tell her a visit at another time is more appropriate. You live in your home and those boundaries need respect. Unless she's on the deed, she's trespassing without permission. Inform your wife that if she (MIL) only has criticisms about you, it be best that she stay away. You can't have your child hear someone downgrade her father. That cruel.

Your wife may at some level appreciate you taking a firm stand. Her mother may be so overpowering and she feels still such a child, that she is helpless in standing up to her mother. If she's this controlling now, imagine how it was when your wife was growing up. That might explain her agreeing with MIL about divorce. It's an appeasement.

If she wants you to get over the affair, she's got a tremendous amount of work for that to happen. There's several posts around about Mulberry's counseling sessions. Find them and share them with your wife. I'm sorry and let's move on just doesn't get it. Both of you need IC and MC.

..after your post..

Wonder if it has ever occurred to them that if you did divorce there's a chance that you could get primary custody because of your wife's behavior and then how often would they see their daughter/granddaughter? Wednesday night and every other weekend are not much. Have they considered the fact that you might re-marry and the role your wife would play in this child's life. It seems as if they have not thought things through or taken the time to realize their involvement is making the sitation worse.

It seems quite a stretch that your wife had the A because your MIL couldn't come around as much. It's past time to grow up. She had you to confide in. It seems more a matter of character and looks as if the apple has fallen close to the tree. I can't imagine encouraging my daughter in an adulterous relationship or divorce from a faithful husband.

Get your counselor to help you set healthy boundaries.

Thanks jph,

Unfortunately my wife stopped going to counseling with me. She has scheduled and IC with the same counselor her mom recommended she go to.

Also, my wife just went out to my car and discovered a receipt for the recorder I used to tape the conversation her mother and her had. I feel like a jerk, and I feel very dirty for recording her conversation.

I think I'm just as bad as my wife now.

How dare you catch your lying, cheating wife plotting against you behind your back! How dare you protect yourself against your very destructive wife who lies and cheats and gives you veneral diseases. Shame, shame!

I bet you also think the FBI should feel dirty and ashamed for spying on drug dealers, right? How sleazy of them!

Grove.....you're doing the right things....your MIL needs to keep her nose out of this crap...really!!!!

*sigh* keep fighting the good fight hon.

-Caren

GT, all sarcasm aside, please stop with the inappropriate guilt mongering. You are in a fight for your marriage and family with a very destructive wife. You have to defend yourself from her. It is a VIRTUE to protect yourself from her shenanigans, not a bad trait.

No one has the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back. So please, let's use a little logic here and stop with the inappropriate guilt.

Thanks Caren and Melody,

I know that I am not completely wrong for trying to protect myself, but it still does feel dirty. I don't like the person this has turned me into. I wish just once I would do something sneaky and find something decent out or hear something positive.

My wife handled this very well. She hasn't yelled or been nasty. She said we've both lied and that she forgives me. She even said that she is sorry I had to hear that kind of stuff said about me and that I just caught her on a "bad day". I seem to catch her on a lot of bad days!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LOL

I'm still as lost as ever. She wants to sit down and talk tonight about the future. I'm not sure where this is going to lead.

Why does it feel dirty to protect yourself when you are under assault? Do you think the FBI should feel "dirty" when they tap the phones of drug dealers? Can we please use some common sense here, GT?

And what have you lied about? What have you done that would be morally equivalent to having an affair, lying, and bringing home an STD to your innocent spouse? What in the world do you need to be forgiven for, GT?

edited to tone it down!

as usual Melody is correct. Stop beating yourself up with false guilt. You are on a quest to save your family. Be sure to keep this recording in a place where she or your MIL can't find. You never know when it might come in handy...be it divorce or custody hearings...and don't make the mistake I did, when I thought we were in recovery I destroyed so much evidence because it haunted me. Keep it safe either in a safety deposit box or at a relatives's home.

I suspect your in laws may watch what they say from now on not knowing who is listening. Make them consider you instead of trying to dismiss you. They'll run over you if they think it is possible as will your wife. They aren't respecting your home, your position or your marriage. If they can't learn to respect you, then they need to stay out.

Don't allow anyone to manipulate you grove. You know what is right and stand for nothing less. Set the ground rules for this marriage. Insist on IC as well as MC and accountability. Insist that boundaries in your home be respected by your in laws. You and your wife need to bond together. The Bible says when we marry, we're to leave our mother and father to cleve with our spouse. Your wife hasn't left home and it's past time. Could that be why it may have been easier to have the A because the two of you weren't bonded together? Let that be your goal to become as one.

your preaching to the choir jph. i honestly have tried everything I know to get my wife to start being a little more considerate of my feelings and that her behavior is still causing us to be unable to move on to a loving productive marriage/relationship. I still love her, I'm not even angry anymore, just hurt. I can't understand why she wouldn't do everything possible to save our marriage, but she won't, so I'm left with a very tough situation.

Mel, I'm once again in your debt. I really needed your input and insight. I still feel dirty that I've resorted to such low tactics to find out what's going on in my marriage, but I appreciate your words! I was really down that I had no right to do what I did. Of course now I can't listen in anymore, but I at least know what my wife and MIL really thinks of me and our marriage. It's quite painful.

I'd like to suggest the book "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend.

Buy two copies one for you and one for your wife, also get yourself the work books on those and set up a time everyday to work on them together.

Thanks ThornedRose, I've been meaning to pick that book up. My wife will never read it. She just refuses to do anything like that. I was able to get her to listen to "His Needs/Her Needs" while driving in the car. Of course I had to take the initiative, but she at least listened.

This is getting a little ridiculous. My IC told me this week that he felt the marriage is probably beyond repair. He said there is just to much damage. When we started, he told me/us that he would be honest and if he felt at anytime that he couldn't help us, he'd let us know.

He doesn't buy into Plan A or B, but he's not a bad counselor. He's at least active in the process, unlike our first two. My wife stopped going with me about a month ago.

grove, your conversation about your MIL struck some chords with me. I wanted to ask you some questions about her. Is the FIL still in the picture and what kind of person is he? What is your MIL's relationship history with men and family? Is she a religious woman? What is her financial situation? If you get a chance then provide me with ths info. I might be able to give you some insight based upon my past experience with my MIL.

Mel,

Honestly what am I doing here? My heart won't let me leave, but my head keeps saying that I need to get out of this marriage as fast as I can run to the lawyer.

She gave me an STD and won't admit to it. She won't admit to anything that I can't prove and sometimes even when I can, she still denies it. The OM's live-in girlfriend claimed my wife followed her after d-day and also continued to contact the OM. My wife says that's crazy, but I'm not so sure considering that her best friend was calling him and she went cold/became distant around month 2 through 4. She won't find another job, she continues to do nothing but say that she's still "here". She claims she will never cheat on me again, but that doesn't mean much right now. Words are just that, words, I've been waiting for her to actually do something.

She claims she went to the counselor's in the beginning for me, she let's me know where she is at all times, but other than that, there's not much else. Is it wrong to expect your spouse to be loving and completely honest, especially after causing this kind of pain.

She just keeps lying Mel and it's driving me crazy. I'm not sure I can keep living like this, but I can't seem to find the strength to actually file for divorce.

Why am I staying????

Hey Bob,

Since this happened, my FIL has little to do with me. He is an attorney and went with my wife when she spoke to her attorney.

He has cheated on my MIL a few times in the past and I think he might be in an affair right now. We all know that something is going on (he's never home, goes out often, went on vacation without MIL). I talked to him a couple times, and he said that I needed to get over this and stop checking up on my wife. He also said that she was his daughter, so that's where his loyalties would lie. We were once very close, but that has changed in the past 4 or 5 years.

My MIL claims to be very religious, but does't go to church anymore. She is very manipulative and plays the sweet act in order to take advantage of people. She has no life outside of her kids and has caused damage to my BIL's previous marriage and his present relationship (of course no one in her family sees it that way). She doesn't understand boudaries. She hasn't worked the past 20 years, she stayed home after she had third child (she was in her late 30's, my wife was 15 yrs old). She babysits our daughter while we work (this was my wife's choice). Outside of the money we pay her to babysit, she relies on husband for money.

How are things going with you? The last I heard it sounded like things might be getting better.

grove, I thought your MIL sounded familiar to mine in many ways. My MIL claims to be very religious but she does actively go to church. However, her actions show otherwise. She also does not work. She stopped working many years ago because working caused her to have severe migraines. She has no friends and her family is her whole life.

She has caused us many problems because she thinks that her children can do no wrong. If one of her children killed a person in cold blood right in front of her, she would justify it in some way. My WW's brother's wife cannot stand her and has the luxury of living five hours away. We only live thirty minutes away. My sister-in-law is a mean person but set some good boundaries with the MIL because she told my WW's brother that she would take the kids and leave if his mother did not back off. They fear her and act accordingly even though they dog her behind her back.

When I recorded my WW for several months I heard all that I needed to know about the MIL. When my WW talked about the need to go on trips, the MIL told her that she would always keep the kids and "would always be her alibi". She knows that I heard this and this changed our relationship. She knows that I would not piss on her if she was on fire and that I have exposed her as the liar that she is. She only scurries around in the shadows now.

Unlike you, my FIL is the salt of the earth. They keep him in the dark about everything except how horribly I treat his daughter. Deep down he knows better or he would not act so nice around me. However, the MIL rules the roost and he is not really allowed to have an opinion. He and the MIL do not sleep in the same room as me and the WW do. The MIL tells everybody that it is because he snores but I know the real reason. I know that she closed the workshop when the last baby was born. He is the kind of man that can deal with it for the sake of the kids but I am not that good of a man.

As to my situation, my WW acts pleasant but everything is directed at everything but the real problem. She is just like your wife in that she refuses to address the A or show any repentence. She simply wants me to forget about it and never mention it again. We both know that this would be a fool's paradise because it would reinforce her perception that she did not do anything wrong. I would only be back where I am right now the next time that she gets mad or unhappy in the relationship. I am still giving her the ultimatum next month and either she comes clean or the D starts. I have thought it through repeatedly and I am very comfortable with my course of action.

I might be wrong but I would confront the MIL and discuss how a religious woman can support an A and why she does not go to church. I would shame her because she knows deep down what kind of person that she is. I would also have a similiar conversation with the FIL. Do not cower down to inferior people. You are just enforcing their behavior as being right. When my in-laws saw how I really felt as to them, our relationship changed for the better as to me.

I hope that your wife comes clean in your upcoming conversation and that you can begin the healing. My WW is not going to do that. I will be thinking about you and praying for your conversation to be all that you need it to be. Let me know what happens.

Thanks Bob,

When I first started noticing a change in my in-laws concerning how they were treating me and the affair I sent an nice e-mail explaining my concerns concerning their advise and also that what they were saying was counter productive to what our counselor was telling us and what many leading experts said should be done to rebuild a marriage after an affair. I sent them stuff from Surviving an Affair, Not Just Friends and The Monogamy Myth, it didn't help.

I thought about sitting down with them when I thought my wife was back in the affair, but I realized that they weren't going to be any help to me. Like you, their kids do no wrong. My brother-in-law smashed the car windows out with his ex-wife and kids in it, and they tried to blame ex-wife (wife at the time) for his behavior. FIL went to the sight and swept the glass to the other side of the street, which was in the other county and he knew the judge. BIL sells and uses MaryJane and they are aware of it. Right now he lives with parents because he doesn't want to pay rent. He was living with a woman, but once she started demanding he help pay the bills, he bolted (more to it than that, she wasn't perfect either).

I guess you get my point. Their kids do no wrong, it's always someone elses fault.