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I don't think "bashing" a crowd is the same thing as bashing a single person.

The entire gang against Coach.

Me against the entire gang.

And how did I do it in such a disrespectful and hurtful manner? Because I said some highly educated and some not so? That would be addressing the fact that people ranging from Doctorate degrees to average(or uwknown), regular folks all joined in the 'fun' of trashing this guy.

What else was insulting? Private ****? Ok... change it to private eyes. Either way, I don't really think anyone had irrefutable proof of anything.

Again, people jumped to conclusions. Because he is in some way related to a job at a newspaper, that makes his story fake. An embellishment. Do you know that without a doubt?

Frankly, it is bothersome that people can come to a website for support and this kind of 'ousting' can happen. The mob mentality.

Lets consider something. It seems a number of folks hold on to the 'biting incident' as proof of a hoax. Maybe she did bite him. Maybe she did draw blood. Was it some werewolf meets wayward wife deal? Probably not. If I was him, I would be in shock from my wife biting me. And if it drew blood, I might actually embellish the story unintentionally. Just from the craziness of it.

And just because someone has a trust issue(to which you are fully entitled to), that doesn't give people license to run around accusing people of just anything.

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I have a couple of questions:

Why the solicitation for "private" conversations with folks here? Openness and honesty would be preferable, I would think. You say, "there is no need to hide"...

Also, in this post, you speak positively about your wife... It's been my understanding that you are dealing with serious problems in your R. There is no hint of that in this post...

For example, in the PRESENT tense, you say:
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My wife and I write together…
Then you say:
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I don’t want to use my ICQ mail because at this point there are things I don’t want to share with my wife…like E-mail from MB.


This is not clear. Are you presently writing with your wife but not wanting to share info. with her?


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How about Coach being a human being like the rest of us? We all have our foibles; we all do things that might not be "perfect".

As for his contradictory info...heck the guy is going through some pretty heavy stuff and even I have trouble sometimes with making errors in how I portray my "stories especially under extraordinary stress. All of us has been there (yes, the WSs too); where even putting together a simple sentence takes extreme effort. Maybe he was typing and wrote down Larry instead of David bc he was thinking in the back of his mind that he ought to call Larry about his investments.

Coach, if you are reading this thread....whatever your story is the advice/support you have given to others here has been honest. That I can at least appreciate.

Respectfully,
AG

Edited to add: I went back at looked at the "Tangled Web" thread and I just wanted to add to the above that I think that after what many of us has gone through we just want to believe that those we find here are honest (isn't that something we all are searching for...some truth and honesty in all this infidelity mess). I lost faith in people for a long time, I used to think that most people were on the up and up; turned out H wasn't for a period of time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. I guess that is what stings for most of those who replied to that thread...illusions, deceit, falseness....we have enough of that in our "real-lives". It would sure be nice if we could have at least one place where we could trust and confide in others in an open and honest manner.


Last edited by A_Grace; 07/22/05 09:13 AM.

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Edited to add: I went back at looked at the "Tangled Web" thread and I just wanted to add to the above that I think that after what many of us has gone through we just want to believe that those we find here are honest (isn't that something we all are searching for...some truth and honesty in all this infidelity mess). I lost faith in people for a long time, I used to think that most people were on the up and up; turned out H wasn't for a period of time . I guess that is what stings for most of those who replied to that thread...illusions, deceit, falseness....we have enough of that in our "real-lives". It would sure be nice if we could have at least one place where we could trust and confide in others in an open and honest manner.


Exactly AGrace.

And then there is the whole problem of intent. Was there intent to deceive? In my own life, I can not come to terms with this in my mind regarding my exSO.

So to have to come to a conclusion on "intent" here, is just a dirty rotten shame.

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I, personally, was not bashing COACH, yet...

I did have those questions that I was wondering about..

He asked if we had questions...


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Well Weaver whether intent is there or not (I hope not - cuz I like to believe the best in people <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) lets look at the big picture...worst case.

Coach has been here for 3 years; he has given some pretty good advice/support.

Lets say one day he decides to make up a story or embelish one. MB members respond as best they can.

Ultimately what does he gain? Info to hold against others, a good story for a novel? A good example of the strength and compassion available here at MB? Unfortunately the thread got pretty low (justifiably or not) and that only speaks of the hurt that we all must feel when we feel duped as stated in previous email.

So what does he gain by making up an entire story? Intent usually is a result of perceived gain...I just don't see what Coach would gain.

I just hate it when this happens here...every 6 months or so. Makes me wonder who is real.


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Maybe I am more flexible in believing folks' stories. My own, lets not forget , has been a real soap opera.

Betrayal, criminality, tragic premature death, suicide attempts...

OK so since them many MBers have gotten to know me OFF the boards but at the time nobody called me out on MY sit and that was true - every word, however preposterous.

And the help he gave people was real, regardless of his undisclosed stuff.


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Patriot et al.,

Patriot, be fair. At the time we posted, it looked like yet another person had run a scam on us, and, after getting his jollies, scampered off with his possible accomplices. We never thought we'd hear from him again, and were left with feelings ranging from amusement to betrayal. (And why did you wait for "12 pages of childishness" or whatever before posting your criticism?)

Did we jump to a conclusion? Obviously, as it still isn't clear what has happened, and whether the conclusions we jumped to are correct or not.

That doesn't condone my own posts or anyone else's -- but it does provide some context. I think, in light of Coach's post on this thread, we are all taking a deep breath, stepping back, and waiting a bit -- as we should have done yesterday.

Have I learned anything from this? You betcha.


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Stefan,
Thanks so much for your kind interest. If you've recently read some of the posts on my thread, then you know that there seems to be some questions as to my veracity...the question being posed is… am I legitimate...or have I make up all of this stuff to get attention? LOL. In fact this doesn’t seem to even be in question…but a universal decision made. So be it.

Anyway, if it’s OK with you, Stefan, I’m going to post this entire E-mail to the site…so that I don’t have to write and re-write another post.

It seems to me that folks are some how offended by my writing style…apparently feeling that I write to much like a storyteller or some such thing. Either that or it’s my approach to analyzing my own life that people find offensive. In any case, that and my seemingly peculiar hobby…have caused conclusions to be drawn as to my veracity.

Also, I’m sure that some of information that I’ve imparted may seem to be inconsistent or possibly I’ve contradicted myself from time to time…but what the heck…with so much going on in my life…I shouldn’t have to apologize for that…and I wont

Also, when posting, I find that I’m kind of writing as if it’s to a diary...and I’ve got a blog now by the way…which is just that…(never did that before…used a diary) and many of my posts come out of that blog…so in many cases I’m asking myself out loud if you will…the questions in my mind. Seeing them expressed in this way…it kind of gives me a flavor for them…but at the same time seems to cause consternation in those that are reading.

But that doesn't answer the question at hand...am I making all this stuff up…to get attention for myself or to hoax you all or for what ever reason or motive that any one can think of?

The question seemed to have been raised when some one suddenly “discovered” an E-mail account I have at ICQ...and proceeded to read my profile...which they found questionable.

I explained what I felt needed explanation last night...but truly...in this kind of situation people will believe what they choose to...

I thought about this last night and still have trouble thinking of any profit to myself for doing what people are so willing to believe that I’ve done. Be that as it may, I’m posting this, this morning...probably my last post for quite a while...but not for the reasons others here will want to attribute to me in terms of motivation. But more about that at the end.

This post is intended to address the greater issue…which to me is trust. We learn so much here at MB…yet…do we ever really learn anything?

From where I'm sitting, my current position on this board is giving me the almost exact same feeling as that which I got when I found out about my wife…yet again. What’s happening to me here…well it truly feels like infidelity.

And if you think about it...its not such a far-fetched analogy. The people I love and trust have turned on me...with what to me feels like a betrayal of trust. I have opened my self up to people in a way that I never have to any one…only to be told that’s what happening now is my fault. And like a cheating wife, people here now seem to feel that they have a license to defame my character…and make disrespectful judgments...hello MB principals!?

And this is all based on what? A profile in ICQ…that I never wrote by the way...in that this is an E-mail account that my wife and I share...and in that she is the ICQ person…(with a questionable sense of humor for sure)... not me! Or that some one now tells me that I am in some group…on ICQ…LOL And most will believe ill of me because they choose to…They will believe that this post is about me making an excuse to avoid blame…me not being willing to own up or accept ownership for my own faults and misdemeanors…that I’m lying…

But for what reason I wonder does any one think that I would lie…about any of this?

Funny that folks think that the ICQ thing is some huge disclosure...in that this is the E-mail address on my profile...for all to use and see...at MB. I have never tried to hide it…never…so what was the big secret I was hiding? LOL The fact that one of my hobbies is writing erotica in partnership with my wife…(my wife’s description not mine) to post on the Internet? As if to say that I'm a pornographer LOL. Or that I’m practicing my less then considerable skills her at MB? But why would I? This is just so dumb...it defies logic…

The E-mail account under discussion, by the way, was the one I used when I re-registered to MB after the big up-grade snafu. And if I had known that my own marital situation would come to be what it now is…I would never have used an account that she has access to as well…or uses more then me.

As to the infamous Munchausen’s reference…all I can do is laugh…but not AT anybody except maybe myself…but it’s the incongruity of it all that’s really funny! This is the third time I’ve ever posted (started a post) on this site…in over 7 years…3 times I have started a post…some attention seeker I am! LOL

And my entire personal and business life? I’ve spent them trying to fly under the radar…always avoiding attention, LOL…mostly because I am more then a bit shy…And I’m not offended by the assessment…truly I’m not…what I am is hurt…but only because I think so much of the person who wrote the post…and I’ve never made any secret of just how much I respect that person…so Pep, if you ever come to read this…all I can say is that you thinking that I am such a reprehensible and dishonest person…that truly does smart more then a bit…honest…I’m just not that smart…glib or…to be frank…sick. So for you and you alone…her it is…the only concession I’ll make…this once I’ll sacrifice my dignity to deny what is being said about me… I am not the person you now think me to be. I have lied about nothing…my life at the moment…is unfortunately what I have written it to be…

I have to say in fact that there are many of you whose current judgment of me I find more then a bit painful…very cynical…But I truly don’t believe I can or have changed any one’s mind about anything…not with what I wrote last night or what I’m writing here. I kind of think that everybody’s mind is made up about me…Because for some reason, that is what you folks want to think.

Last night a few of you posted back…some were very kind…Ms Martin…thank you for your faith in me. I truly appreciate your kindness…but more then appreciate it…I value it! Your simple little post last night…your simple expression of faith…I will never be able to adequately express how you gifted me…Not because the issue under discussion is anything very important…because people it really isn’t…but ML…your expression of confidence is worth the total experience…it is rear that any of us are given that kind of affirmation…so to receive it at all…no matter what the circumstances may be…is a huge gift. Thank you so very much.

Others also posted me back…some in outrage on my behalf…Patriot…thank you…from the bottom of my heart…thank you…Others posted… asking further evidence of good faith…or more tangible proof, LOL And I say this now…in the light of this new day…I wouldn’t give it if I had it or could give it! Not now…not ever…not for any reason. Believe what you will…I have lied about nothing! And I will not apologize for anything…Further…I have never done anything… to any one here… other then offer advice and affection. Expect no further explanations from me about anything! Just know this…would be to God…that you who are questioning me…had hands half as clean.

And by the way…one of you wanted to see wedding pictures…LOL…as proof! But sure…I have only the one’s that I took right now…the others won’t be ready till there ready, LOL…photogs are very independent for some reason…soooo….I need to figure out a way to post some…I will be back to do just that…if nothing else.

Now it’s time to end all this. I am comfortable with things being what they are…I have disappointments for sure…huge disappointments…but I’ll live with them…as well as with the regrets…But it has occurred to me that I am finished in this place no matter what…But not because of this current upheaval…

The fact is that I was finished in this place as soon as I posted my own personal story and asked for support. And please understand what I am saying here. This is not about me lying or making up my story…It’s about that I posted it at all…It was at that point I was finished. I was finished because I forgot my role…I forgot who I was in this place and what my intended responsibilities to you all really were. After all…how could it be…that I might be fallible…in pain…or need help?

How could this be if I was to ever again provide advice and support to any one…what authority could my opinions and feelings have…to any other?…Any advice I now could offer would always be suspect…forever questioned and colored by my own pain and my own experience with a WW who cheated on me for yet a second time. Who could now believe in my objectivity? How in fact can I be objective? Am I right, 2 Long old buddy? Even now you question my sincerity because of what?…That I write what my wife calls erotica? So…how worthy could I be?

So this thing that’s happened? It’s not all that terrible in it’s ultimate result…it’s only terrible in its unfairness,..in the hurt I feel and in it’s injustice…but that’s not any one’s problem…or concern…just mine!

The less charitable among you will assume that I am running away…from facing up to what ever they think I should be facing up to…others will of course just not care…others yet, will be pleased…that they have driven off another infidel…some one they deem not worthy…

As for me…I still like you all…that’s my choice to make and I’m happy to make it…more then that I wish all of you peace and happiness…I truly do…please believe that because to not believe is to deny love and good will…and those are two things that our world can never have enough of.
Coach

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Who knows what to think? My first post stated I was "confused" about the description given on icq. Nothing more.

Today, I remain puzzled that anyone's spouse would write a description of their mate that sounds like a cheesey singles advertisement. One that makes it appear the spouse is looking for love.

It just seemed incongruent to me and I wondered what others would conclude. I sat on the info for over a month.

I wish Coach well.

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I have a question for cameo33.

You registered yesterday. At the time I have posted this, you have a sum-total of 2 posts. You sat on this 'information' for a month. Your contributions to the MB forum have ended up inciting contempt for one of its rather long-term members.

Who are you and why are you here? Do you have an infidelity in your life you wish to discuss? Possibly a secret you are hiding from your spouse and you are looking for a way to get it out?

Or was coach just unlucky? Or is there more to the reason you sat on some bit of 'pivotal' info for a month and then flashed it out yesterday? Any time to tell your story here?

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I feel badly that you would stop contributing and sharing your story here but for the postings of a few.

None of us want to feel like we've been duped. None of us want to be made a fool of after having been betrayed so terribly by our spouses. I think that is where the quick reaction came from. I wish you would have posted back right after that person linked the ICQ instead of letting it get carried away.

None of us are perfect people..and without sin. We come from various walks of life, some with more imperfect pasts than others. Most of us are grownups but don't always act in such a way.

Leave if you must...but I wish you weren't. So many got so emotionally involved with your story and turmoil. It caused a bit of tension and worry when you didn't come back for 3 wks. Although, you never finished fully explaining your current plan of action with your WW, I think that may have been what lead to some of the confusion. It didn't make lots of sense without a better explanation...it didn't seem to fit with who you've been and the example you'd want to set for your kids and others. (shacking up with your WW???)

If you decide to leave...you know you are welcome to return anytime. Your positive history here speaks for itself.


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Coach,
I thank you for your explanation. I went back and re-read what happened and thought about my reaction, which was negative.

You mentioned that all were reacting badly to an e-mail address and I didn't understand what you meant at all. I certainly wasn't reacting to an e-mail address. The link I went to was a personal ad. So I thought. That is what it looks like! I don't have any idea what ICQ is...I thought it was a personal ad and that made me hopping mad...as, of course, it would not jive with the story we were reading for 30+ pages. I could not possibly trust a person telling a story such as yours and then see him in a personal ad. That was what I thought I saw.

What is ICQ? And if just an e-mail address, why the personal info online? And, I'm even more confused if your wife did indeed do that for you.

I'm still unclear and unsure about the whole thing...


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ICQ is a chat program. You download it, get an ID and start chating.

What he has done by joining ICQ and posting some personal information on the ICQ pages is like joining Yahoo.com to get an ID for the messenger program. You can put your personal info on Yahoo also.

Yahoo is not a dating/singles site.

Niether is ICQ.

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Ok...I'll bite.

Yes, with me, it was your writing style. You seemed to be "spinning" instead of simply "sharing" your story. Had I know that this was going to be a place for you to have just another blog, I would not have offered anything to you.

Your agenda is apparent to me now. You were not looking for anything FROM posters here...except the desire to have them read your "blog". Which is what they are all about anyways...right?

So, your writing demonstrated a few off putting things.

1. Pretention....how many times do you need to tell people how much money you spent on this or that...how much it costs a night to stay where you are staying...how you picked up the tab for an impromptu dinner party of 14. See where I am going with this? When you mentioned the amount of that "bar tab" I couldn't help but think it was a vulgar display of some preconceived status of wealth. How many people on this site are posting that they don't know how they will be feeding their kids because their H/W has left and not helped with support. It was tacky and insensitive to say the least.

2. Entertainment... You make comment about coming back and maybe having something amusing to report...like it is ALL about entertainment with you here. Got to keep the crowd begging for more.

3. Embelllishment...the bite thing alone was enough to make people start questioning. You talked of her nearly tearing out hunks of flesh...blood in her mouth...all over her face and teeth...biting into muscles and ligaments...needing stitches....BUT...she really showed you how much she loved you by tearing your flesh. (hmmm...sounds a little bit like some erotica there..huh?)

4. Plotting...Your plots and plans of humilation and destruction. While all the time, you claim that you are a man of honor and integrity...it didn't wash with me.

Those are just a few of the things that had me puzzled (besides the "shrug" thing.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />).

Again, had I known that your agenda was NOT wanting anything other to simply post your blog here, I would not have pointed out the things that I did.

I can imagine that these will be my last words on any of your threads...I don't contribute to blogs.

Blog On.

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Coach said:

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We learn so much here at MB…yet…do we ever really learn anything?


This really disturbs me. It is insulting and demeaning to us all....

Last edited by mimi1254; 07/22/05 01:36 PM.

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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Ooops...

Thanks Mimi

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He may have been referring to the all DJ's that he got and the quick rush to judgement before an explanation or even a logical discussion of all the 'facts'.

Some of it may be due to our own PTSD.

Last edited by Trix; 07/22/05 01:41 PM.

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I dunno. I still don't believe Coach's situation is real.

I did not post on Coach’s thread until right near the end, and about his outrageous D arrangement (downright sitcom, if you ask me) because it was all too dramatic and look-at-me sounding from the beginning.

Now I wish I had never posted on it at all. There are already way too many lies, deceit and half truths in my life.

I'm sorry. Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck....


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OK, Coach, I didn't think too much about the "shrug" thing, because I figured your wife would have told you that is what it was called.

The bite=passionate love rationalization really bothered me.

The changing of names really aroused my suspiscions, although I was too mired in my own personal issue that night to realize what was bugging me about your story.

The ICQ profile does look like an ad generated to get women to respond to you.

So, please understand that WE felt betrayed, as well.

If I was wrong to doubt you, I apologize, and I hope you can find understanding as to how we were able to jump to conclusions.

That being said, the erotica writing doesn't bother me a whit. I have no judgment against you because of that, but I do have to wonder if your jointly writing erotic fantasies has had a negative impact on your marriage.

It would seem to me that just WRITING erotica is no longer enough for your wife...that she has to LIVE erotica.

And, again, if your wife stayed out all night with the professor, you can bet your boots they had sex.

And, the divorce but living together idea? Sorry, but I don't see how that could possibly make her work on your relationship. She would just work harder to keep you from finding out next time, and if you do...so what? She'll figure that you'll take her back again.

Oh...and your wife writing your ICQ profile? That looks to me like an attempt on her part to put YOU in the situation to have an affair...and create even more drama, not to mention a way to justify her cheating.

Last edited by Lady Clueless; 07/22/05 02:27 PM.

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