I have not had time to read all the posts…on my basically one and only thread…I’ll get to that tomorrow…the specifics etc…but I did want to write a few words to all who chose to read this…concerning feelings that I am now or have been duping people,…posting fiction or being in any way dishonest about what is going on in my life,…The things that I’ve been describing, or about where I live and who I am are all real and are all happening…take my word or don’t take my word…of course it saddens me to be suspected of something like this but be that as it may…

First, in that it seems to be a matter of concern, I indeed have a profile and E-mail address as **edit**�a fact by the way I’ve certainly never tried to hide from anybody for any reason. It’s the E-mail address listed on my profile here MB. It’s always been available to anybody who wanted to use it…

I’ve never felt the need to hide from any one…especially here…In fact there are those at MB who have on occasion posted to me to not only ICQ E-mail but to my office E-mail at the Tribune Company…though I don’t encourage the use of the Tribune address in that it’s a business E-mail provided by my company for business and they don’t like our system to be used for personal reasons.

My ICQ address is little used…it’s one that I used to share with my wife. In fact she wrote my profile and posted my picture or pictures…I’m not sure if there are ore then one. I always kind of liked the profile she wrote for me…although I never use ICQ and know very little about it. When I have to check my mail I get strange signals and sounds from the IM system and I never know how to respond. So I basically only open it once in a while...to check mail. I also have IM with MS and don’t work that unless I have a specific reason to use it with some one.

As for my hobbies…it seems that folks are upset about the fact that I write erotica on the internet. While it’s not something I discuss with every one it’s also not something I’m ashamed of. My wife and I write together…she is the real writer…I am just a business writer but working to be better. The stuff we write is not pornography. It is more about romantic encounters and takes the form of short stories. While we describe graphic love scenes, we don’t use classic 4 letter words…I reserve the use of that kind of language for business, thank you very much.

And no I will not give up our pen name but the site we post to is a news group; one of the Usenet alt. sites that are moderated. It’s free and it’s fun and if it offends any one I frankly don’t give a damn. We write together for fun and because it’s something that we do together; and yes we keep it private. We don’t choose to share this with people that we know and who know us…to be honest…its because most people are not mature enough to simply leave it alone…they always want to make more of it then what it really is…just a hobby.

As for my profile on ICQ, I re-read it and thought it was pretty nifty…and since it was my wife that wrote it and posted it…and since she uses ICQ and I don’t…I suppose she enjoys it…I never received a funky E-mail from any weird strangers so I guess it can’t be to harmful. And yes by the way, I do like to have my body rubbed…although I don’t know why she needed to share that with the whole world.

Another disclosures that you folks might find interesting. Four years ago I took a 2 year part time course at a local school down here (no not Harvard and that’s for sure) in a thing called “Life Counseling.” It’s something I do in association with my local Synagogue. For me it’s something I feel good doing it and that’s all. It was after I started council ling, that I came back to MB…over 4 years ago now.

If any one has any private questions for me or feels they want to some how find out something more about me or my life…feel free to e-mail me, **edit**. In fact, should some one feel the desire to chat, I will be glad to make a telephone number available as well. If anyone feels that I have been dishonest then e-mail me or ask for a phone number and let’s talk. I don’t want to use my ICQ mail because at this point there are things I don’t want to share with my wife…like E-mail from MB.

I hope this clears up some things. If not then all I can say is I’m sorry to have people being so suspicious of me…and thinking so badly of me. ..but that’s not something I have no control over…I just want any and all who read this to know that I have always offered advice with a full heart and good will. That I am experiencing problems in my life right now that folks tend to think is so strange as to be fiction…well all I can say is read some interviews with Carl Hiaasen (Spelling? I’m sorry). He writes for the Herald down here and is a novelist as well. His views on fact and fiction got him a spot on 60 minutes.

Fiction cannot sometimes compete with reality…and that’s the saddest truth of all.
Your friend, in spite of what you think.
Coach

Okay, I'll play. I trust you, Coach, because I want to trust you and believe you -- and ask your forgiveness for being so suspicious.

So how about the ICQ group, Unhappy Married People seeks More. Did your wife set this up as well? I also found you on ICQ when in the beginning you had written that you journal in a blog. I looked for your blog and found the ICQ sites. I did not out you because a. I am a BIG lurker, B. I thought you might be for real and would get exactly the reaction that you see today.
I am thinking that you do have real marital troubles. But I was thinking this past month, What is with this guy??? He joins Unhappy Married People seeks More.... a few years ago. So you are not as noble as you trump yourself up to be. If your story is true.... Are you better than WW posting to these groups? Or does it just piss you off that she would do it too?
http://www.icq.com/groups/group_details.php?gid=11990334 Edited to add, you can find coach on page 9 of full members list.

I tell you what could clear up just a few things.

How about posting a few wedding pictures ~ one of you with your wife in her black dress and hot pink shrug.

or the wedding party...etc.

Then we can go from there.

After all, if you are a man of your word, you must be anxious to prove it.

Susan

Okay, well, there still may be more than meets the eye going on. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt. Even though I did that for my FWH more than I should was good for my own health with his main A.

I want to believe you are who you say and are sincere. It is hard to believe you'd be here for so long then start such an elaborate and cruel ruse.

Good idea, Susan.

regardless of if you are telling the truth or not, coach I really only have a few things I want to say.

What a crock of ****. A fair number of regulars and not so regulars posted on your other thread to belittle, insult or otherwise joke about you, your posts and your situation. I wonder what secret emails of predisposed guilt and scandalous prose are running around about me.

Frankly, I am bothered by the quickness with which the 'mob mentality' ran amuck about some situation that no one even bothered to ask you about, honestly, before around 12 pages of childishness.

People ranging from highly educated to not so appearantly tossed all that out the window and became internet private **** today. All pros... all of them. And at your expense. Maybe you deserved it.

Maybe you didn't.

Who knows... you couldn't get a word in edgewise with all that crap.

If your story is true, I'm really sorry that you had to endure that crap.

If your story is not true, I still wonder what the payoff was for the fine posters that followed cameo?? Junior High School nostalgia?

Anyway, now that I have made myself an enemy of everyone here... oh well. What I saw was childish and insulting. And even IF people think they have a right to be angry at you, why can't they just say that and be done with it.

You know at a wedding that elaborate, there were tons of pictures taken.

So, here is his opportunity.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Anyway my dear H. is saying from his recliner "I wanna see that shrug!" LOL

Okay, patriot. I will say I'm angry with coach. I posted on Idiotville (you ought to check it out sometime) 2 months ago that I thought coach's thread was a scam.

It amazed me because coach always gives out such good advice, but then seemed to get into this terrible situation.

The biting thing did it for me. I even asked folks on I'ville to give it a try. Jump on your spouse and bite them on the back, and see if blood is running over your face. Sadly, no one would try it.

O.K., Coach! Posting some wedding pics would be a good idea.

Also, why did your new son-in-law's parents' names change from "Donna and David" to "Donna and Larry"?

Well, I, for one, will concede Patriot's point. Whether Coach is "real" or not, I've deleted my posts on the other thread in the interest of fairness.

We've had fakers on here before, and I just assumed this was a guy who legged it out of town and we'd never hear from him again. It's not fun being hoodwinked -- most of us on here know that -- but that's no excuse for meanness.

I can be sharped tongued, and it's easier to say a word than retract it. And I'm too quick on the trigger...or keyboard...sometimes. I'd rather err on the side of kindness, if I have to err at all.

Interesting.

Well, coach, in spite of how I reacted on your other thread (patriot, I'll deal with you shortly), I still think you're "real", whatever that is.

Patriot:

I've read posts from coach for 3 years or so now with great interest. Even more lately because he revealed himself 2 have life coaching experience of some kind, and because he addressed my sitch so eloquently a number of times in a very helpful manner. His recent travails, in particular, were helpful 2 me precisely because I felt I DID understand them (hence my numerous one-liners prior 2 2ay).

...and it is precisely because I felt so much empathy with coach that I was so shocked at the "evidence" revealed 2day. And now coach's own admissions... ...and the ICQ "unhappy marrieds" NG.

At any rate, coach is human. He's not "done" anything substantially worse than many MBers here over the years I've been around, who still get treated with compassion in spite of their infractions. But I rightly or wrongly hung a lot of my hat on the things coach said 2 me, and so I'm still rather pissed off. Sorry if that offends. I 'spect I'll get over it.

By the way, I like my double decker poodle sausage sandwiches with mustard, onions, and vine-ripened tomatos... ...unless Jake is real, in which case I'll repsect his right not 2 be made in2 a meal and wish him well...

-ol' 2long

So Coach, what are the correct names of your son in law's parents? How long have you been married, 27 or 29 years? Which is it.... you have posted both.

Sorry, but you've tainted the well of credibility to the point of no return for me. There will always be those who take a sip of suspicious looking water but you know Coach, I'm not one of them. Good luck with your *life*. KB

Well, not sure what all the hoop-lah is all about.

Not really sure that I want to know.

I opened this thread, Coach, because virtually everything that I've read from you has been bang-on, solid advice. Of all the folk here on MB, you are top of the list of people to whom I'd go for advice.

So whatever. You could be a 650 pound transvestite living on the south pole for all I care. Your words are wise and your input is appreciated.

You rock.

dewt

Ps... if you ARE a 650lb transvestite... please DO NOT post your wedding pictures....

Welcome to the internet everyone. WYSIWYG.
100% potentially factual. 100% potentially bullsh*t.

Yikes Patriot, a little nastiness going on in this little post by you too, don't you think?

A bit of stone throwing of your own?

Coach, sometimes people "slip" and reveal their true feelings. So I guess I'll just join the ranks of those not "mature enough" to tolerate "everything and anything goes" simply because YOU decide that anyone who might be in disagreement with you is "immature."

No, it's more an issue, as revealed by this self-serving and self-justifying statement, that you consider yourself "superior" to everyone who does not think it's right for you to do whatever you want to do simply because YOU think you should be able to DO whatever you want to do.

Succinctly, your "moral set" is NOT my moral set, if that is how you view everyone else.

You can spout all the "good sounding advice" you want, but the bottom line is that you are condescending at best and a "wolf in sheep's clothing" at worst with that attitude.

Now, keep in mind that I do NOT read Idiotville, have not read your "other thread," and am reacting solely to what you posted here. But that is enough for me. As with most prevarications, sooner or later the truth sneaks out and the "Emperor's clothes" get seen for what they really are.

Your justification and excuse that you "don’t choose to share this with people that we know and who know us…because…they always want to make more of it then what it really is…just a hobby" is just an indication that, similar to so many Wayward Spouse's, that you try to excuse your behavior even though you know what you are doing is not "okay" with most people. You use "humanistic reasoning" to justify doing whatever it is you want to do. So tell me, have you stopped beating and biting your wife yet?

Oh well, just another "immature" person asking, so feel free, in typical elitist fashion, to carry on as you see fit.

Now, how DO you sign that register so others who know you will be "fooled," Mr. and Mrs. Inafog?

you imply I am a hypocrite because I speak up about something I saw as wrong?

Let's see the facts. You have an ICQ page and Literotica.com... where an account named coach3530 has never posted. Not once. Not that writing erotica short stories automatically makes someone a WS anyway or of low moral fiber... but whatever.

I have 12 or so pages of flaming someone on the internet, where 'regulars' jumped into the mob along with a large number of other people.

I don't see the likeness. It seems to obviously require more investigation to crucify coach.

The flamers, however, really don't need to be asked anything. They kinda got to say their's...

So, if you think I am throwing stones.... please explain. I would be more than happy to talk about it.

I would say that bashing posters for bashing a poster, is a little hypocritcal, yes. And the hurtful and disrespectful way that you did it is the same thing you are complaining about, no?

Everyone processes info differently, everyone reacts to things differently and those who did have some emotional investment in that thread were bound to be upset at the realization that all was not true.

Writing erotica for ones hobby was not the issue. I doubt anyone really cares about that.

Most of us here have been betrayed, and trust is a HUGE issue.

A little compassion goes along way, for all your fellow MB'rs and not just for the one you feel got bashed.

So many have said in the past how much they respected, admired and valued Coach's advice yet at the first chance you lynched him without first treating him with respect and simply asking him for an explanation. If the posters who bashed him were truly utilizing the MB principles which may apply to all relationships in your life - you would have held back your LB's and put him in a safe position to tell you the truth. It doesn't seem many have really learned anything from thiw web-site - now think back to why your here to begin with and see if you have treated people in your life this way before - not many will be completely honest if they are not in a safe place. Some people here jump to conclusions, create their own scenarios for lack of information only to later find they were dead wrong - they hurt people in the process. I give Coach a lot of credit for even writing back to any of you.

Now say his story is embellished - so what - he has helped many and you all did become "hooked" on his posts and got something out of it. Now say it's true - he must be feeling like he has lost the support system he was relying on while going through this terrible time.

I hope everyone here really takes a look at how they handle controversy in their lives, start applying some of the things you have learned in this web-site about relationships and work towards being more open and caring.

I don't think "bashing" a crowd is the same thing as bashing a single person.

The entire gang against Coach.

Me against the entire gang.

And how did I do it in such a disrespectful and hurtful manner? Because I said some highly educated and some not so? That would be addressing the fact that people ranging from Doctorate degrees to average(or uwknown), regular folks all joined in the 'fun' of trashing this guy.

What else was insulting? Private ****? Ok... change it to private eyes. Either way, I don't really think anyone had irrefutable proof of anything.

Again, people jumped to conclusions. Because he is in some way related to a job at a newspaper, that makes his story fake. An embellishment. Do you know that without a doubt?

Frankly, it is bothersome that people can come to a website for support and this kind of 'ousting' can happen. The mob mentality.

Lets consider something. It seems a number of folks hold on to the 'biting incident' as proof of a hoax. Maybe she did bite him. Maybe she did draw blood. Was it some werewolf meets wayward wife deal? Probably not. If I was him, I would be in shock from my wife biting me. And if it drew blood, I might actually embellish the story unintentionally. Just from the craziness of it.

And just because someone has a trust issue(to which you are fully entitled to), that doesn't give people license to run around accusing people of just anything.

I have a couple of questions:

Why the solicitation for "private" conversations with folks here? Openness and honesty would be preferable, I would think. You say, "there is no need to hide"...

Also, in this post, you speak positively about your wife... It's been my understanding that you are dealing with serious problems in your R. There is no hint of that in this post...

For example, in the PRESENT tense, you say:
Then you say:


This is not clear. Are you presently writing with your wife but not wanting to share info. with her?

How about Coach being a human being like the rest of us? We all have our foibles; we all do things that might not be "perfect".

As for his contradictory info...heck the guy is going through some pretty heavy stuff and even I have trouble sometimes with making errors in how I portray my "stories especially under extraordinary stress. All of us has been there (yes, the WSs too); where even putting together a simple sentence takes extreme effort. Maybe he was typing and wrote down Larry instead of David bc he was thinking in the back of his mind that he ought to call Larry about his investments.

Coach, if you are reading this thread....whatever your story is the advice/support you have given to others here has been honest. That I can at least appreciate.

Respectfully,
AG

Edited to add: I went back at looked at the "Tangled Web" thread and I just wanted to add to the above that I think that after what many of us has gone through we just want to believe that those we find here are honest (isn't that something we all are searching for...some truth and honesty in all this infidelity mess). I lost faith in people for a long time, I used to think that most people were on the up and up; turned out H wasn't for a period of time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. I guess that is what stings for most of those who replied to that thread...illusions, deceit, falseness....we have enough of that in our "real-lives". It would sure be nice if we could have at least one place where we could trust and confide in others in an open and honest manner.

Exactly AGrace.

And then there is the whole problem of intent. Was there intent to deceive? In my own life, I can not come to terms with this in my mind regarding my exSO.

So to have to come to a conclusion on "intent" here, is just a dirty rotten shame.

I, personally, was not bashing COACH, yet...

I did have those questions that I was wondering about..

He asked if we had questions...

Well Weaver whether intent is there or not (I hope not - cuz I like to believe the best in people <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) lets look at the big picture...worst case.

Coach has been here for 3 years; he has given some pretty good advice/support.

Lets say one day he decides to make up a story or embelish one. MB members respond as best they can.

Ultimately what does he gain? Info to hold against others, a good story for a novel? A good example of the strength and compassion available here at MB? Unfortunately the thread got pretty low (justifiably or not) and that only speaks of the hurt that we all must feel when we feel duped as stated in previous email.

So what does he gain by making up an entire story? Intent usually is a result of perceived gain...I just don't see what Coach would gain.

I just hate it when this happens here...every 6 months or so. Makes me wonder who is real.

Maybe I am more flexible in believing folks' stories. My own, lets not forget , has been a real soap opera.

Betrayal, criminality, tragic premature death, suicide attempts...

OK so since them many MBers have gotten to know me OFF the boards but at the time nobody called me out on MY sit and that was true - every word, however preposterous.

And the help he gave people was real, regardless of his undisclosed stuff.

Patriot et al.,

Patriot, be fair. At the time we posted, it looked like yet another person had run a scam on us, and, after getting his jollies, scampered off with his possible accomplices. We never thought we'd hear from him again, and were left with feelings ranging from amusement to betrayal. (And why did you wait for "12 pages of childishness" or whatever before posting your criticism?)

Did we jump to a conclusion? Obviously, as it still isn't clear what has happened, and whether the conclusions we jumped to are correct or not.

That doesn't condone my own posts or anyone else's -- but it does provide some context. I think, in light of Coach's post on this thread, we are all taking a deep breath, stepping back, and waiting a bit -- as we should have done yesterday.

Have I learned anything from this? You betcha.

Stefan,
Thanks so much for your kind interest. If you've recently read some of the posts on my thread, then you know that there seems to be some questions as to my veracity...the question being posed is… am I legitimate...or have I make up all of this stuff to get attention? LOL. In fact this doesn’t seem to even be in question…but a universal decision made. So be it.

Anyway, if it’s OK with you, Stefan, I’m going to post this entire E-mail to the site…so that I don’t have to write and re-write another post.

It seems to me that folks are some how offended by my writing style…apparently feeling that I write to much like a storyteller or some such thing. Either that or it’s my approach to analyzing my own life that people find offensive. In any case, that and my seemingly peculiar hobby…have caused conclusions to be drawn as to my veracity.

Also, I’m sure that some of information that I’ve imparted may seem to be inconsistent or possibly I’ve contradicted myself from time to time…but what the heck…with so much going on in my life…I shouldn’t have to apologize for that…and I wont

Also, when posting, I find that I’m kind of writing as if it’s to a diary...and I’ve got a blog now by the way…which is just that…(never did that before…used a diary) and many of my posts come out of that blog…so in many cases I’m asking myself out loud if you will…the questions in my mind. Seeing them expressed in this way…it kind of gives me a flavor for them…but at the same time seems to cause consternation in those that are reading.

But that doesn't answer the question at hand...am I making all this stuff up…to get attention for myself or to hoax you all or for what ever reason or motive that any one can think of?

The question seemed to have been raised when some one suddenly “discovered” an E-mail account I have at ICQ...and proceeded to read my profile...which they found questionable.

I explained what I felt needed explanation last night...but truly...in this kind of situation people will believe what they choose to...

I thought about this last night and still have trouble thinking of any profit to myself for doing what people are so willing to believe that I’ve done. Be that as it may, I’m posting this, this morning...probably my last post for quite a while...but not for the reasons others here will want to attribute to me in terms of motivation. But more about that at the end.

This post is intended to address the greater issue…which to me is trust. We learn so much here at MB…yet…do we ever really learn anything?

From where I'm sitting, my current position on this board is giving me the almost exact same feeling as that which I got when I found out about my wife…yet again. What’s happening to me here…well it truly feels like infidelity.

And if you think about it...its not such a far-fetched analogy. The people I love and trust have turned on me...with what to me feels like a betrayal of trust. I have opened my self up to people in a way that I never have to any one…only to be told that’s what happening now is my fault. And like a cheating wife, people here now seem to feel that they have a license to defame my character…and make disrespectful judgments...hello MB principals!?

And this is all based on what? A profile in ICQ…that I never wrote by the way...in that this is an E-mail account that my wife and I share...and in that she is the ICQ person…(with a questionable sense of humor for sure)... not me! Or that some one now tells me that I am in some group…on ICQ…LOL And most will believe ill of me because they choose to…They will believe that this post is about me making an excuse to avoid blame…me not being willing to own up or accept ownership for my own faults and misdemeanors…that I’m lying…

But for what reason I wonder does any one think that I would lie…about any of this?

Funny that folks think that the ICQ thing is some huge disclosure...in that this is the E-mail address on my profile...for all to use and see...at MB. I have never tried to hide it…never…so what was the big secret I was hiding? LOL The fact that one of my hobbies is writing erotica in partnership with my wife…(my wife’s description not mine) to post on the Internet? As if to say that I'm a pornographer LOL. Or that I’m practicing my less then considerable skills her at MB? But why would I? This is just so dumb...it defies logic…

The E-mail account under discussion, by the way, was the one I used when I re-registered to MB after the big up-grade snafu. And if I had known that my own marital situation would come to be what it now is…I would never have used an account that she has access to as well…or uses more then me.

As to the infamous Munchausen’s reference…all I can do is laugh…but not AT anybody except maybe myself…but it’s the incongruity of it all that’s really funny! This is the third time I’ve ever posted (started a post) on this site…in over 7 years…3 times I have started a post…some attention seeker I am! LOL

And my entire personal and business life? I’ve spent them trying to fly under the radar…always avoiding attention, LOL…mostly because I am more then a bit shy…And I’m not offended by the assessment…truly I’m not…what I am is hurt…but only because I think so much of the person who wrote the post…and I’ve never made any secret of just how much I respect that person…so Pep, if you ever come to read this…all I can say is that you thinking that I am such a reprehensible and dishonest person…that truly does smart more then a bit…honest…I’m just not that smart…glib or…to be frank…sick. So for you and you alone…her it is…the only concession I’ll make…this once I’ll sacrifice my dignity to deny what is being said about me… I am not the person you now think me to be. I have lied about nothing…my life at the moment…is unfortunately what I have written it to be…

I have to say in fact that there are many of you whose current judgment of me I find more then a bit painful…very cynical…But I truly don’t believe I can or have changed any one’s mind about anything…not with what I wrote last night or what I’m writing here. I kind of think that everybody’s mind is made up about me…Because for some reason, that is what you folks want to think.

Last night a few of you posted back…some were very kind…Ms Martin…thank you for your faith in me. I truly appreciate your kindness…but more then appreciate it…I value it! Your simple little post last night…your simple expression of faith…I will never be able to adequately express how you gifted me…Not because the issue under discussion is anything very important…because people it really isn’t…but ML…your expression of confidence is worth the total experience…it is rear that any of us are given that kind of affirmation…so to receive it at all…no matter what the circumstances may be…is a huge gift. Thank you so very much.

Others also posted me back…some in outrage on my behalf…Patriot…thank you…from the bottom of my heart…thank you…Others posted… asking further evidence of good faith…or more tangible proof, LOL And I say this now…in the light of this new day…I wouldn’t give it if I had it or could give it! Not now…not ever…not for any reason. Believe what you will…I have lied about nothing! And I will not apologize for anything…Further…I have never done anything… to any one here… other then offer advice and affection. Expect no further explanations from me about anything! Just know this…would be to God…that you who are questioning me…had hands half as clean.

And by the way…one of you wanted to see wedding pictures…LOL…as proof! But sure…I have only the one’s that I took right now…the others won’t be ready till there ready, LOL…photogs are very independent for some reason…soooo….I need to figure out a way to post some…I will be back to do just that…if nothing else.

Now it’s time to end all this. I am comfortable with things being what they are…I have disappointments for sure…huge disappointments…but I’ll live with them…as well as with the regrets…But it has occurred to me that I am finished in this place no matter what…But not because of this current upheaval…

The fact is that I was finished in this place as soon as I posted my own personal story and asked for support. And please understand what I am saying here. This is not about me lying or making up my story…It’s about that I posted it at all…It was at that point I was finished. I was finished because I forgot my role…I forgot who I was in this place and what my intended responsibilities to you all really were. After all…how could it be…that I might be fallible…in pain…or need help?

How could this be if I was to ever again provide advice and support to any one…what authority could my opinions and feelings have…to any other?…Any advice I now could offer would always be suspect…forever questioned and colored by my own pain and my own experience with a WW who cheated on me for yet a second time. Who could now believe in my objectivity? How in fact can I be objective? Am I right, 2 Long old buddy? Even now you question my sincerity because of what?…That I write what my wife calls erotica? So…how worthy could I be?

So this thing that’s happened? It’s not all that terrible in it’s ultimate result…it’s only terrible in its unfairness,..in the hurt I feel and in it’s injustice…but that’s not any one’s problem…or concern…just mine!

The less charitable among you will assume that I am running away…from facing up to what ever they think I should be facing up to…others will of course just not care…others yet, will be pleased…that they have driven off another infidel…some one they deem not worthy…

As for me…I still like you all…that’s my choice to make and I’m happy to make it…more then that I wish all of you peace and happiness…I truly do…please believe that because to not believe is to deny love and good will…and those are two things that our world can never have enough of.
Coach

Who knows what to think? My first post stated I was "confused" about the description given on icq. Nothing more.

Today, I remain puzzled that anyone's spouse would write a description of their mate that sounds like a cheesey singles advertisement. One that makes it appear the spouse is looking for love.

It just seemed incongruent to me and I wondered what others would conclude. I sat on the info for over a month.

I wish Coach well.

I have a question for cameo33.

You registered yesterday. At the time I have posted this, you have a sum-total of 2 posts. You sat on this 'information' for a month. Your contributions to the MB forum have ended up inciting contempt for one of its rather long-term members.

Who are you and why are you here? Do you have an infidelity in your life you wish to discuss? Possibly a secret you are hiding from your spouse and you are looking for a way to get it out?

Or was coach just unlucky? Or is there more to the reason you sat on some bit of 'pivotal' info for a month and then flashed it out yesterday? Any time to tell your story here?

I feel badly that you would stop contributing and sharing your story here but for the postings of a few.

None of us want to feel like we've been duped. None of us want to be made a fool of after having been betrayed so terribly by our spouses. I think that is where the quick reaction came from. I wish you would have posted back right after that person linked the ICQ instead of letting it get carried away.

None of us are perfect people..and without sin. We come from various walks of life, some with more imperfect pasts than others. Most of us are grownups but don't always act in such a way.

Leave if you must...but I wish you weren't. So many got so emotionally involved with your story and turmoil. It caused a bit of tension and worry when you didn't come back for 3 wks. Although, you never finished fully explaining your current plan of action with your WW, I think that may have been what lead to some of the confusion. It didn't make lots of sense without a better explanation...it didn't seem to fit with who you've been and the example you'd want to set for your kids and others. (shacking up with your WW???)

If you decide to leave...you know you are welcome to return anytime. Your positive history here speaks for itself.

Coach,
I thank you for your explanation. I went back and re-read what happened and thought about my reaction, which was negative.

You mentioned that all were reacting badly to an e-mail address and I didn't understand what you meant at all. I certainly wasn't reacting to an e-mail address. The link I went to was a personal ad. So I thought. That is what it looks like! I don't have any idea what ICQ is...I thought it was a personal ad and that made me hopping mad...as, of course, it would not jive with the story we were reading for 30+ pages. I could not possibly trust a person telling a story such as yours and then see him in a personal ad. That was what I thought I saw.

What is ICQ? And if just an e-mail address, why the personal info online? And, I'm even more confused if your wife did indeed do that for you.

I'm still unclear and unsure about the whole thing...

ICQ is a chat program. You download it, get an ID and start chating.

What he has done by joining ICQ and posting some personal information on the ICQ pages is like joining Yahoo.com to get an ID for the messenger program. You can put your personal info on Yahoo also.

Yahoo is not a dating/singles site.

Niether is ICQ.

Ok...I'll bite.

Yes, with me, it was your writing style. You seemed to be "spinning" instead of simply "sharing" your story. Had I know that this was going to be a place for you to have just another blog, I would not have offered anything to you.

Your agenda is apparent to me now. You were not looking for anything FROM posters here...except the desire to have them read your "blog". Which is what they are all about anyways...right?

So, your writing demonstrated a few off putting things.

1. Pretention....how many times do you need to tell people how much money you spent on this or that...how much it costs a night to stay where you are staying...how you picked up the tab for an impromptu dinner party of 14. See where I am going with this? When you mentioned the amount of that "bar tab" I couldn't help but think it was a vulgar display of some preconceived status of wealth. How many people on this site are posting that they don't know how they will be feeding their kids because their H/W has left and not helped with support. It was tacky and insensitive to say the least.

2. Entertainment... You make comment about coming back and maybe having something amusing to report...like it is ALL about entertainment with you here. Got to keep the crowd begging for more.

3. Embelllishment...the bite thing alone was enough to make people start questioning. You talked of her nearly tearing out hunks of flesh...blood in her mouth...all over her face and teeth...biting into muscles and ligaments...needing stitches....BUT...she really showed you how much she loved you by tearing your flesh. (hmmm...sounds a little bit like some erotica there..huh?)

4. Plotting...Your plots and plans of humilation and destruction. While all the time, you claim that you are a man of honor and integrity...it didn't wash with me.

Those are just a few of the things that had me puzzled (besides the "shrug" thing.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />).

Again, had I known that your agenda was NOT wanting anything other to simply post your blog here, I would not have pointed out the things that I did.

I can imagine that these will be my last words on any of your threads...I don't contribute to blogs.

Blog On.

committed

Coach said:



This really disturbs me. It is insulting and demeaning to us all....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Ooops...

Thanks Mimi

committed

He may have been referring to the all DJ's that he got and the quick rush to judgement before an explanation or even a logical discussion of all the 'facts'.

Some of it may be due to our own PTSD.

I dunno. I still don't believe Coach's situation is real.

I did not post on Coach’s thread until right near the end, and about his outrageous D arrangement (downright sitcom, if you ask me) because it was all too dramatic and look-at-me sounding from the beginning.

Now I wish I had never posted on it at all. There are already way too many lies, deceit and half truths in my life.

I'm sorry. Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck....

OK, Coach, I didn't think too much about the "shrug" thing, because I figured your wife would have told you that is what it was called.

The bite=passionate love rationalization really bothered me.

The changing of names really aroused my suspiscions, although I was too mired in my own personal issue that night to realize what was bugging me about your story.

The ICQ profile does look like an ad generated to get women to respond to you.

So, please understand that WE felt betrayed, as well.

If I was wrong to doubt you, I apologize, and I hope you can find understanding as to how we were able to jump to conclusions.

That being said, the erotica writing doesn't bother me a whit. I have no judgment against you because of that, but I do have to wonder if your jointly writing erotic fantasies has had a negative impact on your marriage.

It would seem to me that just WRITING erotica is no longer enough for your wife...that she has to LIVE erotica.

And, again, if your wife stayed out all night with the professor, you can bet your boots they had sex.

And, the divorce but living together idea? Sorry, but I don't see how that could possibly make her work on your relationship. She would just work harder to keep you from finding out next time, and if you do...so what? She'll figure that you'll take her back again.

Oh...and your wife writing your ICQ profile? That looks to me like an attempt on her part to put YOU in the situation to have an affair...and create even more drama, not to mention a way to justify her cheating.

That is why I believe so many jumped to the negative conclusions..because his latest idea didn't make sense with the Coach, whose advice to others, we have respected. It just proves how much easier it is to be objective when reading about other peoples situations but be near clueless in being able to see the forest for the trees in some of our own situations. We are just too close to be objective.

I wish he'd continue to bounce his ideas off of many of those wiser posters because I think he could really use a sounding board about now.

Good points, Lady Clueless.

Stick around, coach. You aren't the first person here 2 be an unwitting "victim" of a pyramid of erroneous assumptions.

Sorry for mine.

best,
-ol' 2long

Coach, I'd like to clarify what I wrote on your thread. It had nothing to do with your hobby, nothing whatsoever and in the end probably not that much to do with you either.

It is VERY disconcerting to see a cataclysmic personality change in a long time poster, especially one who has been a voice of reason. Your personality change (really your writing style) happened not with your thread but when Pep called you out to commend you on a post you had written. You morphed into a jovial, much livelier personality. Very different. That was the begining, your thread came a few weeks later.

Maybe it was the early comment on your thread that you made to Pep, something along the lines of "Oh Pep my darling, oh why, oh why do you have to be married"? that had me asking myself, "Who the heck is this guy?" Not at all same Coach I've been reading for almost three years.

There was more seemingly out of character stuff and it was disturbing to me Coach, in fact so disturbing that I went to another site to try to work out my trigger to it. I realized that I personally have a hard time with people not being as they appear, call it trust issues, whatever. The result is that your extreme makeover really triggered me. It's my issue, not yours. You can be whoever you want to be where ever you want. I just don't *know* you anymore, I guess.

I probably need to be a little less of an optimist when it comes to others but you know.... the world really can use reasonable people and you were one of those on MB Coach. You will be missed by me in that form. KB

No one is interested in Cameo at all? A story? Anything???

interesting...

Knewbetter
Sometimes comments are taken too seriously. There have been time that Pep has posted something and I am in such awe that I want to post a quick...'I think I am in love with you Pep' post...but I am not even ... that way... so I thought it could be misconstrued.

I didn't interpret those comments of Coach's any differently than some of the silly thoughts I've had.

Pat, I lurked for well over a year before ever posting here, that is not unusual. She may not be ready right to share her story or then again maybe she might be. It's her call...do you suppose that you would be able to help her situation if she were to post? If so, great. If not, maybe she needs to wait so that she can get excellent MB help without getting discredited for being a messenger. KB

Agreed Trix, it was part of an overall context however. I LOVE Pep,(Sweet Potato Queen that she is) too but hey I think she knows what I mean and doesn't have to back off from that.

Edit: I'm also not a man and I don't call her darling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

yet, yesterday, with much glee, you wrote:

I am happy, happy, happy!!! Why??? Because my radar was dead on, because from the very first post I KNEW this sitch was waaaaay off. I actually posted June 16 on a different website about my feelings of being manipulated by this poster. ********PLAYER.********

For the record, I respected Coach up until the first two posts of his little novella. I had actually defended him when he used the word "surreal" to describe someone else's real life story a week or so earlier. Ha, surreal is a great description of his "family" not to mention that wedding. I laughed and laughed reading this latest. I wish H and I had made a bet on this because HE got bamboozeld.I am glad I never backed down on my own instincts.

I feel vindicated at standing my ground that he was lying or at the very least exaggerating. If even if even a smidgen of what he wrote is true, he is still a base liar in the end, abusing the abused as someone mentioned. What made me stop any ongoing reading is that it got so ridiculous, it was like he was baiting us trying to get someone to call him on the absurdities.

I'm sure I am unattractively crowing but hey I AM! This time around I saw *it* coming and I called it. (as opposed to the reason that brought me here.) Ahh, progress.... KB


how can people be so 2 faced.

180's everywhere we turn.


is how people here treat each other a reflection of what goes on in your homes?????


Patriot..I applaud you and wait alongside you for cameo33's response.

as you are eagle-eyed, you will notice that this is my first post and that I registered today. I had to. I was reading here and reading here and could not believe some of the things I have read here...the abrupt about-face.


of course coach has had a personality change...please read his thread and try to understand the emotional impact of everything.

you cannot expect the "same man" that posted on pages 1-10 for example to be the "same man" on pages 29- not considering what he has gone through inbetween those pages

why is eveyone so intent on villifying and maligning...without facts? why are so many of you willing to jump down his throat and attack....many of you claiming 'friendship' with him for over 3 years!!!!!


many of you are so quick to judgment it makes my head spin and others are so quick to jump on the famous 'mob-mentality' train that it isn't funny.

for those that suggested 'outing' him at work....please be prepared for a legal mess...he will be well within his boundries to sue for libel.

you shred, you tear, you misinform, you fall victim to hurtful attitudes and tones.

many of you feel betrayed by Coach

how many of you can understand that he probably feels beyond betrayed by those he trusted most...at home, in his real life, and here, at a place he thought was safe and secure.


think of the examples you are setting.


Blunt

standing on my chair and applauding.

thank you. That was so awesome and so exactly what I wanted to say.


Blunt

Blunt, I think a number of us have. You seem to be a day late and a dollar short. Where were you last night? Maybe you should have jumped in then on the other thread. Oh well.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

seems to be a habit of mine...but hey..usually I wouldn't even open my mouth. I'm working on it.

the other thread was too far gone for me to reply with any societal niceness.

But Coach invited one and all or rather, anyone to respond on this thread.

so, I'm anyone.


Blunt.

thank you for the welcome, Trix

Already have a predetermined assumption of my ability to help someone? Or my intentions? Maybe someone as lowly as I could give excellent advice too...

Lol, you are a funny one Bluntgirl and I like your screen name! You are absolutely correct, I was gleeful last night and I posted a clarification probably one page back (?) which you partially quoted from.

The personality change came when he was complimented by Pep not after his crisis which led to ME being uncomfortable with the severe flipflop in posting style. THE POINT of the post you are partially quoting from is simply that it's MY issue, not Coach's (trust) and one that I needed to acknowledge for myself.

I've been here a long time and to say I will miss Coach as the guy I posted with and enjoyed reading is hardly twofaced, it's just fact. You seem to have sort of missed the point of the post but that's okay. KB

Already have a predetermined assumption of my ability to help someone? Or my intentions? Maybe someone as lowly as I could give excellent advice too...

She's not posting Pat, her choice. If she comes up I'm sure you'll give her a fair shake. KB

Pat, Just in case you missed it on the other thread....Cameo and Cameo33 are two different posters. Just FYI.

As a writer myself, I thought I recognized what Coach was doing as an old yarn-spinner's trick. If you can tell a story about yourself entertainingly enough, you can focus on the listeners/readers reactions rather than on the real life drama. It's a diversion, a pressure release valve almost. A kind of subtle dissociating that writers do to give themselves mental space. You also see it a lot now in blogs. Writing as defense mechanism, almost.

I hope that is what was happening, rather than creating a tragedy out of thin air. If anything would be sadder than infidelity, ir would be someone faking infidelity for attention.

Hey, didn't we all discuss this in a thread that PB&J started last week about people getting "begged" to stay on when they state an intention to leave. Coach is a smart guy who has told all of us that his time has come to an end here. He wrote the blog, he did what he needed to do here.

Are we all going to be so selfish as to not let the guy leave when he said that is what he wants? Yes, it is sad the way his situation took a trun for the worse yesterday, but he bears a lion share of that blame, as do each of us who responded to the thread. (well ofcourse not Patriot who came 12 pages into it to lay the hammer down.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

There are indeed a number of 180's on here.

This thread and it's aftermath have taken away a good amount of time and attention to other's issues...I am just as guilty as the rest for participating in this, but maybe the Coach leaving is better for all (for now).

There aren't usually any "forevers" or "nevers" on here, and I suspect we will see the man back as he navigates his issues (whatever they may in reality be).

Just my .02.

Sour.....

Patriot..you know getting your panties in a wad does nothing but make your clothes look funny. Whew! Lighten up!

Whether Coach's story is true or not doesn't really matter at this point. It's like when a man is asked if he's still beating his wife. Of course he's not but the words are spoken and the question and all that it implies is out there.

I fell for the story...hook, line and sinker. I won't declare that at this point or that point, I became suspicious. Heck, who am I to you people but words on a screen. It doesn't bother me to tell the truth.

This website is not responsible for our marriages, our feelings, or our lives. To give this place some high and lofty presence to suggest that for someone who uses it in what they deem an inappropriate way and crediting them with harming the lives of other's, is naive at best.

I wouldn't be surprised if he will be around under another name posting in a little different style. He loved the respect that many gave him and that cam be addictive. Everyone wants to feel respected.

Coach I wish you well.

I'm got tired of all the drama a long time ago. I never posted, only lurked. Coach put me in my place a few weeks ago and was backed up and coddled by several respected long timers here because I just hurt his little feelings. Well let me give you my point of view about all of this. I don't know how much of Coach's story is true or not true. However, being the WS myself let me tell you ALL something. Making excuses for your bahavior is WRONG whether it's lying about an A or buying a bulldozer without telling your spouse. I will tell you that Coach's words, along with others who backed him up devastated me. And when I read the "outing", I wanted to reach my hand through the computer and slap the sh*t out of him and others. Let me tell you all who you need to be leary of trusting. It is those here or anywhere else who are so consumed with making sure that you take "responsibility" for your actions that they take the spotlight off any of theirs. Pharissees comes to mind for any of you who are christians. Over the past 2 years I have wanted to die, withdraw, disappear off the face of the earth. But for some people here that is not enough. I'm not sorry enough. My story was questioned. Coach questioned my childhood abuse. Now he has the nerve to come here and put others down for questioning him. What a mighty high pedistal to fall from as I'm trying to drag myself up to earth level only to be knocked down because I'm the WS who must pay.

I'm almost finished. I had decided that I would never post here again. I know that some of you thought that meant that I knew I was wrong and defective and they were right, high and mighty. WEll, if you're one of them, you're wrong. I didn't leave because I was wrong. I left because I would never heal if I stayed here. I would never become strong. I would never become the woman I could be.

So I will leave you with one thought. Please do some soul searching. There are 2 things that I thank God for everyday. One is that, if my CSA made me the compassionate person I am today, I'm glad it happened. The other is that what happened to me 2 years ago finally gave me the wake up call that I needed to get help. If that hadn't happened, I don't think that I would have. I like me now. I know that I am a good person. I know that I am a good wife and mother. I'm definitely not perfect yet, but I will never be the person I was the first 42 years of my life. And you know what, no one here can take that away from me. I know what boundaries are and I have them now. Not coming here and allowing myself to be abused is one of them.

Just remember that what you say in "truth" still affects the person you're talking to. It's not an excuse to be cruel, compassionless, and make assupmtions. Thanks for all the lessons you have all taught me. I can fight for myself partly because of you.

OMG, I almost forgot. Coach, I do have one question for you about the ICQ email address. Do you or don't you use it?

I have no interest in throwing fuel on the fire, but since I helped last evening to do just that, there are a few things I'd like to say.

This ain't no groveling... although I do feel badly about the whole scene.

I was reacting to what were -- to me, at the time -- the facts. I think every person who posted on this thread last evening was doing the same.

I've thought about this, and I'm not sure what the answer is, or if it even matters, but... I wonder if those people who were not actively "listening"/reading/posting at the time this all happened, and instead they showed up after-the-fact and read through the whole thing -- I just wonder if they get a completely different take on things than those of us who just happened to be online at the time.

One thing that kept racing through my mind while all of this was going on... I thought about how I would've felt if I were somebody new here, right in the midst of the horror and pain of "just finding out" about this adultery/infidelity/affair CRAP that is ripping them apart from every angle... how would I feel if I was going through that... came here for help... and saw this thread? And I was angry at Coach for that. I was angry at the whole situation. Even though the pain for me personally is now just a constant dull ache that seems to never go away... I remember The Pain I was in.

And last night, I felt ripped off. Not just for me (actually, very little for me, as Coach and I exchanged only a couple posts)... but I felt this whole community had gotten ripped off -- BIG time. That's how I felt as things unfolded, last evening.

I think the incredible DRAMA that Coach created, nurtured, and obviously loved in his posts... was a factor in what the reaction was to this new information about him. (and I thought Coach always coached to get away from the drama, didn't you Coach? That's confusing to me.)

And a note to Patriot... when I read your words this morning, I appreciated them. I understood them, and I agreed with them. They made me want to go stand in the corner, and put my head down. But if I had to pick one thing to say to you Patriot, it would be this --- and it does sound like self-defense... I have empathy and "niceness" OOOZING out of my pores... to a fault. What happened last evening -- it can't be changed. But in THIS context -- infidelity and all-that-comes-with-it -- there's no room for [censored]. The facts as they were presented were enough. I had NO respect for Coach last evening, and from how I interpreted the facts presented to me, he didn't deserve any.

A personal note to Coach... I don't randomly attack people... or for that matter, anything that moves, or lives, or breathes, or feels, or grows... you'll have to take my word on that.

I apologize for any personal attacks on you.

This is bothering me, though... and if I'm misstating the facts, and/or if I've missed the explanation somewhere earlier, I sincerely apologize.

Having an ICQ profile/name/address/whatever... no big deal, millions of people have one.

And your wife set this thing (ICQ) up.
Ok.

And she decided to include in your profile: "I enjoy people, (especially woman, LOL)"
Ok.

And she decided to include "and having my body rubbed."
Ok.

And she decided to put you into the "Unhappy Married People seeks More" Interest Group.
Well, Ok.

And you said you were aware of all this.

I'm confused... please tell me I missed an explanation somewhere...

tqt, that last one about the unhappy married group was the most troubling...was that all your wife's idea...some cruel joke? Or was that from 7 yrs ago...I'd understand that. Did she post that for you also?

For those who have been around for a "while," let me just say that this whole thing "reeks" of another Dustkitty sort of "play."

For those who do not know about the college research team posting under the pseudonym "Dustkitty," do a search and then see for yourself if there are any similarities.

Let's just say that it would be easy for someone who loves to write passionate "love stories" (probably NOT with married subjects), to "play" with spinning a yarn or embellishing circumstances to get a "rise" out others, especially those who are already on an "emotional edge" from the disaster of infidelity.

But...I guess I could be wrong since I have read NONE of Coach's epic thread and am reacting solely based upon what has been posted in THIS thread. Self-serving, self-justifications, people not "mature enough" to see this "Coach's way,"....enough to tickle my "Betrayed Spouse Radar." Whether the radar "image" is real or a "ghost contact" remains to be seen, but the "maturity" comment was enough for me to have real questions about the "validity" of Coach's postings, and especially about his "elitist appearing distain" for anyone who is "beneath" HIS "code of ethics and understanding."

We make choices, folks. I look, for good or bad, at the fundamental motivation that drives someone and their posting. It's relatively easy for someone to "adopt" the mantle of wanting to help someone, in how they choose to post to another person, but it would seem that the reason Coach chooses to post "helpful information" from time to time is because he "likes" to write and adopt any writing "style" that he chooses. If I didn't know better, I think that was a display of "situational ethics," but I guess it's just another case of "receiver of advice beware."

Another way I see this as relevant to MB...

Coach is sounding to me like a WS in the fog, not taking personal responsibility for his effect on others..

The message I get is: "MB Community, it is your fault that you are not feeling OK about this...if only you had not found out more about me, YOU would still feel OK, etc.....

Maybe I missed the "I'm sorry" or "I'll see what I can learn about myself from this" from Coach...

IMHO...

Hey Coach,
You grew up in Boston right?
Ok, tell me something about Boston that only Bostians would know. I too, know a few things about Boston.
Give me something that's not found in Google or some other search site?\
Jerry
PS; this could clear things up, don't you think?
Sounds like you may have passed within 50 feet of me during your hiatus?????

Coach,

How r u doing? Seems like your reputation is taking quite a beating here. Sorry to hear that.

For those you have helped in the past, this hurts them too you know.

Since I like to share experiences, let me share an MB one with you. About 4 years ago a former poster (let's call him SNL) and his W began posting here at MB. SNL was/is the WS and his W was/is the BS. They have 4 children (which by now are out of high school.

SNL was a self employeed hard working man and his W was his loyal supporter. Well SNL liked to talk, he joined several 'christian chat' groups and lo' n behold', there was OW...... Now SNL lived in MA and the OW lived in AZ. Yet somehow they managed not only to talk all the time but even get together turning the EA to PA. All the while bringing great distress, turmoil and confusion to BS and family.

Welp, one of them finds MB. Both begin posting. SNL is a better poster than his W (lets call her Thnker). SNL brings out the WS POV and the board just jumps....all kinds of long winded debates and discussions. Lot is shared and learn on both sides of the fence. SNL posts hundreds of threads, may be even a few thousand. Some even ask for his opinion on their serious problems. He helps out. SNL even calls me. He and his W are on the phone with me for several hours each time.

Well eventually the double life of the WS catches up. SNL can't walk the talk and he begins to babble. Not just to his W who by know has let us know what is really happening in their household. SNL is banded from the boards because his babble turns hateful and he gets banded. SNL lurks then goes through a series of new poster names. For some crazy reason, SNL thinks that we can't figure out when he begins posting with his new user name. Silly man, he was outed each time. LOL!!! You know what gave him away? His own self. His own WS self. See SNL's attitude as a WS was still alive. It didn't die and it finally got to a point where that double life had caught up.

Eventually it took its toll on his W and she stopped posting. I hear she makes one heck of a lemon meraguine (sp??) pie (which happens t/b SNLs) favorite. But alas, even the pie can't reach his cold WS heart. SNL moves out, displaces his mother (he moves into her home and takes over her home in various spots, making it difficult for her to live there.

The children are pitted by the WS against their mom ($$ c/b thicker than water at times) and the BS lost her father in the interim.

Where is all this going? Just to let you and others know, leading a double life only brings trouble. I don't doubt at one time SNL was sincere. But his WS attitude was his downfall. He tried to take his whole family with him. He even tried to convince others here also but it didn't work.
It can't work because we only have 1 life.

With that said, make sure from here on out, your life is one you w/b proud of. Don't make regrets. They take too long to fix.

take care,
L.

Because the other topic is closed - this is for MelodyLane


Never??
Then you owe me an apology for your reply on the other topic!
Or, better, please be kind and just avoid it the next time...


Orchid, you did it indirectly, so just indirectly mentioning you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Re: Coach... it'd be easier for everyone just take what he gave to some of you during 3 years, his good advice and help, and the rest to leave to him and to God to judge and solve his personal issues...
To say it better, if he was helping your (as I read), now it's time - to help him back!
Obviously he has some issues that need some good advice from experienced and wise MBers...

But Coach doesn't seem to be open to listening to us, BELONGING....

B2M, thanks but no thanks, I am pretty happy with my "kindness" level as it is. Nor do I owe you anything.

He reads... He might come if he sees some other kinds of words...
However, we should pray for his soul... 'errare humanum est'...

Orchid - while I have my doubts about Coach, I also had several discussions with SNL (in several of his pseudonyms) and several with his wife.

Just a general observation: Coach may not be who he appears to be, but he is no SNL...thank goodness!

Coach...you are the reason that I joined this. I was reading what you have been writing. Do not stop. Keep true to yourself.

B2M,

Please clarify what did I 'indirectly'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
L.

FH,

Good to hear from you. I gave the SNL experience to show how one can have great discussions but if not true to form, eventually the 'other' side shows up. Can't live a double life no matter how great one is at babbling. Just can't. Eventually it catches up.

Maybe the ol' adage of fooling some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time may have some merit. I certainly hope not.

I liked Coach's older posts to others. Reading his version of his account was easier because he put feeling and humor into it. I can appreciate that. So I am sad if there has been any double talk. Only Coach will know.

In a similar vein, when SNL was making sense, I did enjoy his conversations. Not all but many. We chatted on the phone quite a bit for a while. Both he and his W used to call me. In that sense we became friends. What I can share is when SNL decided to step over to the other side, I was bashed by him on these very boards. While I still cared for him as a fellow MBer, I could not condone his abusive behavior and did would not allow him to transfer his anger to me. He tried in a subtle way. It must have been frustrating to go from a Ws to Xws to full blown WS again. Yet the cycle was quite clear. Eventually SNL stopped talking with me. I ocassionaly still hear from his W. It has been a while.

I don't think Coach has taken the path of SNL and I hope he doesn't. It saddens my heart to see a once fine man deteriorate into a WS. I really does.

Coach, I miss the Coach we have come to know and appreciate. Hope you can come back in true form.

L.

It's still there...

It's OK, Orchid, i.e. if you don't remember means (to me) you didn't think of me when saying it... and you are right. :-)

Hey Coach,

If you are still around, and if your story was true, how about an update.

So I have a question...being relatively new to this site, I'm confused about what the problem is. Are these "coaches" people who are hired by MB or are they just trying to stir the pot and get attention? I've never really hung out on a board like this before, so I'm trying to understand everyone's anger. Is it that we don't want to waste time giving advice to a hypothetical problem? Seems like no one had a problem with giving Patriot "saddlebags full" of advice for his admitted hypothetical problem. If the advice is good, maybe it will help someone else??? Just asking, so don't get mad at me, ok?

re these "coaches" people who are hired by MB or are they just trying to stir the pot and get attention?
Coach is his log in name here, nothing else.
There are no hired "coaches" at MB.
There are a few moderators which simply make sure the message boards stay on track/on topic.
They don't make sure people use the marriage builders properly or "guide" the way. They rarely post and when they do, it's because people get into little fights/arguments way off topic.

After corresponding with Coach a number of times after this all flared up, I decided he's legit - his sitch is just that dramatic.

But I don't think he'll be back. It'd be cool if I'm wrong.

-ol' 2long

I've missed Coach.

Did he decide to work on recovery or proceed with a DV?

Hope he's doing okay.

I kinda had the feeling that Coach was posting more fiction on Divorced/divorcing under Senator H. This guy can't be real. Noone could be that clueless.

As I said before, it really doesn't matter if the story was true or not. Coach lost his credibility and to a writer that's as if he lost his ability to breathe. If we do see him again, it won't be under the same name.

Jees, you guys are kinda harsh, aren't you? I haven't read any of these earlier posts of this Coach guy, and he's probably majorly messed up, but if there's even a chance that the guy isn't jerking your chain, wouldn't you want to jump in with some advice? As I've seen so far, many of us don't actually TAKE the advice, at least not for a while. Seems to me like there are many folks out there that don't care for me either, but I still post, in hopes that the few that do offer advice will be just what I need to get through this painful time.

imanotherone...wouldn't it be advisable for you to read the "earlier posts of this Coach guy" before you pass out criticisms and judgement of things that you aren't familiar?

People:

We killed coach off, effectively, by the way we treated him when he was last here.

Maybe he was legit. Maybe he was jerking our chains (I think he was legit).

But we chased him away a long time ago. Maybe we should let this go?

-ol' 2long

jph,
it was exactly BECAUSE I haven't read his posts that I felt the need to comment. I mean, what if the guy was a loose cannon, or insulting, or whatever, because he was really hurting. I know I've had moments that I'd never want captured on a web thread, but if they were...I'd hope that folks wouldn't just up and decide that I'm not worth the effort.
Also, I'm all for 2x4's when they're justified, but there's no reason to be hateful. WWJD?

For those who want to know, read coach3530's thread "Oh What A Tangeled Web."

Thanks, RAG for the link to Coach's earlier thread. All of this happened about a month before I came here. Guess what else I heard, just today from traffic counts on this website? THERE WERE A LOT MORE ACTIVE POSTERS IN THE MONTHS BEFORE I CAME. I can see by the sheer number of posts on Coach's site that he drove everyone crazy. I won't even guess whether he's genuine...but what I will say is this: if he's got FWS, WS, FBS, BS, OW, OM, and any other folks stumbling into this MB website due to his very articulate and infuriating thread...isn't it possible that the traffic he drove here might actually benefit by reading the great advice (whether the problem was real or fictional) offered to him and others from you veterans, like Orchid, Melody, Trix, Believer, 2long, Chris, JPH, and the many, many others of you who stay on this board for us "Newbies" who are still struggling for answers? I hope I'm not further castigated for this response.

I agree with 2long.

I found this thread more than upsetting, it was troubling to the core.

And for me it was not because of the question of whether Coach was "legit" or not but of the way I reacted and said such hurtful, horrible things. And I only realized this a while after the fact.

I am shamed beyond belief, not at Coach but at myself, and I very rarely post anymore except to a couple of old friends I have on here.

Why bring this thread up again, as 2long pointed out? What purpose does it serve.

Coach, if you are still reading, I appologize deeply for what I said and how I contributed in the hurtful behaviour.

He didn't drive the traffic here, he just captivated it with an outlandish unconfirmed story. If all or any part of his story was untrue or embellished, then I for one, feel cheated for having read it. I was at a critical time in my marriage and needed support and advice, not to be entertained. Even if completely true, his story distracted me from obtaining the true marriage builders principles I needed to locate and apply. Around D-Day every second counts and I wasted quite a few seconds on his thread.

From what I recall Coach said he'd be back to prove it. I am still waiting.

Mr. Wondering

Coach was a wise and articulate member who gave good advice. That was long before his wife had another A which caused him to post about his own problems and get advice himself.

I am sure he helped many here. Then it became like a lynch mob to drive him away.

Sounds like this is a painful subject for many. Sorry if my comments infuriated anyone. I, for one, am a big believer in the "extinction" practice. We use it on children when they use swear words, etc. I plan to ignore any more posts on this thread, in hopes that it will go away. I know that others will keep it alive, but most of you will not participate. Not sure who brought it back, but probably best for all there to let it go. Let's get back to the business of saving marriages, including my own.

BTW, I'm crusing other threads tonight since WH is out of town, so I'm stumbling into many other people's lives. Hope my opinions are taken at face value.

You know....way back when....when my exH and I were both posting on here to recover our M....

Coach was paramount in dissecting our situation. He was RIGHT on target with saying we needed to both get counseling, and learn to communicate better. I really appreciated that.

I don't really know what happened on his thread. I read it a few times, but for some reason, the accusations didn't really 'take'. So I don't know what the actual situation is. But I DO know that I appreciated his perspective and his advice on my exH's and my threads.

Thank you, Coach.

Wow. It is times like right now that I am ashamed of this community as a whole. What a bunch of selfish, "my pain is worse than yours" hypocrites you are. Sure, there are planty of level-headed fine posters around here, but the community ran coach off on no proof or anything. It was plain meanness, mob mentality and sport.

Some group of folks thought it was funny to private eye coach via the internet... and the person that paid the price was coach.

What a fine bunch of supportive a$$es this community was for a BS, indeed.


unconfirmed? Outlandish? How exactly are you qualified to make the determination of what is and what isn't real? The short answer is you aren't. I would be more than happy to discuss the finer points of validating truth across the internet if you wish because, lucky for me, given the amount of access on this site to other people's locations, true lives and so on, you can't. He!!, for all you know froz and patriot are just me, and I am one bored person in the world that finds comfort in making all my story up.


why? because he came in here and preached anti-MB ideas??


I didn't find his story entertaining. It was disturbing. Just like everyone's story on here.


so... by reading coach's thread, you were completely unable to click any links to MB principles and information that can be found all over the place here??


then it is your responsibility to determine you think his story and advice is not helping you and move on. That is pretty much the theory behind a free access forum.



prove it? because he is required to satisfy your burden of proof? What a load of crap.

Sir, we all have problems here. None of them attributable to coach's story. HE didn't cheat on you. He told his story. And now, due to his 'warm' send off, he doesn't post anymore. He gave lots of people really good advice. Some folks sang his praises.

Now he is a ghost and no one has heard from him. He might have been in real, horrid, emotional pain. And the community further destroyed him.

Not an uncommon theme around here, unfortunately.

What a farce. Coach.... if you happen to read this. Wow, I am sorry for the ridicule you had to deal with. I hope you have found a better place for yourself. And a calmer situation in your life.

Based on your post here, we know that you aren't one of them!



Ok, that might not be a bad assumption based on your recent "hypothetical question" thread...




When you were brand new here, did you have any idea what you were looking for? When people first get to this site, they stumble around like they are blind, looking for ANY guidance that they can. New BSes have high hopes of finding ANYTHING that might help them, but they have NO idea of what that is...They feel like they are losing their minds and their entire world at the same time!!! You really need to think about this, and put yourself in the shoes of the newbies...


Oh yeah, and a newly BS knows exactly what it is that will help them...right...Why don't you come down off of your self-righteous soap box and practice the "empathy" that you seem to be trying to preach!



You have certainly satisfied my burden of proof when it comes to convicting yourself of acting like a really sarcastic jerk who enjoys name calling and taking cheap shots at people.

My husband was sincerely searching for answers at the time that Coach was posting...he didn't crucify him, he was only saying that because of all the praises that repeatedly got sung about coach on his thread that he, as a newbie, thought that perhaps he might find some valuable information there, so, OF COURSE, he felt cheated if any of coach's story was embellished or just plain made up! Just as no one has proof that coach was a "troll", you, "Sir", have no proof to the contrary!

AND speaking of hypocrites...attacking someone on this board for what you deem as his attacking someone who isn't even on this board any longer...HMMMM...Hello Kettle, this is Pot, you're black!


Here's the only thing that you got halfway right, not about my H's post, but about your very own!

However, I've said it before, and I'll say it again...THANK GOD FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH, IT LETS US KNOW WHO AND WHERE THE IDIOTS ARE!!!


Look, Patriot, It is unlike me to post anything this mean spirited, but I really feel that that was the intention of your post towards my H...I'm not looking to make an enemy of you, however, how would you react if someone said the things to Froz that you did to my H? My husband expressed his opinion on this thread, and I would have no problem with you having a differing opinion, but the name calling and condesending tone, really put me over the edge...

I truly would rather us say our sorries, and call a truce, but I will leave the ball in your court...

Mrs. Wondering

Wow, even w/o Coach thngs get heated up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Look y'all, Coach knows enough to know how to survive. While events did seem outlandish, aren't they usually? I mean who of us thought we'd be caught up in a bad soap opera!?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't wish this on anyone but look at how much it happens. Embellish?!??!? Reality is worse than the best script, unfortunately. Horror drama should have it's own category.

Ok, for those of you who believe Coach was railroaded, he wasn't. He is welcomed back and maybe some will have questions or not. The choice is his.

Coach's story is one of many here. Not the first nor the last. It is sad but true. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Up for a suggestion? Let's help some of the newer ones get a plan. Many come here and want an instant cure. NO can do! Instead, let's direct them to sources that can really help. Facing reality is good medicine. Keeping focused is mandatory. Wasting time trying to win back a WS is futile and takes waaay to much energy. Instead we need to help the BS' find their real spouses. If they can't see 'em right now, then work on themselves so that when their real spouses are sighted, the BS w/b ready and able to help them escape from the clutches of the WS beings.

JMHO,
L.

Personally,

I'm very sorry Coach was treated so badly. I was amazed at how quickly people "packed-up" against him.

What I REALLY want to know, but probably never will is "Who was Cameo33". Who showed up to "out coach" supposedly, then disappeared.

Someone who knew some personal details and knew where to find coach.

My wish is that we would practice MB principles with each other...call it "practicing for real life", so that all feel treated with respect, and maybe next time we will have learned this lesson.

Mrs. Wondering,

I don't believe your attack is warranted. I don't see anywhere in Patriot's thread where he singled anyone out. He simply stated that he was ashamed that a forum designed for support of people, most in great pain, would gang up on, attack, and accuse one of its own members. When that member came back and posted that he was telling the truth...he was then asked to prove it.

Why WOULD he want to? Some support group! Who are any of us to judge him? He didn't even have to offer an explanation, but he did. Yet, some here continued to crucify him anyway.

The only name-calling I see that Patriot called anyone was "hypocrite". Again, no one person was singled out.

You, however, singled my husband out specifically, saying to him...



and









Those are some pretty strong judgments you make. Again, Patriot didn't single anyone out. I really do hope that you are correct when you say that it is out of character for you to be so mean-spirited, and I'm glad that you recognize your words as such.

I believe this is exactly the type of judgmental behavior that Patriot found so distasteful.

The witch hunt that drove Coach off this board was horrid behavior. Who were any of we to place him on such a high pedestal because he had some interesting advice to give? So, he should then be punished, doubted, and asked to prove anything to anyone here when he seemed to fall short of someone else's expectations??? That is no excuse to treat someone that way.

The personal attack you bestowed upon my husband is also no way to treat someone else. There is a large difference between Patriot saying he was disappointed in the group as a whole and you taking potshots at his character for expressing his view on the treatment Coach received.

Yours was not expressing a view. It was a character assassination. In the future I, for one, would really appreciate it if you would keep your hateful remarks to yourself.

Frozen...

Every single quote used in the post by your H is a quote from my H's earlier post, that's all I'll say for now...Mr. Wondering will deal with it as he sees fit...

Please find your H's post with ALL quotes from my H below...

Mrs. Wondering

I fail to see where coach was even a fraud, sure that icq thing was suspicious but that itself is easy to create.

I have to be honest here, this whole "argument" after the fact is kind of humorous to me. We are all adults here and liable for our actions. There is NO DOUBT that Coach was getting some kind of "need" met by posting his drama as a story with chapters and the like....yes, I admit I was GUILTY of feeding into this and giving him the reinforcement he needed to continue. Irregardless of whether his story was legit or not, he was getting needs met in ways that were "unhealthy" in my opinion and the "drama" took on a life of it's own and surely robbed others at that time who were in desperate need of help here. The fact that Patriot is so vocal in his opinion on the subject is certainly no suprise to me. It is his "MO" and not unexpected. It is all good. There is no reason to get into a pissing contest about this.

The community here I am am sure would welcome him (Coach)back with open arms if he showed up and wanted again to be an active member. He made many valuable contributions to the community and as I recall even garnered a "call out" of praise on an individual thread from a "queen bee" member of the MB Supreme Court. There are BS who fight for and willingly take back and forgive cheating spouses after they have created financial ruin, severe emotional distress, exposed them to STD's and AIDS, created other children....etc.. etc...surely Coach could come back and be an active member of the community and be welcomed back....EVEN if he more than embellished his "story".

The fact that he is not posting is his choice and his choice alone. We should not all be so ignorant to think think that "we" have the power to make anyone do something that they don't want to do.

Just my unasked for .02

Lem....

Hey Meadowlark...TEE HEE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That is exactly what my H and I said about this whole thing this A.M....Fact is, I believe it was around four in the morning, our time, when I posted my angry response...not typical for me at all, my temper just got the best of me...I shouldn't be allowed to post at that time of morning...Need to remind myself to "Act, Don't React"...well, you know, hindsight and all...

Lem, your whole post was dead on and well said...I concur...

Take Care,

Mrs. Wondering

I was removing part of someone's colon (ischemic bowel) this morning at 4 am and I am with your girl...my mood right now is "sour". I don't post too much now days, but even I could not resist the temptation to weigh in here. I tried, but couldn't resist...I am weak, I admit........and am also very tired now, so my defense mechanisms are down.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Some of my most controversial posts and "discussions" have been post call and when I was tired and "cranky". They don't call me sourmale for nuthin....Sleep is coming soon....I hope.

I hope you and yours are doing well.

Cheers.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. Wondering,

Your re-posting previous posts by anyone still supports my original statement that Patriot was not singling out any one person, and thus did not warrant the very personal attack you came back with.



This is a fact, and it is one that I am extremely proud of. I am quite proud to have a husband that tries to keep an open mind and often defends someone he feels is receiving unjust treatment even when it goes against popular opinion...very proud, indeed.

Your mood may have been a factor, being 4 am and all, and LM's sour mood after having removed someone's colon is a fine reason as well.

Patriot had a death in his family today and I am certainly in no mood to stand idly by while someone rips his character to shreds. His day has been hard enough without having to read a post with someone else's bad day written all over it.

I'm done defending.

I have to admit Frozen, I sometimes wonder why you always seem to be defending Patriot when he clearly doesn't need it. I think Patriot is a "big boy" and certainly doesn't need "defending" here. I have seen you time and time again get upset and get your "feelings" "hurt" when this happens. This is another perfect example of what other posters have told you a thousand times over. When you start asking people to NOT post to you because you don't like what they have to say, you are gonna start getting "watered" down opinions on everything else. I freely admit that I rarely post to you for this fact alone. There is no doubt in my mind that any "opinion" I might have on your situation would NOT be met with objectivity, because I feel you would be killing the messenger and not hearing the message.

You don't have to defend Patriot...if he is going to make the comments he made so strongly above (whether he is right or wrong has never be in contention to me) he should freely be ready, able, and willing to hear differing opinions on them. When you jump in to "support" your man, I personally think you are cutting him at the knees wirhout even relaizing it....hey, but just my opinion, I am certainly no "MB" expert.

Lem...

How is it that you can say that Patriot singled no one out, when the bulk of his post is compiled of actual quotes from my husband??? Ones that my H, in fact, had posted that very same day. Not only does Patriot quote Mr. Wondering over and over, but he also has blurbs of "wisdom" acompanying each one...that's the very same thing I did to your H, seems to me that turnabout is fairplay, wouldn't you agree? Your argument makes no sense and certainly does not support your statement in ANY way, shape or form. The purpose of my reposting Patriot's post (not just anyone's, as you accused in your previous post directed at me) was to make sure that you had actually read it...the central theme of your defending post certainly suggested that you had not read Patriot's original post, but only my post in response to his. I just don't see any evidence to support your claim regarding the intentions of your husband...

My post to Patriot was made in anger which caused me to be uncharacteristically vengeful. For that, I am sorry...I do not like to allow the actions of others to control my own. Frozen, I am not proud of the way that I tried to make my point, but I felt that the demeanor of Patriot's post was far more offensive than my own...I never once had to use a dollar sign or any other symbol to express myself. In other words, I can still kiss my mother with my mouth, can your husband say the same?

By the way, Mr. Wondering is emailing Patriot his response so that we can let this thread die once and for all. We should be using this board as it was intended, and I would hate to think that some newbie is here reading this instead of seeking the help that he/she came here for...that said, I bid you adieu...

Mrs. Wondering Out!

P.S. Another great post by the good doctor Lem, btw...

Sorry, Lemonman, but you are way off base this time. Where did I once state that my feelings were hurt? My "feelings" were not hurt (wondering, though why you put the word feelings in quotations, as if to say they are invalid - I'm not sure).

Of course he doesn't need me to defend him. I did that of my own choosing. As a matter of fact, he was responding to The Wonderings post today until I walked into his office to give him the horrible news of his family member's passing.

I have never asked anyone here NOT to post to me because I didn't like what they had to say. If I don't like what they have to say, I have the choice to dismiss it if I feel it doesn't have merit. Sure, I have feelings, and I am open to expressing them. I am just as free to do that as you are to share your opinion. You and I obviously have different personalities and posting styles and while you may view mine as too emotional, I often view yours as lacking compassion at times where much compassion is needed. Both have their time and place.

I have also seen you show great compassion to some at other times. I understand that is your personality and accept that about you. I would appreciate the same kind of acceptance of my personality, but of course make no requirements of anyone here to do so. But that is not the subject or the point I was trying to make here.

Mrs. Wondering has the "freedom of speech" to blast away with snotty comments and personal attacks against Patriot. I will contend that I also have the freedom to point out that her comments were judgmental and rude.

Having a bad day does not excuse the behavior of someone making a personal attack on someone else. Patriot may have quoted Mr. Wondering's words as examples of the "mob mentality" that he felt so unjust with regards the original theme of this thread, but nowhere in his responses did he single any one person out. Perhaps if Mrs. Wondering, in her rough 4 am moment, had considered that others may, too, be having their own rough moments, she would have held back on making some of the judgments she made...perhaps not.

Either way, Mrs. Wondering's excuse for being "tired" in no way justifies her hateful comments to Patriot. The person on the receiving end of her snideness could very well be having a bad day of their own. It just so happens that the receiver of it in this case was having a pretty bad day of his own, and was otherwise occupied handling family matters. Those matters prevented him today from being "freely ready, able, and willing to hear differing opinions on them", as you suggest. He can handle it. He simply wasn't available today to do so.

My opinion on the matter is my own. As I said before, I have witnessed him having quite a load on his plate today and had absolutely no tolerance to stand idly by while someone personally attacked his character. Supporting my husband would only be "cutting him off at the knees" if i believed him to be incapable or unwilling to defend himself. He is obviously more than capable of doing that. I haven't done my defending in the nearly the same hateful manner that Mrs. Wondering defended her husband, which is all I was originally pointing out. Perhaps she is cutting him off Mr. Wondering at the knees?

By the way, I'm grateful you refrain from posting your "opinion" on a situation I may be dealing with if you determine that I may view it as callous or lacking compassion. Dealing with infidelity often comes with pain. I personally believe that a way to offer an opinion without causing further pain exists without making the decision not to post at all. If you find it is unnecessary or that you are unable to do that, then again...I do appreciate your refraining from doing so.

All parties involved have expressed their opinions on this subject. I have expressed mine as far as I care to, and my support of my husband is needed in another matter at this time. So, please forgive any lack of response to further opinions or comments on the subject.

[color:"red"] Patriot92,

As Mrs. Wondering pointed out in her last post to this thread, I was going to email this to you, but as I was not completely sure of your email address, I decided to go ahead and post here instead. Sorry to let my awaited rebuttal slide for so long. I was asleep early last night, in court all morning, and meetings with clients preparing for an upcoming trial most of the afternoon and evening. After I got home late and finally finished this post, somehow my computer went haywire and my original words were deleted-ARGH! I had to start all over, so unfortuantely, I have been unable to address your issues myself, until now. Mrs. Wondering has made a couple of very legitimate "fair is fair" posts. She is quite aware that I can adequately defend myself, and though she is more emotional than I, she was/is not deserving of any criticism regarding her defense of me. I have certainly seen Frozen passionately rush to your aide a few times here, as well. If there continues to be a dispute, I believe that we can keep this between just you and I (or the 4 of us if need be)-off the boards completely. I hope by expressing myself with more clarity herein, perhaps, at most, only a friendly debate will ensue.[/color]



[color:"red"]
Coach chose to leave. He is free to come back. Many of us overreacted that fateful night and learned a lesson as well. I was new here and believed the fabrication conclusion was a fact. My feelings expressed more elaborantly herein, are what I felt more adamently back then. I do not feel obligated to give Coach the benefit of the doubt. I also do not accept that because many, maybe, jumped to the wrong conclusion, that we are somehow responsible for running him off the boards. That is ridiculous. I know now that we’re not obliged to trust anyone here. If, and I say “IF” with strong emphasis, Coach chose or chooses to prove himself and his story then he’d have my sincere apology if HE really felt the need or want of it (which I find highly unlikely as I don’t know the man). I am not required by you or anyone else to apologize up front, or temper my honest feelings, just as he feels he doesn’t owe me or anyone here any explanation. [/color]





[color:"red"]
We were only "a$$es" IF the story he spun was fully true. But, since I personally said “IF” yesterday, then I was not being one of the so-called "a$$es" in my post. But you still saw fit to attempt to personally attack me, ridicule my feelings, villify my opinions and intimidate me to respect your vision of the board's reprehensible behavior unjustifiably. So I ask, “who was the "a$$" yesterday?"
[/color]



[color:"red"]His story was in fact ”outlandish”. As are many stories around here. The use of the term “outlandish” does not mean false, as you seem to believe. In short, it means bizarre. It was not meant to be judgmental, and I’m sorry that you chose to read it that way. Even Coach indicated his appreciation for how unbelievable his story was. So I can't for the life of me understand why he chose to be so distraught, hurt and amazed that others might not believe him. I would have laughed everybody off, much as Lemonman did when his factual history was temporarily questioned. How can you presume that Coach could be so affected by an internet discussion board? I further questioned his sincerity BECAUSE his responses appeared to me to be of a fictious nature. Why would anyone posting here feel so insulted that a few individuals did not trust them or, perhaps chose to question their alledged true stories, along with their asserted reactions to those aforementioned stories? It is my opinion, that Coach's reaction to these "questions" was actually a gross overreaction. This is especially true, as far as questions from a newbie, such as myself, are concerned. Not only had I, never posted to him, but was also not here, back when he was, apparently, espousing such sage wisdom and advice. Heck, for all we know someone, maybe his wife, highjacked his name and made up his entire story.

Your statement, “for all you know froz and patriot are just me” concedes the fact that every story on this forum is really unconfirmed. Hence, labeling Coach’s story as “unconfirmed”, is merely another statement of fact. Nowhere did I affirmatively state that his story was not real. I merely questioned it. Thus, Sir, your rant about my not being qualified is unwarranted, as well as, illogical. I do indeed still have serious doubts about Coach’s veracity regarding his story. His over the top (IMO) responses did nothing but solidify my hypothesis as far as I am concerned. I don't owe Coach my trust.[/color]


[color:"red"]
First, let me point out, yet again, that I said “if”. I am not presuming anything, merely stating that if he was making the whole story up and/or embellishing it dramatically, then it is my opinion that he did a great disservice to me. (In my original post, I did not mean to imply slight embellishments, but I did not feel it necessary to go into greater detail.) Shortly after my D-Day, when I found MB, his thread was consistently at the top of the boards, and appeared to be one of particular wisdom regarding MB principles. His thread served only to compel me to obsessively question, whether or not I wanted to stay married to Mrs. Wondering. While I do recognize that it is normal for a BS to question continuation of marriage when faced with the discovery of infidelity, I know that Coach's thread brought up issues surrounding this commonality, that I now know absolutely do not apply to my wife. Because of Coach's assertations, however, I was caused more duress than I was already subject to. Many BSes, like myself, are completely alone in making the difficult determination of just what to do. We intuitively or instinctively keep the affair a secret which further isolates us. My coming to this forum, and then shortly thereafter reading about what Coach was going through after 5?+ Years of recovery, really added insult to injury for me. The fear of additional affairs as dramatic in nature as his situations always seemed to be, at a time when I was already overwhelmed in dealing with the one that had just made it's catastrophic debut in my life, was almost more than I could bare. The way that he questioned his wife’s character and ranted about her "true nature" made me obsess about my wife’s character/nature, as she was acting so incongruently to the person that I had always known her to be. In retrospect, of course, I now recognize her foreign behaviors as FOG. At that critical point, however, I did not understand that this was the standard for a WS. I am not going to look up quotes or anything, but it is my opinion that Coach did not apply any productive MB principles towards his situation, or at least he was remiss in posting them in his thread, if he did. Had he have done this, his thread could have been used advantageously by newbies. They do come to Marriage Builders as a source of guidance and assistance in dealing with the dawning of infidelity in their own lives. While it wasn't Coach's responsibility to be a lighthouse for newbies, IF his story was not one of fact, he was indeed causing harm. Newbies do not recognize the "good" threads from the "bad", for them the path is so unclear, to steer them deliberately in the wrong direction would be more than irresponsible. If Coach was using this forum for storytelling, then any harm resulting from the telling of tales could most definitely be construed as deliberate. In reading his thread, I struggled with whether recovery, plan A, plan b, 180 plan, and MB was worth it. Fortunately for my family, I came upon my "truths" of my own volition, albeit his thread. However, if he deliberately fabricated the whole thing, I do resent that I was forced to come to my conclusions with his fabricated "bitterantments" (my word) running through my head. It is my genuine hope that there have been no "casualities of infidelity" based on the reading and following of examples within Coach's thread.

In conclusion, you cannot fully understand what I went through, so for you to belittle my feelings in defense of Coach’s feelings is hypocritical, especially since that is exactly what you are so vehemently opposed to. [/color]



[color:"red"]
Again, it is still my opinion that his story was, most likely fabricated or embellished greatly for literary design. However, I qualified my statements with an “If” from the very beginning. I, again maintain, that IF it was a fabricated story written for entertainment purposes then it didn’t belong here, posted as a fact. I, and many others I am sure, come here to read about how MB principles are practically applied in real life situations and to learn of the result of those applications. Your "knock" of my above quote is, quite simply, illogical. For instance, “Flowers in the Attic” was a disturbing and fictional book, but people were aware of it being fiction and read it to be entertained. On the other hand, the movie, “Schindler’s List” was a disturbing true story adapted for entertainment purposes. I went to see it to be entertained AND to become more educated. I went into that movie with the understanding that it was fact. Later, had I have found out that the producers of that film lied regarding it's factuality, I would have been annoyed to say the least. I further believe that if the producers had have done this, then they would have been guilty of commiting a community disservice. Facts are facts and stories are stories, the human brain processes and stores each accordingly. Conflict, as I'm sure you know, is created when something is presented as one thing and then turns out to be another. Do you, however, understand what the human psyche does with conflict? It gobbles it up, and then spits it out in the form of anxiety. Just what a BS needs, more anxiety. I did not come here to read a fake story under the ruse of legitimacy; and, I contend if it was fake, it was damaging to me and my state of mind at that time. However, if it wasn’t fake, then it was just a kernel of history in someone else’s life which I internalized and battled with. I concede this is a difficult point to make. Damaging if fake, not damaging if true, but that’s the way I see it, nonetheless.
[/color]



[color:"red"]This is perhaps my most difficult statement to defend, and also the last statement that I added. But, it is my opinion, that Coach purposely used writing techniques to "hook" his readership. His story asked no questions, discussed no MB principles and rarely had any dialogue. It was simply, his blog, which as Lemonman just pointed out, distracted the newcomers from receiving the help this board was intended to provide (IMO). I did read all over the board, but how many hours, minutes, seconds did I waste reading his prolonged story? Way to many, I can assure you. When I first found myself here, at Marriage Builders, I didn’t recognize reading Coach's thread as a waste of my time. It is only in being here awhile and becoming a pretty regular poster, that I have come to understand and appreciate the greatness of this community, which includes you and frozen, btw. It is my wish that I had understood and internalized the concepts set forth by this site more quickly, perhaps then I could cut short the misery that infidelity caused my family.[/color]




[color:"red"]Granted, but that does not mean I cannot have an opinion. You state yours rather freely. But as a newbie at the time I had to make that determination "on the fly" in the middle of the chaos that was my life then. I am a reasonable, logical, somewhat stoic man today, but the thought/possibility that Coach made this thread up irritated me to no end at that time. His thread popping up again was a trigger for me. I don’t believe that I have too many of those left, but apparently this remains one for me. As these are my feelings, you cannot deny them. As someone who posts on regular basis at the present, I am trying to learn to avoid these type arguments, as they are usually unproductive, especially when you know that your reader just doesn't get it anyway. I can already envision your splicing this post down to quotes and taking every piece of it out of context, as this seems to be your habit. I should have listened to Mrs. Wondering and just not have posted here. You can bet that I will take what Lemonman said in his previous post as advice, and avoid posting to you in the future to avoid the unintentional conflict that my doing so would likely cause.[/color]







[color:"red"]I didn’t ask or require him to prove anything. HE said that he would be back with, at least, wedding pictures, and thus my stated hope that he lives up to his words speaks for itself. Your inappropriate, unjustified and uncouth berating of me is the only "load of crap" that is plainly visible here.[/color]





[color:"red"]Based upon your ability to jump to conclusions, make inferences where nothing wrong was so implied, and attack others, I can surmise that your problems may be a little bigger than mine, and for that I am truly sorry. If your "M.O." is to create conflict where none exists, then you should speak with your counselor about this tendency. I am simply amazed at the audacity of your disrespectful judgments regarding me, under the guise of lecturing me for disrespectful judgments. Especially, where none exist. We are both in recovery so maybe some insight into this aspect of your personality and communication skill set will assist you in becoming a better husband and communicator. We are 4 individuals still here, helping others, committed to MB. Our energies should not be directed at prolonged attacks on one another, and Patriot, you have a history of instigating this type of discord. What is it about you? This is not a debate, your post was clearly designed to offend me as though you are superior in your thinking and humanity. I just don't get it. I don't particularly care, but I still just don't get it.[/color]





[color:"red"]Again, I said “If” he fabricated his story. I don’t know Coach from Adam, if he lied, then I’m ticked off (as you should/would be since you ran around with a loaded chicken mistakenly "defending" him), if not then I apologize for each and every disrespectful judgement or lovebuster that I am legitimately responsible for. I state this, of course, under the presumption that Coach (not you), wants or needs my apology. [/color]







[color:"red"]In the history of the internet nobody has ever been “destroyed” by anybody on a discussion board. I suggest that you are, again, ranking Coach’s feelings above mine. I am not placing my feelings or opinions above those of any other person here. I am just stating them. Take them as you may.[/color]







[color:"red"] If you are indicting yourself with this statement, then I share your sentiment, and concur.[/color]





[color:"red"]Ridicule?????? Farce????? I did not ridicule Coach and my feelings are not ludacris. The only absurdity that I see, is your post. The last time that I checked, Coach is a grown man, (or at least that is what he claimed to be-don't know for sure, do we?) and this is an open forum. People come and go as they choose. Just because Coach gave you a few "props" in his very last post did not mean that he was assigning you the duty of personal guard dog, in charge of him. I can assure you that Coach does not need protection from me. I live 1200 miles away from him, and am a very peaceful man. So at ease, Sir.
[/color]



[color:"red"]
A wise someone around here once said: “No amount of screaming and insulting is going to change one's views. In fact, I submit, for your approval (twilight zone joke there), that the more you scream and yell your opinion, the less you are heard and respected.”


Who was that someone? Sound familiar? Oh yeah, it was you, on a thread long ago.


Frozen – I believe you misread your husband's post. Patriot did in fact single me out. He twisted the words of my entire post line by line and illogically created his own crisis. Nobody else's quotes were brought in. My quotes weren't examples they were utilized for direct attacks on me. He certainly used the word “you” an awful lot. I’m sorry about the death in his family and that everybody seems to be having a bad day. All I want to do here is to take a stand against the apparent bully on the block where my wife and I are concerned. Maybe you're too close to the forest to see the trees, but my post yesterday did not, by any implication or open interpretation, unjustly attack Coach. Many here, legitimately question his story. With all due respect Frozen, it is my opinion that Patriot's post was not one worthy of your respect. He wasn't justly sticking up for anything except his own agenda (creating conflict, taking the unpopular opinion whatever you want to call it). I think that you should, perhaps take away his posting priveleges or at least stop him from trying to wordsmith his way out of situations of his own making. Just Kidding, seriously, I am just kidding on this.


Now, finally, why don't we just let this thread die. If Coach is ever to come back, perhaps it would be best for all involved, if he justed started a new thread. Though I do not understand your unjustified attack on me, I apologize for upsetting you so. If you feel you must have the last word and wish to attempt to justify your behavior or take me apart line by line then I propose that we take this off the board. You may email me directly at the address below. I hope that we do not have to further distract people that seriously need help here, with nonsense such as this.

Mr. Wondering[/color]
[color:"blue"]the_wonderings@yahoo.com[/color]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


Immediately looking down and lifting my shirt to expose my abdomen .... "ahhhhhhh" .... so scar <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

For those of you who remember Coach and are interested, he has obtained a legal seperation from his wife and is in the process of divorcing. He is doing very well and sends his regards to everybody here.

CKTC:

Hey! He just told me the same thing.


I wish he'd come back and change the title of this thread 2 something like:

"Laptops at Ten Paces!!!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

All states except Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, and Texas recognize legal documentation of separation.

He must be just separated because there is no legal separation in Florida.

Trix:

He said that he's signed a separation agreement that becomes a DV after a year if they do nothing.

-ol' 2long