Wonk - and if she doesn't see it - then you may need to work with her. keep on your recovery...change!

It's so complicated when you are both a WS and a BS...cause the BS needs to heal, but the WS in you needs to help your spouse heal. As much as you need to work on you - do so, but at home, maybe work on the M more to show Mrs.Wonk that you are helping her HEAL from your A. Maybe she will follow in your steps? Be the leader!

Well, I thought I did. In fact, I was doing a lot of what she "wanted" me to do but it wasn't what she "needed". That came AFTER the A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

She probably didn't know her needs then - I didn't know mine...so all the better reason for you and her to write those EN forms NOW and figure out what you both WANT out of this relationship!

Okay - I borrowed this from another thread - the most excellent Pepperband just posted it.


make sense?

Yes MAM!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Very good advice, though.



No comment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Whoops LOL - was I telling you guys what to do again? once again sorry if I did that lol - just making my point <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't mind - advice is what we are here for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I found a GREAT post from my dear friend Sally about communicating that I think mught help.

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Hi happypanda!
This is perfect! Don't forget to have a glass of water or juice too.

Quote:
Anyway, I managed to get half a bowl of grits down (sugar'd & butter'd) so I'm feeling a little better.


That's what I ate myself when I started to do a little better. Half for me and then I gave the rest to the Labs.

Yes, for the longest time, Phil and I argued in this manner too. We were always very civil, never raised our voices until this past year and we always tried to each get our point across respectfully but what I took away from it finally, was that Phil really wasn't listening to me (which I will come back to later in this post) and he *WAS* getting something out of it.

He got to act like he was in control -- not of me -- but of himself. He got to act rational even though that wasn't always how he felt. He got to feel just a little bit like he was above it all -- above losing his temper, above telling me what was really the problem, above telling me how horrible he really felt inside. All things that came out only recently.

This may not be at all like what you are experiencing, but one word really stood out for me:

Quote:
It's more like a debate (which, lol, he happens to be really good at, and I of course suck).


Quote:
Then we separated for about 10 minutes and both of us were calm and ready to deal with what had happened (debate style).


It was that you compare your talks to a debate. In a debate, each person takes a side; they oppose each other.
The first person to speak opens with a proposition - a short speech and the second person to speak, the opposition, also opens with a speech.

Then a second round of short speeches is repeated by the two opponents.

Then there are usually a few rounds of rebuttal between the opponents.

At the end of the debate, judges decide the winner based on how effective the speakers were at conveying the validity of the case presented.

Phil and I used to do this as a means of discussion and it's a bad trap. It all seems very civil and polite but the flaws are very real:

In a debate between two a wife and husband at home, there are no judges. You are the debaters and you are also the judges. This is not a good combination.

There can't be impartiality. You can't objectively listen to one another because you each are preparing or presenting your case to the other.

In a debate, you are not trying to sway your opponent. Your job is simply to present a better case with which to sway the judges. Think about a court of law...

So when you're debating, you're having a discussion involving opposing points of view (an argument) but there is no DIALOG or what I would consider an exchange of ideas.

One is deconstructive, the other constructive. I know it seems like a picky way of looking at things, but maybe this will help give you an idea of what I mean. Think about how you discuss things with your H now... you debate, it's very respectful, sometimes you're probably really tired when you're done talking.

Then think back on how you used to discuss things with your H a long time ago when you first started dating. You probably both talked and shared ideas and interrupted each other and it was not only not bad, it was fun right? You felt energized from being together. You shared opinions about things and learned from each other...

Phil and I really, truly thought we were doing a good job. I don't think he ever thought he was trying to put me down or that I was putting him down. It just turned out that we would have been better off if we'd continued to talk with each other more in the style of those early dates.

I think it was a something someone would have had to explain to us and there wasn't anyone to make that distinction when we needed it...

What do you think? Do you think there is anything to this or am I too far off base?? :-) Does this give you some ideas? If it does, maybe you could even discuss it with your H? Share some thoughts? Ask what he thinks?

Sally
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