How is he in the sack? How is he at meeting your needs?

paranoid...

it's a two way street. You expect him to acknowledge OS...yet you're afraid to bring it up. I'm afraid you might be getting yourself worked up over nothing but you don't know cause you have not discussed.

Here's a for instance. In my long dark marriage there was a time when my W would ONLY engage in SF when she was drunk. It went on for years. Made me feel great...I only brought it up as an LB...we never discussed it I would just seethe until I exploded with rage from being demeaned...

Now this is not the case as we recover. Have we engaged in SF after a few? Sure...however...it is an exception not the rule. She brought this subject up during reconciliation....something that before would have never happened...

Communication is the key...you're feeling bad about something you perceived (and remember perception is anothers reality) to be a huge insult. If a stranger insulted you or I did on here would you say something? then why not with your husband?? Will it be difficult...ABSOLUTELY...but none of this is easy is it??

I hoep I'm helping

Sorry I can't respond well as I have to go. I will be back tomorrow. Thanks.

paranoid, I very strongly second Send me on my Way.

and, quite frankly, i'm kinda disappointed that more of the posters didn't take this angle as opposed to advice on the specific topic.

you are conflict avoiding and that will get you no where.

My advice (and i am sorry i did not see this yesterday).

1. Pray. In your prayer, tell God you forgive your H for the pain you have felt. and seriously forgive him!!!! offer up the pain you have felt to God, leave it at the cross. feel the forgiveness you are offering up. just as we are forgived.

once you are very sure that you have done #1 completely then you are ready for the next step.

TALK TO YOUR HUSBAND. if you are nervous about talking face to face, write him a note. and at the top of the note tell him you were nervous about talking face to face and that is why you are writing instead. tell him your goal is to COMMUNICATE. tell him why you believe total openness is so important. let him know you are not mad and that you are not saying he did something wrong. keeping him at a place were he can listen to you without jumping into defenisve mode is key.

then tell him how you FELT and ask him what was going on with him.

maybe some will say, how can you tell her to forgive before finding out the details. well, that is what God teaches us to do. she does not even know for sure what happened with him. it is too early for her to be mad at him.

It is certainly not too early for her to feel hurt but it is her hurt to own not her H's. not until she communicates with him and gives him an opportunity to know exactly what she felt due to the event and then responds. if he is insensitive, guess what, you need to forgive that too and then communicate more.

this is my very strong yet humble opinion.

i hope it can be helpful in any way.

Send/FL-

You both are right that I need to communicate this with my H. I first came here with the question in case the situation happens to a lot of men (unfortunately it does not). Since this is the second time I am bringing up this exact LB to my H (first time he said I "didn't do it for him anymore" due to my wieght gain) it seems more difficult to bring it up without sounding like a nag. I would love to write him a letter (I can express my feelings more tactfully that way) but every time (no exaggeration) he doesn't respond to it. He just says don't worry about it or it's no big deal.

I honestly was planning on bringing it up last night but he cam ehome form work yesterday saying his day was worse than hell (not good timing to talk about SF).

I did however stay cheerful and supportive. I hope to be able to bring it up tonight (at least before the next time we have SF- if not- I know I will old back). Thanks for the objectivity. Sometimes I just need a 2 x 4.

You must be so hurt by his reaction (or no reaction I should say) after you have been trying so hard to please him. Does he go out of his way to please you?

Sounds like you have done so much to make him desire you. Losing weight, trying new sexual things.

I would talk to him about this and find out what is going on. He may have a very simple answer "yesterday was a bad day at work, I was dead tired." Maybe from now on he could stop you BEFORE you start and let you know he is tired?

I actually HAVE had this happen before....LOL, not with my husband, but a previous relationship, and the guy started snoring......it was a gigantic kick to my ego, and I actually never really did it again for anyone, including my husband until about 6 or 7 months ago, so I understand where you're coming from.

My BF at the time had just come home from VA where he was stationed, and in his defense, he did warn me he was exhausted....but it still made me feel like I wasn't great in that particular area, and he NEVER DID get it again.

-Caren

boy can i relate to that!!! my H is good at the no response thing. to which i now tell him how it feels when he does not respond at all and/or what I conclude when he does not respond and then ask him if my conclusions are right.

I still encourage you to write a letter. draft it up here and I'ld be happy to give any feedback.


in that letter you need to state very clearly, this is a big deal to you. but again, i cannot say this enough, you have to have the tone of the letter such that it is very clear you are not mad at him or trying to beat him up but that you are wanting to communicate with him in order to grow closer.

that was very nice of you to wait, but don't not do this!! it will not help you guys in the long run!!!

can you give him the note at a time when he can read it and think about it some before you are face to face with him? also, something we were told at Retrouvaille, ask him to read it twice, once for the head and once for the heart.

Retrouvaille is a great program when it comes to working on communication skills, especially in the area of communicating feelings.

i didn't mean to 2x4 you!!! but you are very welcome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This board is awesome!!

Although I am fortunate enough to not have experienced infidelity, it is such a great resource for me to get advice on important issues (without involving family or mutal friends). I need to objectivity of all of you in order to better relay my feelings to my H without DJ's or LB's.

I do plan to talk to him about this (hopefully tonight he is in a better mood).

However, I have another question-

Since the beginning of the year I have been doing my own plan A (reducing LB's, trying to meet his EN's). Since then my EN for affection has been fulfilled (wasn't before- my theory is Affection/SF are closely related for my H)

Anyway- I still am greatly lacking in other areas (Conversation and Admiration) The latter he actually LB's a lot.How do I approach him with my EN's without sounding like he's not adequate? Or wihtout sounding liekI'm trying to change him (which is completely out of my control anyway).

FL-

I will draft a letter- sorry I have to get back to work (shame on me). I should be back soon.

first, i want to make sure you saw my last post to you, in case you missed it since you posted at the same time.

regarding your new question....

what EXACTLY would fill your need for conversation. it is one thing to say "i want conversation" it is another to "see" it in such a way that you can make it happen. how exactly would you like to converse? once you can see it happening, you can work on making it happen.

for me, a high EN is companionship (and really conversation is part of that). playing a game or two of backgammon has been a very huge thing for me. we don't play every night, but we play pretty often. it does not even have to take that long, and while we play, we can talk some too.

my ideal situation is with the TV off and music/candles on. this scenerio does not happen as often (tv is usually on) but i have learned to deal with that ok. many times, i truely do have his undivided attention while we play. i guess that is the key, i want times where i have his undivided attention.

a lot of evenings as we go to bed, i ask him how his day was. and he started out with "ok" for the most part. but then i'll ask something more specific, how was the golf game? what was the score? any birdies... stuff like that, now i find him more and more offering up stories of his day.

there have been times at the dinner table that i would say, ok, everyone tell me one story about your day. it started out as something i did with the kids when H was not there with us (don't ask me why, i used to be so much more comfortable when he was not there). and we would have some great conversations. then i finally started doing it with the kids while my H was home with us and he now will share stories during dinner too.

none of this happens everyday, but it happens a whole heck of a lot more than it used to.

so start brainstorming for your scenerio. the trick is to not come across like you said, looking like you are putting him down. because that is not what you are trying to do, right? you are trying to communicate to him what makes you happy. the key is to do it in a small way at the beginning and let it grow into more.

great suggestions FL!! The T.V. is my worst enemy- once dinner is done, my H goes to his "cave" and watches T.V. I watch T.V. with him just in order to be able to be in the same room. When I suggest cribbage or something, he uaully answers no thanks.
Last weekend my H wanted to go to the casino. But since we couldn't find another couple to go with he didn't want to go. I suggested we go anyway (just the two of us) and he said he likes going with another couple (So you can hang out and talk)
It's things like that that are so disheartening (I feel not good enough to be a recreational companion)

I think my best bet is to ask more specific questions about his day. I long for the day he asks me how my day was.

gosh- reading back at this, it sounds like a pity party. I need to focus on what I can do to make me happy. I know I have the control, but I so want to be wanted.

sorry, no pity parties allowed here!!! but i do understand, we all want to feel loved and wanted. we want to be able to believe that our H's do in fact enjoy our company. i know, i could go on and on about how similar our stories might be. but it won't help you.

because the fact remains... you need to focus on what you can do to make you happy. i'ld do you more good by saying... keep on trying!!!

i would love to see your marriage grow BEFORE anything terrible happens!!! it's something i wish so much i knew how to do before. i swear, i really did try to be a good wife and love him. i still can get frustrated thinking about it. yes, i cheated on him even before we were married, yes, i had an A about 4 yrs into the marriage too. and i realize i cannot discount the damage that done even though he did not know about it, but i still whole-heartedly believe that between 1992 (when we lost our daughter) to 2001 (when my dad got sick and then died and i fell completely apart), i tried my hardest to be a good wife and mom!!! and all that i got for my efforts was a very unconnected H.

i don't know how old you are, but i'm guessing you are younger than me. and i'm thinking not married for as long either. i base those stmts off of the fact that i have not heard you talk about kids. so i'm guessing you don't have any yet?

now here is another thought... don't forget the other side of it. what can you do to help your husband feel loved today?? so here is another assignment to put on your list. and don't try telling me you don't know what helps your H feel loved.

does he have a favorite treat? i went to the bakery this morning and got a few mini-eclears for him to wake up to, along with a "happy birthday note". i realize it may not be your H's b-day today, but you can put a "love ya" note on it instead. does your H like foot rubs? mine loves them. out of the blue, while he is watching tv, get out some lotion and give him a foot rub. and i think you should specifically say, i got/did this for you today because i wanted you to feel special. just be careful to not need him to react in any specific way. i struggle with that sometimes but when i finally stopped worrying/waiting for him to thank me or tell me how nice that was, not only did i enjoy doing the little things for him more, but i also am now finding him thanking me. still not always, still not immediately, but the trick is to be ok with it anyway. and as time goes on, you learn what he likes the most.

yes, i would love to chuck the old TV out the window too. both my H and my son would probably fall over dead. My daughter on the other hand would be thrilled as much as me. she bearly watches anything and even she gets annoyed when it is just always on in the background!!!

just make it small steps. approach it in a way that is not you saying something like.... you never go out with just me!! say, i would really love to go out with just you on this day (and make specific plans) if that day does not work, ask him what do would work. if he won't give you anydate. tell him how that makes you feel. tell him, it is your choice to not want to go out with me but i need you to know, it hurts me and i don't understand. and if he says, it's no big deal, just keep repeating with out LB's, it is a big deal to me. i miss your company, i miss doing things with you. don't be a nag, don't be a quiet enabler either.

I don't mean to thread jack but won't be here long, so sorry in advance.

FL: Just stopped in to check on the board for about the first time in 4 months or so. Got caught up in reading your responses to paranoid. You sound like you are in such a better place than then. Congratulations!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Oh no.Not the "cave man" scenario.Ugh.That would make me upset although I realize men need to zone out alone sometimes(so do I) but I just think as women if that is all they do and disconnect entirely then there is a problem.

Also,I can't believe people actually fall asleep during any kind of sex.Unless you are in a drug induced coma,that is bad news and so disrespectful.But,my WH once started cracking his knuckles when giving oral to him and I knew he was far,far away probably thinking about the homewrecker(during one of our false recoveries)and that was it.I stopped, looked him straight in the eye and "confronted" him.Of course he came up with some lame excuse but it was obvious he wasn't into it so then,neither was I.

paranoid,it was also disrespectful of your H to say that you don't do it for him anymore.What a slap.He could have discussed this more caringly.But I do agree,you need to address the concern right away.Many couples do what you are doing now: avoid the conflict,let is simmer then grow and the next thing you know you've dragged many other issues into the mix and then you have a firestorm of emotion.

**Always address an issue right away or relatively soon after it happens if you must put some thought into it first.This,IMO,is the best and most effective way to resolve problems and live a healthy life.Don't let issues take root in your marriage.

Good luck

O

FL-

Actually I've been married 9 years with two daughters (4.5 and 1 yr old).

I like the baby steps approach. Just concentrate on making him feel loved. I'm pretty busy today so I don't know when I'll be back. I'll keep you posted. Thank you very much!!

Somebody emailed me a link to this thread finding it an interesting topic...LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (and no it WASN'T my W)

Since you are all being so candid, what the hell, I'll bite! (ABSOLUTELY no pun intended). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

To answer your question, Yes. Actually it happens quite frequent. Usually when I'm tired. It's not that it's boring, I've been with many women and recieved OS from most of them and I'm tellin ya my wife is better at it than any of them, so "boring" is not an issue. Actually I even prefer it over intercourse. I can't stress enough how UNboring it is..LOL Just sometimes it's very relaxing and when you have had a long day of stress and your up late, it's a recipe for a visit to never never land.

My W never finds it offensive and infact loves that she has relaxed me and that I sleep well.

Question for you - Is OS an everytime or everynight thing? For us it is and I'm sure if it wasn't I wouldn't fall asleep.

So in my opinion, don't take offense.

P.S. Not sure if age has anything to do with it. It happens more as I'm getting near 40.


Edited to add: The "you don't do it for me anymore" comment was in the past right? During his A?

Racer- thanks fo rhte response. Honestly- I had no problem that night that he perhaps fell asleep.Fine.But there was no acknowledgement the next day that it ever happened (that is what made me feel direspected).

Today I am in a much better frame of mind. Not as upset about it. I do plan on talking with him tonight. Maybe ask him if he'd like a repeat/continuation of the other night.

No it's not an everyday occurrence but OS is always part of foreplay but OS doesn't always mean intercourse.

I like performing OS. It satisfies me. So I guess whether he likes or not, I enjoy it and can continue to do so just for my own SF. I guess I just needed to iron out my wrinkled ego to see the brighter sid eof the whole situation.

racer- sorry, I totally missed the last line of your post.
the comment was made last fall- however no evidence of an affair. I was 25 pounds heavier after baby #2.

Your welcome paranoid. I understand what your saying about him not mentioning it the next day. Have you considered that he may not even remember? I can't explain it but falling asleep in this way puts you into some kind of strange utopia and if he's like me, he slept very deeply causing a kind retroactive memory loss. When this happens my wife has to sometimes remind me of what happened, usually by teasing me.

My W is like you, Performing OS is enough for her on occasion. Never really did understand that one...LOL.

If you REALLY want to get his attention, finish what you started in the morning beforw he wakes. NOW thats an alarm clock!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Do I hear justuss' footsteps? Quick, everybody hide!