SS:

I'm reasonably happy. Look forward 2 the next day. Getting more work done, but could stand 2 do better in that area.

Wondering what 2 do? Some, but mostly not. I care enough about her 2 let her figure out what she wants in a reasonable amount of time. I feel no sense of urgency 2 find out what that is NOW, anymore, so that if it's the "friendship" I can rush out there and start dating again.

No, if I get DV'd at some point, me and my telescopes are going 2 spend some time under a dark sky touring the universe for a while... relationship stuff can wait a LONG time, 'far as I'm concerned...

-ol' 2long

relationship stuff can wait a LONG time, 'far as I'm concerned...

SS thinks on this, and wonders if 2long will think the same when the girls are hitting on him.

OK,
What's a reasonable amount of time?
Is that a fair question?

SS

Girls?

I haven't seen a "girl" since my daughter's wedding, and they were all 2young! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Oh yes, you are still married for now. I know better than to believe it would stay quiet once the signs went up.

I'd have to send you a stick.

SS

OK - how can one find transcripts or video clips from this series?

A "woeful recovery", I like that. 2, as you know I finally called OM and thought I delivered a fatal blow to the EA. That was a week ago today, and already I FEEL certain she has made contact to smooth things over. So my point is simply to concur; you'll know!

I didn't see the Today piece but I was watching GMA when they talked about Brad Pitt having an EA with Angelina Jolie long before leaving Jennifer Aniston. While our W's pretend this doesn't exist for our benefit they know in their hearts that it is the most amazing thing that ever happened to them. So it's ALMOST comical that they have to pretend for our sake.

Very quickly, I want to relate a story that underscores my point. About 2 years ago while I was getting the sh$t kicked out of me I went out with my father and my very young female assistant coach to a fundraiser for our daughters soccer team. I purposely brought my father along as this was in a bar and I wanted W to feel safe. I can tell you that W was sooo cold to me and so upset that I went out with this girl that that alone confirmed that I wasn't crazy. That an EA really could hurt as bad as I thought it did. This allowed me to seperate the ONS from the EA and realize one is as bad as the other. Your W knows this but she can't let you know she knows it. That would be like saying "come over here 2long, it's time for me to give that knife if your back another quarter turn to keep you sharp".

WOE

Mark:

If you go 2 msnbc.com and search for something like "emotional affair" under the Today Show listing, you should find it. I got a link to a video online, but since I'm on a Mac, I couldn't open it. If you're on a PC, it should work fine.

If you find transcripts somewhere, be sure 2 let me know. I'll keep looking when I can, 2.

-ol' 2long

WOE:

In some ways, I think I even expect that my W has had contact with RM since I found the emails from April. I sense signs, but there are also signs of uncertainty - like she doesn't want 2 risk losing our M. Definitely there's internal conflict going on.

Funny, I saw an interview with Jolie months ago where she vehemently denied she'd have any A with a M'd man. Wonder if she ever heard of an EA, or compartmentalized it out of her dictionary or something?

I've never knowingly gone somewhere with a woman my W might have any reason 2 be jealous of. Nevertheless, after d-day she told me about THREE that she thought I might have an A with, given the chance. The first 2 were long ago, and I did have crushes on them for a time, but I didn't think they ever knew it, and i certainly avoided being alone with them. The third was a surprise 2 me. I had no attraction 2 her at all, though some said she had some for me. No matter, nothing was going 2 ever happen.

Still, I can't imagine putting my W through that kind of anxiety, no matter how "useful" a learning experience it might wind up being.

EAs are definitely the worse of any kind of outside intimacy. My W is starting 2 realize that fully, and she and her Egyptian River are resisting it all the way.

-ol' 2long

My W is definitely coming out of the fog. She's maybe 2 quarters of the way, I guess, assuming the fog is something like a year thick.

This am, she told me she spent most of the day yes2rday crying. ...after the interview about EAs.

We had a very level, even-keeled, frank and earnest convo about a lot of things this am.

You know how a lot of us BSs are paranoid about contact going on behind our backs, even after being assured that it's not (perhaps multiple times)? Recently the tables have been 2rned, though it wasn't something I had anything 2 do with (I ac2ally found it kind of funny, and told her so, but not in a patronizing manner). While she was at her OOSP during June, HF told her (via email), that RM told her that someone used my W's email 2 send RM a message saying "I'm at OOSP." My W and HF have been speculating all this time whether it was ME, or one of YOU, hacking her account and "setting her up" somehow for me 2 trap her. ??? I couldn't make sense of it at all for a bit, but I did assure her that I, and none of you (even if you knew her email addy), would do something like that. The other speculation they were entertaining was that one of her s2dents, who used her computer while out there, may have done it, either deliberately or inadvertently somehow... ...and I pointed out 2 her another possibility - that RM made the whole thing up! (which may or may not be the case - I don't care).

Overall, though, we had a good conversation about what we've both learned from our experiences. She doesn't want a DV, I can tell, but she doesn't want 2 live in "fear" of what I may or may not do down the line, either. I tried 2 make the point, without DJing, that the fear is all internal, it's not something I'm causing her 2 feel. Same goes for me.

I'm ac2ally not afraid of much anymore. We talked about our counseling experiences a bit, because she asked me if I'm coaching or ICing like we talked about in June, and I said "no. Right now, I'm not feeling the need for IC or coaching, but I'd be happy 2 participate in MC if she'd like at some point.

She mentioned our 30th anniversary coming up in Dec, and I reminded her of what she said at our first MC over 3 years ago: "Let's take things a day at a time and see where we are by our 30th anniversary. Maybe we'll want 2 renew our vows then." She said she still feels like that's a good approach. And so do I. So: We have a timeline. And so I expect, by this time next year, I will be a FREE MAN, one way or the other - Either a happily married man free of the threat of infidelity, or a happily single man out under the stars with one of my telescopes and a case of good, dark beer (amber ales are okay, 2).

...the other "news" was that HF's company will likely get the job that RM is on the proposal for, because the company that she and my W used 2 work for (and that RM consulted for when the 2nd A started in 2000) is not a favorite 2 the insti2tion who's doing the contract selection. She asked me what I thought about that, given that she and HF have been planning on having HF interact with RM when needed (starting about a year after the work starts in a month or 2), because my W "promised 2long that I wouldn't have any direct contact with him".

What do you kids think? I know what I think. ...what I told her was, "I'll have 2 give that some serious thought. I'm not happy about it, though."

My thinking currently is "absolutely not", but I need her 2 have time 2 ponder the other stuff we discussed and see if she might come 2 the realization that even that arrangement likely won't "work for me", on her own.

I feel good 2day.

-ol' 2long

Oh, and HF dropped about 20 notches in my "cool" book. She said 2 my W "well, since your being accused, you might as well go ahead".

We had a long talk about doing things out of spite (my W initiated, and acknowledged that's a factor in how the A started), and agreed that it's no way 2 live life.

HF is paranoid about being away from home for any length of time (from back east), because her H is a university professor around a lot of s2dents... (sound familiar? My W and RM started their first A in grad school, in a dept where at least 3 profs were having As with s2dents).

At least my W has learned something from her experiences. I'm afraid HF will have 2 learn the hard way, just like most of the rest of us have...

-ol' 2long

2long,

Very interesting - what a great discussion you had!!!

Regarding H's comments about if you're being accused, you may as well do the deed....sheesh - that's about as immature as you can get!

2, you don't even need to ask the question of what we think. I deal with the sh$t. If W can't talk to OM directly she'll keep up through mutual contacts. It just adds that much more time to withdrawal. What finally moved me to action is the fact that I am also no longer afraid. And I knew W is simply pining to go to Las Vegas for National Pool Finals so she can see some friends. Now even this CAer knew enough to draw the line in the sand on that one.

I guess there isn't a lot you can do about HF being the go between but maybe just lay it out there for W if she's willing to "hear" you. That it hurts and it sucks. I have finally gotten away from telling W what hurts me because she really can't know that. So I tell her the more concrete information that it's wrong and disrespectful. She can say it "shouldn't" hurt me but she can't say it shouldn't be wrong to call my former lover or it shouldn't be disrespectful. Those points are in stone. My feelings may come and go. In other words it's hard to argue the gray but not the black and white.

2long,

I wish what your W has contracted was contagious.

Remember our parents exposing us to chicken pox? Think it might work similarrly if I exposed FWW to yours?

PS: How was the conference?

2long,
It makes me feel better to read that your W spend some of yesterday crying. Maybe she can and will get it. I hope so.

A person that does things that cause such pain needs to know, and needs to cry about it. I hope it helps to heal her, it is long overdue.

I still worry about contact, not that I think the A will rekindle, but that it will hinder her efforts in coming out of the fog. I really hope she doesn't see him, I wish she would stay away from contact with all her heart. That would tell you what you want to know too.

I saw a rainbow yesterday, the full arch. It made me feel good somehow, and gave me faith - to see that come out of the storm that had raged moments before. I hope you two get your own rainbow, one that lasts forever.

SS

I think the middleman approach 2 "contact" is wrong, 2. I think she's going 2 realize it's wrong as well.

Look. There is really no reason for her 2 even take this job. She's going 2 be teaching 2 classes this fall, and they've already expressed an interest in supporting her field school idea next summer. She's adjunct, but someday she may become staff. Even as an adjunct faculty member, between my full-time and her part-time work, we've got enough 2 get by, even comfortably. The "new" job will want her full-time, and though they've agreed 2 let her work part-time, and some out of the home, the pressure will never be off in that environment - I know it well (as does she).

She's 50, I'm 52. Retirement ain't all THAT far off, and if she can spend more time between now and then getting her OOSP plans well under way, we can have a lot of fun in retirement.

But if there's any more RM in her life, even years downrange, I want 2 be elsewhere. It's just that simple. At this point, though, with her just "waking up" perhaps, I can objectively observe the process for a while longer before making fateful decisions of my own.

...but I may take a week vacation alone at the beginning of Sept. 2 attend a scope thingy... just for the fun and peaceful soli2de...

-ol' 2long

2long, I understood your lack of enthusiasm for the song I sent W. And I'm sure it will ricochet off her armor suit like everything else. But there is a line in the song that kinda says where I have gotten to. "you stole away my dreams, and made me realize I can walk into the sun and still be ME".

Failing was never an option; BEFORE. I know this is your thread but here's the latest that no amount of dark beer will solve. We are invited to a "pool team" wedding in Sept. I have told W I probably won't go, though I admire the couple getting M'd. She said OM probably won't be there. W and the groom left this team a while ago but most of the team will be there AND seated together so it makes sense that OM would get swept onto the invite list. So I face the prospect of sitting at a table with W and OM (wish I knew how to do the rolly eyes icon). The knockout punch is that today W tells me the invitation came. I asked "when do you need to respond" trusting she knew I was still contemplating. She said "I don't know". Well I picked up the card and saw that she had already filled in "2" will attend. Talk about disrespect. The haymakers seem to be having ZERO effect on her. Anyway if I do go you have my word I will get up from the table and leave the wedding WITHOUT my W if he is there.

You talk about wasting my breath all these years. BTW I said nothing when I looked at the card. Didn't feel like starting a fight this early.

WOE:

Good not 2 get in2 a fight, particularly one you start. Better 2 find another way 2 address your concerns - tell her your thoughts.

I bet she just checked off the box in the event you do agree 2 go 2 the wedding. At least that's possible, isn't it? Or did she inform them you'd both go already?

-ol' 2long

I've been thinking a bit about the discussion yes2rday about renewing our vows (or making new ones, or defining our relationship, or whatever).

One phrase that MUST be included will be a restating of "forsake all others", possibly with the addendum "starting with Rat Meat".

-ol' 2long

Forsaking Rat Meat means she becomes a vegan, right?

...I had a response in mind, but it's definitely not MB!

-ol' 2long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />