Imanother1,

Right now I recommend on reading the books and getting MC time with Steve. Let him know both of you read and post here.

As for false recoveries, we can discuss this later. Safe to say whenever you do not feel safe, the Xws s/b notified in a civil manner (be nice) and see what he does. His actions will determine whether your hunches are right or not. If he is a good actor, it may take longer but the smarter you get the harder it w/b to fool you.

L.

I'm sorry that my not firmly deciding hurts BW, and only makes the A worse. I just dont know where my head is at, im confused, I dont know if we should rebuild or if this is overly optimistic. From posts here it seems possible that even Saddam could build a marriage with Laura Bush. I'm just unsure its the right thing to do, since we have ended up hurting each other so much already.

Toolman,

Please read Trueheart's letter to the WS. Trueheart was a WS himself. He wrote the letter to my WS and mine read it but was too fogheaded to appreciate it at the time.

You though are not that fogged anymore. Please read it and se e if you can see the light.

Your confused state is part of the healing process. U willing to stick through the withdrawal and all it's yuckiness to make it to real recovery? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hoosiers Win! Barely. 20-13. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> , Then proceeded to lose $200.00 at the Soaring Eagle Casino. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mr. Tool (j.k.)

You do not have to fully commit to making the marriage work today or tomorrow. All that's needed is a commitment to trying. An internal acknowledgement that to "not try" will only lead to regret someday. Regret for you, your kids and your wife.

Additionally, how often in your life have you tried to do something and failed. If you're like me, almost never. My marriage, I thought, was one such failure. I tried to convince myself that it wasn't my failure but hers. Unfortunately, it does not work like that. You see, before my wife's affair, I had just given up. I was paralyzed. Up til then I'd lived a pretty charmed life and bad things didn't happen to me. I did not think I (or anyone for that matter) had the emotional skills necessary to make my wife happy. She was certainly not making me happy as well (though I buried that fact so I did not have to acknowledge that attempting to make her "happy" (i.e.-meet her EN's) was a marital commitment).

So I found myself headed for either a divorce, an affair of my own (we're all susceptible), or my wife's affair. Given our personalities I believe we were fortunate it was my wife who was given the first tempting enough offer to stray. So your the one that strayed in your marriage. How's that going to work for you guys. Understand, your wife has expressed the same reservations you have about your relationship. She has serious doubts about whether she really wants to stay married to you. To you right now she seemingly appears as an insecure, nagging, complaining wife/mother that maybe nobody in their right mind could get along with. Part of this is because you've been off getting your super-ego boosted by OW amd having every justification and rationalization praised and reinforced for the last few months. Perhaps your first fog clearing thoughts should include, as I see it, that as far as BS's go here on the boards she has been one of the most level headed, self-adjusted, self-assured BS's I've seen. Not once, did she write "Boo-hoo...What am I going to do without Mr. Tool" instead she developed a plan for what she was going to do without you. Not as a plot to sabotage you but as a way to protect your family from your bad choices. I hope you will soon come to realize and appreciate what a strong women you CHOOSE so many years ago and thank God she was willing to take you back.

So I encourage you to get with the program. MB's has performed miracles in mine and many marriages. My WW spent about 1 month in withdrawal after a 3-4 month affair. However, it was around the 2 month mark in recovery where she really "got it". You can read some of her thoughts if you search our initial posts/threads and see how she progressed in more current posts.

My wife now believes she was only seeking things from her OM that she wishes she could have received from me. I was her preferred choice. Because I now know what her EN's are, I meet them to the best of my ability and with time she has been able to trust that and is making strides to meeting mine.

Like you today, we were at one time both convinced we could never meet each others emotional needs. Ours too, are polar opposites. We both ran around for years trying to please the others emotional needs that we ourselves so drastically needed. The level of frustration was apparent to both of us. As stated, we were headed for divorce, so I thought and so she feared. Fortunately, I found MB and together we are learning and practicing how to become the husband & wife we always dreamed we'd be. You've got to try.

In conclusion, I believe you are going to try. I already hear it in your posts, behind the fog. You're too proud and succesfull of a man to fail without giving it your best shot. As a man, you should also like following a plan. The MB path is best known narrow path to recovery. No guarantees; but, you certainly can not do it on your own. I already envision you'll eventually become a welcome addition to these boards as well as an intelligent WS.
This place is addictive and maybe it will give you something healthier to do on your next business trip(s).

Good luck, Mr. Wondering (just a rambling man today - maybe my worst post ever - thoughts all over the place - sorry, I tried to clean it up)

PS - You guys had asked about "False Recovery". One very likely way to have a false recovery is when the BS about 8-12 months into recovery starts up their own affair. Mrs. Toolman will soon become the most likely spouse to have an affair. You might presume that's the case because us BS's want revenge. No, it happens because wayward spouse's in recovery just want to bury it and move on as a silent condition to getting back together. For example, if you continue to feel justified, don't want to talk about your affair honestly and openly, allow Mrs. Tool to have the perception that she's just lucky to have you back, if you take and appreciate that Mrs. Tool is now meeting your needs, BUT FAIL TO PROCESS THAT YOU EVENTUALLY NEED TO PLAN A AND MEET HER EMOTIONAL NEEDS AS WELL, then you risk Mrs. Tool seeking and getting her EN's met elsewhere.

Great post Wonderings! Thank you for a boost when we're both feeling a little low. BTW--Headline: Indiana leads the Big 10 in NCAA--(Football?). You guys should go 3-0 before you start hitting skidsville in conference play. H and I are both Florida Gators, and I'm trying to talk H into going to the Fla-Tenn game in two weeks (w/o kiddies). When the rest of the Big 10 starts to make fun of you, just tell them to remember Roundball and the Hoosier legacy. One other BTW: H and my individual shrink is also a rabid Hoosier--should we view that as a good thing, or should we think he approaches R's like Bobby Knight?

OH NO imanotherone, I (Mrs. Wondering) was going to post to your hubby in a little while since I am the FWS and might be able to give some perspective that he will "get"...but now, being that I am from Georgia...and a Dawgs fan...and you know what we say, "IT'S GREAT TO BE A GATOR HATER"...I just might have to reconsider...HA! HA! I will definitely post to him when I get a chance...BUT...

Q: Do you know what you get when you cross a pig with a Gator fan?

A: NOTHING, there's some things a pig just won't do! Tee Hee...Just Kidding!

How's it going today?

Mrs. Wondering

Mrs. Wondering--
Surprising that you guys have animosity for the Gators. We have a reputation for whipping up on Penn State or any other Big 10 "also-rans." Besides, most folks don't hate the Gators--they hate Steve Spurrier. Since he's helping South Carolina now, you can redirect your hatred.

H and I have had a decent day today so far. No fights, and we took the kids out for a long bike ride to the park, and over to see some playmates and their parents. (Trying to see functional families, so we can try to model their behavior, I guess.)

My WH needs to get off his duff and do some posting. Maybe you can offer him some sage words that it's worth pursuing, as a FWS. He is reading all the posts!

-Yes, Toolman, sadly, sometimes it takes this kind of shock for either person to realize what went wrong. It's why at times you will read about couples in recovery saying that the A was the best thing that could have happened to their M. Very weird, I know...

Here's where you are...

You now stand in a place where you have the opportunity to have the most fulfilling relationship of your life. This is the "jumping off point" for you AND your W FINALLY, truly "getting" what marriage was supposed to be all along. If you let it, this can be the catalyst that will allow both of you the biggest "A-HA Moments" of your lives. It's now that you can start to understand what it means to be "one"...it's caring, I mean REALLY caring for each other just as much as you do for yourself...the analogy that Mr. Wondering and I use is this: Just as you would NEVER slam your own hand in the door, you now start to apply that same rationale regarding the hand of your spouse...YOUR SPOUSE"S HAND(read feelings and needs) MUST BECOME JUST AS IMPORTANT TO YOU AS YOUR OWN! You must begin to see each other as an extension of yourselves. The intimacy that is achieved when this much care is given to the other is immeasurable...it is like nothing that either of you has ever experienced, you can be sure...Suddenly you will find yourself saying, "A-HA, so this is what it was supposed to be like!"


-Okay, so obviously you had S...but S does NOT equal SF...Toolman, what you have to see here is not that the actual "act/s" occured, but rather that even though it/they did indeed happen, "I'm" didn't feel that you were having "erotic" thoughts of her...she just felt that you were either there to procreate or that she was better than no S at all to you...I think what she was trying to say was that she hasn't felt that you have truly desired HER since her first pregnancy started to show...that you were just there to satisfy your own physical urges...desiring S is not the same as desiring it with HER because of HER...make sense?


I'm not sure of your exact meaning here...I think you either mean...

1. You didn't really seek out an affair, it just happened.

OR

2. You aren't looking at the OW as the ideal mate, just as a diversion of sorts, from your unhappy marriage.

So, I'll address both...let me know if you meant something else entirely, and we'll cross that bridge later...

If it is #1, Okay, I understand this as a FWS myself...it just so happened that she was in the "right" place at the "right" time. So, you didn't choose her...that's good, but at one time you did CHOOSE your W...think back, why did you choose her? That person IS still there, even if you can't (and I'm sure that you can't) see it right now, but trust me, she does still exist. You fell in love with your W then, and I SWEAR IT CAN AND WILL HAPPEN AGAIN...only it will be better this time, because you will begin to see marriage from a higher plane. Toolman, I know that you aren't ready to believe this yet...I can almost hear all of the excuses now running through your mind as you read this...realize that those excuses stand in the way of your own happiness and let them go...that is what they are...EXCUSES...yours is NO different from any other affair on the planet, even though you think so right now..."but they don't know me", "they have no idea how horrible our marriage is/was", "My W can't meet my EN's", "I don't want my W to meet my EN's", "I will never be as turned on by my W as I am by the OW"...and a multitude of others...don't believe me...try me, give me some reason/excuse why not...and I'll give you almost the same one/s that I had regarding my M and my A...I challenge you to find one that stumps me or any other WS on this board...I guarantee you that you can't do it...know why? Because you are NOT UNIQUE when it comes to this in any way, shape or form...as you keep reading here, you will actually begin to feel rather sheepish and foolish where this is concerned...we all do eventually...it will insult your intelligence...we all thought ours had a special set of circumstances applicable only to us...I even went searching online to try and prove that, I ,out of EVERYONE on this board was perhaps the first to be different, as my A was born of an old flame...I somehow thought that this made mine just a bit more intense and justisfied...Guess what? I ended up spending a lot of time and energy to prove that I was dead wrong...save yourself this further humiliation and understand that you are now the newest member of the "not so unique" club of all us WSes...sorry, the welcome isn't very fulfilling...but we do all understand where you've been and can see clearly the precipice upon which you now stand...

If it's #2, then you shouldn't have a problem giving up the OW...and as Mr. Wondering said, you owe it to, at the very least, yourself to try...you yourself have acknowledged that all of us here seem to think that almost any marriage has a chance...why do you think that is? Do you think that all or most of us WSes had really happy marriages before we had our A's, and that's why we are able to recover our marriages? I know that you are smarter than that. What if what we are saying is true? What if you could finally have the "Holy Grail" marriage? This website wouldn't exist if it weren't possible to have something better than any of us ever thought existed...instead, you would only have people coming here for advice and not really getting it, because there wouldn't be folks that believed as strongly as so many of us do in the principles of Marriage Builders...instead you would read stories of how the principles made things worse...a happy "customer" usually only tells one other person about their experience, and an unhappy "customer" tells eleven people about theirs...I have never read the story of an unhappy MB "customer", but I am amazed daily at how many happy MBers are on this board actively trying to impart what a gift these principles have been in their own lives...how desperately those of us who have seen mountains moved in our own lives want to pass that joy on to someone else...Toolman, it is a joy that you can almost taste it is so real...can you risk not having that in your own life? What possible motivation could you have for not trying? I implore you to open your heart and mind and grab the "brass ring" here...you will be eternally grateful for all that you will gain if you do...A wonderful fulfilling marriage AND the greatest legacy in the world to leave for your children...how can you possibly say no to that?



-Toolman, no one has ever suggested that the BSes here were perfect in their marriages...I know that your W has learned a lot from reading here and can tell you that she wasn't meeting your needs either...hey, if you guys are like my H and I, then you probably couldn't have identified an EN from a stump in the yard before coming here...much less have been able to identify yours or those of your spouse...nor would you have been able to come anywhere near meeting those needs for one another. What you have to understand though, is that your A is NOT justified because your needs weren't being met...an A is NOT a solution to marital problems...and YOUR decision to have the A is YOURS alone, no matter what you think or say now, no amount of unhappiness in your marriage gave you the right to break your marital vows...I know that you will have justifications and rationalizations galore, all WSes do, but eventually you will have to come to grips with the fact that this was a very poor CHOICE that you made all by yourself to indulge your own selfishness...nobody made you do it but you...not the OW, not your W and not the Devil, just you, all by your lonesome...sorry, but those are the cold, hard facts that we all have to come to terms with at some point...I'm sure that you can see how unfair of you it has been to make choices that affect the lives of your W and children without them having any say in the matter...If you can't see that, then maybe you can see that you wouldn't have liked it at all if the situation were reversed...or maybe you aren't even there yet, I know that at the time that my H discovered my A I was so completely over the top "fogged out" that I suggested to him that he and I stay married and that he start an A of his own...I hope that sounds ludracris to you, but if it doesn't, that's okay too...just come back and read this in a few months and I promise that you will see it as just as ridiculous (AND VERY SICKENING) as I do now.

Your W's responses to what you think of her may very well be ones of hurt and defensiveness because of the way you both have neglected the other in your M. After not receiving the admiration she has desired from you for so long, she has come up with her own coping mechanism for dealing with the pain of that need going unmet...I'm sure you have developed these too if you think about it...


-Did she tell you that this is what she is looking for or is this just what you think that she is looking for...do you understand the difference? If she told you this, then have you admired her as your business partner? Have you told her how invaluable that she is? How that you view much of the success of your business to her credit? Basically, have either of you ever told the other what a great team you make? That must be true, or you guys wouldn't be making a living at it together, right? How about celebrating each other's contributions to the business over a happy hour, just the two of you? Toolman, have you acknowledged what your wife may have given up to raise your children...look at them, I'm sure they are wonderful human beings...have you ever told her that you know the "why" of that...that she has been a wonderful mother...I didn't say perfect...I don't know any perfect parents, do you? But you can bet that your kids just wouldn't be at all, if she hadn't been what she has to them. Motherhood can be a very thankless job...and 100 people a day could tell you how great you are at it, and it would NEVER mean as much as it would coming from your H.


-Toolman, re-read that and kick yourself in the heiney for it...I'm married too, and I KNOW without a doubt that BOTH partners make mistakes and put forth effort. I'm sure that it must just be my inference here, and surely not your implication that only your W makes mistakes and only you put forth effort...come now Toolman, no fog is that thick, is it?

Please continue to read and post here...start your own thread...ask questions...even if they are "unpopular" ones, I can guarantee you that they will be ones that all WSes have had as well...we will be here to support you, cheer you, slap you in line from time to time with a few 2 x 4's and guide you on a very scary but so well worth it journey...I personally promise you that I will be here to empathize with your feelings, foggy though they will be, AND I will then take those feelings and show you how they parallel the ones that I had regarding my own A...but most importantly, I will tell you how my feelings changed as my own fog lifted...and I know that other WSes here will be glad to do the same for you...we have all been there, Toolman, I promise...We are so glad that you are here...I applaud you for posting, it takes a lot of courage and intelligence to be open to the possibility of trying something new...good for you!

Mrs. Wondering


Edited to add...

P.S. imanotherone...just joshing ya about your precious Gators! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> "It's Great to be a Gator Hater" is just a cheer used at the Georgia/Florida game...you know, "The World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party" as it is sometimes more widely known...I do still have to get in a good "Goooooo... DAWGS, Sic Em....Ruff, Ruff, Ruff..." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And Oh my Lord, I'm must tell you that Bobby Knight is almost thought of a deity in my H's eyes...if it wasn't for basketball those sad little folks wouldn't have a conference worth mentioning would they? Only in the South do they understand that football is really a religion...

Thank you Mrs. and Mr. Wondering for all of your advice. I know it must have taken a long time to think through all of this, and I, for one, am very grateful.
So far, I think WH and I have made some strides in a positive direction. WH has finally given me access to his email account (although he's purged anything from the OG). At least it helps me to be able to check to see if she's trying to contact him. The first three days after this "temporary NC," she has called his cell phone at least a dozen times. He says no messages have been left, so I'll have to trust him on that for now. I think WH knows how crushed and pissed I'll be if the NC is broken, especially since I'm doing as much as I can to make our home a safe place for him to work on his issues and our issues. If OG becomes part of the equation again, I will be all the way back to the place this all started, or even worse.
WH is concerned about my "snooping" on his computer, and "snooping" on his cell phone, but in time, hopefully he'll realize that this is what I need to feel comfortable that the PA and EA has ended. In time, if he sees I'm not collecting data to skewer him, he will feel comfortable keeping all of this out in the open permanently. (I pray he doesn't find some way to go "underground" to contact OG, because that would certainly erode all trust.)
Anyway, I'm focussing on Plan A, and working on my own personal recovery. Took a very long walk/jog on our beach yesterday, and it helped clear my head. Took the kiddies to the park together and have avoided any LBs. Trying to keep feeling a little better about myself every passing day.
Thanks, Wonderings, Orchid, Melody, and everyone for your advice and 2 x 4's so far. I couldn't have come this far without all of you!

Good Morning I.M.;

Toolman is desperately going to want to give OW an explanation. Has he called her at least once to inform her he was busted? How is he responding to sending a NC letter? It usually takes a WS at least a few days to adjust to this and figure out what they have to do. It'd be great if he just went to NC immediately and I pray that is what he has resolved to do. But resolve and the WS don't usually go hand and hand. Wishywashyness, that is what to expect.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

I re-read the entire thread and here are the points that have stuck into my head over the past few days, the ones I agree with [or can find no argument against] and have thought about. I post them here so you can tell me if I am mis-interpreting quotes out of context, or if I am grasping the essence.

“You can do it - but you have to want it. Why don't you give it a try and see what happens?” -Dorry

“It took him a long time to realize how important I was to him. I had lost 60lbs and he did not notice until one of our friends asked him if I had cancer. That is an example of how blinded you can be in an A. This takes time and patience.” -Realtor

“..you both are pretty much right on track as to where your emotions, thoughts and actions are right now. That does not mean it's ok. It means your positive and negative feelings, thoughts and actions are normal.” -Orchid

“Now you both have to heal yourselves first, then help each other, then help your family, then your M. In that order. See where your M is? It is 4th. Hm.....” -Orchid

“Just because you know what you s/b doing, doesn't mean you are or w/b doing it.” – Orchid

“…individual characteristics/personalities and attitudes. It becomes easier to make wrong assumptions about our mates and easier to justify wrong actions as a result.” -Orchid

“'when you point your finger at someone, remember there are 3 other fingers pointing back at you. This means you c/b 3 times more liable than the one you are pointing at.'” -Orchid

“You do not have to fully commit to making the marriage work today or tomorrow. All that's needed is a commitment to trying. An internal acknowledgement that to "not try" will only lead to regret someday. Regret for you, your kids and your wife.” –The_Wonderings

“To you right now she seemingly appears as an insecure, nagging, complaining wife/mother that maybe nobody in their right mind could get along with … ... as far as BS's go here on the boards she has been one of the most level headed, self-adjusted, self-assured BS's I've seen ” -The_Wonderings

“You've got to try.” -The_Wonderings

“we all thought ours had a special set of circumstances applicable only to us” -The_Wonderings

“you owe it to, at the very least, yourself to try...you yourself have acknowledged that all of us here seem to think that almost any marriage has a chance...why do you think that is? Do you think that all or most of us WSes had really happy marriages before we had our A's, and that's why we are able to recover our marriages? I know that you are smarter than that. What if what we are saying is true?” -The Wonderings

“I suggested to him that he and I stay married and that he start an A of his own...I hope that sounds ludracris to you, but if it doesn't, that's okay too...just come back and read this in a few months and I promise that you will see it as just as ridiculous (AND VERY SICKENING) as I do now.” -The_Wonderings

Mr. Wondering,
Yes, WS has called the OG to inform him he was busted. I don't know the content of the call. WH says it was relatively short, and that he told her he "needed some space" to figure things out, I think. He asked her not to call or email, and told her he would not be calling her, at least not in the middle of the night. She still has called him, but I am told no messages have been left. WH says she was upset by his call, but he supposed it was because her pride was hurt, since he was doing the breaking up. Now though, after all of her calls, he admits that she "may care more for me than I thought."

"...desiring S is not the same as desiring it with HER because of HER...make sense?" Yes, that makes sense, but I dont think that's what happened; we've done it about three times over the past eight years, with the most recent five years ago.

"EXCUSES...yours is NO different from any other affair on the planet" Well I must say that you've listed every "excuse" I have thought and more. I'll have to get really creative.

"Did she tell you that this is what she is looking for or is this just what you think that she is looking for...do you understand the difference?" This is what I think, she tells me otherwise, but her actions and attitudes speak louder. Honestly, I think W would be much happier immersed in the executive business world with a childless back-burner marriage, even if she won't admit that to herself. I think admitting it would be a first step towards dealing with this serious issue. Somewhat uncerstandable - she is very intelligent, highly educated, eloquent, perceptive, witty. W is a fantastic business partner, our business is flourishing. Our kids are awesome, they are truly amazing. But I think deep down she sees herself as the "downtrodden mom" and takes it out on me. I've suggested she career full time and I go part time as the stay at home dad - I think she sees that as admitting failure.

" I'm sure that it must just be my inference here, and surely not your implication that only your W makes mistakes and only you put forth effort...come now Toolman, no fog is that thick, is it? " Of course not, I've made mistakes too and she has made effort too.

The main thing that has always bothered me about motherhood is not the actual work involved but the fact that my work is absolutely thankless. Since respect and positive feedback are very important to me, it disturbs me that all of my efforts go unnoticed. In a business world, efforts are evaluated constantly, and I'm constantly getting (positive) feedback. In the mothering world, I think the "body of my work" (the children) speak for themselves. However, WH doesn't like to give positive feedback unless some particular event is superlative. Certainly isn't going to give me feedback like, "Gee Ima, it sure is great that DD is getting all her homework in on time and that you have been shuttling her out to competition cheerleading 3 x per week for 9 hours per week for 3 years, and that you spent 2 solid days laying next to DS while he was 2 years old and in the hospital with a broken leg, and that you have always been there for the children anytime they ever call you...." See? That just wouldn't happen. EVER.
Sooooo.... What I love about the corporate world, and always will, is constant, timely, positive feedback. In the mothering world, the only feedback I get is when I screw something up. I love being a mother, but it sucks that no one respects it or appreciates it in our house. WS will SAY he respects it, but in application, he shows more attention and attraction to untethered women. If he truly admired me for the job I was doing, I would know it. And I don't.

No one lies on their death bed regretting that they did not spend more time in the office and less time with their family.

Agreed! In fact, I'm working hard on finding satisfaction from within, and not from respect from others. Still, I can't ignore that respect and admiration are high ENs for me. I wouldn't trade my beautiful DD and DS for anything. I'm just saddened that WH seems attracted to women who don't have strong family values.

imanotherone...

I am in 100% agreement with you regarding the job of motherhood being thankless...Wow, my H and I just had this discussion the other day...I don't have a lot of practical advice on this one for you, I just wanted to give you an "Amen Sister" and let you know that you are NOT alone on this one! It may help, however, that Toolman is going to get to read this now and may better understand...the fact that he is reading this at all should not go unnoticed by you...We, as women, often like to think that "it doesn't count" if we have to tell them to do/say it first...but it should speak volumes to us that they are willing to try... just to please us...it looks like Toolman is on his way to trying just by being here at all...

Mrs. Wondering

Toolman...

I really am glad that you are here...it's a HUGE first step, though neither of you may fully understand this yet.

I wanted to say also that I really hope that my earlier post to you in no way sounded condesending...when I first came here, I felt that a lot of the FWSes sounded like that...I don't think that that is the intention of any of us, it's just that we are in a different place in regards to our on A's at this point. I just want you to fully understand that I FULLY UNDERSTAND where you are right now...I understand so much, in fact, that I even know that you don't feel that you can be 100% honest about your feelings on this board...I think that you sense that if you are completely truthful that EVERYONE here will begin swinging 2 x 4's at you with full abandon...I know that that is how I felt, and so I tempered some of the things that I said here...I went back and re-read my first posts this morning, so that maybe I could post them to you to let you see just how far that I had come in such a short time, but when I read through them, I saw just how much I wasn't saying at the time...I do think that that is the only unfortunate thing about the way these boards can sometimes operate...I may get slammed for even mentioning this...But, just as I thought it was important for imanotherone to know that I understood where she was coming from, I think that your feelings need to be validated as well...So, Toolman, I completely understand the inner struggle that you dealing with right now, and it's okay, because it is VERY NORMAL...please feel free to use this board in the way that it will most fully benefit you...I, for one, promise that I'll be here to "get" it!

Mrs. Wondering

No no no! Strong family values IS attractive to me! It is! Look at my EN's!