Come on AAO, as a fellow southerner you should appreciate this down home no nonsense brand of advice...you really can learn from it, but you know that...Melody has actually come to my aid in a situation where I was being unfairly attacked and remember, I too am a WW...what's up with you today(I ask YOU, cuz ya know we ain't changin the ole Melster-tee hee)...are you okay? Sorry I haven't emailed you back, I haven't forgotten about you and will do so soon...Take Care of You...

Regarding this thread, I do agree with Melody...the poster asked for yes or no, which is a "black and white" answer...so, he got what asked for just not what he wanted...

Melody, my YANKEE husband, Mr. Wondering, likes your style of "tap dancing"...he says, when she's been called a b!%$h, she comes back with, "I'm not an a$$!"...Too Funny!

Now, on to a1b2...$278,000/yr....TOOT! TOOT!

Btw, this is our 100th post, we are making it together on our 8th wedding anniversary...we are laughing together, so glad to be here...just wanted to stir the pot a little on "our" day... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mr. & Mrs. Wondering

So I am not the only southern gal who shamed the family by marrying a damnyankee! Mr W is alright for a yankee.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Melody...yes, my family had a really hard time dealing with my "mixed marriage" in the beginning...til they finally realized that the "yankee race" wasn't all bad...Ha Ha Ha!!!

My first joke to Mr. W...What's the difference between a yankee and a dam# yankee? All the yankees went home...(he was living in Atlanta at the time...)

His first joke to me(AND my "dyed in the wool" family)...General Sherman is quite a hero here, isn't he? (BLASPHEMY-NO, I said!) To which he replied, "Well, he may not be a hero, but he sure can build a fire!!!"

The Wonderings

"mixed marriage?" hahaaa Yes, I can relate very much. It's a cardinal sin to marry a carpetbagger, but a double sin to bring the boy back home! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Congrats to the wonderings, you give us all hope. BTW, I had to go back to the top, and look at the survey. Did you notice a1b2c3... DID NOT ask for yes/no only? (I noticed because I made my survey y/n only, and was surprised when he did not. Therefore, IMHO, a1b2c3... is most likely trying to see where his actions lie on the infidelity spectrum. Correct me if I'm wrong, a1b2.. So, can we all agree that "On the spectrum of adultery, this falls somewhere behind sleeping with one's SIL while W is pregnant with their 4th child? Or, can we agree that it is somewhat behind leaving one's husband while he's in the hospital to bed-down with his doctor? Honestly, can we agree that it isn't worth fighting over, or alienating each other? I'm a true newbie, so feel free to tell me to butt-out. It seems like everyone brings their own baggage to that conversation, and that is the way it should be. Some will appear hostile, some will appear accepting, and others may be using this forum for ulterior motives. IMHO, a1b2c3.. has made a great first step just showing up here without his wife hitting him with threats. This means he is most likely a good candidate for reconciliation. Can you think of the hundreds of WS's that never give this site the time of day? Don't give up, any of you! I'll try to do the same.

Actually, he asked "was it cheating," and that is a clear cut matter of definition that can only be aswered properly with a yes/no answer. [his multiple choice answers were irrelevent to the question because popular opinion is not an appropriate source for word definitions] Words have specific meanings which is why I posted the dictionary definition. The meaning of a word does not change to suit personal preferences. We can all clearly see that his actions meet the definition of the word. A definition is not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact.

What he really wanted to know is "was I justified in cheating?" That is what he should have asked.

a1b2c3d4e5 ,
I know of web sites with 100% of the people there telling you that you did not have an affair/adultery. That still doesn't mean it wasn't.

Things are going well but I lack the emotional connection I used to have with her. Perhaps that will come after she moves in.
No, it won't. This will come after BOTH of you do the work necessary to make this happen. Simply living together will not do this.

You wrote, "From my experience with government law enforcement is that infidelity runs rampant."

And previously you wrote, I don't know if she was cheating or not. I quesiton it of course but honestly don't think so."
It happens to everyone except me?
Think about it. Yes, it's one of the hardest things in the world to imagine and you find all the excuses to believe it did not happen but (sadly) from the few lines you have written, I'd bet a large amount of money it did.

"No previous experiences of infidelity without permission "
Huh? So you gave her permission previously to have an affair?

You're right MelodyB. a1b2c3...might get better results to say, Ok I was unfaithful. Now, just how bad WAS my transgression, comparatively speaking. Then multiple choice answers would be appropriate.
Still, we're missing the whole point. What a1b2c3 is asking, at least this is what I think he is asking is... "I'm a pretty decent guy who made some good decisions and some bad ones. What do you think it will take to get my marriage on the right track?"
In which case, the answer is.... (jump in here anytime, veterans!)

im, I agree that should be the point, but he didn't ask that, instead he wanted to quibble over the meaning of the word, which is a waste of time, IMO.

I've actually learned a lot from this thread. I think I need to pay closer attention to what I'm asking here and in my marriage. Since our language (not dictionary, but linguistics) is very ambiguous at times, it is important to frame the question such that all understand where you are coming from. Almost like asking H "Do you love me?" Well, dictionary love isn't even clear, so what do I really want to know? I want to know "Are your feelings for me such that you want to be with me in a relationship where we both get mutual satisfaction without compromising the other person?" Or something like that. Certainly, he can say I love you, without demonstrating it, and visa versa. Same goes here for a1b2c3...
Question is "I want to make this marriage work. I assume my wife does too. Now, what do we both need to do to repair the damage we have done?"
I think he'll do ok, IMHO.

a1b2c3d4e5

Forget the poll ok.

Dont try to justify, you will get mostly a simple yes or no because in the end only a black or white ans is factual.
Married, did you have an affair with another yes or no..thats it.

You have a another point of view which in the circumstances as you explain it means your M was over for you except for a piece of paper.
As for religion, well some would recognise that separation as a divorce, others do not recognise divorce at all. Thats really all besides the point.

But thats Ok thats fine we can agree to disagree. I suspect most 'people' out in the non affair affected world will agree with you, but a1b2c3d4e5, so what?

It doesn't help you with the current situation.

You haven't told what the circumstances were of your wife leaving except in very general terms. There is a lot of experience here and you may get some good advice and yes
4x 2 as well, but thats the nature of this forum.

Myself I feel that in hindsight you regret the sexual contact and perhaps wish it didn't happen. But it did and perhaps your wife has things to regret as well. I have to say her behaviour as explained by you sounds depressingly familiar here on this forum but who knows?

Pls consider giving a bit more info if you wish to seek some opinions, dont need ID stuff just the way things were in your M etc.

Polls & justifications dont get you any help....didn't help me either.

Hope you will consider this.

Post deleted by a1b2c3d4e5

Post deleted by a1b2c3d4e5

This is a Ross and Rachael situation (where we or weren't we 'on a break').
No, your situation is not even close. You were legally married at that time.
BTW, they WERE "on a break"! ;-)

So a marriage is a marriage only when both people in it think it is?
If so, why get married or divorced? After all, the court says it is a marriage until it is ended in divorce (not when one simply decides they don't want it).

Another question to ask is that if my emotional needs weren't being met with my spouse (afterall the counselor says our relationship was based on sex) then is it a healthy relationship to try and rekindle?
It depends on if she is willing to try & meet your ENs now.
You didn't have an affair because you emotional needs weren't being met. You had an affair because you failed to protect yourself against yourself.
That and also the fact that you don't seem to think it was an affair or wrong.

Since this forum, for the most part, is anonymous and can remain so as long as that is what you chose, then you should not feel like it is betraying her need for privacy by sharing the problems that lead to your separation and trying to get some help with your reconcilliation.

Although I think you are reading much more 'harshness' into Mel, I also know that some newbies sometimes take offense to her direct style. You can actually learn lots from her and others here. If you hand around, in time, I would think that your opinion of her would change. She really has a wonderful sense of humor. I do think you are misreading her tone a bit.

I would think from the time line you initially posted that your W may have had an EA at the very least and possibly a full blown A prior to you ever having your 'relationship'. Otherwise a post-partum depression may have been the cause.
You kind of indicated that you had an open marriage. She may have crossed a boundary by getting emotionally involved and then hiding it from you. I believe at some point Radical Honesty as recommended by Dr. Willard Harley would benefit your marital intimacy.

By following the MB principles, you can have a better marriage than before your separation.

Since you share a dear son (DS) together, I think it is worth giving it a try.

I suggest, especially since you can afford it, trying some phone counselling with Steve Harley or his sister Jennifer Chalmers. That would help your reconcilliation get off to a good start.

Since your marriage focused on the EN for Sex, then reading Dr. Willard Harley's 'His Needs Her Needs' would be a good start too. There is also his book 'Fall in Love, Stay in Love'. I would also recommend the book, 'Love Busters'.

It seems like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulders from which you may benefit from freeing yourself. A bit of humble introspection may be in order to be better able to recognize your part in the demise of you marriage.

I really wish you both have a truly great marital recovery.

a1, then I suppose we are even, because I find it annoying - if not silly - when folks try to rationalize bad behavior by bastardizing the English language. And frankly, your argument is with the English language, not me, since all I did to "annoy" you was post the dictionary definition of cheating and adultery. That has caused you great outrage, which should tell you that your issue is with the truth, not with me. Unless you want us to believe that Mr Dictionary is "bitter." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I am just the messenger.

You asked a direct question to which there IS a black and white answer. The definition of cheating is not a fuzzy gray area as you would like to believe. Sure, situations can be fuzzy if we want them to be, but yours is not.

Simply put, words have definitions no matter how unpleasant that may be. Changing the English language to accommodate your behavior wont' change the truth. You can call it a baloney sandwich, but guess what? It is still cheating and attacking me won't change that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

"It seems unlikely that she separated bc of an A right after the baby was born. It sounds very possible she had post partum depression."

Hmmm...I don't. Maybe she was depressed...or maybe she WAS in an affair, maybe the child is the OM's, and maybe, just maybe, collecting LOADS of cash from a wealthy ex while getting her "freedom" sounded pretty good. Think about it - her own "normal" salary of $35,000 plus a big old chunk of her husband's $250,000 + salary, plus the money from which ever guys she was with or would end up with in the future. Sounds like she was setting herself up pretty darn good...

I wonder why she came back? Do you know how much of that cash she has left? Maybe her and OM, if there was one, broke it off. Or maybe reality just set in when she learned you were with someone else.

Why was the Divorce never filed or finalized?

I would think that jealousy played a part too. It was okay when she didn't want a1b2, but she didn't want another woman to have him. She probably thought he'd be there as a back up.

Maybe she felt safe thinking that no other woman would want him. Then she found out she was wrong. It is odd that she would accuse him of an A when she, for all intents and purposes, made it clear she didn't want the marriage.

I do think he should have waited until after the DV was final to preserve his integrity and moral high ground. Upon finding out about an OW, that's when she cried foul and wants to work on the M. I suppose it could be that reality set in. It could be about the money, but I hope it isn't.

I hope she came to realize that an intact marriage, with the father of her child, would be that best for all concerned.

My parents recently purchased a new refrigerator.

There was a sign on it showing the price as $699. The regular non-sale price was $899.

When the salesperson rang it up, he tried to charge them $899. The sale had ended three days earlier but the store staff had not gotten around to removing the price sign yet.

My dad immediately protested. "The price on the fridge said $699. It doesn't matter when your sale ended."

He went home with a $699 refrigerator.

The moral of this story is....?

Low

Can you just come to grips that it was cheating b/c your wife feels it was? To feel remorse is to actually feel the same pain as the person you hurt. Can you try to empathize with her? If you can't then I don't see how you have a chance.
My H and I sound like we were similar to you and your W. We have a very high income, went to Ivy League schools blah blah blah...It sounds like you did something we did sexually. You can go back and read our old posts. My H was wwjd and wwjdnow. He makes himself sound perfect--I think he was very one sided. Frankly, a man is more sexual than a woman. She probably feels an incredible amount of anger towards you because you did not honor her or protect her. Am I close? Try to be honest here. Secrets destroy. I have faced a lot of judgement for what I have done--but at least I am facing up to what I have done. Tell us more about the sex stuff. Its nothing that we arent imagining. Some other time we will have to debate the Bible stuff--you are taking things way out of context and its driving me, and others I am sure, crazy! LOL. I say all of this with no judgement of you.