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CSue #1451343 08/18/05 12:27 PM
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Quote
I mentioned this website at times - and I have to tell you that SH was surprised/alarmed with what transpires here sometimes.

This site is not always an accurate reflection of MB or MB philosophy either.

Counseling with SH wasn't always by the MB Book. He is an expert in a very narrow field of issues - and our experience with him was priceless!


This is why post people on here recommened buying the book snad setting up an appointment with the Harley's.

this is a SUPPORT group and not a COUNCELLING group. Many ideas here are based on MB principals, but once again, it's support. Most of the wise ole folks will always tell you to back up an advice and support on here with the books or councelling from the Harleys <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lots of the newer folk forget that important fact - that MC is a must, and this is just great for support and some guidance and for feeling not so alone, and it also helped kicked my butt out of my [censored] to realize that I need to focus on my goal and not try to do things my own way - that help is always needed, that is higher than me.

Just my 2cents <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
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WH (after 1 year legal seperation) B: 09/1976 M: 06/1997 Legally Seperated: 07/2004 Wife moved back in 08/21/2005 vacilating between withdrawal and conflict
dorry #1451345 08/18/05 12:53 PM
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“””As for my religious beliefs. I have been an atheist for several years but I am not closed minded about me being possibly wrong. Another problem with the world is being close minded to other religions, races, classes, heritages, etc. I know that I may be wrong, I have reasons for believing I am not, but . . . still open to changing my mind if it makes sense to me.”””

Just as a side note, I believe that chaos breeds chaos. I only say that to the point of spiritual unsteadiness in your life could lead to other portions being unsteady. It really sounds as if your going through a stage in life where you doing a lot of searching and have a lot of books open. I believe you’ll find that as you begin to come to some conclusions on your journey and begin closing some of these books that the picture will be a little clearer. The human mind is an amazing device but unlike a computer it’s data input in one side can directly corrupt the data output on the other.

”””Marriage counselors - They both simply said that my wife and I are communicating well. But that we see things entirely different. That is why my wife and I decided to accept the fact that we see the same events in two different lights--just as two witnesses at a crime scene will remember the same events differently.”””

AWESOME…. You sitting there saying why does he think that’s awesome, because that’s real and quite frankly it’s a starting point. But rather than simply “accept” that fact that y’all see things in different light, why not see what you can do to improve on that. Seek to gain a better understanding of how she see’s and processes things. It will definitely lend to you being more understanding and allow you to better communicate with your wife. There are several things I would suggest, one would be taking some type of communication class with your wife. There is one called Reautroville, that I’ve heard wonderful things about. I’m not sure if it’s Christian based or not. The other suggestion would be to pick up and read a book, I think it’s called The Five Languages of Love.

Understanding each other and developing complimentary styles in this arena can work wonders. Yes, my wife and I benefit greatly from Dr. Harley’s principles but we also benefit greatly from realizing our differences in how we view things and tailoring our communication to fit with each other. I tend to quickly analyze and entire picture and skip right to the final solution, where she tends to take things a step at a time. So if I’m waiting at the finish line for her, she can either feel left out or frustrated. Plus, if I’m waiting there at the finish line, I may very well have skipped over something that was important to her. Now these two styles are both acceptable ways to deal with problems but as you can see we do things differently, so we are left with two options 1) accept we are different and continue to engage in a power struggle or 2) seek ways and means by which we can effectively deal with issues together validating each persons opinions along the way. So which one do you feel will better serve us in the long run? Of course #2 will.


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

Bill
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WH (after 1 year legal seperation) B: 09/1976 M: 06/1997 Legally Seperated: 07/2004 Wife moved back in 08/21/2005 vacilating between withdrawal and conflict
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You should purchase and read "Surviving an Affair" before she gets home. Put a plan in place for a successful rebuilding of your marriage. Just flying by the seat of your pants won't work. Unless you can find a better, proactive marriage building site.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JMHO
SD


BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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I agree with Lost Husband.

H and I have such different views of things our story of the same evet can be drastically different...and as much as we were good communicators, this barrier in our communication was detremental.

We have learned to respect the differences and try to agree to disagree when we see soemthing different, instead of trying to force what we see on one another.

Lost Husband made some really good points there that would help you and your wife A1.


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

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WH (after 1 year legal seperation) B: 09/1976 M: 06/1997 Legally Seperated: 07/2004 Wife moved back in 08/21/2005 vacilating between withdrawal and conflict
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WH (after 1 year legal seperation) B: 09/1976 M: 06/1997 Legally Seperated: 07/2004 Wife moved back in 08/21/2005 vacilating between withdrawal and conflict
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Hopefully this is the stuff that SH (Steve Harley) can help you both overcome.


Married 1976
Me:BS
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Then why are you on a support forum if you don't need support. Many here have told you that were arent councellors, we aren;t advisors ,- we give support based advice. If you want a solution then please - call up the Harleys, make an appointment.


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
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WH (after 1 year legal seperation) B: 09/1976 M: 06/1997 Legally Seperated: 07/2004 Wife moved back in 08/21/2005 vacilating between withdrawal and conflict
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a1b2,
Look, you come across as arrogant and extremely opinionated, unteacheable and judgmental (YES, you who thinks s are judgmental, lol). The key to that statement is that's how you come across. You may or may not be those things.

That said, I read the last long post of yours and I think I see things diferently than some of the people who have posted. Sure, they are giving you good facts and MB advice. They are pointing out the black from the white. But I also see a man who was devastated by his wife (I know that LOW point, when you feel you are in the pit of ******, I think sometimes people forget what that was like...). You were torn to pieces while she stood bye and watched cold-heartedly. She moved far away with your child, and you paid her a ton of money to do all of this to you.

I think you should stop saying that your wife was not a WS. She was! Whether there was an admitted affair or not, she betrayed and abandoned you! Answer this question: If she wanted you back SO badly, after leaving you and screwing you over, WHY is she spending so much energy throwing that relationship back in your face??? Sure, it hurt, for whatever reason. It doesn't seem like she values you or the marriage, so I haven't quite figured out why she was SO upset.

You both screwed up, as in any marriage, both people do things to contribute to marital problems. Did you mess up by beginning another relationship before the marriage was completely over, legally and otherwise? Well, apparantly so. OR MAYBE NOT REALLY. Obviously, that is what it took to wake her up! Ok, so you shouldn't go out and use another woman to make WW jealous. And I don't think that's what you did. But everything else failed, and your being in another relationship had the unexpected affect of waking her up.

Anyway, if you want this marriage, you will have to come to respect her feelings on this. You can be sorry that you hurt her. (Of course it would be nice if she was sorry she hurt you). You can be sorry that you didn't finish the first chapter before moving on to the second.

I think that a statement such as, "WW, I want to be completely honest with you, and I honestly do not feel that I cheated on you, considering where our marriage was at that point. However, I can say that I am very sorry I have caused you hurt. I never wanted to hurt you, and I don't want to hurt you now. Please forgive me. Can we both start again?"

As far as this site goes, I think you are offending people by implying this is an exremist cult. And you are asking for opinions and then bashing those opinions.

Most people on here probably will disagree with a lot of what I said to you today. But you know what? I am learning to be ok with that. I am learning to be ok with the fact that I am human and that I don't have to always be perfect or meet others expectations.

Hurting people do things that they may not normally do. Some people are "stronger" than others. Poeple have different resources available to them at different times. We have diffeent backgrounds, values, personalities, weaknesses and strengths. Some people can go through this kind of torment and come out on the other side saying they were strong and pure, etc. Good for them! Some will come out looking like they've been drug 50 miles by a semi. They are crawling and struggling to regain their balance. Others are somewhere in between. I wish people were more loving and accepting of all the varieties.

So this is where you are. This is how you dealt with things.
I think it's great that you want to try again for your son. Many people won't do that.

So take what you have and find a way to make it work. But it's going to take HUMILITY and a teachable heart. Without those things, your marriage will fail again and you will go through more pain. BUT, you also need to learn to establish healthy boundaries with your WW, as she needs to be accountable too.

I, personally, would not "do" marriage again without MB principles. Thos principles give me assurance that my H and I CAN succeed.

Maybe you can start a new thread that is about what you DID do wrong instead of what you didn't do wrong, that way you can hopefully avaoid making the same mistakes again.

The words "affair", "adultery", "cheating" - they are just words. Yeah people may try to use them to label you. I know that stings. And your wife may use them to gain power over you (which signals a deeper issue). But if you can at least get to the point where you can just say , "ok, maybe I made a mistake", that's a stepping stone.

I encourage you to stick around and use this site for the support and advice that you are really going to need when your wife gets home.


26 years old
2 DD's, 3 and 6
Divorced after XWH's A
MARRIED to LostHusband 7/23/05!!
3 step DD's, 15, 13, 10
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a1,

You're right. My H was a WS before he left. I just didn't know it until after he left. It was an EA for 2 months before he decided to leave. It became physical after he left. But I don't see much difference. You even admitted that your W knows she was in an EA for 2 years. It seems like you're trying to get your W to see things your way. I say this b/c of what you said here --

Quote
If my wife could simply understand that about 50% of america would call it an affair and 50% wouldn't then maybe she would back off a little and stop pounding me on this so much. This is not repeatable behavior for me unless she moves her A55 back out of the house again. grrrrrr she just so doesn't get it!!! (conflict side coming out)


a1, she's not going to see things your way. This relationship you had hurt her. Plain & simple. Personally, in my own opinion, I think it was cheating, but that's just my personal opinion. Everyone's entitled to theirs. Your W is entitled to hers. My H thinks it wasn't, not technically, so he sees things from your perspective. Everyone sees things differently. And now that I read further, I see your MC & you both have agreed that you see things differently. So, moot point.

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I have no issues with sacrifice as long as it still creates personal happiness as well as marital happiness. You lose personal happiness and the marriage isn't worth the sacrifice. I belief in sacrificing for your spouse (that should be the definition of a marriage, MelodyLane???) but not sacificing to a level that you aren't happy doing it.


I agree. That's what the POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement) is for. So you two can compromise to the point that no one is unhappy. Everyone comes out a winner. But you have to make sure that neither one of you is the source of each other's unhappiness.

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She is truly remorseful NOW about the emotional affair but confesses to nothing more than an emotional affair. Very frustrating that it is only now that she admits to the emotional affair. Almost as if her feeling I had an affair makes it okay to admit to a lesser crime of an emotional affair now.


You're probably right. She wanted you to admit to yours before she'd admit to hers. She was probably afraid for you to know. Now that she knows that you had a relationship yourself, kind of makes it easy for her to tell you about hers. Sometimes we can't explain the WS' mind, just seen it happen a lot.

You will find that therapy is recommended usually all the time. Some people take the advice to get therapy, some won't. All depends on how someone feels about counselors. It's good that you have a positive attitude about therapists.

You seem really resigned to the fact that you're going to go through all this work for nothing. Seems as if you're giving up before you even start. With that line of thinking, you'll only see the negative all the time instead of the positive changes.

Quote
I am petrified of being hurt like this again.


And it is scary. But I say, anything worth having is hard work. Doesn't come easy.


RBW (me) FWH lostboyz
Married for 16 years
DDay on 10/10/03
Reconciliation on 2/8/04
Son 17, Twin son & daughter 16
4 years of a strong recovery
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a1b2,
I postedbefore I saw your last post. I hope you stick around a bit longer.

I think some people are frustrated because you seem to ask for solutions and then argue with most of what people say.

I also think some people will never be satisfied until you say, "OK, I admit it, I am a cheater, I am an adulterer, I had an affair..."

While I think that this is obviously an ineffective route to take with you, given the results it has had, I do worry that if you aren't even open to the possibility that you did something wrong, it could really hinder your ability to recover your marriage.

Maybe why it is so important to you would actually be a good place to start. Why are you so very against the idea that you may have had an "affair"? Why is worth so much of an arguement? Is it because your wife is using it to shift all the blame to you?
I have a feeling that has a lot to do with it.


26 years old
2 DD's, 3 and 6
Divorced after XWH's A
MARRIED to LostHusband 7/23/05!!
3 step DD's, 15, 13, 10
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"She is truly remorseful NOW about the emotional affair but confesses to nothing more than an emotional affair. Very frustrating that it is only now that she admits to the emotional affair. Almost as if her feeling I had an affair makes it okay to admit to a lesser crime of an emotional affair now."

Look an affair is an affair. EA, PA, they are all equally destructive.

It's doubtful a 2 year EA was not a PA as well. VERY doubtful.

But even if it wasn't, it destroyed your marriage.

Then you just began participating in the destruction once it was already in full force.

Maybe you can put it to her that way.

It's the truth yet you are still admitting to your part.

She really needs to take some responsibility here. Even the Harleys say that there should be certain requirements in place that WS's meet before recovery can begin.


26 years old
2 DD's, 3 and 6
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Aside from emotional support, what you can get here is some brainstorming as you work through the process of recovery. This would supplement the counseling that you receive either by Steve Harley or another pro-marriage counselor. You don't need to exit stage...but you can, if you don't think there is anything more you can learn from those who have walked the path of recovery before you.

You just may want to read here for a while.
You are welcome here not matter what you decide.

I really hope you can achieve the fulfilling marriage with the mother of your child that you desire.

All the best.


Married 1976
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I think it's good to stick with this thread (instead of starting a new one) and just change the title as needed. Then there can be a continum of a1's story as they work through their recovery. The history is all in one place.


Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
MB Weekend March 2003
2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
Trix #1451360 08/18/05 02:38 PM
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I hope you didn't take my last post as encouragement to leave, I was just stating that if you were looking for solutions and you don't like some of the solutions you get here, but instead have been going to some other posts that Justuss has had to edit 3 times...why are you here.

I think personally alot of the advice people are giving you is good advice that as someone above said can be coupled with councelling.

You may not like alot of the advice given - but it's been tried and true for working.

I am not looking for you to admit you are a WS. I know that there as much as I as a Christian believe it isn't over until it's a divorce, I am not you.

But I do see many good ideas and solutions being presented to you, but because they may not jive with your ideas you reject them. How bout trying some of them out?


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
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Chris,

You're right I misspoke!

A slight correction.
The SITE is (should be?) always a reflection of MB because it is written by MB staff.

The FORUMS may or may not be since the (Harley's never post, whether it is to correct someone or give guidance.

Thank you for clarifying what I meant to say!


"The actions you speak are louder than your words!"
Author unknown

"Miracles are seen in light."
From "A Course In Miracles".
CSue #1451362 08/18/05 03:25 PM
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I had a similar situation.

Wife was having an affair.

I spent over a year trying to fix things. She had moved out, and was continuing her relationship with her OM.

I eventually met someone new. I fell deeply in love with her. When WW found out, she FLIPPED out completely. Was ready to come home and fix it, etc...

Here is where our stories diverge. I told WW to go away and never contact me unless it was about the divorce.

I *felt* like the marriage was dead and buried. I *convinced* myself that I was doing no wrong.

In 20/20 hindsight, I was wrong. What I did was have an affair. What *you* did was have an affair. No ifs ands or buts. You and I were married, you and I had relations outside the marriage. Period. End of discussion.

Were our affairs justified? Many, if not most people would say yes. I would say "yes." Does that make them *not* be affairs? No. Justified affairs sure, but affairs nonetheless.

You are making a mistake by belittling Melody, and insulting others, and you will wind up talking to only newbies if you keep it up with your condescending attitude. You need to learn a little humility.

Frankly, I find you obnoxious and boorish - talking about your money and big-shot job like it matters, but you deserve help like anyone else truly seeking help here.

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