It was an assumption on my part because of the way you post. I don't see joy in you, I see fear.

This first point is being addressed because it’s important, but not because it has anything to do with the current bump (as I understand it).

Patriot - It's improper and insulting (not going to take it further than that for now) to use any physical means to restrain, control or otherwise prevent another person from moving about freely unless they are in real, imminent danger or they present a danger to others. Grabbing Froz to keep her in the car with you is completely unacceptable unless she's diving out into oncoming traffic. In which case, you should pull over and stop the car so that she can exit safely. Bottom line - If Froz doesn't want to be in a particular place at a particular time that is her decision to make. Do you get me? Select one: ___Yes ___No.

Froz - same goes. Just in case there's any question. For instance, no standing in Pat's way if he is trying to leave the room. Let him leave. Got it?

Both of you – It’s sometimes inconvenient and usually not much fun to let someone else leave when you are fighting or unhappy or uncomfortable or just wanting to get away. Leaving an uncomfortable situation is ALWAYS an option and always should be, but that said, the action of leaving a discussion also has consequences and that is something you both need to remember.


The rest is more topical (albeit philosophical) and not intended to garner a response here on the boards.


Pat? Froz? Does giving or getting forgiveness require an apology? Think about this for a minute. Discuss among yourselves. Read on.

Apologies are interesting things. Some people think that apologies, even the most sincere ones, are merely tools for manipulation ex: If I apologize now, I will get what I want in the end or more frequent, if I apologize now, then everything will be smoothed over and we’ll have peace. Or it’s a way to get the hurt party to shut up ex: If I say “Sorry” then s/he can’t keep being so vocal about being hurt. “I said I was sorry. What more do you want from me?” “I’m sorry any of this ever happened can we please stop talking about it now.”

People will often apologize without actually admitting fault or responsibility. They insult the intended recipient or even blame the intended recipient for the problem in the first place. Ex: “I’m sorry you feel that way.” or “I’m sorry I ran over your dog and killed him but if you hadn’t let your dog out to play in the yard in the first place, I never could have hurt him when I lost control of my vehicle and drove off the road and onto your property.”

Some people think that receiving an apology means that the problem should never happen again. “If you are really sorry, you will never do this [to me] again.” Some people think that an apology should be part of making up for the past wrong. “You said you were sorry for running over my dog but you didn’t offer to fix the fence or replace my dog, not that you ever could replace my dog…”

There are still other people that don’t believe that it is necessary to apologize directly to people for the wrongs we do to them – near them. We can or should only ask forgiveness from God, the universe, whatever… (To these people who read this now and want to discuss this outside of Pat and Froz’s situation, I would say please try for the sake of growth and progress, let’s not have that discussion here, but instead take it to another thread?)

If you’ve ever felt wronged, ask yourselves. How would I want the apology to be presented to me? What do I hope to gain from an apology? What am I willing to give if I get the apology I want? What if I never get the apology? Or what if it doesn’t meet my definition of a true apology? Then what?


Well, then there’s this idea…

What if what we really seek from ourselves and others is improvement?

We all have faults. The faults we have cause us and others to suffer in many different ways. The suffering we feel is painful. It limits us. We don’t feel free to be ourselves. So when we’re suffering, we want change in the situation, other people, ourselves... we want improvement. We want to feel free and easy again.

How are we supposed to make things better when we’ve f***ed up?

We start by regretting what we did wrong. And that doesn’t mean the same thing as feeling guilty by the way! What’s the difference? Glad you asked. Guilt is being preoccupied with knowing you did something wrong. It’s that sinking feeling that you’ve done something you think is so bad that you can’t fix it and you don’t know how you’ll ever redeem yourself. Regret is when you feel like you missed out, you’re disappointed, or you feel like you lost something or long for something. It’s when you feel like you missed an opportunity and now that opportunity is gone forever. We start by feeling like – MAN! I wish I had done that differently!

Next, talk about it. Say it out loud! Yes, it’s important. Vocalization is power. We process and learn from the act of talking in ways we can’t when we internalize. Don’t things and thinks sound very different out loud from what we have in our heads? Maybe you talk to yourself. Maybe you talk to God. Maybe you talk to the person you’ve wronged…. Maybe you talk to someone else, a friend, a stranger, a counselor, a priest, a dog, a horse. That choice is up to you. It’s the actual verbalization that is key.

We make a resolution for the future. This is deciding on a course of action. We put plans in place so that we don’t keep repeating the same mistakes again and again. Resolution = determination = decision. When you really decide you want things to be different – BETTER, you start making changes to achieve that goal and maintain it. Think of your resolution for the future as part of your personal training program. You’re training yourself to be a better person and have a better life for you and everyone around you.

The last ingredient is for us to leave what went before in the past and face forward. It means we leave all of what was negative behind. We stop dwelling on the wrongs we’ve done and the wrongs of others. This is a combination of thought and action. We stop all the head-spinning, stop bringing up the past in new arguments and get rid of physical reminders that keep us rooted in the past bad behaviors and problems. It means avoiding activities (and people) that bring us back to the negative crap we’re trying to get rid of.

So in not one of these steps is there a need for an “I’m sorry” statement. But if we all took these steps, wouldn’t life start getting better? And when life starts getting better and we start to feel good, won’t that change our perceptions? And isn’t that really forgiveness? A change of thought? A change from feeling trapped and suffering to feeling peaceful and free?


Now would probably be a good time for a coffee break. Or a pop. Or a salty snack. There’s more…


Pat and Froz, last week (and really all the weeks leading up to last week) you both had a realization that the past mistakes you’ve both made weren’t WHO you are. The mistakes aren’t you, just poor perception or bad judgment. You decided not to make those mistakes again because they don’t define you.

Last week you both returned to your marriage with excitement and dreams for the future and plans to start making those dreams reality. You both took time to rethink, refresh and regain your hope in each other, yourselves, your marriage and life in general.

Recently someone posted a question on the board asking something like what would you do if you weren’t afraid?

I’ll ask these corollaries too:

If you knew you couldn’t go wrong – what would you say to each other?

If you knew you couldn’t fail – what would you attempt to achieve?

What new dreams have you identified for yourselves individually? For your marriage?

How are you pursuing your new dreams now?


You hit a bump and you got bogged down. You’ve both spent almost a week being unhappy with a situation that has passed. It can’t be taken back. You have no choice other than going forward but you’re BOTH stalling. Why?

BECAUSE – the answer to why is always because… right?

Because it’s easier. Because it’s what feels normal now. You’ve gotten accustomed to being upset with each other. Being upset gives you something too. It gives you excuses for why your life isn’t more fulfilling. It gives you shelter from the unknown – you can’t always say what will make you happy with each other but you sure know what makes you unhappy. It’s funny how it seems easier to do what you know, fall back into old patterns and ways of being because they are familiar… even when you know it’s all going to suck later.

But even while you’re stalled, you’re both still trying. You’re both still progressing. You both refuse to give up. What’s the difference between the marriages that enter recovery and make it and the marriages that don’t? It’s not that one marriage has people who make mistakes and another has people who are perfect. Ha! It’s that in a successful marriage, we realize we make mistakes and refuse to give up while in the un-recovered relationships, one or both people give up after making mistakes.

The very fact that you are trying to change has value. Do yourselves a favor and skip the paralyzing guilt and blame. Try to focus on where you’re missing the mark. Where are your desires leading you? Where are you rebelling? This is all really lack of honest self-expression. Confront your fear of rejection. What are you afraid of anyway? That she’ll stop loving you Pat? That he’ll stop loving you Froz?

Take responsibility for your own actions (not the each other’s) and keep moving forward. Last week you were willing to tackle the hard stuff. You knew you had a lot of reality to confront. Find some more of that willingness tonight. You have so much more to learn and experience and until you start moving forward you’re just going to spend your time on the same s**t today, tomorrow, the day after, the day after that…

So you’re saying but I should be afraid. OK, some fear is healthy. But there’s a difference in how you use that fear in your lives. One way is to use the fear to return to unhappy activities, dangerous pursuits and fighting. Well duh! All that stuff produces adrenalin and that actually makes us feel good physically, even if only for a brief time. Emotionally we wind up heartsick but we like the familiar feel of the adrenalin and we know exactly which negative behaviors will get us there and we don’t always know which positive ones will… But negative is still negative.

The other way to use that fear is to say – I’m afraid that I’ll miss out on my chance for a happy life with you. I don’t want to miss out. You guys… You’re both missing out on each other. You’re never going to get the past back. You’re never going to get another opportunity to re-live the events of the weekend and make them better. You only get the opportunity to make yourselves and your lives better from this moment forward. You should be afraid of that. You should be afraid that you’re not using your opportunities wisely and to the fullest! Face that fear and embrace it.

Don’t miss out on each other any more today.

Sally

Sally,

What a wonderful, inspiring, focus-driven post!

Time prevents me from responding properly. We will discuss this between the two of us and be back to answer your questions later.

Froz

Print this and post it on your refrigerator. Insert HIM/HER that way it can apply to patriot too. Each of you read it outloud to yourself every day and then ask yourself if you've made any progress in the restoration of your marriage.

I wrote the following last night, and decided not to post it. I wasn't comfortable with what turned out to be a "Pep Rally Post," because when reading it over, it seemed to be overly simplistic, and unappreciative of the tough times you both are going through.

But since it's still sitting here, WTH... if for no other reason than to know I wish you both well.

-----

Maybe you two need to miss each other.

I said to my WW, as we were supposedly "recovering" (we weren't; unbeknownst to me at that time, she was still involved in the A)....

"We're THIS close..."

And I pinched my thumb and index finger together...and I felt we WERE that close... to connecting, and
moving forward. And even though she was in a huge amount of turmoil at the time, I think she KNEW that we were JUST that...

"THIS close..."

So, I think about you guys, who seem to be much, much CLOSER...

and it PAINS me to see this day after day after day.

I know this is all extremely complicated. I know the FRUSTRATION is HUGE on both sides.

Patriot, consider this:

1) you're married to a woman who has yelled to The World that she loves you, and is committed to making your M work.
2) you're married to a woman who is willing to "spill her guts" for you.
3) you're married to a woman who is strong, intelligent, and to top it all off... as you've said... beautiful.

Consider all of the above a gift! None of the above should be taken for granted... you're a lucky man!

Froz,

1) you're married to a man who has yelled to The World that he loves you, and is committed to making your M work.
2) you're married to a man who has resolved to do whatever it takes to make you happy.
3) you're married to a man that's strong, intelligent, and I have no clue what he looks like (that's the requisite humor for the post <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Consider all of the above a gift! None of the above should be taken for granted... you're a lucky woman!

Or, you can both go on the way you are, slowly but surely replacing all those gifts with more and more doubt, and resentment, and then maybe, eventually, start to manufacture in your own heads how life on the other side of the fence must be so much better...

Appreciate what you have in each other. Concentrate on the good! And knowing you're both committed to each other and to a healthy, happy partnership... have some fun, relax a little, take a step back and take a deep breath, and know that in time you will conquer these things.

Remember that life ain't perfect, we ain't perfect, and neither are our chosen partners! Never!

Accept the fact that there may be skeletons in the closet (as we all have), and baggage to cart around (as we all have), and lots of faults and hangups and fears and insecurities... (as regular-old-normal humans, we all have).

See the good in each other, and forgive the not-as-good-as-you'd-like (and do the same for yourselves!) -- that's what loving someone means.

Once you do that, then... over time, helping each other to unload some of the baggage could be a very rewarding experience.

Froz, a few weeks ago I wrote something to you about humility... maybe the above ramble is what I was thinking.

At any rate...like I said, maybe you two need to miss each other.
Maybe then you'd realize what you have.

tqt,



I'm so glad you did, tqt. I often find your responses helpful. This one has been no exception.




1) I'm very grateful for that. I'm very grateful that he has never given up on me, or on our M. He has remained steadfast - no matter what. I am very grateful for that.
2) I'm grateful for his resolve.
3) I'll tell you what he looks like from my eyes. To me, he is physically perfect. He sets the standard for all others and no one could possibly measure up. He is a much harsher critic, though.

He has soft, very bright blue eyes that smile when he smiles. They light up his whole face. He has so many qualities about him that are so masculine - his jaw, his hands, his voice.

His voice is so comforting that I've made him promise that if I am ever comatose to continually talk to me in the voice he uses. He can talk me out of any nightmare or panic attack, simply because his voice has such a calming effect for me.

He is bald - the kind of bald where he was getting there and said "to heck with it" and just shaved his head. I love it. It completely suits him and makes him look tough. It makes a nice contrast with his soft eyes and gentle voice.

He is tall. He is strong, and he has a very kind way about him. He is very compassionate. Some of those may not be physical attributes, but they all play a part in how he looks through my eyes. He is beautiful. I tell him every day.

I hope I haven't embarrassed him. (I just POJA'd with him just in case, and was given free reign to describe away).
Did I mention he has a beautiful smile that warms my heart?



Some of that is definitely in order.




What wonderful advice, and very well put. I think I'll put that on my refrigerator.




Yes, I remember.


I will remind myself while he's still here, rather than wait until he is gone. I don't want to miss him.

Thanks for sharing that, tqt. It was a lovely reminder.

Sincerely,

Slushy

Did he meet your needs pre-A? Did you feel loved by him pre-A? Why was that not real?


<sigh>

Froz, this is not about judging you. I am trying to get you to look at you very closely. Either Patriot was a great husband (maybe he was, I don't know!) or there were alot of problems with Patriot that you ignored.

And if you ignored those problems, then yes, denial is a good word.

This is not assigning blame. This is simply looking at what-is, and who you are in your relationship, and who you are as a person.

Why you?

Because you are the one I am talking to. I am not talking to Patriot and about his part of your marriage. I am talking to you. And honestly, for my purposes, Patriot could be a poisonous purple headed bullfrog with giant warts. So what?

Focusing on what kind of husband he is, will not help you even one iota. You can't control him or fix him or change him. He is who he is.

Focusing on how you can be a better wife IS something that can help you. You can control you, fix you, change you. And those changes will AID your marital recovery if you choose it, or aid your life after Patriot.

Froz hun, I am in recovery. I will be celebrating my 15th wedding anniversary on Sept 15. I know how I got to the recovery that I have, and I have been where you are. I know that your recovery doesn't stand a chance if you don't do some growing and changing. Even if it turns out that Patriot is really a selfish evil jerk with nasty long horns, and that you truely have been the innocent victim, I know that you will need the same exact growth and change in order to survive this and find happiness post-divorce either alone or with someone else. My point earlier in this thread, was that maybe part of the problem in your relationships, was YOU. And that part of that symptom was your choice in men.

Those issues must be addressed Froz, whether you leave Patriot or not. Obviously, you can choose to ignore those issues and hope for better 'luck'.

Or you can stand up and take responsibility for your life, your happiness and your choices.

The whole point Froz, is to identify YOUR patterns. Your patterns have contributed to the state of your marriage. I can point you at those things. I am not going to sit here and sympathize with how mean and evil Patriot is.

I know for a fact that it took my FWS husband well over a year before some of his patterns settled down to where I felt safe. Well after he moved back home and started working at recovery, he still did things that hurt me. It was never so simple as my listing my needs directly and then he marching along following instructions. I know that I hindered his progress in learning to love me with my lovebusters.

By focusing on MY responsiblities in our marriage, I got what I wanted and needed faster.

I know that when my husband, to this day, ticks me off, that I have to look at my behavior first, before looking at his. I know that if my focus is always on him, what he is doing or not doing, or what he should be doing, or what I want him to do....that NOTHING will happen.

Now going back to the denial comment...


Who is "everyone'? Not I. Do I sometimes disagree with your disrespectful interpretation of his behavior? Yes.


I am happy in my marriage. My needs are not met.

My husband's primary relationship is with alcohol. I can not have the intimate relationship with him that I would like to have. But I have learned to accept him as he is, and be grateful for what he can give me. No, I'm not scraping at crumbs...I've just stopped playing Poor Me. I've chosen this marriage, and so I take repsonsiblity for my part in it. I changed ME, Froz, and those changes completely utterly changed my life and my happiness for the better.

If I had waited for my husband to 'get it' after my direct, simple ENs-for-dummies explanations, I'd still be waiting for happiness.

Doing a better job at loving my husband, instead of keeping score (which you are doing), made my husband feel loved and therefore, far more interested in loving me back. I get so much more from him by loving him than I do by scorekeeping.


Not one time have I suggested you should be a doormat. What I and others have said is that your happiness is NOT his responsibility. It's his job to be a good husband and meet your ENs. It's your job to choose happiness. You choose happiness by caring for yourself.

I'm not really asking you to give more to Patriot. I'm asking you to give more to yourself and to stop expecting more from Patriot.

I am asking you to refrain from harming. I am not saying give more, I am saying hurt him less.

Yes, I get that he is hurting you. But I don't know anyone that lovebusted their way into marital bliss. Do you?

If you are not willing to change your behavior towards him, why should he be willing to do so for you?

I'll repeat what I posted earlier:


Froz ~ one more thought.

Your feelings are yours. Feel anything and everything you want. Its your choice. Your feelings can not be a lovebuster.

What is a lovebuster is how you act as a result of those feelings. I know, you think that you are not doing anything of the lovebusting sort when hurt.

That's not what Patriot is experiencing. Or is he lying?

Not for a second, am I condoning his behavior. But if you can't take some responsibililty for what happens...I don't give your recovery a very high chance in suceeding.

Sally,

We didn't make as much progress as we'd hoped going over your post. We got about 1/3 of the way through. We're still working on it. You raised a lot of very interesting questions.

I was unaware of the entire situation. Had I been presented with all of the facts, I could have made a fairer assessment.



I do feel a bit judged here sometimes, but not necessarily by you. I don't mind the way you prompt me to take a closer look at things or view them from a different perspective. I find it quite helpful, actually. I see that you are trying to "get me to look at me very closely" and take it as such, with appreciation.




A few corrections, if I may...Patriot was not a husband pre-A. We were married a month after D-Day. Sounds crazy, I'm sure...may have been crazy, but that's a whole other topic.

As far as denial, there was none. I don't think it would really be fair to say I was in denial. I wasn't. He was a clever liar and he fooled me. If my failing was trusting him, because he had never given me a reason not to trust him, then so be it. I wasn't in denial. I'm not a fortune-teller, nor am I a mind-reader. I was simply fooled.




I understand and you're right.



I understand and agree with this, also.



I don't expect anyone to sympathize. I point out specifics of things he's done, merely to help anyone reading to understand how I got to the place I did. If you called him mean or evil, I would be the first to defend him, and I often have. He is neither mean, nor evil. I was simply trying to be understood, with regards to frustration.

As far as my patterns contributing to the state of my marriage, I agree. I will not, however, take responsibility in laying the groundwork for an A. I didn't. That may be a whole other topic, too, and require some background history. But since I wasn't married before the A, then yes, I will agree. Our entire M has been spent in Recovery. My patterns have contributed to the progress of our Recovery.




I have definitely been thrashed by others for not believing something he says. I am learning how my interpretation of his behavior is disrespectful and not conducive towards Recovery.




I am glad you are happy, despite that. I am not willing to accept a marriage where my needs are not met. I am not saying that it is impossible. I'm just defining a boundary for myself.




I'm not keeping score. I'm being aware of my threshhold for resentment. I will not give something and then feel resentment for it. I don't think that would be doing anything for my M. I may not be explaining this very well, but I explained it to Patriot earlier and he understood what I meant. So, that's good enough for me.



You're wrong. I don't think that at all. I don't define what is or isn't a LB for him. If he says it hurts him, then I'm sure it does. I'm working on learning to communicate with him in a manner that still allows me to be honest about my emotions and still prevent him pain. I've been having a difficult time accomplishing both.




I am completely willing to take responsibility for my actions.

I've been thinking about what you (or maybe others) said about my expectations being an impossibility for Patriot to achieve. It isn't true. My expectations are not enormous. He doesn't have to be perfect in order to meet my EN's. I don't have a narrow target.

Actually, frustration is one of the many faces of anger. Perhaps this bit of knowledge will help in your journey of self-exploration.

This is an excellent conversation you are having with BR (kudos to you BR!). Keep working at it.

Merge

Geez, will someone let me off the "anger" hook????

Just kidding. I'll explore that...thank you.

Froz, I have an idea...
When you're just SORTA angry, plop a few of these in strategic places: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
When you're REALLY angry: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When you're REALLY REALLY FLAMING PISSED: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It'll confuse the he|| outta everybody! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ha, tqt...

Do you REALLY think I need help confusing anyone????

Well... after a great deal of thought...

I guess you're doing ok as is.

Just don't let it go to your head. :-)

I'm gonna try your technique anyway. It can't hurt to throw 'em a curve every now and then. My tactics might be getting somewhat predictable. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (I'm not really "frustrated", I was just testing it out.)

No, its not a whole other topic. It is "the topic" my dear.

Why did you marry a guy that had just ripped your heart out? It's not like you were new to marriage...


I am not necessarily saying that Froz, you knew he was cheating and were in denial.

Denial is a sneaky little thing.

I was convinced I was not angry. My mom was a victim, my dad was the bad guy. And of course, I was nothing like my dad.

All of these things were part of my denial for years and years. I thought there was nothing wrong with me...everything was wrong with everyone else around me.

As I said to my husband one night (which was a lovebuster, but true none the less): What makes you so special? You grew up, surrounded by addicts and dysfunctional control freaks, and YOU some how came out ok even when no one else did? (All of his siblings have huge problems in their personal lives).


That you did not see the through the lies is understandable.

Alot of us have been there and experienced that!

What I think though, is that had you been a healthy person, Patriot probably wouldn't have been so darn attractive to you.


This is victim mentality.

You got to where you are, not because of what he has done, but because of your choices.


You have repeatedly said to me on this thread that he keeps hurting you.

You seem to waffle between saying he is knowingly hurting you....or he doesn't understand you.

You are a victim attempting to control the outcome because of your fear of being hurt. Either you are putting all the blame on him, or blaming yourself.

I can tell you that it just doesn't matter which it is on his part right now.

What matters is how you care for yourself.

I will bump my Detachment with Love thread for you.

There are some things in there I think might help you.


I wasn't suggesting you should stay in a marriage that your needs are not met.

I wasn't suggesting that my choices should be yours.

What I was trying to point out to you is that "needs being met" does not equal happiness.

[color:"purple"]Happiness is a choice that you make, not a need your spouse fills[/color].


Really?

This earlier quote is not resentful?


You said similar things on this thread more than once.

Froz, you are angry and you are frustrated. You are frustrated because you are giving with the expectation of a specific outcome. When you are not getting what you want ( a self-willed outcome) you say you are frustrated - and as Merge pointed out - its just another word for angry.

As long as your motivations involve controlling Patriot (attempting to get him to see things your way and fill your needs your way) you will continue to be frustrated and angry.

This is another reason to call Steve. Steve told my husband what he had to do,not me. Steve did the demanding and told me I could not because it was a selfish demand from me.

Has Patriot called Steve? No?

That to me speaks volumes.

Btw, thats how Steve figures out who is in recovery and who isn't. When the WS makes the appointments, you are on track.


Then no more victim talk. Really. Because as long as your focus is on HIM and what he is doing wrong, you are a victim, and not taking responsiblity.

Now lets talk about your decision to marry a known adulterer who is not emotional available and who controls and avoids conflicts by lying?

Why I married him when I did is the topic? I didn't know that. I guess I was just tired last night and it seemed like it would take a really long explanation.




Heck, I'm sorry. I'm slow tonight. Are you saying that I knew and was in denial about it? I just want to make sure I understand.




Phew! I thought I was gonna have to fight you on that one! Thank God, I'm a little bit normal! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />




Can both not be true? I guess I meant "knowingly" in that I maybe it was unknown the first time, but when he continued after I told him that his behavior hurt me, then he would be doing it knowingly.




Yeah, I know (begrudgingly admitting). Darn, I was wrong.




Ha! Beat you to it!!!! It was very helpful. Immensely.




Ouch!

Yeah, it was extremely resentful. I guess I should say that I don't really feel comfortable giving if I'm going to resent it. I don't like it. Talk about the Taker talking!!!!



I see what you mean now.



No, he hasn't yet. We've discussed it and his reasons for not accomplishing it yet are valid. I have confidence that he will get this done.




You would really do that to me???? Take away my victim status???? Fine.



Something tells me this task isn't going to be fun...

Thanks for not giving up on me. I really appreciate your help.

Okay, I posted this to someone else today. We can start there. This is going to sting, I know. I'll be brave, though.

I was in shock. I was completely operating based on that. I knew I didn't want to lose him, and I wasn't ready or able to accept everything that was happening. So I went through the motions.

- My H is an Army guy. We found out that October that he was to be deployed just after the first of the year to Afghanistan. He was to be gone about 12-18 months. In my heart of hearts, I knew that if I didn't marry him before he left, that I would lose him. I knew that, out of a need to cope, I would heal on my own and move forward without him.

I really didn't think we could recover from all that was happening when he was so far away, particularly when his departure was to be so soon after D-Day.

- We were kind of scared to call off the wedding. I didn't want anyone to know or suspect what was going on. That reason wasn't a huge factor, but it did play a small role. It probably would have been fairly easy to explain that we just decided to wait until he returned from his deployment to get married.

Are you SURE you don't want to discuss something a little less controversial??? Perhaps my career or how great my two beautiful teenagers are???

LOL. Tell me your secret for great teenagers. I've got 1 and soon to be 2. Both boys. I'm already pulling out my hair with the first. I had no idea that boys could be such drama queens!

BTW, I guess I was just awkward about how I worded my points about denial. I don't think you were in denial about Pat's cheating. I think you are in denial about you!


You feared losing him because? He was such a great catch??


I don't believe this. This is part of your denial.

The secret to great teenagers is...luck??? I don't know. I think I just got really lucky.

Although, I definitely know what you mean about teenage boys. My fifteen-year old DS is kind of grumpy these days. But, he steers clear of trouble and makes excellent grades. I'm hoping the grumpy thing will pass.




Because in my mind, not having yet accepted everything that had happened, he still was. Everything happened so fast and I felt way off balance. I loved what I thought we had and I wasn't ready to let go of it.



Huh? He was leaving for a year and a half. Chances are, we would have grown apart. You really disagree? I don't see how I could have single-handedly healed this relationship, given those circumstances.


By the way, he really is a great catch (despite the fact he was a liar and a cheat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). He understands most of my quirky, weird ways, he has a good job, my children love him, my family loves him, he's smart, funny, and extremely attractive. Once I get him under my control, I think he's gonna make an alright husband. (I'M KIDDING!!!!!!!)

- My H is an Army guy. We found out that October that he was to be deployed just after the first of the year to Afghanistan. He was to be gone about 12-18 months. In my heart of hearts, I knew that if I didn't marry him before he left, that I would lose him. I knew that, out of a need to cope, I would heal on my own and move forward without him.

What would have been so bad about that? Seems to me that it might still need to happen...the healing on your own part...and moving forward.

The way it stands now, your concentration on HIM and what he is or is not doing for you is keeping you from concentrating on YOU...and what you need to do to heal yourself. He cannot heal you...only you can do that.

committed

editing to add: by "losing" him and moving forward without him, I take that to mean breaking up...not his death. I read that twice and realized that it could sound like losing = death.