Hi Paradise,

Thank you for inquiring about my family. We are actually having quite a lot of rebellion from one of our daughters. It is putting quite a strain on the entire family and the marriage. I am more vigilant this time.

Paradise, you appear to have a very good clarity of mind and clear grasp of your situation. You are doing all the right things. We cannot control our feelings. The pain, despair and loss of self esteem. Believe me that with the passage of time, this all improves. Again, writing it all down is very therapeutic. It also declutters your mind.

The OW is smart but appears to be very needy. She is in therapy twice a week. Is this what your husband was attracted to, the protector in him. On the other hand, you are intelligent and quite capable of looking after yourself.

Is your work arrangement going to continue as is? Are you able to go your separate ways with respect to your company.

All the best and continue looking after yourself

Innocence_Lost

Hi IC,

My mother used to rail at me saying " Wait till you have teenagers. I fooled her I didn't have any." You have my heart felt compassion. I have several friends who are reliving their teen age angst from the other end of the spectrum these days. It can be just day to day tough.

I was in the elevator this moring with a young lad who had the same ipod as I did. We were both standing there smiling ...into the music,,,, me into Chet Baker and him I don't know what that was... It seems music is a remedy for both teen age woe and middle age bewilderment. Have you tried giving her some portable music..

It is tough growing up ... they are so uncertain of everything ... themselves ... their bodies...who they should be..

Or conversely, maybe you need one... then you could tune into something else sometimes!

Cheers,

PB

Hi Dukhuntr,

I liked your comment about letting go of the steering wheel and seeing where the road takes you.. I'm going on a road trip today for a couple of days .. I'll think about the analogy - with both hands on the wheel though!

Thanks too for the compliments. A chap in my meditation class said last week that he was told by a bonafide guru that you will never be enlightened if you think you are special.

I do think I am special. I am lucky in that. Where I am much much luckier still is that I absolutely know that everyone is equally special in a unique way. You are special. The gal you had dinner with is special. My OW with her lovely dark eyes, seductive smile and complicated problems is special. My husband is special. We are all special, I think because we are all very much alive and part of some larger very connected whole...

"... to know you are neither separate from nor superior to anyone." - Sogyal Rinpoche

Life is special. Every single moment.. including - no especially the agonizing moments are precious. They are the part of the experience that gives the contrast. If every thing in life was just plain happy - the picture would have no depth...

Thanks again for your encouragement...

Now after all that philosophizing.. I have to go clean out my fridge and pack... I hope you have a great weekend!

Cheers

PB

So what did I tell you? Get that book started. dukhuntr is right.

dukhuntr-would it be possible to have some background on you, so we may all help out here? Reno huh? We were thinking of a motorcycle ride up there for the run last weekend. It is very warm today (was suppose to be 90 but hit 101).

IC-I have a 22 yr old son and a 16 yr old daughter. Son has moved out on his own over a year ago. Daughter is definitely in her teenage state. May I be of some help? Just ask.

PB-I hope you have a wonderful road trip. Yes, only metaphorically of course...let go of the steering wheel and see what happens. Sometimes the harder we try the less we succeed (for the moment). I don't feel the OW is "smarter", manipulation is not a sign of genius.

holiday

Holiday,
I am one of those unfortunate people who found this site too late to turn the tide in my marriage. I met my EXWW in HS and we had been together ever since. She was the only woman I was ever with and I think I was the same for her, until D-Day. Now after a lot of hindsight and emotional discussions with her I even doubt that. She is the epitomy of a conflict avoider. Her picture would appear next to the definition in an encyclopedia.
We had 28 great years together and few if any problems for the most part. I am an avid outdoorsman and I also could be termed as OCD about golf. I kept the compulsive sports under control until the past few years when the kids started doing their own things. Before that we were the softball, little league and girl scout family. Both my Ex and I coached, ran snack bars and did our part to make these activities enjoyable for our kids.
As the kids got older my Ex went back to work after being a SAHM for 15 years. Since her return to work we have been really concentrating on improving our financial situation and retirement accounts. As I saw it things were finally starting to really look good for us. We were saving for retirement and still had the money to do the things we had always wanted to but just couldn't afford on one income. Both of us agreed that this had worked out perfectly for us because we had two independent, intelligent and well adjusted kids that loved us and loved life.
Well, I thought this at least. The Ex on the other hand felt trapped and pidgeon holed into the housewife mold. What she has said is she "just couldn't stand to do the same things day after day any more". She has also said that "she needed more than she was getting at home" and wanted "someone to care what she wanted". All of this first came out after I found her with a co-worker in a motel room. She had already been seeing him for 8 months every time I left town to hunt, fish or golf. She had even called friends of mine to go when I wasn't planning a trip and told them "he needs to get out more" just to be able to go to him. And the best part is he's 15 years younger than her and although she knows "its not a permanent thing" she "just couldn't give up what she had going" with him
Well after D-day I did pretty much everything MB says not to do. Lots of LB's, and first and foremost I made her leave the house. I told her to stay at her parents house across town(They were out of town), she went to the OM's apartment instead. From there everything that I could do wrong I did. Checking on her, calling her, e-mails appealing to her morals, etc. Needless to say it pushed her closer to him and they began appearing around town as if they were married already. After two months of the phone calls from friends telling were they were and what they were doing I couldn't take it anymore and we got the divorce. She said she didn't want it but in the end she asked me to get it done.
So here I am a single man again and not liking it much at all until just recently. About the only good to come out of this is I lost 45 pounds in 8 weeks and have only gained a few back. Don't get me wrong I am still in need of losing "more than a few pounds". So there you have it. The rest of my life before all of this has faded into the background and this stuff dominates my thoughts now. If I had not been born and raised here and been blessed with many great friends I would not be here now. I was a mess and they(along with a great MC)restored me to a functioning individual again. The AD's are also a blessing.
The kids are not happy but they just want us to get to a place where we all just go on. I think they need some peace in their lives too. Sorry for the long post but I still just seem to go on and on about all of this when given the opportunity.

Dukhuntr

Paradise,
Get the journal packed first! Your road trip will just be the next chapter in your book to be. I look forward to reading the story. This road trip is one in which you should definitely grip the steering wheel, but only while on the actual roadways. The remaining time at your destination should be traveled 'hands free" and as carefree as possible. Have a wonderful trip!

Dukhuntr

P.S. - Holiday, You should have come up for Street Vibrations! If you are into bikes you need to see this event. It's still new enough that the crazier elements haven't found it and its an amazing assembly of bikes and bikers in a small area. Lots of runs and lots of parties, plus plenty of exhibits and vendors.

dukhunter...first wow...I read your post and you can always make it long as you need it to be, that is why we are here, to be heard!

Yes, Street Vibrations, I need to tell you...that is where my H met the OW (his 2nd A). They met in one of the local bars and well, you can guess the rest of the story. Now I'm not sure if I want to visit Reno (I think I will, but right now, well, doesn't sound fun to me).

Do you and your wife get along after all of this? Is there any chance of reconciliation even after the divorce?

holiday

Holiday,
Sorry about the Street Vibration call. That can't be a pleasant memory. I have been in a late plan B with the EXWW for over a month now and really no change at all. I think it was an exit A. She as I said is the ultimate conflict avoider. She went so far as to put a vacation mail hold on my mail after she left so she could sort out what she didn't want me to see before she brought it over to the house. If I hadn't come home for lunch one day and run into the mailman I would have never known.
She had been running up credit cards and getting new ones when she maxed out the old ones. No, I made her keep those in the divorce. They were all in her name only anyway. She and the OM are still in their thing and going strong. It continues even though our kids won't go near him nor her parents or brothers. My friends and family have all threatened bodily harm if I start talking reconciliation again. I would still try, I still have some love for her but she would have to really, really want to come back to clear the hurdles I have erected now. I don't think she has the desire anyway. Too much conflict to resolve for her. She went to MC twice, didn't like what she heard the first time and the second time she said she wanted to get back together. After hearing that I was so excited I went to her apartment to see her and the OM was there. Same thing the next morning. Called her to ask what was up and she lied and said she hadn't seen him in weeks. Needless to say she never went back to MC.
She has pretty much sealed herself off to everyone except the OM and the friends who didn't express any negatives to her. Only sees our kids once a week for dinner for an hour or so and even abandoned her dog to me. She still rages about exposure six months later. Reno is still really just a small town still and I know she is still being confronted by people weekly. Again not liking the conflict she created.
Well if Reno doesn't appeal to you Tahoe is incredible right now. The trees are changing color right now and the weather is perfect up there. Nothing more beautiful than the Tahoe basin in fall colors. The crowds are gone for the most part and the prices are way down on rooms. I hope you weekend was pleasant. Have a great week!

Dukhuntr

I was going to add I'd love to visit Tahoe!
Sorry to read of your EXW's issues. Too sad she didn't stick it out in MC. She will continue to have the same issues in the next relationship.
Have a wonderful evening. Still hot here. Til tomorrow,
holiday
PS Hope pb is having a wonderful trip!

Hi Holiday/Dukhuntr,

I do love road trips... They are easy - you can decide and go in usually less than 20 minutes. The dog and I looked at each other Saturday morning - nodded and off we went.

I made a quick call and we ended up joining some friends for a seafood dinner and spent the night on their boat in the Thousand Islands. I arrived at the restaurant first, ordered a table for five. There were four of us - three grown ups and a lovely teenage daughter. The waiter asked if the fifth was joining us soon. I just smiled said no actually it's just me living in the past. Everyone looked down or away for a moment while he took the place setting away.

We talked and laughed like we have been doing for decades. I brought a photo in a magnetic frame of when my girlfriend and I were in our early twenties - and definitely babes - her eyes shining with strength and confidence - mine with mischief. It is great cleaning out your house - you find wonderful things ...

The next day we worked getting their boat ready for the winter. I have gimpy shoulder she has a sore hip - we did everything carefully... taking sails down, caulking hatches, storing lines - it was a sunny day... on brillant blue water. What more could you ask for?

Amazing how the weekends go so fast.

Glad to see you two chatting, it helps to talk about it - Dukhuntr .. particularly with people who have been through it...

Tahoe would be a great trip!

Cheers,

PB

Journal,


Late Saturday night - wrapped in a sleeping bag, I stared out a boat hatch at an incredibly starry sky and missed my husband unbearably. The dog was snoring. I thought of how many nights I had laid awake lisening to them both snore, usually grumpy because it was keeping me awake ...

Groping around in the dark, I turned on Taj Mahal, cranked up the earphones and lisened to that deep baritone voice sing "Put some shake in your shaker and quake in your quaker..." I find now even when I'm crying, if I'm lisening to great music, my toes and feet move to the beat. I think this is a very good sign .. it means I have some body parts having a good time! Before I knew it my good shoulder was moving and my head was bopping.

I started to remember just how much I love to dance. I use to sail on the Tall Ships and we would have just great impromtu dances - unfortunately almost always all girls under the moon while gliding through the water.

I like all kinds of dancing from the playing the imaginary guitar in your stocking feet shimmy to a hot latin rumba....

Dancing is a metaphor for SF - it is all about rhythmic, paired movement, connecting in space fully aware of your body and your partner's body ... moving with a flow...While I wouldn't describe myself as sexually experienced I did cover more bases than my husband did before our relationship - the guy who could play me like an instrument - was a great dancer!

I am convinced if we had learned how to dance well together we would have scored high marks for SF.

He hates dancing. Since we have been married not counting our wedding dance - to "As Time Goes By" I can count on one hand the number of dances...I have had with him.

If he ever decides he wants to come back to our marriage - my number one condition is going to be that the man learn how to dance with style, grace and abandon! I mean - jive, latin, ballroom, not just the regular old hip swaying wiggle , did I say latin - the works.

I think the chickens have a very good point on dancing... What good is a male if he can't dance? If he can't strut his stuff - what does that tell you - girls?

Journal,

After signing off last night, I took the dog out to quickly stretch his legs before bed, thinking at 1.30 a.m. I was safe I walked past the OW's door and promptly ran smack into her.

The woman without question has had me completely wupped.

In the last year and one half I do not think I have looked her straight in the eye. I wear sunglasses, peaked caps, I look away. In the final weeks we walked together when she really started to be aggressive, I pretended I didn't hear her and talked out about the weather. "So do you think it will snow soon!" Perhaps not an apt reply to someone telling you they are in love with your husband; will be handling his divorce and that you probably won't be left with much after they are through. Later I just out and out avoided her.

When she blurted out their involvement, I could NOT let her see the devastation in my eyes... I was conscious that it might give her enjoyment and that would just be worse.

In business, if I let someone wup me like that I would make a poor living. It doesn't happen to me at work. I am not attached to the cash or outcome the same way I am to my husband. I can walk into a dicey dust up and smooth things out with calm pragmatism - never for a moment taking any of the issues personally. This is just so personal.

Last night I wasn't wearing sunglasses, no hat.. I didn't look away... I looked her straight in the eye and I gave her my own slow megawatt smile. Unfortunately, it wasn't with the true compassion I aspire to. It was with the thought " Darling I have seen you dance..."

It really does help to journal, slowly you sort out the jumble of emotions you feel into an ordered outlook on the situation. Thanks guys for encouraging me do this - it is working..

Paradise,
Sounds like you crossed one small barrier in your life already, just as I did. The passion you have for life and the world around you will get you thru all of this. I wish I could be as strong emotionally as you. I still get really uptight and weak when I have to see the EX. I actually make my self sick thinking about seeing her again. I think that is why I try to avoid it at all costs. I look at her and an image of the OM instantly comes into my head and the "why birds" start flying around again.
I don't know about you but each form of contact with her triggers all the same emotions all over again in me. They don't last as long anymore but the same cycle occurs each time. First you get the pangs of loss, then the whys, then the anger, and then lastly the sense of futility. The anger part is what really scares me. When I discovered them it was the first time I had any inkling anything physical was going on. I lost it in that motel room at Tahoe and I went postal on the OM and hurt him pretty good. After beating on him I went out to my truck and got a gun and headed back to the room to do something stupid and my daughter called me to ask if I had found her mother. She is the one who told me where her mother was.The Ex had called her to tell her she would not be home that night and to tell me not to look for her she needed to "think about our relationship". Caller ID gave her the number I used to track them down. When I told her I was going to do something drastic my daughter saved me, she talked me down by telling me how much she and her brother needed me. She said she didn't know where her mother was headed and needed to know I would still be there for her.
To this day that is the worst feeling I have ever felt. I lost my entire sense of self worth and was going to throw everything else that meant anything to me away because of my EX. After months of IC I can still recall that feeling and it scares me to think how fast I got there.
That is why I enjoy your posts and journals so much. You focus on everything else in life that is beautiful and rewarding even without the companion that used to make it more wonderful. The analogy between dancing and SF is perfect. When two people dance well together you see that they have connected in a way that is sensual and unspoken the same as in a physical relationship.

Holiday,
I have been writing all of this stuff out again for you guys and I do think the writing does help organize your thoughts and has given me a release from the self doubts. I talked my friends to death the last few months and it didn't seem to help at the time. It only served to keep everything fresh in my mind and painful. I do still have the reconciliation fantasies running thru my head all the time. I know in my head she will never change her CA issues but my heart seems to want to hang on to the vision of the future I had before all of this happened.
I have continued with IC and I have asked my counselor to get me to a place where I would not melt like a chocolate bar on a Las Vegas street in July if she were to show up and express a desire to come back to me. He's the same MC the EX went to and he is convinced this is where I need to be also. She lied to him too and had him completely convinced also. He still marvels on how well she can tell a lie and believe it herself.
Right now I have been helping my kids cope with some more bad news. Their uncle on the Ex's side who has been very close to them their whole lives has just been arrested on his 5th DUI. A long term alcoholic who has been thru rehab 4 times and narrowly missed mandatory jail the last time now is headed for a long strech on prison. We all knew it was coming, but we have done all we could even interventions and such. I feel the worst for my ex-mother in law. Her comment was "great, now I have two felons and an adultress for children". The other uncle had a drug problem and the usual issues regarding how he got the money to support his habits.
I guess my problems are getting less and less critical in terms of what they could be. I'm home sick today with a flu bug so that's why I seem to be going on so long here. I can't sleep and I ache too much to just lie down and watch TV. Hope all is weel with you and let me know if you decide to run up to Tahoe. You don't need a tour guide there but I do know some great eating and drinking spots that enhance any visit. I do also know of one motel in particular you might want to avoid. Bad karma there!

Dukhuntr

Duck season opens Saturday!- Bad news for the duckies this year- no restrictions on how much time spent in the marsh and a humidor full of cigars to smoke while hunting.

dukhunter...amazing...your wife's family has a few of my H's relatives, not kidding.
I think my H comes from an additive background and has fought long and hard not to fall victim to it completely.

He is one of 7. Oldest brother has been married three times. The last marriage of 13 years ended with him having an affair with his old "high school sweetheart", whom she left a 30 year marriage for.

Next oldest is a sister who has been through three husbands, two children by different Fathers, a multitude of jobs, all which end in her giving them a lawsuit. As well in a 9 week retreat for sex addiction.

Next a sister who has three children, all by different Father's First one born when she was 15 and her Mother raised her son as her own. Her oldest daughter is addicted to meth and three years ago sued our insurance for $100,000.00 when she and my H tipped over on his motorcycle while giving her a ride and skining her shin.

Next his brother who in high school was the biggest druggie which then converted in his 30's to being the biggest NA rep in the state he lives in (was a blessing). Married twice, divorced once, but before converting to a drug free life his first wife was addicted to gambling and uppers.

Then my H's youngest brother. Has two children with two different women, one he married, one he was in high school with. Ex wife has 3 DUI's, that we know of (she still drives around with my 8 year old nephew unseatbelted in the car).

My family doesn't have too much going on. Rather we have issues that our parents basically raised us then we moved out and they began their lives without us (they don't really even contact their grandchildren).

Soooooooo, everyone has somethin'.

I will say a prayer for our children tonight. I will also pray that I will have words to express inspiration for us in the future.

Have a nice evening...you too PB!

holiday

Hi Dukhuntr/Holiday,

Wowser...those were some posts. I will need time to digest all the information and complicated situations....

Spent 9 hours in an emergency room tonight with my Dad - I had picked him up from his nursing home yesterday and popped him up to my Mom for his weekly overnight visit.

When you are confined to a nursing home - getting to spend a night at home with your wife is a treat. He takes her out to get her hair done and they have a diner lunch. It's a big deal.

Tonight, when I went to pick him up, he had severe chest pain.... He is still in the hospital but stable and doing well.... perked up right away when a very pretty nurse came on shift... Men are men no matter how old they get...

Got to go to bed ... pooped.

Oh pb...I will say a prayer for your Dad. My Dad was in 5 hour surgery yesterday...my Mom didn't tell any of us (3 siblings) about his surgery until last Thursday, so no one was able to be there for them. Again, they are a strange couple. I called her last night to check on her and she had been sitting in the waiting room for over 4 hours without anyone, nor any of the staff letting her know what was going on.

I forgot to add that my H does have one wonderful sister (I didn't think to add her into that above mix). She was married at 18 to a fella coming home from Viet Nam pretty messed up (drug wise). Divorced after only a year. Then married to a wonderful man for almost 19 years whom passed away in 1996. Now married to another wonderful man who is a quadrapaligic (splg?).

I hope you both have a good day. I am off to Laughlin for the day to visit my niece and nephew,

holiday

Hi Dukhuntr:


" I actually make my self sick thinking about seeing her again. I think that is why I try to avoid it at all costs. I look at her and an image of the OM instantly comes into my head .....The anger part is what really scares me."

It sounds like contact with your ex is just toxic for you right now and to be avoided. I agree the anger is what I find the most challenging about this type of situation. Living so close to the action as it were... I have had a few murderous thoughts myself and I definitely get the urge to just break things. I've never experienced such strong negative emotions before.

Every time I pick up something up to throw it though ... I stop and think wait a minute this is mine and I really like it - plus it seems just rude to be scaring the dog. So instead, I go to the beach and imagine the waves just washing it all away.

Visual imagery is very powerful. You can use it too.

Yes she is acting in a way that hurts big time. However, on the flip side..everyone has the right to live their own lives.. make choices.. sometimes make very bad choices and learn from the consequences.

I am so happy you have a daughter and son that love you. There is always a plus in every situation ... for you it may be that you got two great kids out of the deal.

I never understood crimes of passion - how anyone could just so completely lose it - now I do. You have alot to be thankful for. A daughter who has the presence of mine to save you....from tossing your life away... and causing pain to others. What a gift..

Our marriage appears to be ending after a few quiet talks. I think after 25 years - there should be some yelling and a ruckus - maybe even alittle bit of smashed china. I have an emergency item that I plan to break - should the OW come over and tell me how sorry she is that our marriage failed. One of my husband's trophys - a ceramic bowl.. it should hurl through space nicely.... but by then I probably won't need to destroy anything.

Dealing with this is NOT about how strong you are, it is about perspective - how clearly you see the situation for what it is. Keep writing!


Hi Holiday,

I think I can understand, why your husband really appreciates you. He must look around at his brothers and sisters and then his own situation and think "Wow did I get lucky."

I believe he got very lucky!

Cheers,

PB

Holiday and Paradise,
I like to think I am past all of that anger now and I can cope with the rest of this stuff rationaly. I'm sorry to hear about you Dad PB. Coming at this time makes it even more difficult. ALthough it might serve to take your mind elsewhere for a while. Any break for me in thinking about my marital woes is welcome. I don't know about your sich but too much time thinking about one subject can't be good.

Holiday, your Dad and mine come for the same cloth. Mine has a multitute of physical problems and never tells anyone anything until it's done and handled or he is ready for you to know. It must be some sort of generational thing where they don't want to lose some of their independence? All you can do is be there for them when they are ready. In my case my father has been taking me hunting and fishing since I was 5yrs old. Now he's not really capable of going on his own and I take him out. I really enjoy this because I feel like it's my turn to give back some of what he gave to me. He used to carry me out on his back to the marsh so I could hunt. My mother who hates birds(angry rooster as a child) used to go just to help with my brother and I. I have done the same things for my son and daughter and I think this is what family is all about. Sharing what you enjoy and making memories.

Keeping perspective is a must in these times. PB you are right on the mark as usual. I have two great kids and I want to be there to share the time I have left with them and their children. We all have things that are worth looking forward too if you really sit back and think about it. Lost visions of how it would have been seem to cloud your thoughts and how you move forward. Maybe there is a "fog" that the BS needs to clear also. It's the fog of their version of where they were headed in life and where they wanted to be and with whom they would share it. The future you want is still there you just have to alter how you get there.

I want to thank both of you for sharing your thoughts with me. You can talk to friends all you want and they just don't know the depths of feelings involved if they haven't been thru this. The two of you have really helped me to put some clarity to my sich and I thank you again.

Dukhuntr

Journal,

I sat with my Dad tonight in the hospital. He was heavily sedated. He patted my hand told me "I knew you'd be here.. I just want to sleep now." He is looking very old. I know I am going to lose him.

Sometimes you come across or meet people - where spending time with them has been a priviledge. My Dad is the number one person I have felt lucky to spend time with. He still makes me laugh, think and be thankful.

I say prays for Dad daily. He doesn't need them. He is fine with where he is right now. I know he is getting tired and he wants to move on. I really need him to stay awhile longer though...besides which my Mom would be mad at him...if he pooped out on us before he made it to 90. She has been planning a party.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Woke up early this morning, poured a coffee and took the dog to the beach; I go to the beach now usually twice a day... sometimes early enough to catch the sun rise... and always after work to watch it set. My life is slowly developing a new rhythm. Every hour has music in it now practically... today K.D.Lang's song The Valley.

My husband would always wake me up in the morning with a cup of coffee. He was usually up first. I've been really missing that. Sitting on my kitchen counter this morning is a sleek stainless steel coffee maker. It has a timer!

Mrs. J (knitting teacher - cranky panky!) was sitting in our lobby this morning, waiting for a bus pick up to take her to her volunteer work at a nearby hospital. She made me promise to come to class; "We will have a joke and I will make you cake..." I really like her. She is a survivor. She has lived long enough to know what life is really about and is very happy to share it with you... life is all about sharing things...moments... smiles ... tears... cake and most of all jokes!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My Dad's cardiologist at the hospital called. He has refused to have an IV inserted. He won't allow them to put a tube down his throat either. All the invasive procedures that she would normally do to keep him alive -he is saying no to. He had a second heart attack yesterday.

After a long painful discussion we have elected to proceed with oral medication only. Should a code situation occur while he is being stablized - there will be surface electrical stimulation only and only if he will agree to it.

The doctor is saying that at this point with the damage already present - all the procedures required would be painful and only done if the patient is willing. He still could stabilize and live another few months or a year .. you can't tell....

Right now I really need a joke.

~~~~~~~~~~
At my Aunt's funeral, we lost track of the procession and ended up at the cemetry - front bumper to front bumper with the hearse - seeing the shocked dismay in the driver's eyes.

I was driving with my entire family in the car. We were on a narrow lane way and I couldn't back out of the way without literally driving over someone's grave. We ended up backing up over a mile like that - the hearse following us only a few feet away - the entire procession behind it. When we finally reached her open grave site, everyone in our car was laughing so hard - we were crying.. Dad was sitting beside me shaking with laughter saying between gasps how Grace would have loved it!

pb, keeping your Dad in my prayers as well as your Mom and you.

I wish I could have the same relationship you have with your Dad and you too dukhuntr. My Father never let me (nor any of us for that matter) in emotionally. In the past I had tried many of times to walk though his arrows to get close to him, but his aim was so precise.

For the past 15 years I really don't converse with him too long. I calculate just how long, 5 min, 30 min or woo hoo 1 hr has gone by without him saying something negative about me. I have since learned "it's not about me" which helps for the most part.

When my H betrayed me, it hurt all the worse as I felt "no man" can really care about me the way I need to be cared for. To date my H is trying very hard, but I do have little set backs.

Talking to my Father last night via phone to the hospital, it turned into the same thing. Only he was too drugged to sling an arrow, only could give me a tone on how I have never been in as much pain as he was in now. I sometimes find him down right infantile!

Oh well, I keep praying that someday God will show him the way.

Have a good day you two!

holiday