Journal,

O.K Duk, I will give it a shot.

When you get off the train and walk down towards the village, you overlook the valley. It looks like a village straight from a Grimm Brothers fairy tale. The village first came into existence in the 1300s and many of the original medieval structures still stand. It is a confusing maze of narrow cobble stone streets and wonderful architecture.

You can feel the lives lived over centuries here. The castle itself is just what a castle should be - an intriguing collaboration of many generations of three different families. Its court yards smell of wet old stone with a slight tinge of damp mold.

In summer the town is thronged with tourists, it was less busy while we were there. My brother nor I speak Czech. Although, his german is very good and it allowed us to bridge the occasional barrier.

The villagers themselves are very used to dealing with foreigners.. they live with throngs of tourists.. so at times I am sure they wish everybody would just stay home for a weekend.

The place is full of history, unscarred by any major disasters such as fire, earthquake or flood.

We were there for three days ... I could easily have spent longer.

The morning I awoke before dawn and watched the sun rise over the valley was enchanting. I sat thinking about how many sunrises had been witnessed over seven centuries from that spot. What they would have been thinking, hoping for...When you are there you can pratically see a rich fabric of shadowy human memories flowing all around you....

Paradise,

Old stone and mold, not as appealing as bakery and deli but just as descriptive. Being in a town that old would make you nostalgic about all the generations of people who have built the town and kept it alive all these years. My mother went to her family's home in Germany last year and told wonderful stories about how our family has lived there for centuries. She's into geneology in a big way and has her family traced back into the 17th century. All farming families and their homes are two stories. Mangers and stalls downstairs for the animals and the people live upstairs. Now the farm equipment is downstairs so it smells a little better. Cleaning the stalls must have been an important task in those days!

Mom brings our family history to us in more detail than I sometimes want to know. Many of the family pictures she brought back with her to put in her books had the wrong uniforms on the men during WW-II. I got smart and asked some stupid questions about which camp our family ran and got some really dirty looks. Mom was not amused! I mentioned to her my desire to visit Scotland and Ireland and now it looks like I will have company if I go. Her mothers family name is McSherry and she has yet to get very far on that side of her family. SO instead of golf and scotch we now will add churches and cemeterys. Wooooee! Maybe I can get drunk at the distilleries before we go to the graveyards!

I hope you are adding all of this stuff to one file to be compiled later into your book. This is by all means of the quality and interest to make it worthwhile. Have a great day tomorrow!

Hi Dukhuntr,

I think it is a great idea. Your mom will end up making the trip just that much better - notwithstanding all the graveyards.

Dad was very interested in genealogy too. He traced our family history back hundreds of years. We were Quakers who arrived in North America on one of the boats after the Mayflower - the Fortune. Our direct ancestor was a carpenter. The family farmed for centuries.

I have a lovely letter written by his grandson who was 16 during the American Revolution... it describes the reaction of people the day the first British blood was spilled. He made it sound much like the day Kennedy died. Everyone was in shock.. and horror. He wrote the letter when he was 93, it finishes with instructions for a distribution of tracts against slavery. He was active in the underground railroad. Letters from that era are so articulate... people spent hours every day writing to stay in touch...We were United Empire Loyalists who moved after the revolution to settle in Canada.

Dad would occasionally take me to a Quaker Meeting house near us. Their services are very different. No one speaks until they feel that they have something worthwhile to share- so there are long silences where you just lisen to the fire crackle...

Everyone's family is rich with history if you have the skill set to dig. Our oddest family lore is that a relative of my Dad and a relative of my Mom sat in one of the lifeboats together - when the Titanic sunk. One was a child care pioneer...the other a mistress.

War is horrifying for everyone there... really people should decide not to attend... My dad arrived on the scene after a fairly famous battle where an SS troop had died to the man. He still remembers it with tears. Their mail had just arrived and their letters from their families ... photos of dads, sisters, brothers, girlfriends, mothers drifted like snow over the bodies ... all blond boys ... very few out of their early teens...

Finding your roots in Scotland with an able detective at your side... sounds like fun to me.

Cheers,

Paradise

Journal

I sat with Dad last night ... he is sleeping alot these days and it is a hard to get him to take in food and liquids... While he slept.. I thought of how both our lives have been shaped by beaches at pivotal points ...his a landing in Normandy where he saw many childhood friends die..and relived in his dreams many times over. Mine a lovely sanctuary full of fun, happy dogs, all manner of sports...and very good company.

While I was away I read up on the Buddist thinking about dying. They believe it is much like changing your clothes.. you go onto a new life ... There are bardos or stages of dying as your spirit leaves your body. While I sit by my Dad I often pray... an odd mixture of just plain english, badly mangled Sanskrit, prayers of a variety of faiths. No harm in redundancy...

He always says I love you before he nods off...to me and the dog. He nods off and wakes up many times during our visits. There is a constant stream of I love yous.

The dog lies on his bed, scattering muddy footprints on the clean white linen.. curled up against his side.

My chair is against a window. It is a nice room. Lots of pictures.. plants.. with only a lamp on ... it is a peaceful place to sit and think at night. I believe people should not die alone if it can be helped... always better to have company. Dying is very much a part of life and life in all its aspects happy and sad - is just more fun with other people around.

When I got home last night I rented a great movie. Born into Brothels.. a story about a photographer who teaches a group of children in Calcutta how to take pictures.. a movie well worth seeing... The kids are fabulous fun... full of beans and mischief.

Hi Everyone,

Last night wasn't that bad. I felt so much better hearing that something is being done to transfer the OW. Still now sure if it's actually going to be done though. My logic is that if she was good enough to work for him for over a year why would they want to transfer her? All of a sudden she needs to be transfered????

I have another question. How do I handle when my husband's dad bashes me - even though I didn't do anything wrong to him or my husband? He's got very macho ideas. Lot of this rubbed off on my husband over the years. This hurts. Should I talk to the parents or just let it go. Holidays are coming up and they will be probably at our home.

Need some advice.

Sooohurt,

Just try to be yourself with the inlaws. You can hold your head high and know you have done nothing wrong. Inlaws seem to always rally around the family no matter what the circumstance. If you think about it, it is only natural and expected. As for the bashing I would try and get FIL off by himself and let him know you don't appreciate the bashing and to please stop, especially if its in your home.

As for the workplace, who cares what they think as long as it gets done. I would bet more people are aware of the relationship than you will ever know and word will get around. I guarantee H's superiors know by now after your calls to the HR person that something fishy is up.

Have you started woking with H on making things better between the two of you? Change your focus now that things are moving and work on yourself and your relationship with your H. The OW remember is only a symptom of a problem between you and your H.

dukhuntr,

Tough to talk to FIL - very macho! He only says stuff when I'm not around. He would "fold up like a cheap tent" if I talked to him - "yes me to death". Like I said a lot of my husband's ideals and ideas came from his dad. Very hard to get this out of his system.

So far as my husband in the workplace. I told him that everyone probably knows. He insists that they do not - maybe suspect but never told him so. Of course they never said anything to him - he's the boss! I guess if he keeps saying that they don't know it makes him feel better.

The HR will not admit to anything - they have to be confidential. But I know everyone knows - he only has about 5-6 people in his department - close quarters -how could they not know?

I'm trying to work at it. Last night wasn't too bad. I just have to wait and see if she gets transfered. Hoping very much. If the OW doesn't then that will be another issue.

Talked to my 18 yr. old daughter this morning before she went off to college. She's such a good kid. Very smart - got a full scholarship and she helps me a lot, when I need her emotionally.

I'm going to visit my dad now - I think I mentioned he's got Parkinson's. He lost his remote control and can't change the channels on TV. Very serious stuff. I found an old one in the house - hope it works for him.

Thanks again everyone. It feels good to talk to people who understand.

Hi Soooohurt,

Great news about the transfer. I'm really happy for you both. It will feel so much better when this is behind you.

Cheers,

Paradise

Hi everyone,

I should be sleeping but tonight I think I hit an all time low in my marriage. Just when I thought things were going better, something changed in my husband tonight.

At dinner he kept telling me and the kids he refused to quit his job, never, no one was going to tell him what to do. No woman was going to tell him what to do. He's the boss. I was not going to order him around.

After dinner we went for a walk - we usually do. He was so different, very non caring attitude, distant. After talking, I think I found out that the OW will not be transfered - he didn't admit it, but I could tell by his words. Kind of indicated his company didn't want a scandal. He kept telling me over and over that he refused to quit his job. I told him I couldn't live with the fact of him staying with the OW. That he was being disrespectful, etc. He can start looking actively for a new job once or if he found out the OW is not transfered. He just sounded so uncaring - his words. Again, I was crushed.

When we came back from the walk I went upstairs to bed. Came back downstairs to take medicine(zantac for panic attacks because I was so upset). I asked him what was more important to him - his job or his marriage. He couldn't even answer me - couldn't say anything. This hit me like a ton of bricks. To me my marriage is the most important thing.

I told him maybe he should be away from me for a while - to think. He said I was throwing him out, he didn't want to leave. I said I wasn't thinking of a separation or divorce, but I couldn't do this up and down anymore. I'm so tired of getting my hopes up that things are working fine and then taking two steps backward. I asked that he give some time so I can find a job, so I can handle the bills. Also, that if he goes not to let us loose the house and help with the bills. I just can't do this anymore. He said I should be satisfied that he's working, coming, home, having a house and that he broke the relationship off with the OW. Yet he's there with her everyday.

Incidentally, he is on this site giving advise to people. Can you beat that? His site is "no more drama". He's giving advice when his marriage in falling apart.

I don't know what to do. I'm sitting here in tears, in the middle of the night when all I want is my husband to love me and all he can do is be macho.

Please need help soon.

I think he was saying these things because of what his father had told him a day or so ago. His father said several hurtfull things to him about me - I think he is taking his advice. The advice was that the man should be the boss and his decision is final, not mine and I shouldn't "lead my husband around with a ring in his nose".

Hi Soooohurt,

Your last post is a heartbreaker. The fact remains that your marriage doesn't stand a chance if your husband is in all day contact with a woman he has had a recent sexual and emotional affair with. A woman who is actively pursuing him.

It is simply not pragmatic to assume that everyone he works with already doesn't know about this. Of course they do - small group - absolutely it has been a topic of general discussion.

His transfering her will certainly confirm it. Perhaps he thinks it is better to face down the gossip by ignoring the situation.

No way around it, he is in a mess. Leaving the job might be a happy solution. She is a unionized employee. He is management. If she complains there will be a hearing of some nature. She has enormous leverage to cause him damage, should she choose to.

Does you FIL know about the affair? Does he know why you want either the woman transferred or your husband to change jobs?

Giving up an affair is really difficult. She is a fantasy world which makes him feel great. You are making him feel like a schmuck. It is really hard for truth to compete with fantasy when truth makes you feel awful. He may be in withdrawal. There are some great threads by WS who have dealt with the pain of withdrawal first hand.

I agree with his by line... no more drama... however...in this situation who is bringing drama to the table? Infidelity, nowadays... it is negligent to the point of manslaughter.. he is bringing the sexual health of all the OW's former lovers to your bed...putting you at risk of real harm... is that not dramatic.

It shows how powerful the whole affair magic is. This was not a good career move. In most companies bad judgement of this nature will put his advancement at risk. Buying into a situation, where you put your career, family, marriage, future financial stability and the health of your spouse in danger of ruin - says it all doesn't it. Nothing rational was going on in his head. It makes it easier in a way. It allows you to see that he really hasn't been himself.

I haven't looked at his posts but if he does not agree with the principles on this site why is he posting here? I'm confused. If he does agree with the program.. then it is a no brainer.. that he should end contact with the OW. On the plus side if he is posting. It means he is thinking and reading about other people's experiences with a very challenging dynamic. I think it is a positive.

Ultimately you have to decide for yourself what is best for you and your family. It would be even better if you could talk it through and decide together.

People get over this. There are success stories.

My prayers are with you both..

Cheers

PB

Thanks everyone on this site,

A new thread has been opened up on Recovery for me. My husand is "Stop the Drama" and of course I am "Soooohurt". You can see what my husband's point of veiw is and how unreasonable he is. Please give us your thoughts. I want someone to make him see my point of view. Knock some sense into him.

Thanks for all your help. It feels good to talk to people.

sooohurt,

I too and saddened by your news. Hang in there and be strong. If for no other reasaon your kids need you right now, they too are scared and nervous about what their life will become. I have gone out and read the H's posts and he sounds convinced that he can be in close contact with the OW and still remain in your marriage. Fog talk, maybe. I don't know him well enought to answer that. I do know two people I work with that had an A here and both are still here working in close proximity daily and are not involved anymore in any way. The problem is both are remarried to different spouses than they had duing their A.

I think in the MB materials I have read that one of the things a BS needs from a WS in a recovery is NC with the OW to give the BS a feeling of safety. A BS just can't feel safe in their M knowing that their spouse still sees the OW daily and anytime an arguement or problem occurs at home you fear the WH will turn immediately to the OW again. Proximity does breed these fears and emotions. Your H has put himself in a place where he has put all that he has worked for and achieved in jepardy. It is hard for him to give this up when he believes he is finished with the OW. He just does not realize yet how hard this is for you to live with or accept. Again I think you need to remain strong and express your fears and feelings to him in a non-threatening and non-demanding manner.

Remember he still may be in withdrawal and the thought of losing his family and his career at the same time would be too much to handle all at once. Right now all he has for sure is the career and he knows it. Time and compassion from both of you will be essential in resolving this and placing all your emphasis on NC right now may be counter-productive. Instead try to find the missing EN's and see if the two of you can fill those gaps for each other again. If you can again meet all of hs needs he may become strong enough in your M to make NC a priority himself. You are the key to this, in that you have to be the one that is committed and strong enough to live with the situation while working to improve the other areas first.

Hopefully your H will see that you are trying and you still have the same love for him as before the A. Your M will never be the same and that is good. Something needs to be changed to make it stronger than before and to become affair-proof. We will be here to listen and give our opinions and for you to vent on when needed. You can do this if its really what you want. You have to make that call not us. I for one would love to have this same chance again. My EXWW still works with the OM and is still with him. In my case she gave no statements or gave no signals that the A was over as your H has done. Take this as the opening you need and expand it as fast as you can.

paradise_blue..

I only recently discovered this board... and my situation is very different than what I have read of your's.

I am sorry that we are both here.

Your posts are some of the most eloquently written, heartfelt sentiments that I have ever read - in book or out.

I hope that someone as yourself would be friends with someone like me if our paths ever crossed.

God Bless you,

Eibrab

Peradise,

We have another fan in the paradise book club! Keep up the writing, you are building a fan base for your soon to be written best seller. Maybe a way to pay for some more sight-seeing huh?

Have a great weekend- off to chase those pesky ducks again with the now healed up Lab.

Hi Eibrab,

It is very nice to meet you. Thank you for your compliments. I think our paths just crossed.

I don't know your story. Would you like to share it?

I'm not sure what perspective I can offer but I am happy to lisen or read as is the case.

Long busy day, now its off to see Dad.

Cheers,

PB

Journal,

Too tired last night to write...

My scrabble buddy and I had dinner together last night, she came with me to visit Dad. She visited him regularly while I was away.

We drank Newcastle Brown Ale... Dad had one small juice glass full. It took a long time for him to get it down but he seemed to enjoy it. Tomorrow I will be bringing stout.. lots of calories in stout.

My friend sang gospels songs. I have known her 16 years and never heard her sing. She has a lovely voice. Apparently while I was away she would sit and sing to him. Drinking beer and singing gospel songs an odd mixture but it felt right.

Dad is gradually getting weaker... not standing these days at all. His nurse said .. they always know first when they are going to go. Dad kept telling me last night how he was going to miss me... likewise.

Mom is mad at him. She thinks he is giving up before he needs to. My parents are an interesting combo. They understand each other. I always love watching them figure things out together.. two silver heads close together... glasses slipping down noses...then the round of quick smiles .."Yes that is it .. we got it right". They really did get it right.

Good morning! Wow...so sorry sooohurt to hear your H is being as suborn as a bull, perhaps this is his coping skill for dealing with everything going on. He did it, it's over, yada yada, now you get over it...sorry, not so easy.
About your FIL, perhaps he's not aware that when you are a "mischief bull", you need to be led around by the ring in your nose! and possibly tied to the fence for awhile.

I spoke to my dear and special friend here on MB. We have been going through all this together for the past 11 months. She has told me that you are most welcome to ask her help as her H was the boss of the OW and only until now or as of Nov 4th (almost a year later) he has left his job for new one. Her user name is Godhelpme2. She has a kind spirit. I began posting here with MB under the title Newbies, now we continue under Old Newbie's Where are you in Just Found Out.

PB, I hope your Dad is comfortable. He sounds like an amazing man. I keep you and him in my prayers daily.

DH-hope you have great duck weather!

Still working hard on my holiday stock. Hubby still pounding away at the books. Say a little prayer for his big test on Monday. We are spending this weekend in Phx, AZ with his sister.

And I hope you all have a better weekend.

Peace,

holiday

Hi Holiday,

Thanks again. I will visualize only A's for your Hubby. Have a great visit in Phoenix - I love it there.

Cheers,

PB

Journal,

Another busy day... beach.. work...a business lunch..work now home. Staying in tonight to do a general clean and dust up. The WS is coming by tomorrow to pick up some of his things and a few pieces of furniture. He moves into his new place this weekend. It is uniquely female logic to want to have your house clean for someone to come and take your things away. I will pop up to see Dad in the morning and hopefully miss the denuding of my home.

At first the WS wanted to do his new place ultra modern - italian leather...minimalist. Now he seems to want to duplicate what we already have. He wants me to write down all the paint shades etc.. Very confused person I am dealing with.

I had an interesting conversation today with an old colleague. On how some people get into a mind set where being nasty makes sense to them. If your logic is pure - being nasty never makes sense. There is no advantage to be gained and it diminishes you. Although having the OW jog by me tonight (braless and in tight spandex) with a big smile - I can see it might at times have a small measure of appeal...

I still find it hard to believe he is doing this ... we had just way too much fun ...

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Speaking of fun.. my purpose here is to do a Halloween post. I have turned off all the lights, lit a candle, poured a Pilsner Urquell (great Czech beer) and I have spooky organ music booming out of the cd player (baroque organ recital in St. Vitus church in Cesky Krumlov) - sounds a bit like a Munsters theme song.

This is all in honour of a picture... what I think might actually be a ghost picture. Last week when I waited for the dawn at the castle in Cezky Krumlov... I was by myself for probably 30 to 40 minutes before two other keen souls ventured up to sit near me and await first light.

Overlooking a 500 foot drop, I sat in still quiet darkness on an old stone bridge..that was probably built some 700 years ago. (No ipod) I found it peaceful but there is a kind of a density of lives lived in that spot.

I thought about how many countless others over the centuries have done exactly the same thing albeit not with a digital camera in tow.

I took probably 9 or 10 pictures, it was crisp and cold, our breath hung in the air. The valley landscapes all came out crystal clear. The sky gradually turn from indigo to pink. Just after sunrise as I was walking back down towards the village I shot an old woman raking leaves.

When I downloaded my pictures.. I stared for a long time wondering...what @$$@%%.. You can see her blurred through what looks very much like a spectre.. white blobby thing. The rest of the picture is in perfect focus .. really odd. There was no mist. No fog. There was nothing to offer a reflection.. No imperfections in the film because it was digital... Just this rather cool casper character... The tour guide at the castle mentioned that there are several ghosts who haunt the place .

One was the lady in white who was cursed to roam by her husband when she refused to forgive him on his deathbed for maltreating her very badly throughout their marriage. He was a lout. That was five hundred years ago.. she must be really mad at him by now ...

My daugther is fascinated by pictures with "orbs" she calls them. She looks them up on the internet all the time. I took some pictures recently in our living room and there were orbs in a couple of spots. I looked at the lense it it was dirty! I told her, there's your ghost, a smudge on the camera lense. We laughed pretty hard about it.


I'm sorry you have to live in such close proximity to your H's OW. She has some nerve jogging by you like that, I bet the urge to trip her was hard to fight! (At least it would have been for me.) I think there are better things in store for you. You've got your head on straight while your H is off chasing some fantasy life. It may take time, but you will come out ahead. I'm confident of it.

Hi Familyomesfirst,

I thought I would share a link with you and that you and your daughter might enjoy. I emailed off my picture to this group after alittle research.

On their site they have a number of real or at least unexplained phenomena shots and ones where there appears to be an explanation...

If you believe Brian Greene - The Elegant Universe - that there are 7 dimensions that our perceptual equipment - eyes ears, nose, taste - cannot perceive but that we can prove mathematically - hey who knows?

Cheers,

PB

http://www.ghostresearch.org/ghostpics/