Hi There Toni49

Sorry you are having a bad day. Over time..it will get better. Eventually, your mind just gets tired of thinking about it.

Before you make a final decision I would read all the articles posted on this site and the Harley books. They are well worth reading. It sounds like you are not completely sure about what you want.

Starting a thread in the busier section on the General Questions board would be a good idea. Laying out your situation there would expose it to a wider audience, there are many very wise people on this site who devote alot of their time to giving imput. They don't always check the Just Found Out Section.. it is a low traffic area.

You are not alone. The pain you are going through will make you cry. There is no shame in crying.

I cried.. howled in fact at times. Didn't actually break anything .. but thought about it. This is an incredibly painful thing to go through. Turn to your friends, let them know you need their help.

Take care of yourself first and foremost. Dukhuntr's suggestion about the anti depressants is a good one.

You are in my prayers.

Paradise

Thanks Duk and PB for the encouraging words. Your right when you say there will be good days and bad days. I went to my support meeting yesterday 2/13/07 which was helpful talking with the other group members. PB as a said before I don't want the divorce but know I have to go through with it because my WH I've tried to trust him time and time again and each time he has lied to me. So how can I be married to him if I can't trust him. It takes to much energy to be suspicious all of the time and asking his whereabouts also. And anyways he hasn't tried to talk me out of the divorce so that also tells me he's find with what ever I want. But it would be nice to see on his part that he cared enough about the marriage that he would want us to try again. Also Happy Valentines Day to all.

Hey guys,

Had a weird lunch with a friend I thought was one of my best and oldest friends on Sunday. He came to town for an hour or two to pick up his Dad's old pickup and drive it home 8 hours away. He called and we had a quick lunch before he left. He and his 2nd wife were very close to my EX and I for many years. He suffered thru an A in his first marriage and we became very close during his recovery. I've known him since Little League and we played baseball and or softball together until he remarried and moved. I don't see him often now because of the distance but we still manage to talk often and get together once or twice a year to go to spring traing or go golfing somewhere.

While at lunch he announced that the EX had been to his home recently for dinner with the OM and OM's mother and proceeded to tell me how "nice" this clown was. He said his wife had asked to do this and he was surprised how nice this guy was. Forget the fact he's 17 years younger than the rest of them and broken up a family very similar to his own. How do you respond to this??? I was speachless. Is it just me or is something very wrong with this picture?

Hi Duk..

My heart goes out to you.. quite a shock, huh?

Almost a bit of betrayal all over again... both by the ex assuming it was ok to do this ( and we know we cannot control her ) and by your friend assuming it would be ok with you.

I suppose if you sit and really look at the situation, who did wrong ? The horrible slap of reality is.. no one really did. That hurts, I know.

I want SO much for others to know what has happened..to dislike the MOW in my life as much as I do.. but in fact, I cannot control them.

I hope and I know that you held your head high because YOU know the truth. You are the only one who matters to me here and I hope that you know how much I understand AND how much I care.

Eibrab

Now I need you all...

Tonight, though I never, ever look.. I did snoop through H's cell. I found a picture of the child with his older brother sitting on Santa's lap.

I am assuming it was sent to him and he was not there.

What do I do? Do I tell MOWH who has demanded NC ? I did send the pic to my phone..

I'm a bit lost...I am tired of being walked all over.

Eibrab

Eibrab,

Thanks for understanding, some people do get it. You are right in reminding me that in reality nobody did anything wrong. I just am not ready for old friends to accept the OM as my "replacement" with the EX. I knew it would eventually happen, just not with this friend knowing he had suffered thru an A and a divorce just like mine. If he could adapt and accept them as a couple everyone could. A definite shock to me. I think its time to go talk to the good doctor again and get a better handle on my thinking.

I hope you continue to snoop and yes you should be watchful. As for being upset about the picture, I would be too. On the other hand I can see H having a picture of his son as being a good thing too. It tells me he has a conscience and cares for a child he brought into this world. It was not the childs choice to arrive in the manner he did.

You have a delicate line to walk in life and I know it is a challenge every day. My only question for you is this- how would you feel if you knew your H was capable of ignoring his own son? I know this son is not yours but if he could ignore and abandon one couldn't he ignore and abandon all of his children? I know you could never respect or love a man that is capable of either. Give him the space and time to honor his responsibilities to this child as he can. Snoop and be vigilant, but let yourself give the other child a small space in that huge,warm,loving heart of yours too.

As for being walked all over I don't think their is a man in "Mayberry" capable of accomplishing that feat. I'm sure most by now respect you and admire you enough not to try anyway. I know I do.

duk

Duk..


I woke up this morning with you on my mind...

The friend came to see YOU while he was in town. Not the Ex or the OM.

I find comfort in that.

As far as the picture.. I have never been opposed to contact with this child, in fact I have pushed for it. The NC comes from MOW and MOWH..but does that mean she can do as she pleases and my H should be hiding it?

Why won't any players in this include me, do you think?

Eibrab

Morning Eibrab,

Why won't they include you? Probably because you are too much like me in that you wear your heart on your sleve and speak your mind honestly and openly. People with heavy hearts and guilt hate that. We remind them of their misdeeds and flaws.

I have spoken to my friend since we last talked and and I'd swear he knows you and has spoken to you. He called to tell me he does not respect or even like the OM or my EX anymore. He does love his wife and she is my EX's friend who does not condone or accept what she has done she just does not feel she can condem her. He said the same thing you did, if he's going to go play golf, hunt or go to baseball games he's going to call me and not the "clown". It sure made me feel better to hear him explain how he felt.

If I were to suggest anything to you it would be to closely watch everything that goes on between MOW and H and only confront H on the breaks in NC that do not involve the OC in any way. There are going to be grey areas but you have to start rebuilding trust between the two of you somewhere. Why not do it in favor of the OC? Snoop and find the things he is doing and then ask about the OC and see if the info you get matches what you have found. Catching him telling the truth will help you build on your trust. It will hopefully get him in the habit of sharing and talking to you a little more openly about what he's doing for the OC.

I have to admit I don't envy you in this one bit. It would be nerve wracking and emotionally draining to say the least. All I can say is he is a very lucky man to be married to someone with a heart as big as yours and the will to match.

duk

P.S.- Waking up with me on your mind? Must have been one he!! of a nightmare! What a way to start your day! I hope it gets better from there.

Hi Dukhuntr,

It is so hard letting go, particularly when it is forced upon you. I still believe the Harleys’ take on these kinds of situations is spot on …”that relationships started or based in deceit are not likely to stand the test of time”.

I would expect the OM to be both charming and likable, on many levels… probably a very nice guy. That does not negate that it was wrong for them to start their relationship with lies. That wrong stays on the table. It does not go away. Rather it blossoms into a new view of justifiable behavior that will register on a very deep level in both the OM’s and your wife’s outlook. Which means it can happen again, only this time … to one of them. Our actions and our thoughts make up who we are.

The best you can hope for, after all the pain and heartache… is that their being together will give them both a lasting happiness. At least then, there is some sense to it. I doubt that will be the case though. I think these kinds of situations just have a large measure of deep wired crazy. That once given into .. people expend a great deal of energy .. justifying.

I am glad your friend clarified his attitude but I would still politely tell him that you are moving on with your life and are not interested hearing subjective opinions on the merits of your ex-wife’s new lover. It serves no purpose and shows only a marked lack of tact.

Big Hug My Friend….

Paradise.


Hi Eibrab,

Yowser, that must have of hurt. I agree with you and Dukhuntr, the wrong lies not in your husband wanting to have a photo of his son, but in his not being open to telling you that it was sent, showing it to you and involving you in the appropriate response.

It seems he still does not understand where he needs to make changes in his behavior, namely in being totally honest… not withholding anything.

The OC does have a valid claim to a portion of his heart. The MOW does not. Anything that supports her thinking otherwise...is a grave mistake. When he accepts communication from her without telling you, then, it sends a message… back to the MOW… and it sends a message to you. Neither message is appropriate to a man wanting to make his marriage a success. Nor is it appropriate if he has any genuine respect for the MOW husband’s feelings.

In his shoes, I would have accepted the photo and after talking to you, texted back a message to the effect of “Thanks MOW and MOWH, both Eibrab and I are pleased to see that _____ is looking so well.”

Darling girl, you are in such a hard place. Thankfully you have the strength and grace to deal with it. Give the big, thick headed lug a whack upside the head!!!!!!

You are in my prayers

Paradise

Hi PB,

Just relaxing at home on a Friday night and wanted to thank you for once again putting the madness into some sort of perspective. I have seen and heard all about the new outlook the A has created. I just wish I could quit caring.

This A is senseless at the core just because they both have acknowledged "it is not a permanent thing". I think this is one of the many reasons I have had such a hard time dealing with this. No problems before the A to speak of, no signs it was going on until months into it, and no change in our relationship during the A. A dual life on her part with little to no conscience ever. Where did this "new woman" come from and where did the one I knew and loved for 28 years retreat to? What spawned this radical change? Will I ever know why, or better yet do I really want to know why?

Coming up on two years since D-day and still having some rough days every now and then. I yearn to be able to think about her and not feel the sense of loss that has haunted me these two years. I miss my friend and companion still. I used to be able to think of her and remember the way she smelled and felt to my touch. Those memories have faded and died and I miss them too. Most of all I miss her laughter and presence in our home. It has become just a house now. I still wonder how she could abandon Jaime and never even inquire about the dog she adored so much and spent 5yrs raising.

Someday I think the EX will have a moment in her life when her conscience is reborn. I hope for her she has grown enough in character to handle the clarity that comes with this reclaimed conscienceness.

duk

((( Eibrab )))

Bless you, dear. You have the strength of ten of us.

Regarding the picture you found, my feeling is that the lies and sneaking is the worst stab to my heart. The actual SF takes a back seat to the secrecy. If that makes sense. And - it only makes sense to those who have lived it.

Thank you Eibrab for teaching me about strength and dignity.

Thank you Duk for showing me that real men do exist.

Thank you Paradise for allowing me to feel the calm and peace once again.

Hello Ladies!

I have a scenario for you to think about and give me your opinion on. It goes like this:

A married woman with two preteen kids is still at home being the SAHM she has been for the last 13 years. She is very, very close with her parents and her brothers as well as being the model wife to her husband. She and her husband live a simple and frugal life because they believe it will be better for their kids than both of them working. Not that they miss anything or feel they need anything else in life because all the things they do with their kids seem to fill every moment of every day quite nicely.

One day her parents approach her and ask a big favor. They have overextended themselves and are in serious need of a loan. Since the daughter loves her parents and wants the best for them too she does the only thing she can, she gets a new credit card in her name and runs it to the limit helping her parents. She does this over and over again because it just never seems to be enough to get her parents back on their feet. She can't tell her husband now because the balances are so high she does not know how they can ever repay the amounts owed.

Soon she has to hide the many statements coming in as well as answer every phone call coming in to her home in fear that it will be another credit collector looking for a missed payment or overdraft amount on the cards. Her parents are not making the payments anymore like they told her they would. She begins to pad the grocery bill she shows her husband to cover the money she is sending to make the minimum payments so the calls will stop. Her parents plead poverty and wish they could help but they have spent every dime they have on her brothers. The brothers are either in jail or in rehab to avoid jail.

Soon her husband decides with the new salary a new job has given him he can afford to buy the first new vehicle he has ever purchased in their marriage. Upon applying for the loan he is shot down on his proudest moment when they inform him he has to do the loan in his name only, his wife was too far in debt to qualify for the loan. A huge marital spat insues whereupon the wife claims she doesn't know how she spent all of that money but she did. For the next 10 years the couple never do anything special for themselves or their children because thay have made a committment to pay off this debt. Again upon finally paying off the last card husband celebrates by attempting to buy his second new car in the marriage. Once again no joy in Mudville. Wife has run up another staggering amount (in fact her parents and brother this time). Husband is dispondent and totally discouraged this time and mentions divorce upon which wife says "you should divorce me".

Husband by now is 18 years into a lifetime committment and still has both children at home. He says "it could be worse, she could have a boyfriend". Forward 6 more years and the boyfriend does appear. Wife has had enough, her H brings up the credit cards every time she wants something and reminds her of what she could have if not for overspending in earlier years. Her parents get a large sum of money from a relative and spend it on everything but repayment to her. It seems she has no one to talk to because she certainly can't talk to her H about all of the things she has hidden and kept secret about her family for all these years.

Her parents have alienated most of their lifelong friends by doing the same things to them in an effort to keep their sons out of jail. She tells her H these people have become "bad" people in an effort to keep him from finding out the truth of what is happening to her parents. She does the same thing to others who have been victomized by her brothers thievery. Again to keep her husband in the dark about her family.

About this time a nice young man at work begins to pay attention to her moods and inquires about her worries. She begins to confide in him even though he is only a few years older than her own daughter. Soon she has told him the entire story that not even her husband knows and he continues to listen and offer her his support and encouragement. After a short time their daily lunches together become more and she enjoys the release and freedom this young man offers. She can escape the stress and emotions put on her by her H and her parents when she is with him.

For eight months the fantasy is alive and thriving, then she gets greedy and tries to make a whole weekend away with the young man a reality. It backfires and they are discovered by her H. From here she weighs the alternatives in front of her. First, the pain and anguish of trying to rebuild her life with her husband. Couple that with the demands of her parents for more money and she says "no way". It would be better for me and for my husband if I went down the road this young man offers and end both my parents supply of funding and the pain and guilt I get from my husband.


I have run into several lifelong friends of the EX and her family in the last few days and each of them has chosen to tell me very sad and sordid tales about my former in laws. They are as bad if not worse than their sons in terms of honesty and integrity. They have burned so many bridges with so many old friends they used to have it no longer leaves a doubt in my mind as to why my EX made the choices she did. I think she did my kids and I a favor by putting some distance between us and the rest of her family. I even think she knew this was a good thing after making a "mistake" with the co-worker. For the first time in two years I have given her credit for making the right decision in letting our marriage end. Maybe now I can let go of some of my obsessive thoughts and let myself move on to the rest of my life.

I'm hoping this made some sense and seems reasonable to all of you. You are much wiser than I am and definitely more detached. Please be honest and don't hold back on your opinions, I am actually feeling content and strong in my new single life these days.

((( duk )))

I seemed to sense a lack of emotion both in the telling of the story and in the marriage itself.

Am I correct ?


Bless you, carnation

Hi Carnation,

Yes I think I have finally run the full gammut on my emotions and don't have much left when it comes to the EX. I still struggle with the "why" and my part in the "why" of the A. As for my marriage, it was a part of my life that was full of emotion, love, tenderness, laughter, and caring. I think the way my children turned out shows that it was a nuturing home and one filled with all the right ingredients to endure for a lifetime. Something changed for her and what we had was not enough anymore and that certain thing or things are what creates my anxiety or whatever you want to call it. I didn't see or feel these same things until she and the OM "woke me up". I certainly did not have a relationship with her that allowed her to be open and honest with me or with our children. I think from the detached and unemotional tone in my post you can sense I have finally given up on there ever being any reconciliation between us.

My question to all of you would be to look at her side of this tell me if you see what I do. A person who is tired of struggling to balance her sense of loyalty to her husband, her love for her parents, and her inner demons created by having to hide all of the stuff her family was creating. I don't even understand why she felt she had to hide all of this, I knew her brothers were lost causes ages ago. I had doubts about her father for a long time and she knew this. Her father had never been one to hold the same job for more than a couple years from the time I met my EX. He went thru a long unemployed period right when all of the credit cards appeared.

So she opened up to someone else instead of me and the A was on. Now she chooses to "move on" rather than work on a marriage that has been special for 24 years. Is she trying to be noble in this and protect the kids and I from more of the same. Or is there more out there that has not yet come to light that has convinced her we could never recover? I just can't fathom even after two years why she chose not to expend any effort whatsoever on a marriage that had been a so good for both of us for so long. My only conclusion at this point is that there are other things out there weighing in on her decisions that I will never know about. She just doesn't want to confront all that has gone on and face the challenge of repairing all the damage.

Once again it's just me trying to put some logic to what is not logical. A CPA's mind is not a pretty thing when it comes to emotional issues.

Duk..

Wow.. I sit here just stumped and thinking. Have us ladies rubbed off on you to such an extent that you, too, are now thinking of every possible scenario, when, in fact.. we have no idea what's really going on?

Quick! Go do something manly !

I know that you'd like to think your XW could have possibly been noble in all of this. I truly think that may be a bit too complimentary of a word.. BUT, I sympathize. We want so much to think the best of those we love. Let's face it, you will always love your XW as a special part of your life.

If it helps to think she may have been a tad bit noble in her thought process here, then what harm is done? She was obviously a good woman for you to have been with her for so long..

I think Carnation pegged this correctly. It was a story told without emotion..and that has got to be healing.

Why does it take so long for this pain to fade?

I ask myself every day.

I am so proud of you, my friend..for looking for the good within the mother of your children for your sake and that of your children.

You are a man among men.

And I adore you.


Eibrab

Thank you Carnation ! You have no idea how much I needed your hugs today.

Today is the 5th day of silence from my H.. a 180 of sorts.

We attended a fund-raiser last weekend that MOW and her H were also at. I held my head high. I made it through. I was proud of myself.

H and MOW served on the same committee running this deal. I tend to think she bullied her way in, however, he stayed and worked.

He swears they do not "speak"..

Since I felt my gesture of such dignity was worth something... and you may giggle with me here as I will understand.. I approached him with my feelings.

Mind you..we do not discuss any of this.. it is NOT permitted... he remained sane for one day..seemed to have forgotten my little chat, and then let lose.

Did you all know that I am the reason for even global warming at this time? He does not love me, nor even like me..and I mess up everything... I even walked out the door and spent the night in my truck.. he never came looking for me or called... he has not said a word.

I am amazingly strong in this and have become insensitive to his insults... alas, day 5 and I have not buckled in tears asking for forgiveness for my part in world hunger, poverty-stricken nations and the Cleveland Indians never winning a game.

How can a man be so mean and then act as if he's done nothing wrong?

Eibrab

Wow... Lots to think about in these last several posts.. going to go for a long run and ponder. then make some coffee and ponder some more ..Big hugs to all ...

((( Eibrab )))

honey, you know it is not you he is mad at... something or someone is bothering him...

Same sitch in our house... we do not discuss the A at all... I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot and I had been the one to have an A.. would he bring it up then ?? probably...

Have you checked all your normal avenues for NC ??

Bless you - car

Eibrab,

So your the cause of all this warm weather huh??? You must be much more than just the kind, loving, thoughtful woman I gave you credit for. Even you could not help the Indians though. They haven't won since before you were born and won't for a long time to come. Even the village idiot knows that.

Humor is one of the best ways to deal with adversity sometimes and yours is coming back to life. Just please do not use it yet on the H. A confident woman using her wit and humor on a man with some crosses to bear is like lighting a match while soaked in gas. It would be too much for him to handle.

Let him hide for a while longer behind his wall of denial and let him open the door thru the wall on his own. Don't go and blow holes in it before he can take the pressure. I know it would probably be easier and less painful for you to just pack it in and give up, but is that what you really want?

Thank you for politely telling me to go find my mansuit and start acting like one again. I needed it. I have to give up trying to figure this out. She made a choice and she is making it work for her. Time to let the past go and start looking forward for the duk.

PS- Since you seem to be blessed with these special powers now I need help with my fantasy baseball draft. Got any sleeper picks for a big homerun year??????

Duk..

Do I act as if his behavior does not bother me ? Act happy? Act sad? What does this man want?

I have simply reached my limit in dealing with this.. He treats me well as long as I do not ask for anything, ask about anything or just simply want to "talk"..

There has got to be more to life than this.. even the kids see it. He told me recently that I set a bad example for my kids, because I let them see how he treats me. I replied. why don't you show them how to treat a partner?

His answer .... because I don't have to.

Now..although my powers are grand..I can really only help you with pitching.

You know that the Yankees brought Andy back, right?

Thank you, my friend.

Eibrab