Now that I'm back, my H is regressing back to his same, old self. Many have asked why I decided to turn around. I have to the say the #1 reason was because I saw all these wonderful, amazing changes that my H was making to improve himself. Initially, I thought he was making them just to lure me back, but, after a while, I truly felt that he was making those changes for himself. That's when he really turned my head.

Well, now that it's been 3 months since R, I see more and more of the old habits that drove me away in the first place. He's back to his computer games. He's back to lying about his pornography usage and addiction. He's back to obsessing about his job and spending crazy hours on his work - night and day. He's regressed back to being his negative, impatient, anti-social self that just wants to stay at home and do nothing. He's gained back nearly 20 pounds in 3 months. He’s not asked me on a date for nearly 6 weeks, and everything we've done, it’s like pulling teeth. Because he’s so consumed by his job, I've had to take care of everything (again) ... housekeeping (now for 2 houses), taking care of the dog, errands, selling his house, renting out my townhouse, designing the new condo and all related financing. (BTW - I also have a full-time executive job.) And, even though he says he'd be happy to go to IC, he always has an excuse of why he won't call to schedule the appointment. And, if I scheduled the appointment, he gets upset and finds an excuse of why not to go.

I just don't know what to do! In a way, I feel cheated! This is NOT what I came back for! Granted, many will probably throw my A back in my face and say I’m getting what I dished out. OK, if all there is in a M is keeping score versus moving forward, then count me out! I lived 8 out of 12 years of my M like a nun and a doormat, and I refuse to spend another moment feeling that way! I know what I did was exceedingly wrong, but I also believe there’s more to life than being neglected and taken for granted.

As an example of what transpired this week ... my H went with a couple of friends (female) to Indianapolis for a 5-day weekend. He asked me to drive up for the weekend. We had a wonderful time together Saturday. At the end of the night, we had a couple of martinis, made out in a dark corner of the martini bar and stumbled like college kids back to our hotel. When I curled up in bed and waited for him, he turned on all the lights, opened up his computer and started responding to his work email. I got so tired of waiting, I fell asleep. The next day, we awoke, and I nudged him about the night prior and asked if he was still "using" porn. He became defensive and belligerent. Said that he felt overwhelmed by all the MB stuff and our recovery and don't want to work on us any more. I thought "OK, after all that we've gone through, this is how it's going to end."

After we returned home, he came around and apologized for his behavior. He admitted that he didn't mean what he said and that he really does want to work on our M. He also suggested that we sit down on a weekly basis and write down what improvements we individually will make for the following week to better our M and then we'll review our progress. I thought it was a great idea. Then, the work week began. Nada. No list. No discussions. Just back to working around the clock, complaining incessantly about his job and not giving me the time of day …

He had a hard day at work on Monday. I took him to his favorite restaurant, let him vent on me for 3 straight hours, tried to cheer him up. I stayed overnight to comfort him (we’re still separated). He got up at midnight and worked until dawn.

It’s now Wed. I’ve not seen him since Mon, so I picked him up for lunch. He spent 30 minutes with me, and I dropped him off. He called me at 5 p.m. Says he’s too tired and just wants to go home and go to bed. Knowing I have group therapy on Thursday nights (tomorrow night), we won’t see each other until Friday night, when we’re scheduled to have dinner with another couple.

Somebody, PLEASE tell me what to do here!!! I know he’s not trying to punish me because these are the exact, same things he did well before the A! I’m now so afraid of moving back in together b/c then I’ll be “stuck” again. I just want back the H that I saw (or thought I saw) for the past 1.5 years! I was so excited in thinking that for the first time we BOTH actually want to work on our M, but I guess I’m wrong. If my A doesn’t motivate us to change our old ways, what will??? I’m so lost … and so very, very sad.

*Note: I’ve been reluctant to post this b/c I didn’t want to discourage any WS who is looking for hope. But, I feel like I’m at the end of my rope, and it’s already frayed.

Please help.

Whisper,

I wish I had some wise advice for you. As you know I am not anywhere near recovery but I just wanted you to know I am thinking about you and will pray for you and your H tonite.

You have been very helpful to me in your posts in understanding the WS side and it means alot to me. May god be with you both and help you through this time ... (((((hugzzzz))))))

I don't have much advice but I wanted to offer some support. Your perspective as a FWS has been valuable here on the board. I am sorry your recovery is difficult but at least now you have some tools to help deal with it. These behaviors that are creeping in need to be dealt with. Deal with the issues...what are you doing to enable? You said you felt burdened by all you are doing and he is not doing he is share. Stop. What are your boundaries? If you are still separated take this opportunity. Don't let this slide and accept it as punishment for A, sure that needs to be addressed but it doesn't mean you don't have legitimate concerns.

Whisper,

We all have a tendency to throw out cliches with aplomb(usually against the opposite sex), but perhaps you are dealing with a male that can not or will not communicate effectively. By the tone and structure of your post you are obviously a very intelligent and polished female. Has he ever made even an obtuse reference to your job and that it may feed a subconcious insecurity? We guys can be pretty touchy about things that don't even cross the female mind. If that is the case, an argument can be made that the sexual, work and pornography issues is a diversion for his bruised psyche.

Maybe just some psychobabble but an idea that came to me.

My hopes and prayers go with you in your attempt to save your M.

Thank you both, Hurting and Confused.

Question - How does one "deal with the issues"? When I bring up topics like porn and gaming addictions, he gets defensive or he simply lies about it. And, I do realize that I may be enabling these behaviors, but I guess I'm just trying to overcompensate for what I've done and am hoping that these issues will work themselves out in time. He did just start his new job 4 months ago. I'm hoping that it'll settle down after a while. Should I just be patient?

While I know what my boundaries are, he just really doesn't want to hear it. He'll say things like "if I don't change immediately, then you'll just run off with some other guy" - even though I NEVER, EVER made such a threat since R.

Also, what do I do when he just lets his share of responsibilities fall? For example, he hired a realtor to sell our house based on the 1st realtor post card he received in the mail. Unfortunately, this is the 1st house this realtor has ever listed, so he doesn't know what to do. If we don't have this house sold by end of October and have my townhouse rented out, we'll be stuck with 3 mortgages! Also, he stopped paying his bills. If they run late, our credit will suffer. What do I do in this situation?

I guess these are the questions I should've asked well before my A, but I just didn't see the forest for the trees.

Cymanca,

I think you have a very good insight into my H's psyche here. If your theory is, indeed, accurate, what's the solution? Note: My H is also a highly compensated executive. Although he's struggled with weight issues, he's still handsome, witty and exceedingly charismatic. I know he wrestled with self esteem issues and situational depression (when he lost his job 4 years ago), but he's since recovered and seems to be quite confident. How does one regain self confidence if he's not willing to see an IC nor read/apply self-help books?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.

Here are my suggestions:

1. U read His Needs/Her Needs, then leave the book lying around. U both need to know how to do normal communication with the opposite gender. C/b an eye opener.

2. U read Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobosn.

re: Seems like he knows how to pull your strings. In his mind as long as he apologizes, he can do it again with a clean slate.

You need to identify your boundaries and enforce them. With both of you in high level type jobs, c/b part of your personalities spilling over into your R.

Call Steve for some advise.

JMHO,
L.

Whisper,

I am sorry but I just don't know how you can make anyone get therapy if they don't want to. If I did, do you think I would be on this site right now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I am also a BIG Dr James Dobson fan and would echo Orchid's remarks

Whisper - I have no solid advice. But I have incredible grattitude. You represent to me the hope that all of us BSs have!

You have chosen to go home. My prayer is "God, please bring her home". You show us that it happens. I praise God for you!!! I praise God that you are willing to share here, candidly - your life and struggles.

I will pray that your H has a serious wake-up call. If only my WW had taken a 2x4 to my head before spiritually divorcing me. She did not. She cried - she made statements - but I was too dense. I needed a 2x4.

What can your 2x4 be for him? Is he a follower of Christ?
(just thinking you might be able to give him some data about porn that will get him thinking.)

Hey all - what is her 2x4???

My prayers for you, Whisper.

Thank you for providing hope.

far

Hi, whisper.

I have a question for you. How often do you find you 'need' your husband. I don't mean sex, I mean how often are you a bit dependent on him?

Gimble

(((Whisper)))

I'm sorry to hear about your current circumstances. You have made such wonderful progress since you’ve started posting here and you're of so much help to others too. You deserve the best and I really hope you and your H will be able to resolve this situation.

I don't have any advice for you, but I just want you to know that I'm thinking of you and will keep you and your H in my prayers… May God bless you and give you strength, hope, courage and wisdom during this difficult time.

Take care,
Suzet

Oh Whisper - its almost your worst fear realised and I am sorry.

Your husband's addictions are marriage problems that predate your affair. It is to your credit that you will not accept such disrspectful husbandry as a reckoning on your affair. It is clear that yoru affair is only one of the things you two need to resolve to grow your marriage back to health.

From my viewpoint as a recovering BS I see many of BOTH Squids an my behaviours as having 'manured' the soil which allowed the poisonous weed of an affair to grow. Sure, Squid planted it and grew it but our pre-A behaviours surely both manured the soil.

Our recovery has depended on us both identifying how we were not contributing properly to our marriage and setting it right, not just dealing with Squids affair. I would go so far as to say that RECOVERY has much more to do with fixing what was wrong before the affair, while HEALING is getting over the consequences of the affair.

In my own situation and in almost every other I have read, recovery starts with ONE spouse getting a grip and investing unequally in fixing their contribution to their marriage.

In my case this started with me investing in ME: realising my OWN self worth and remaking myself as worthy individual, independent of my roles as husband, father, friened , employee etc etc.

Whisper, that might be harder for you, because you had an affair and I have seen in Squid and in your posts how ashamed and remorseful that makes you.

But there is much to admire in you. If me, a stranger can see that, it is your DUTY to be able to do that yourself. I se seeds of self worth in your posts anyway which is again to your credit.

You may, like me, arrive at a place where you WANT your H in a recovered marriage but you don't NEED that in order to function.

This removed a while shroud of fear and needfulness from my communication with Squid.

I was able to negotiate our recovery with squid without overly fearing a negative outcome. It has worked wonderfully for both of us.

I am not advocating you become arrogant or demanding Whisper. Just that you realise your own self worth and your existence as an independent person away from your marriage.

Then you may have confidence in saying :

" H I love you and I want to recover a great marriage with you. Lets discuss about what I need to do to help you heal from my affair AND to improve on my pre-A contribution to our marriage and your life.

Then we can discuss how you feel about YOUR actions towards your healing from my affair and your contributions to our marriage.

It was MY affair, and inexusable. Our unulfilling marriage though was both our responsibility, so you agree ?

I can't force you to build a wonderful marriage with me but i want to with all my heart. Lets discuss the hard stuff".

Starts with you losing your fear and shame Whisper. You can't change your H, you can only inspire him to change.

I hope that makes some sense.

All blessings

Whisper28 – Can I be a “thorn in your side for a minute?” It’s not to beat up on you or to be cruel, but to hopefully get you to think about a some things.

An affair of 1.5 years and 4-5 months into recovery. I would have thought that you would have reached “recovered” a couple of months ago.

With respect to the quotation, you don’t have to make “such a threat since R.” You already made that threat and carried it out (the affair), so your husband KNOWS that his statement is true. ONLY you can change the “truth” of that statement and only by consistent behavior OVER time, so that when your marriage reaches “recovered” your new truth will be that you will never engage in adultery again, no matter what the marital circumstances might be (of course they’ll be much better by then anyway).

Recovery takes an AVERAGE of TWO years, not a few months. Recovery is very much like a “Roller Coaster” with ups and downs and twists and turns. Recovery often is described as “two steps forward and one step backward” as we seek to recover from the devastation of infidelity. You BOTH need to be committed to the long haul, to the patience and fortitude needed to make it through the process.

Now, lest you think I am going to let your husband “off the hook,” let me assure you that I am not.

Your husband is an executive. Good. That gives us some “common ground” for communication. Whisper, recovering your marriage is going to be all about personal changes for BOTH of you, and your husband is NOT excluded. He is commanded by God to love you, while you are commanded to respect and obey him so long as he is leading the family in obedience to God. It is the God-commanded responsibility to HUSBANDS to see to it that there is love in their marriages. If that upsets your husband, all I can say is that it is God’s command, not mine. One of the “joys” of being male, if he wants to look at it that way.

So, where does that leave us? You need to understand that he’s not likely to respond to emotional appeals at this point. What you need to do is to talk to him LOGICALLY.

He is an executive. He knows that the ONLY way to affect change is to MAKE change. The only way to get “answers” when you don’t already have the answers is to seek out experts in the field and get them to teach you. ASSUMING that you both WANT to remain married, then it is time to “call in the experts.” Change in both of you is necessary. Neither of you can continue doing things the same old way and expect a different result (a better, newer, more loving, marriage).

Whisper, right now your husband is running, hiding and procrastinating in the things that give him easy pleasure and peace. Some things that he is “used to doing,” like Pornography, can kill a marriage even without the added problem of infidelity. So that habit is going to have to be replaced with something that is beneficial, not harmful, to the marriage. Right now he is probably “justifying” pornographic usage along the lines of he is “entitled” to it since you were “entitled” to have an affair….it’s a “revenge” sort of thing. CHANGE is hard and disrupting until it becomes the “new habit.” So with just the two of you, WHY would there be any reason to do things differently? The reason is because there WAS an affair as a result of doing the “same old, same old” things and that you have BOTH decided, for whatever individual reasons, that you want to remain married and attempt to resurrect your marriage. It is time for Joint Marital Counseling. It is time for an “outside expert” to guide you and hold you both accountable for making needed changes that will benefit you individually and in your marriage to each other.

So how about talking with your husband about these things? Counseling is NOT optional. It is mandatory. Commitment to positive personal change is not optional, it is mandatory for the self and for the marriage. Commitment to TIME, years if needed, is not optional, it is mandatory. Patience is not optional, it is mandatory. Love, sacrificial love, from a posture of “servant-hood” toward each other is not optional, it is mandatory.

There are many things you two can do help your marriage, but BEGIN with Joint Marital Counseling with a trained counselor who is committed to saving marriages.

God bless.

Hi...I kind of see it as the way I (the BS) am dealing with my WH in a way. He refuses to go to counseling, my counselor said that even if he won't go, he really is in counseling because I am in counseling. He described it as a "mobile" effect. If you pull on one part of the mobile, all the parts move with it.

So, as I change, my H isn't able to relate to me in the same way any more. But as the mobile does, that one piece that got pulled is going to try to pull also to bring back the 'balance' but the balance was unhealthy.

I agree, this sounds like more boundary work. Its the hardest thing but take it one day or even one hour at a time.

here's a link to help explain boundaries. I read it over and over to 'get' the idea that I can do what I need to do and I can let go of the outcome (decisions of my spouse)

http://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm

Hi Whisp,

So sorry you are at this point. I know it's so tough. 3 months into recovery with H with SO many positive changes...and my H started to regress too, and by 4 months he pulled away, and by 6 months he had an A and left....and by 7 months we started recovery again.

It's so tough as the WS, as you want to enforce boundaries, but at the same time, you are the WS, and enforcing boundaries can be taken as a selfish WS still in the fog....it's such a hard balance, and I am sure you are feeling that balance. The worst is the fear, the fear in yourself, not him.

You see things going back to the way they were and you don't yet trust yourself and all the changes you made and are terrified you will end up resentful again, entitlistic again and eventually wayward again, and so your H's actions terrify you as you are not ready for this test!

I am a firm believer changes don't take place very fast, and that we are all bound to fail along the way - God made us that way. Could it be that your H is going through some rough times and feeling like not trying right now? I know there are alot of BS's here that hit that point, where they are sick of trying and just need a breather.

How is your communication going? Are you still communicating with him like you used to? Could it be you are using old communication techniques that are making him react impatient? Have you voiced your needs. Obviously his job coming before everything else is not what you want...you want your family (you and him) to come first - does he really know this? Have you reminded him in a non LB way of this need?

I wonder if the porn, games, obsessing with his job, etc coming back now is because he has let himself finally feel what he has been avoiding feeling for awhile. He has been so much in Plan A or PLan B with you, maybe he smothered those feelings, as what he is doing sounds like he is escaping and not properly handling his feelings.

It sucks as when someone is doing that - there isn't much you can do - they have to be willing to get help - like cymanca said - you can't force someone to get help.

I know you feel cheated, and I am in no way going to say that you should go back to a marriage like this, but reality is Whisper - its been 3months, and it's been a GOOD 3 months....BS's here warn that there are lulls at 6 months, 1 year things like that - that it is a constant uphill battle for up to two years or more. You need to have some patience. It could be H is scared that you haven't really changed...

I believe that one person should take leadership (if not both) and start the changes...eventually the other sees the changes, and starts to change too. The other also changes without realizing they are too because of new interactions with the one who is changing. Learn new skills, communications skills, and hang in there - it's not a fast road. As much as we all want our husbands to change overnight - its not gonna happen.

My H hasn't changed much at all yet...but I do see small changes and I keep learning new ways to work with his personality, new changes I keep making, and every day due to my changes, things change for him....he has less escapes now, less negativity - because he sees the changes in me, and I am not giving him reasons to escape. My communication sucked and put up walls around him all the time....I changed and those walls don't come up.

I know how terrifying it is right now Whisp - that you are terrified things wont change....that things will suck forever....it's been 3 months - hang in there sweety...recovery has to be at his speed and on his terms. It sucks for the WS, as we are all gung ho, but give him some time to work out his feelings...recovery isn't probably what he imagined it would be either, and its scaring him, and I bet he's wondering if it's worth the risk...

(((HUGS))))

Whisper, reading this thread so far reminded me of a weeks programing on Family Life today about sexual addiction and false intimacy. Check out the links.
false intimacy book False Intimacy by Harry Schaumberg

Thank you all for responding so quickly – Don’t know what I’d do if I’ve never found you!!!


Orchid – We both read HNHN when I was still in my A. I reread it post-A with my “new set of eyes.” I’ve since completed every MB questionnaire and have been asking my H to do the same. He’s been promising to do so for weeks. Again, he promised to have them completed by Sunday. I guess I’m somewhat pessimistic about it, but we’ll see.

“Seems like he knows how to pull your strings. In his mind as long as he apologizes, he can do it again with a clean slate.”

>This has been the case for years. We would fight. He would “be good” for a couple of weeks then be back to his old ways. For nearly 2 years pre-A, I simply gave up fighting altogether and just relegated myself to living like this … until I finally walked out.

The challenge w/ “identifying my boundaries” is he’d get defensive – stating that he’s just too busy w/ work. How do you ID your boundaries and not LB?


Cymanca – I will get Dobson’s book. I’ve been reading so many self-help books lately that I’m just trying to focus on a couple – HNHN & Sense Ability. HNHN helps me understand and work on our M while Sense Ability helps me understand and work on me (i.e. anger, control, depression, etc.)


FAR – Thank you, but I don’t feel I deserve your compliments. This is also the reason why I’ve not posted as frequently in the last month or so. I just don’t feel like I’m one to give any M advice when my own M is so shaky. I was hoping that the A would be the 2X4 wake-up call for both of us. I guess it’s not enough??


Gimble – “How often do you find you 'need' your husband.”

>Pre-A, I used to be very dependent and needy. I “needed” him or somebody with me all the time. Now having lived on my own for a while and discovered new friends and hobbies, I find I don’t really need him per se, but rather I would like to see and be with him. Plus, a big part of me feels that we can’t truly work on our M if we’re apart. And, when we’re together, it’s primarily focused on running errands, discussing work problems versus going out & having fun like we were the 1st month of recovery.

What happens lately is we’d plan on doing something – even if it’s just to have dinner or “hang out.” But, at the last minute, he would tell me he’s too tired or busy w/ work. In fact, this exact thing happened last night. He said he just wants to sleep, although he called me at 10:30 to let me know he’s been on the phone w/ his friends & family since 8.


Suzet – I teared up when I saw your & Bob’s response this morning. I feel like after all that you two have done to help me through my A, I still can’t get it together. I feel like such a failure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for your continued friendship and support.


BobPure – I hate to admit this, but when I read your post the other day on how you feel like you’ve won, I was just green with envy. While I’m so happy for you and Squid, I can’t help but think about how my H doesn’t see what strides we’ve made and how good things could be if we’re BOTH willing to work at it.

“In my own situation and in almost every other I have read, recovery starts with ONE spouse getting a grip and investing unequally in fixing their contribution to their marriage.”

> I know I’m no peach to live with either, but I feel like I’m always the only one doing everything and getting nothing in return. Now, I’m just discouraged, resentful and pessimistic. I know our long & ugly history does’t help. If I could only erase all the bad memories, I wouldn’t be telling myself … “well, this is just the same old, garbage.” Or “He’s never going to change.”

“Lets discuss about what I need to do to help you heal from my affair AND to improve on my pre-A contribution to our marriage and your life.”

>I agree with this whole-heartedly. The hard part is I just can’t figure out in what ways did my A wound my H. B/c he refuses to talk about it and keeps telling me that he’s OK and has moved past the A, I don’t know what I need to do to help him heal. I’ve read many of your posts, and they’ve helped me to understand how my H may be feeling/thinking, but I feel like I’m still shooting in the dark. For example, in one of your earlier posts, you said you had wished Squid would just show some sign of remorse. Well, I do. I verbally apologize for my actions all the time. Maybe something that would help me is to know exactly how a BS feels and thinks once a WS truly comes back. Is it fear? Relief? Happiness? Excitement? Vengefulness? Arrogance? Self-righteousness? Entitlement?

“You can't change your H, you can only inspire him to change.”

>Does inspiring him to change simply mean that I should just keep on improving even though I don’t see any responses? If so, how long should I wait? Two years or longer like what everyone says? I’ve already endured this for so many years, I don’t think I can do it for 2 more years! What can/should I really expect??


FH – My H went to MC w/ me once and saw the same MC on his own once. Since then, he’s found all kinds of excuses of why he can’t call nor go, even if I scheduled the appointment. He, again, told me that he will schedule an appointment this week, so I guess I’ll just have to wait and see … and hope that it does happen. BTW – I’ve been seeing the same MC for 4+ months now. She’s amazing! She’s helped me make a decision, put an end to the A, face my fears, rebuild my self esteem and is now supporting me through recovery to include changing my bad habits and behaviors – which there are too many to count, so I’m working on a few at a time. Again, I’m just hoping that he’ll call her.


WAG - Thank you. Great article. I will re-read it to make sure everything sinks in. I wasn’t very good at communicating my boundaries before. In the past, I would let them slide and let my H’s needs come before mine b/c I thought that was the “loving” thing to do. I allowed myself to become a doormat. Question – when do our “boudaries” become “selfish needs”? And, if my needs are indeed healthy “boundaries,” how do I communicate them without LBing?


Dorry – I was hoping I’d hear from you. And, WOW! Did your words hit home!

“You see things going back to the way they were and you don't yet trust yourself and all the changes you made and are terrified you will end up resentful again, entitlistic again and eventually wayward again, and so your H's actions terrify you as you are not ready for this test!”

>The only change I would make to the above statement is that I was so conflicted and in so much pain when I was in the A that I can’t even bring myself to think of possibly engaging in another. With this, my greatest fear is for my H and me to return to the way things were … with my losing my sense of self, having no self esteem, feeling like a doormat with no hope for a happy future. I just can’t live like that any more.

“Could it be that your H is going through some rough times and feeling like not trying right now? I know there are alot of BS's here that hit that point, where they are sick of trying and just need a breather.”

>Very possible. What should I do if this is the case? Just wait and hope?

“you want your family (you and him) to come first - does he really know this? Have you reminded him in a non LB way of this need?”

>I guess I don’t know how to remind him without LBing. It just seems like any time I bring up recovery, he just gets so defensive and wants to change the subject. Or, he’ll say “yes, I want to do that” and doesn’t follow through. Any suggestions here would be GREATLY appreciated! I don’t want to be critical, but I also don’t want to get back to that point. Yes, I so want that balance, but don’t know how to achieve it.

“It could be H is scared that you haven't really changed...”

>I show him my call logs, my emails. I always tell him where I am or where I’m going. I try to give him reassurances. I would apologize if something came up that may remind him of the A. What else can I do?

“My communication sucked and put up walls around him all the time....I changed and those walls don't come up.”

>How did your comm change? Where did you learn to do this?

BTW – thank you … for being there and looking out for me since Day 1.


FF – Thanks. Am reading …

I felt like a doormat again for the first little bit of recovery as H was healing. He didn't do a good job of no LB's, etc. but I was bound and determined to stick it through until he healed. I continued to work on myself, and find other things that helped me with my sense of self and my self esteem - like a woman's group at the church, finding hobbies I enjoyed - anything but relying on men for my sense of self again. I often reacted emotionally to H's treatment of me which made things worse. I tried to give him his space, but instead came across needy and smothered him, as I wanted to talk about changes, and the relationship alot, and all he wanted was to heal.

Your H's porn addiction must be addressed, and he will have to answer to alot of his escapes, but I believe right now he is escaping as everything has caught up with him and he realizes alot of his pain is still there, even though you guys were seperated for awhile and he seemed to be doing better, it was without you being around to remind him of where things are at.

On how to approach him about his porn, I am not sure...I think others have good advice for that. As for his space. Continue to change, continue to build trust - it takes alot of time. It's frustrating as you know the changes you make, and desperately want others to see those changes, but sometimes it takes a bit for people to notice and trust the changes, and not that you are just trying to please them to make them forget. keep it up and hang in there. meanwhile find activites and things that make you feel good to help you with your self worth etc.



Definately wait and hope. I call this the WS's plan A of sorts. Continue to meet his needs as much as he will let you - continue to change and work on yourself. Don't push talk about the R unless he brings it up, and talk about his day, normal day to day things when he is up for it. Don't push time together, but try to get him to spend time with you by renting movies, maybe playing a game online with him, any that is appealing with no strings attached - quality time. There are ways to work with his escapes until he can give those up. Right now he may not be working on himself as he doesn't know how too since he isn't in IC or visiting MB. these are things I had to learn with my H as well as he wouldn't see a MC and stopped coming here early in recovery.



I don't know how to bring that up without LB as I mentioned above. But maybe when it seems he is heading towards his computer, try to suggest something you can do together. If he has certain fantasies - perhaps if he will talk about them, re-enact them in the bedroom? This is a big thing for him to change if he is addicted and I think it might require professional help. Perhaps continue to encourage him to go to MC or IC? I will leave this one to other people to answer as I am just not experienced in this area and don't want to give poor advice.



You are doing all the right things, but it takes alot of time. Time that he knows it isn't just an act and can let himself believe that your actions are real, and not just trying to put him off. As genuine as you are being, as BS you often wonder (this from my own experience of recently being a BS as well), you often wonder if they have just gotten better at lying, if they are just showing you things to get you off their backs...it takes time for them to trust that you are genuine. Keep it up, keep up the personal changes, and he will notice and he will trust again. Have patience.



Wow this is a tough one. My parents and Sally from the boards were key in helping me realize my communication problems. i talk alot, and talk alot about my desires, feelings, etc - so i never thought I had a communication problem...but it turns out I did, or atleast with my H I did. The biggest thing I learned was that I always wanted my POV heard and understood, and so badly wanted it, I would have to have the last word. I never thought I had to be right, but I realized that my method for forcing my POV on someone could come across as me wanting to be right and bullying someone into seeing my POV - never my intention, but how it came accross. i also always reacted emotionally. And stated my needs in an emotional way - this caused my H's defense wall to come automatically up, and then conversations would never go well. I never realized I had sabatoged them before they even started - no wonder I was never heard! I have learned to walk away or ask the discussion stop when i feel the conversation heading to a non-productive place, when before I used to push the converstation until everything was discussed and i felt satisfied all my feelings were out. As good as I felt after, my H would feel pretty abused, defensive and angry.

My point is we all communicate different, but learning how to communicate with our husbands based on our H's personalities is what you need to do. In my H's case, stroking his ego and helping him feel as if his POV is okay to have, helps alot, as when i pushed my POV, he often felt I was looking down on his POV. we often don't agree, but now we respect that we think VERY differently, and we don't have to understand eachother's POV but we need to respect them.

I am rambling as usual LOL.

I hope some of this helped?

Dorry,

Your words are always exceedingly helpful.

"Definately wait and hope. I call this the WS's plan A of sorts. Continue to meet his needs as much as he will let you - continue to change and work on yourself. Don't push talk about the R unless he brings it up, and talk about his day, normal day to day things when he is up for it. Don't push time together, but try to get him to spend time with you by renting movies, maybe playing a game online with him, any that is appealing with no strings attached - quality time. There are ways to work with his escapes until he can give those up. Right now he may not be working on himself as he doesn't know how too since he isn't in IC or visiting MB. these are things I had to learn with my H as well as he wouldn't see a MC and stopped coming here early in recovery."

Now, this is going to sound REALLY bad, but have you ever stopped to ask why you're doing all of these things? Meaning, I would like to think that there's a purpose for my making all of these concessions, being patient, improving myself, etc. I do realize that unconditional love is a rare thing, but that can't be the only thing that keeps a marriage going, can it?

While I know my actions were horribly wrong, I still feel I deserve better than this. What would your counsel be if I've never had an A? And, b/c I had an A, does that then justify my ill-treatment?

As you can see, I, too, react emotionally - esp. when I'm fixated on something negative like this. I am very scared that things will never change ... that they may even get worse b/c now he can use my A as a justification for his actions and hold my natural inclination toward guilt hostage.

OK, here's the really BIG question for you and everyone else to answer ... should I move back in with him when all I see is regression? Unlike what FH said in his post to me, I feel like we're taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back every day. The 1st 6 weeks of recovery looked so good and promising. What happened???

OK, I'll stop rambling now and let the expert give some advice.

Thanks again,

Well whisper, I realized I WANTED my husband, not just needed, and I wanted him not only for myself, but for my children - I didn't want to let him go, and I knew that if I could hold out long enough things WOULD change. I had an affair, if that wasn't enough of a wake up for H to realize things had to change, then I don't know what. But I knew he would need to heal to get to that point that he could change. I couldn't ask too much of him at once. Now this was easier said than done...you feel very lonely, very hopeless, very hurt...but I reminded myself of my GOAL everyday - that one day we would have a healthy marriage, and it may take YEARS as people have said - but we would get there if I could make it through this.



You do deserve better, but in the same breath - so does your husband. The question is - what do YOU want whisper - do you want your marriage and your husband? Then patience. Things can change - but it takes time. If you didn't have an A, I would be telling you to get into MC, to learn how to talk to your H, to express your needs to get the marriage you deserve. BUT since you had an A, NO, it doesn't justify the ill-treatment...but your H has alot to deal with now too - it's not just you that was ill-treated, he was too, and he has to heal from it - you healed by having an affair and feeling better...he hasn't healed yet - he is 8 steps behind you.

I know what it is like as a FWW - we are ready for the marriage to change, ready to commit, ready for the changes...and we totally forget that our BS's are like 8 steps behind us. While we weren't happy - we had affairs....now they aren't happy - they probably wont have affairs, but they need to process and heal. I know your H had a year of seperation where he knew about the A....but the A is over and you are there with him, and it's probably really hitting home, what you did. You need to have patience. If after a GOOD recovery period, things have not changed, then I would say you need to push it harder. You are only 3-4 months in and it has been a good 3-4 months, and now you are seeing the 2 steps back - where he regresses a bit. Be patient, give him space, see if he comes around on his own. remind him you love him and this is where you want to be.



This is where I became the ultimate door mat. I put up with alot from my H - alot of very mean DJ and LB's and his pushing me away and starting to dabble in singles forums - when things got that bad - I didn't push and boundaries...and eventually he got into an EA and left me. Since he has been back, I have put my new communication skills into play as I wasn't going to have us make the same mistakes. When he came back I placed NO expectations on him to change. I knew he knew his mistakes, and he knew his faults, but I was determined to change and adapt to HIS personality and make it easier - after all I couldn't force HIM to change, I could only change me. And so far it has made a load of difference. There are still some things he needs to change, but I have faith it will happen in time, as more and more changes for us. change can be contagious you know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The first 6 weeks are always the newlywed stage....it's true when they say up to two years or more...lots of forwards and backwards...and this wont be the last one i bet. Hang in there - you are DOING great. As for moving in - that will your personal choice when you are ready.