Luz, but you are not doing this at all. You are taking the most risky, most costly, and most devastating path one can take. FOR NO GOOD REASON. The things you are doing are HARMFUL to the situation, not helpful. We are offering you solutions; your path does not contain solutions, but a sure fire ticket to a resumed affair and increased risk of divorce.


And you are the LEAST objective person in this situation, Luz. Which is why you are grasping at decisions that are being formulated by your emotions with no objectivity AT ALL. Please listen to us, Luz. We are not emotionally torn up and biased, as you are, and we can help you through this mine field if you will only let us.

Luz...

You are forgetting a few things...

-implementing Plan A is about YOU...if your marriage does end, don't you want to make sure that you have no regrets? Do you want to forever look back and know that you just rolled over? No matter what, you need to take this time to strengthen you...Take back control of your life...doing this is both empowering and attractive!

-please read up on the legacy that divorce leaves for children...trust me, you just giving up is not the right way to go here...though that may seem the easier, less painful, less risky route right now, that choice will always represent pain for your boys...wouldn't you feel better if you at least fought to give them the most advantageous way of life?...Being raised by two happily married parents gives them the best chance of success in all aspects of their lives...this is true while they are young AND when they are grown...the decision you make regarding this is like throwing a stone in a lake...the rippling effect caused by that stone changes the course of everything...the power to affect change is in your hands...use that power...Even if you don't end up recovering your marriage, won't it one day be important for your children to know that you tried to do the right thing by them? Otherwise, you know what lessons they learn? That adultery is okay AND fighting for what is right, good and moral is too much of a hassel...that's not what you want is it?

-your whole "absence makes the heart grow fonder theory" absolutely, 100% does not apply to relationships involving affairs...remember, I am a FWW, so I truly speak from experience on this one...I told my H the same type thing when I went to be visit the OM for two weeks...guess what? that only put me much deeper into the affair, not to mention the additional fog and the added destruction and pain to my marriage and my H and I individually that it created, and that was only a VISIT...luckily, for my family's sake, my H had read enough on this site to tell me NO when I asked for a separation after my trip...the likelihood of you recovering your marriage after a separation where you willingly move out, leave your children with your W and allow the affair to flourish in your own home is SLIM TO NONE, AND SLIM JUST LEFT TOWN!!! Do you really want to subject your boys to that situation??? You have to view your W as a drug addict right now...would you let a crack addict make decisions for you and your children? Believe me when I tell you that letting someone involved in an affair choose anything more important than what to eat for lunch is a mistake of colossal proportions with ramifications beyond imagination...I implore you to take charge, "man-up" and "fight the good fight" here!


-Your W keeps waffling between wanting to work it out with you and the OM...she's almost telling you that your marriage is recoverable, even in the fog...she's waffling because of her addiction (the affair)...but what's up with you? You are the strong one here, the one with the ability to make rational, clear decisions, if you waffle, then you are telling your W that you don't love her enough to fight for her...this indecisiveness on your part is driving her further away from you and your family and deeper into the affair...let what you stand for matter to you...be your wife's hero and fight for her!

Essentially what you are saying is that $$$ is more important to you than the future of your children and your own integrity...Luz, I know that you are hurting, but not fighting for what is right here will only cause you greater pain and anguish later...I believe you have a chance here-when you begin to read SAA, I think you will see that too...do yourself a favor and get a headstart towards the future of your family by getting the ball rolling on an action plan...YESTERDAY!!!

Mrs. Wondering


P.S. If you insist on not exposing at work at least do everything in your power to get in touch with the OM's GF...I promise you that she doesn't know all the details of this affair and neither do you...pool both of your resources, put pressure on this fantasyland relationship and bust it wide open!

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[color:"red"]Well, wait a minute, did I miss something? Has your W said that she is moving out and taking the kids? You may very well never get to this point once you tell her that you have realized how much you love her and are commited to working on your marriage...remember, you DON'T do separation/dissolution/divorce...that's for the lawyers...you only DO marriage!!! That's your new mantra.

That being said, it never hurts to cover your bases, so I would consult with your attorney about how to go about filing for a temporary custody order in the event that she does try to move with the kids. The court should not find it in the best interest of your children to be uprooted from their family home with a mother who would be carrying on an extramarital affair in front of them. It is important that you begin to document all of the things that you are doing for your children...and the things that your wife may be letting fall by the wayside where they are concerned. If your boys are in school or daycare, make your presence there known, do all that you can to show that you are the responsible parent putting the needs of your children first. If you do get to this point,put a call out on this board to Mortarman, he is an expert where this is concerned...he was granted temporary custody of his children at one point, though he and his W are back together and in recovery now.[/color]




[color:"red"]I am glad to see that you have made this decision. What you must understand, however, is that she will NEVER come out of the fog until this A is busted up and no contact is established...what is your plan of action regarding this?[/color]



[color:"red"]Read up on emotional needs (ENs) on this site...print out the EN questionaire and see if she will fill it out, if not, take your best guesses...many times conversation, affection and admiration are at the top of a woman's list...when you identify hers, meet the top 3 ALL of the time and the next 2 MOST of the time. Though it may be tough, try not to appear overly needy or clingy at this time, as most WWes find this very unappealing...obviously you know her better than any of us here, but it seems confidence on your part would be more attractive than cockiness or arrogance, but that's JMHO.[/color]



[color:"red"]We will always welcome you here, and your wife as well, when you get to that point. There are a lot of pros here that can offer you very good advice-I'm still a rookie myself, but will offer you what I can based on my own experience and my reading from these boards. Please understand that the people here are very caring, but if they see you making mistakes they will give you some 2 x 4's to get you back on track...take them with the care that they are meant to impart...so glad that you found marriage builders, it's the very best place you can be at a time like this.

Mrs. Wondering[/color]

This statement gives you a few things to think about. First, you can win custody. Her attorney told her so and it's true. You having custody is in the "best interest of the kids". You might not want it, but primary custody doesn't mean full custody. You would have the right to child support and a better argument for alimony because she makes more than you. Additionally, this conversation has no bearing on how she "feels" about you. She's a cake eater and she was merely debating her supposed situation with her girlfriend. A sort of weighing of the pro's and con's. By fighting for custody you would be boosting the con's of leaving you for OM. The more "cons" you accumulate the better your chance of busting up the affair. (btw - it is difficult to accumulate "Pro's" from a fogged out WW that's why you Plan A)

BECAUSE YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO FIGHT FOR YOUR MARRIAGE YOU WILL NEVER GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVEN WORK ON YOUR MARRIAGE UNTIL THE AFFAIR IS OVER. YOUR ONLY GOAL RIGHT NOW IS ENDING THE AFFAIR.

Finally, it appears clearly to me she wants a trial relationship with OM with you taking the role as Mr. Backup. She wants to document everything now because she fears you will get smart and realize you can screw her over in a divorce/custody later. Of course, from her standpoint (and maybe yours) she thinks this will help her decide between you two "objectively". FOGGY THINKING. You should not assist her in leveling the playing field with OM. This is not a game. Your family's future is a stake and you must exploit all your inherent advantages.

ACTION PLAN - If she demands/wants a trial relationship with OM she can only do it by leaving on her own without the kids. You must journal all your activities/duties you do for the kids to demonstrate your right to custody.



These sentences are logically incongruent. If you met someone that was filling your EN to such an extent that you would be willing to tell your wife you wanted to pursue other interests you would necessarily already be in an EA by that time. Then it's just a hop/skip and a jump away from a PA. Dr. Harley points out that we are all human and susceptible to having an affair. We are all wired for it. Your wife apparently was just the first to obtain to tempting of an opportunity. I'm a BS, but even I had to acknowledge that I was just as likely to seek getting my emotional needs met outside of an unhappy marriage and put myself at risk of an affair. With the knowledge I obtained from MB I now know I am most at risk for having an, accidental or not, “revenge” affair and must be careful/ever watchful to avoid it. Acknowledging my susceptibility makes me a better husband too as I now include my wife in much more of my life than I previously considered relevant to our marriage.



You'll never know this until the affair is over and well into recovery. Until then you must ignore anything she claims to "feel". At least by applying MB principles I can guarantee in the end at least she will respect you.


It's not an ultimatum. It's a boundary. Until NC you will do everything in your power to end the affair and establish no contact for your family. Now you can't go repeating yourself and bullying her into it. It really has to be her decision. But you will utilize every method you can to pressure her into making that decision. Until NC, despite what she says there is no way to work on your marriage. Until NC everything she says/does is FOG.




As you stated, RN's are the most hirable persons in the U.S.. Expose her at work. So what if she loses her job. You'll find when you do the right thing, things work out. She'll get a better job closer to home and family. Maybe you'll embarrass the crap out of OM or otherwise pressure him and he'll break up with her. Don't worry about being second choice; she'll have time to make it up to you once your marriage is restored.

In the end, a restored marriage most likely better than any marriage you've previously known. You won't know that until you get there. If you fail, oh well, you’re right back where you started. We all will be here to guide you through this process. Follow Wonderings plan above, it is well stated and tailored to your situation. We've all been there and wish you well as you set out on this arduous journey YOU'VE JUST COMMITTED TO.

Remember ACT, DON’T REACT!!!!!!!

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[color:"blue"]Aah, yes you are getting it...You only DO marriage!!! GOOD!!![/color]


[color:"blue"]Yes, she will be VERY mad, but that's okay. Arrange for your children to be at the home of friends or family, preferably, overnight. (1) In the state of mind that she will be in, she does not need to take the children anywhere...AND (2) Your children do not need to be there when the "fireworks" start.

Luz, be ready to take a lot of serious screaming "fog babble"...you need to be very steady here...Use Orchid's "reverse babble", it will help keep you on track...please find the link below...read and internalize it...[/color]

[color:"red"]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019927[/color]



[color:"blue"]Again, make sure you document all that you do for them...be able to show that you are the primary caregiver...really talk to their teachers...Be the concerned parent! I would still consult an attorney regarding a temporary custody order...just in case it comes to that, you will want to be prepared, not scrambling around in a state of panic and upset.

Your children are a wonderful asset or "magnet", if you will, when it comes to attracting your wife, and recovering your marriage.[/color]


[color:"blue"]She will not be able to show you love while she is in the A or even once she is withdrawing from it...You have to be the strong one here, and understand that it will come back eventually...Plan Aing and giving her an environment that she feels safe to open up to you in (no disrespectful judgements) will help clear the fog a little faster...but you've got a lot of work to do before you get to that point...you could be Brad Pitt/Martha Stewart/Bill Gates/Superman all rolled into one, but while that A is still going, she won't care one bit! You need a specific step by step plan of "attack" to wreck this thing...[/color]


[color:"blue"]While it's good that you see that using MB principles are what will make her fall in love with you again, it just won't happen until NC is established. She make look like your wife, walk like your wife, and sound like your wife, but she is really a complete stranger, an alien...THIS IS NOT THE WIFE THAT YOU ONCE KNEW AND LOVED...FOG!FOG!FOG![/color]






[color:"blue"]Again, Luz, this is not your W...you CANNOT trust her!!! Let me assure you that you can't predict what she will or won't do...people wrapped up in A's believe that they operate on a plane above everyone else...somehow "above the law" or "under the radar"...Just like a drug addict will do ANYTHING to get their "fix", so will A partners...As sad as this is, I would pretty much have given you my only child while I was deep into my A, nothing else matters...I know from which I speak on this...You can't measure your W by the same standards and morals you once knew her to possess...all bets are off in A's...[/color]


[color:"blue"]Okay, I don't think this is the best approach...

First, telling him not to tell your wife gives him too much power...you are pointing out your "Achilles Heel" to him...also, you should never warn A partners before you expose...gives them time to make up a cover story, i.e. "There is this nut threatening to do so and so...ignore him, he's just paranoid and off his meds." Also, you will lend credibility to what I'm sure your W has already told him...stuff like "He's a control freak"..."He thinks that I am just a possession", ETC...

I believe a better way would be to write him a letter and also send him a duplicate of said letter via email, just to make sure that he gets it...Enclose a picture of you, your W and children, and appeal to his "honor"...explain that you are very much in love with your W and that you intend to do everything in your power to keep your family intact...point out that these are the two little boys that will suffer if he continues to jeopardize your marriage and family by continuing an A with your wife...pretty much you want to make it a well worded, heartstring tugging cease and desist letter...if or when your wife reads it, it shows only your love for her and your children...and lends no creedance to the false accusations you can bet that she's been making against you. Obviously, if he fails to comply here, your next step is exposure...BUT DO NOT TELL HIM!!! Of course, this is JMO, let's see what others think...

Mrs. Wondering[/color]

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Luz...

I still think that sending the OM a threatening letter may not be a wise choice and it could actually backfire if he does show it to your W...She and the OM could then take on a "you and me against the world" attitude...why don't you edit the title of your post to read "Need Advice About Exposure"? You could then copy your idea, along with mine (if you like it),and this will allow you to get a bit more input before you proceed...and I do think it would be a good idea to post whatever letter that you decide to send and let some of the pros tweak it before you send it...Btw, the board tends to be a bit slow on the weekends, so try to do that A.S.A.P., ok?

Anyway...

Here is the link that you asked for plus one more that I think would be good for you to read...



What Are Plan A and Plan B?


How to Survive Infidelity


Mrs. Wondering

This is a HUGE MISTAKE, Luz. You will be essentially handing over all of your ammunition to the OM if you do this. Have you ever heard the phrase "forewarned is forearmed?" Let me tell you how it applies here. If you threaten to ruin the OM, he will quickly pre-empt you by telling people about some "crazy, jealous whackjob who thinks I am chasing his silly wife." So, by the time you call anyone they will have heard all about you and won't believe a word you say.

What you should do, instead, is go visit the man up and tell him you know all about his affair with your W. Ask him what his intentions are with your W and ask him to end ALL contact.

If the affair ends, so be it. If not, LAUNCH THE NUKE and expose him everywhere.

Now, the above does not apply to the doctor's GF or your W's boss. They still have to be notified because she cannot stay in that job if you want to save your marriage. The OM GF should be notified NOW, and you should stay in touch with her until this affair is truly ended.

Luz...

Okay, good, Melody agrees with me regarding "warning" the "good doctor"...she's a "pro" and I almost always agree with her...with the exception of confronting the OM in person...(Sorry Melody! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) Here's why I don't agree...(1)Would you be able to control your temper no matter what he said to you? We don't need you getting arrested...AND (2)I don't like the idea of putting anyone in a "challenged" position...brings out spite and a "just dare me" attitude for many. Also, how do we know that your W is being honest regarding the OM being afraid of you...couldn't she just be saying that to minimize the threat of her A where you are concerned, thus getting you to "back off"?

Anyway, I have NEVER quoted myself before, as I am no expert, but I still think that so far my letter and picture idea may be your best bet, so I reposted it below...and my H also threw in that if he is from a traditional Asian family, appealing to his "honor" may indeed hit a chord with him...

Mrs W, and these are good questions. But, he doesn't hit me as a hothead[implusive, but not a hothead]; some should not do this for these very reasons you cited.

The idea to do this comes from Steve Harley himself, and the reason it can be effective is that it achieves 2 things: a) it puts a real, live face on the "demonized" spouse causing the OP to think twice, and b) it conveys the message that he will not take this lying down.

See, many OP's do not want this kind of trouble and will flee at the first sign of trouble. A BS showing at his doorstep is a definite sign of trouble that the good doctor probably does not welcome.

I have seen others do this in the past and think it might work well in his situation.

melody ,

I have a question did you ever confront the OW in your sitch? And how come in some sitchs its a good thing and others its not?

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Luz...


I'm running out right now...and will be leaving to go out of town overnight in a bit...I'll try to check in later today, but it may be Sunday until I can...I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers...

Mrs. Wondering

hurtin, I did confront the OW in my case and the affair ended that day because of my call. My H had lied to the OW and told her we were "seperated but living in the same house." In many cases the WS is lying to the OP and contact can expose those lies.

And then you have cases where the OP is just plain amoral and does not care. In those cases, contact is useless and often harmful.

Luz, tell her exactly what you said and then ask her what she plans on doing about it or should you contact Human Resources or write letters to the board members? Act like you have an expectation that she will do something about it and if not, you fully intend to take it farther. An acceptable action would be either the release of your W or a guarantee that they never see each other.

Luz~

How are you doing? What's going on with you now? Please keep us posted...

Mrs. Wondering

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Luz~

It is understandable that you are feeling low and negative given the circumstances of your life right now...

BUT that is why all of us have been encouraging you to PLAN A...Remember, Plan A is what will help you regain control over your own life...We've already discussed this, but you've got to stop waffling here...Go back and re-read your own thread, you've been given a lot of good advice, but it's up to you to take it. Walking away just appears to be the easy route here, if you choose this, it may well come back to haunt you in the very near future...the consequences will be much worse than what you are now going through. Luz, the first step to taking back control of you life here is ACTION...start EXPOSING...even if you do decide to walk away, wouldn't you at least want to bust up the affair first? Further, until the affair is over, of course your W is going to tell you things like she has "paid her dues", and other more ludacris statements...FOG BABBLE...IGNORE any and all things that she says now...I believe that it was Orchid that wrote just the other day...

Q. How can you tell if a WS is lying?

A. Their lips are moving!

No truer words have ever been spoken...

Luz, time to pick yourself up and get moving on your action plan...Now is not the time for a "pity party", you are going to WAR, so MOVE IT SOLDIER!!!

Your Drill Sgt. Mrs. Wondering