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Good for you, Luz...MARCH ON!!!
Mrs. Wondering
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Luz, have your attorney get a temporary court order to get those kids. Tell your W you will be going before a judge to explain about her affair and that you not only have evidence but that his GF will testify to that fact. Tell her you don't want her to leave, but will not stop her if she chooses. However, she cannot be allowed to drag the kids from their home to accommodate her affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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ok
Last edited by MelodyLane; 09/07/05 09:04 AM.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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ok, gotcha, I feel much better reading this, Luz. We will be here to support you.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Luz~ As I mentioned to you in an earlier post, Mortarman is truly an expert regarding child custody issues as they pertain to the father...It would be a good idea to put a "shout out" to him on this board because of where you now find yourself...whether you do or don't, I think it may help you out quite a bit to read at least pages 6-15(*Edited to say...these are the page numbers as they appear to me...oops, duh, sorry...the post that I refer to below was made by MM to Gramn on 06/09/05...I know that you can find it that way) of Gramn's thread, paying special attention to the advice given to him by Mortarman...below, please find one of those posts, and click on the link provided (from page 12 of Gramn's thread-go there in case the link doesn't work here)...I think that this e-book would be money well spent for you... I am not too certain about the advice of your attorney regarding getting your W out of the house...saving your marriage is what this is about for you, right?...again, I would defer to MM on this...I think that it would be a good idea to temporarily change the title of your thread to read something like, "Mortarman, Help regarding child custody/father issue..." Luz, we are all behind you 100%, and will be here for you in any way that we can... Mortarman's post to Gramn... Some more stuff....
I used this book on this website as my guide. It was GREAT for getting me ready for the fight and understanding all of the nuiances.
click here: Fathers Winning Child Custody
------------------------------
Here is what this book will do for you (I know...because it did for me!!):
This will inform and help you learn How To :
· prepare well in advance for the evaluation & subsequent hearings.
· know what at ammunition to use and to look for that's effective, of which you may not have thought important.
· present your case & ammunition to the evaluator to advantage yourself with maximum impact.
· adequately defend against her accusations and to take the offensive.
· use tactics against her.
· win the psychological warfare.
· leverage things against her that you thought trivial or might not know are relative.
· know what mistakes not to make.
· know what things to do early on that greatly advantage your position.
· gain the upper hand.
· turn defeats into wins.
· know what the deciding factors are & what matters more & how to use the to your advantage.
· become and appear to be the better parent & the better alternative.
· get out of spinning your wheels if you find yourself constantly defending yourself against accusations &attacks, and from losing or looking bad.
· turn the tide & put her constantly on the defensive.
· effectively crush her psychologically or make her screw up & give you even more ammunition.
· organize & promote your side in the best light.
--------------------------
Here is the Table of Contents. I used this source over and over again to make my case the best it could be:
TABLE OF CONTENTS
CHAPTER 1 INTRODUCTION
CHAPTER 2 CASE HISTORY
CHAPTER 3 FIRST THINGS TO DO
CHAPTER 4 STOP THE DEFAULT IF YOU ARE SERVED
CHAPTER 5 YOUR ATTORNEY
CHAPTER 6 DON’T TURN YOUR BACK
CHAPTER 7 DOCUMENT EVERYTHING
CHAPTER 8 CAN YOU - SHOULD YOU
CHAPTER 9 BE MOTIVATED & DEDICATED
CHAPTER 10 DEVELOP AN ASSESSMENT
CHAPTER 11 IN GENERAL
CHAPTER 12 KNOW YOUR CHILD INSIDE & OUT
CHAPTER 13 WHO’S ON WHO’S SIDE
CHAPTER 14 THE RULES
CHAPTER 15 WARFARE
CHAPTER 16 WHAT YOU SHOULD DO
CHAPTER 17 EVALUATION IS THE KEY
CHAPTER 18 WHAT TO EXPECT IN EVALUATION
CHAPTER 19 EVALUATE THE EVALUATOR
CHAPTER 20 IF YOU LOSE THE EVALUATION
CHAPTER 21 WHAT IS MEDIATION
CHAPTER 22 THE HEARING WHAT TO EXPECT
CHAPTER 23 CONCLUSION *Just as I suspected, the link doesn't work from here...sorry, just follow my instructions above to get to it... Mrs. Wondering
Last edited by The_Wonderings; 09/07/05 09:36 AM.
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Hello Luz;
Mrs. W asked me to post to you because I am an attorney, albeit a tax attorney.
There's a reason they are called Divorce Attorney's and not Marriage Builder Attorney's. They make their living assisting people with the destruction/dissolution of their marriages. I do not believe you should be filing for temporary custody AND to get her out of the house. You merely want a custody order to maintain the kids in the household with you. Throughout the proceedings your wife will not be able to remove the children and by fighting for them and with documentation you'll probably win custody in the end. She can't throw you out so if she wants out she'll have to leave. At that point she's adding abandonment to her list of achievements for further more permanent custody battles.
Additionally, in reading some of Mortarman's posts to Gramn it may be a mistake to file for Temp custody while your wife is already out of the house with the kids. She could easily respond to your petition with allegations of abuse or fear and the court may declare the kids stay where they are pending the outcome of the court proceedings. You want that mandate to occur with the kids in your house. Lawyers and courts can delay the actual hearing for some time meanwhile it's your kids that suffer and who knows what lies will be told. So maybe you should get the kids home then file.
Ultimately, it's your life. Not your attorney's. So you must guide him as to your desires and save yourself some money in the long run by assisting him/her to the utmost. The e-book would probably pay for itself in no time so I suggest you get it. That way you are informed and your attorney can spend his time (and your money) fighting for you rather than educating you.
Good luck, Mr. Wonderings
P.S. - I also suggest reading the entire Gramn thread for advice on fighting for custody. Mortmarman did some very creative things. These are couple things I saw that I don't want you to miss.
1. Hold your cards close to the vest - Don't let your WW know you think your going to win, that your preparing to battle, what your strategies are, that you think your the better parent, nothing. To her, you do marriage. If she wants to discuss divorce/custody she should have her attorney talk to your attorney.
2. Throw out some bluffs and lies of your own. For example, maybe say to WW that if you guys ever did divorce you were thinking of moving to Idaho and taking up potato farming. Then in court at a custody hearing her attorney will ask you "Mr. Luz, is it true you have aspirations of moving to Idaho and becoming a Potato Farmer". You respond, "No, whatever gave you that idea, Idaho, what? Never in my entire life had I even thought of moving to Idaho, I'm like Dan Quayle, I can't even spell potatoe". You see, this just throws her attorney completely off balance, infuriates your WW in court (especially if it hits her she's been had) and makes them appear so very foolish and desparate.
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Luz~ Here's that link...sorry I didn't get it to you sooner, I was in a hurry when I posted to you earlier, and I've been gone all day...Hope you are doing as well as can be expected under the circumstances... [color:"red"]FATHER'S CUSTODY OF CHILDREN[/color] Mrs. Wondering Edited to add... P.S. You know that you don't have to start a new thread to "shout out" to Mortarman...you could just temporarily change the title of this one, that way your history is all in one place...and then MM could read some of your background as well...all you have to do is edit the title on your original post...not sure if you knew that or not...obviously, it's your choice, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...
Last edited by The_Wonderings; 09/07/05 03:06 PM.
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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I'm here and reading...standby...
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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I am working on a response to your particular situation. I do have a couple of questions that you need to answer...not just to me, but also to yourself and to that judge:
Why do you believe you should have custody of your children?
And if you believe you should have custody, how far are you willing to go in order to get that?
I will give yo uthe answers to my sitch and what I answered to those questions after you write yours here.
Now, off to get into the depth of your situation...
In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Hey Mortarman,
Mrs_Wondering and MelodyLane has suggested that I ask you for help on getting custody of my 2 young boys. You can read all about my situation in my earlier post. Much has transpired throughout this endeavor. Here is a brief summary if you do not want to read this entire thread. I am glad to help. If you go back and read my threads (which started in June 2002), you will see the road I took, and the pitfalls that I ran into. I am 33 and WW is 32 and a Registered Nursse. My wife is a 34 year old RN. Wonder if there is a link there. Seems like a lot of her nurse friends are caught up in messes like ours. She has been having an A with a 65 Year old doctor. I initially thought that it has only been going on since the end of June but I just recently confirmed that the A started some time late last fall or early Winter. How did they meet? Do they work together? Same hospital? With this A going back this far, the amount of time they have been talking per month (300-400 minutes), and how WW is still acting, lying, and being secretive, I now realize she has a very strong attachment to this guy. So strong that she is still jeoparizing her family's well-being. ******, I caught her in another lie just this morning. The OM has a girl-friend of 17 years. After much encouragement from others on this forum, I contacted the OM's GF. Exposure. Excellent. I talked with her off and on Tuesday for about an hour and a half. I did learn some new and very interesting facts about this situation but I also found out that I cannot trust her either. In my conversation with her, I gave her a few little trivial facts about me and my family just to see what she would do about it. When talking to her, she did sound like she was willing to help me brake up this A but she then used these trivial (non-damaging) facts against me and my W. She called WW's cell phone 5 times last night and left several messages. She did state these facts in her messages which means I cannot trust her either. Dont worry about trusting her. The point of exposure to her is not to get her on your side. It is to get her to get on OM's butt. And to take the secrecy out of the affair (affairs thrive in secrecy). So dont worry about trusting her. Look at Gramn's thread. He gave info to the OMW and got nothing in return. He still gives her info when needed, and expects nothing from her. But, he got what he wanted which was OMW going after her marriage, which put a huge problem on the OM. THAT is what this guy's girlfriend can do to him. Anyway, a few days ago, WW went pyscotic, demanded I leave, said she would get a court order to get me out of the house, took my kids, and said she is filing for D the next day. You didnt leave did you? She said that she will fight me for the kids, that I will only get to see them 4 days a month, and she will make sure that I lose my [censored] in child support. Ho, hum. The blatherings of a woman in the fog. So typical. Ignore it. She is just talking trash. My wife said to me right after she filed "I am under no illusion that you will get custody." Two months later...I got custody. Things have calmed down since then and we are now being civil to each other again. But I cannot trust who she has become and cannot trust that she will do the right things regarding the kids. She has already and continues to jeopardize them by continuing to expose them in this dangerous world she has created. We will get into documenting and how to do that...but I want you to remember one thing right now...document EVERYTHING!! Every interaction, every thing she does, and you do...especially to and for the kids. Document times spent with them. Who helps with homework. If you dont...START!! Just start being everything to them. As Mr. Wondering (who is an attorney and made some great points for you above) said, you want a pro-marriage attorney. What does that look like? Well, one that will look out for your interests i nthe divorce...but also understands that in this proceeding, yo uare still trying to save your marriage. Two things judges are looking for when it comes to custody: 1. Where do they live now; and 2. Who provides the emotional, educational, religious, etc support and instruction to the kids. That includes who is providing bad support or unhealthy lifestyles for the kids. You must document how you are being all the good things...and how she is messing up. That judge knows neither of you. Count on her going to court and saying that she wants a divorce because she is scared, etc. She will push things away from her immoral and illegal behavior. In response, your attorney should have reams of evidence showing how you were there everyday, how you provide, how you continue to try to save the marriage. One example? My attorney subpoened the sign-in and sign-out records from the afternoon daycer my two youngest went to. Why? Well, because we got those records for the previous year and guess what it showed? That Mortarman picked up the kids something like 120 times...Mrs. Mortarman picked them up 60. It was outside evidence of what my journal was attesting to...that I was there for the kids, that I was providing them a stable environment, that I was the one taking them to church, etc. And it showed that she wasnt as involved. More on this as we go along. So I need some help on how to prepare to fight for the kids if it comes to that. Please see the last few of my posts regarding my thoughs of ammunition that I have. She really has no ammunition against me other than she said she file based on my neglect of the kids. She "says." Does she have proof? She seems to think that the only reason I have been with the kids is because I have no choice because of the long hours she works. She seems to think that all of her free time outside of work, I pawn the kids off on her. This obviously isn't the case. She is so dimented right now, she will actually believe anything. She continues the usual babble... Again, my wife did the same. The blatherings of a WW. ignore it. If you show you have been there, if you can document, and have friends, relatives, teachers, etc show that you are the go-to guy...then her baseless accusations will be met with disdain by that judge. Judges hate for their time to be wasted with baseless arguments. WW: Our marriage has been over for years
BS: Really, then why did we have DS who just turned 2 years-old Good response. One thing you need to learn is how to babble back. How to read fogese (which is what she is speaking) and respond in a manner that is helpful but truthful. Read up on this web site on how to deal with their babble. WW: It is your fault that I got involved in this
BS: Really? How can you possibly justify that I caused you to have an affair?
WW: It takes two!
BS: But I wasn't one of them Orchid would be proud of that one!! Look, be aware that all of this she is saying is out of the WS Handbook. Most of what they do is scripted. Your wife is not unique. To morally get where she is at and feel good about herself, she had to chaneg reality around quite a bit. It will be awhile before she will see reality fully again. Just keep babbling back as you are. She may get angry or defensive. But the truth will begin to wear her down slowly. think of it as you planting seeds. Gonna take awhile to grow. WW: You are pyscho, why do you keep checking up on me
BS: Because I cannot trust who you have become. Good. Remember, affairs thrive in secrecy. never be bullied into giving up affair research or exposure. All affair research and exposure is GOOD!! WW: Why can't you just trust me?
BS: Because you have given me every reason not to. Good. You didnt get it detail. All she would have done with the details was change history and blame you. By being vague, you leave it open that she must look at herself to see what you are talking about. Remember something else here...always talk to her as if you know for sure the facts. Be matter-of-fact about things. No arguments. I am reading through your very long post to Grahm and I will be getting the e-book that has been suggested.
Can you offer anymore advice on how to proceed with this?
I really do appreciate all of your and everyone's help on this.
Luz Okay, start with reading that stuff. Then come back and we can proceed on what is next. In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Hello Luz; MM will be back. You appear very likely to win primary custody and to remain in your home. Do your homework. A quick suggestion. Do you communicate with your wife by email regularly? If so, then you'd have the opportunity to document some of the recent things she's done to the kids. This could be useful in court later. For example, Dear Mrs. Luz;
I am purposely writing this email to you today to address some of the issues and concerns I have about our children. This issue is completely separate from the issues of our marriage. I wanted to address you in writing because we rarely have an opportunity to discuss matters outside of their presence; and, so I could be concise with my concerns absent interference of the emotional stress of our marriage and how we find ourselves relating to one another.
First, I believe you will agree that no matter what happens between us our children are our #1 priority. It is very important to me that we are united in trying to minimize the impact that our marital conflict and its potential dissolution will have upon them. I will reiterate that I do not want a divorce and I am attempting to do everything in my power to restore our marriage. However, recently I feel the children are becoming pawns in our dispute. I do not feel that when you gathered up the children on Monday after our disagreement and took them to your grandmother's at 10 pm at night was in the best interests of the children. Yes, we were emotional but the children should be protected from this situation by both of us. Who else do they have? You and I will always be their parents no matter where and how we choose to live. From here on out let's be careful together to minimize the impact on them of our choices.
Second, we should try to remove ourselves from their presence when we do communicate about our marriage and/or them. Please feel free to leave me voice messages, email, whatever to keep this dispute between us. We've got great kids and we both don't want to mess up all we have accomplished to date. In the event you decide to divorce me, I hope we can both enroll in some classes to teach us how to be the best divorced parents possible. I am sure you will agree that neither one of us should speak badly of the other, we should mutually express that we love one another we just chose not to be together anymore and finally, that we demonstrate that love and respect as a friendly loving divorced parental unit (even if we have to fake it for awhile). That is my hope should that be the outcome of our mess.
I love you so much and so desire that we at least try to work things out. The door is open; however, with you or without you, I will make it. For our children's sake let's keep this between you and me from here on out.
Your hopeful husband, Luz I hope this is good. My overall intention is that this letter will document her recent misdeeds and turmoil she inflicted upon your children as well as document that you apparently have the best interests of the children at heart. You also encourage her to communicate by email or voice message which represents further documentation. Plus it would be really helpful if she responds to this and other emails because if she fails to contradict the contents it substantiates it’s truthfulness. As it stands now she could claim she removed the children cause you were violent or scaring them. But if she doesn’t document that in response to this email she’s stuck or caught in an apparent lie. The judge wants to place the child with the parent that will most responsible at looking out for the kids interests. Indicating your desire to always maintain a parental relationship with both parents is showing you “get it” and you will be less likely to use the children as weapon after the divorce. Please revise as you and perhaps MM and others see fit. You may want to add any threats or other things she's done but be careful not to tip her off that your intent is to document things for legal proceedings. She's in a fog so you can get away with a lot but be careful. Post your letter and we’ll make comments. Good luck, Mr. Wondering
Last edited by The_Wonderings; 09/09/05 01:27 PM.
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