Onpaperonly, If attorney's are not an option right now, call the IRS. They have the power and ability to make his life a living nightmare so quickly it would make your head spin. Among other things, what you are talking about amounts to tax fraud.

Hi Managing2- What a cooool idea that is! A liitle vengeful perhaps but at least doable. And free of charge too.

Somewhere on this board I saw a quote that said "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing." That's right on the money too.

Too bad I've seen the joint stuff & the bizarre accounting practices but have no copies of it. You think they'd look into it anyway and not just write me off as another evil ex-wife out to get the guy?

**I'm not wicked, I'm just drawn that way** (from who killed Roger Rabbit)

Thanks for the suggestion very much. OPO

Onpaperonly,

The IRS literally has the legal power to seize assets and then after due diligence is completed decide if you are guilty or not. Guilty until proven innocent is one area of institutional power that they have, even at the expense of the US Constitution.

Don't worry about what you have not seen, just tell them what you know and let them handle the rest. If they blow you off (unlikely) well mentioning it to your husband is enough. At the very least, they will investigate for an audit which will light a huge fire under your "husband." If he does have nothing to hide, then he doesn't have any thing to worry about anyway.

Vengeful? Perhaps, but on the other hand, in effect, he stole from you.

Hi OPO,

Great suggestions from managing2!

Being that you have been married for less than a year, it's good you didn't file jointly with him this past tax year.
You don't have to file jointly, if he is not residing with you.



By OPO:
"I'd be under alot of stress too if I had to keep up with so many lies! Do you know he actually had PHONEY cell phone calls! Really, I was already suspicious of the unbelievable GBI investigation or IRS calls, so I started writing down who called or when H said that He called and the TIME.

Then I signed him up for online billing and got a full list of him dialing for the weather, calling his office, etc."



--Isn't it kind of weird that he would tell you that he had conversations on cell with the IRS, when you found that he was actually talking to the weather station. Why did he say that? Does he want you to "believe" he is in constant contact with the IRS, and GBI investigations, so that you won't be? Hmmmmmm..... Oh yeah, and also he tells your D attorney that all his papers are at the tax attorneys now..
Are they really, or does he just want you to "believe" that.
Well if they aren't, they will be, and they will be in the hands of the IRS too!

You say he has tax liens? I wonder if his XW moved out after she was removed from the house deed by you and your attorneys? "If" she did move out.

He does sound like a cakeman, but there is probably much more to it that you have yet to find out, and hopefully not at his funeral.

I think I can cope with my H now better than I could w/ XH only because, the lies with the 1st were UNBEARABLE. That really through me into the depression bad, and a few nervous breakdowns, thats why I can understand you. You are dealing with a very "shrewd" man.

My H now tells me everything, he's an open book, even if it's gonna hurt me. The "cover-up" of his "meds" make me sad though, because he Dr. shopped and knew (as a previous drug and alcohol counselor) that he should not have been taking those meds the past 6 yrs! He was also fooling his therapist and case manager with it too, making everyone think he has had 6 1/2 yrs of sobriety, when in fact, he hasn't. He was just "substituting" legal pills. 2 months ago when I told his therapist he was looking intoxicated 3-4 times a week, but not drinking, you know what she told me "It's probably the Mountian Dew he drinks 24-7, he needs to drink more water" You know I am not a "professional" and I had to look these things up and I had to be the one to tell them this, UMMMM... SHOULDN'T THEY KNOW THINGS LIKE THAT! They have the list of meds he takes written in thier books! What I found, if you take ___(med) + ___(med) = intoxication. He told me the other day that it was like having a cocktail (a ticking time bomb), a few times a day! I was shocked he even finally admitted that to me. Now, 6 yrs later..... everyone is rushing to get him a new Dr. by next month.

I have informed him that if his escapade happens again, he will be gone forever, and I won't look back.

Love, Lady

Hello LadyS-

I fell back in my chair reading this! You have a crystal ball into my life.

My H calls himself "shrewd" all the time. Justifies it all with "I'd be of no use to YOU or my family if something (jail time) happened to me. I did this to keep ALL of us safe." So I shot back with- EXCUSE ME: you were no use to me with a pretend marriage to BOTH of us! As for keeping me SAFE, well I'd been safer if you'd have just LEFT ME ALONE!

Filing separate was the ONLY way to go. There were too many secrets. And even though I lost the standard exemption of $4850 & had to PAY over $4000 in taxes (my 401k closeout), I was at least safe from tax evasion or fraud charges. If just SOME of what he "confessed" is true, it is money laundering BIG TIME.

His phony IRS stories did 2 things:

1) to create urgent, unannounced absences as they (allegedly) called a "meeting" (so he could disappear at whim) and,

2) to "PROVE" his checkbooks were locked up by the Feds, and that it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to provide any money in our marriage until they investigate/ recover their tax money/ or release the "lien".


It's a heck of a note to discover that your H
SO MUCH didn't want to support you, that he'd invent any lie or excuse NOT TO! That's how/when I cashed in my 401k so I could keep my good credit and wait out the tax lien (that never was).

Remember, I had no real job (since his surgery was scheduled and he was going to pay off ALL of our debts once the house was sold or the *tax lien was removed.) It makes me boiling mad to see it for what it really was and NOT what he told me!!!

So there is the double slap in the face. The *I WILL NOT GIVE YOU ANY OF MY MONEY, BUT I WILL HAPPILY LET YOU ASSUME THE TAX LIABILITY FOR ANYTHING I DO OR HAVE DONE.* Plus I get the (bonus) of marriage vows to be faithful to only him. Cool deal, huh? Sign me up TWICE, haha



I'm glad your H is more open with you. He's probably embarrased to have this "problem". And maybe even afraid that if he displays any weakness at all that he's not worthy of you?

Men do seem to have fragile egos, from what I've seen. Has he ever shared any insight with you about not wanting to appear as a failure to you and the kids? I read somewhere- ...."that low self-esteem can lead to self-punisment." It might explain the attention seeking behavior.

Now if I could just figure out how I GOT INTO THIS MESS, I'd be alot better off!

Laugh, Love, and Live as much as you can!

Love, OPO

Yes OPO, you have a bit of work ahead of you, and I pray you stay strong. You don't need all that mess hanging over your head any longer.


by OPO:
"I'm glad your H is more open with you. He's probably embarrased to have this "problem". And maybe even afraid that if he displays any weakness at all that he's not worthy of you?"

Yes, I am glad he is more open also, but the only thing he is not worthy of right now is my trust, and that is difficult to not have being H & W. But hopefully in time.


by OPO:
"Men do seem to have fragile egos, from what I've seen. Has he ever shared any insight with you about not wanting to appear as a failure to you and the kids? I read somewhere- ...."that low self-esteem can lead to self-punisment." It might explain the attention seeking behavior."

You know it seems his ego was so big before his big fall, thats what I noticed anyway, pride. He was always speaking so highly of himself. He, he, he, he couldn't say enough about himself and fading from the family fast. He has now been pretty humbled. I do think his self eesteem is lower now though, and his ego has been somewhat shattered. He needs to be put back together again!! It's really hard to give him much admiration at this time, something I need to think about and work on. I can't even say "I love you" to him right now. He says it all the time! It's really difficult when he says it, and then a big silence on my part. :-( Why can't I just say it????


by OPO
"Laugh, Love, and Live as much as you can!"

Those are my 3 favorite things to do!! And I just hope I can do all 3 again soon on a consistant basis. Thankyou!! :-)

My goodness girl I didn't mean for you to do ALL THREE AT ONCE:) ha ha ha

I'm feeling much much better nowadays since the "storm" has settled. I'm actually thinking of a way to put my (CRAZY) experience to good use: I could write an episode for Desperate Housewives- I could be on Oprah and write a tell all book- or ***********?

Should we poll the group for suggestions?


Nice to hear that your H has humility and still says I love u. Instead of an akward silence, are you up for just hugging him? I'm sure it's hard to consider much more right now.

Too bad we can't fast-forward our lives and hurry to the parts when things are better. What do you do with yourself whenever you feel stuck in a blue mood?

I started taking B vitamins (about 2 weeks into my nervous breakdown) and now I think they are working, my mind is less fuzzy and I'm grateful to see signs of "me" again. It's amazing how nearly everyone who's gone thru some sort of betrayal talks about coming out of the fog as time passes. That's exactly how I'd describe it too!

I'm praying you come back to YOU again in full force, soon. Love, OPO

Good morning OPO,

by OPO:
"I'm feeling much much better nowadays since the "storm" has settled. I'm actually thinking of a way to put my (CRAZY) experience to good use: I could write an episode for Desperate Housewives- I could be on Oprah and write a tell all book- or ***********?"

I know what you mean, not many go through that type of experience, it's a "unique" one unfortunately. But I'm so glad you are doing better. It's funny that everyone talks about the fogginess of WS, but I do believe the BS suffers from fogginess too. So after the "shock" wears off we begin to start thinking somewhat better. Vitamin B's do help a lot, I take them too. I would prescribe them to everyone!!
I have to say being here has help me tremendously.

Have a blessed day!

Love, Lady

Onpaperonly,

Ok. The more information you give, the stronger your case grows. You made the statement that your husbands funds were obtained illegally and include "fake" losses. Sounds like he has a business, or business shell of some kind. If so, better, if not, no matter. Works for personal accounts as well.

I'm a banker, and I can tell you for an absolute fact that if you talk with his bank where he keeps his accounts about the illegality of the funds and what you describe as laundering activities, then they are REQUIRED BY LAW to report it to the feds. Banks are highly regulated and anti-laundering reporting and techniques are very seriously taken, especially post 9/11.

I could go through the paper work and proceedurs required by the bank to report it, but if you go to them, they may freeze his assets that very day. Because, if you report something like that and the bank employee(s), do nothing, then they are PERSONALLY LIABLE FOR committing a felony and subject themselves and the bank to criminal proceedings. No banker is going to risk that. He'd better have it in a mattress or else he is totally screwed.

You have massive, massive power.

Dear M2,

Thank you so much lending me your expertise. I googled some info about a form SAR that banks use & you are dead right. I hate to be a bother but I'd like to ask more questions of you....

1. H "says" he cannot get bank statements and copies of the joint checkbook checks because she was primary on the account and H (allegedly) removed his name from it in 10/04 when we married.

It that true? They really will not allow him access to the '03 and '04 documents (now that he's off the account) unless Ex-wife signs a document to okay it?

I just want to be sure that's not BS too. **plus, how do I KNOW H is not still sharing account w/her? I have no proof either way. Pretty sure the bank won't volunteer that info to me.

2. Yes H has a company of his own-#A. H also works as GM for a company selling same product line-#B. The strange behavior that caught my attention is:

H would pay for product w/ PERSONAL money that co #B would sell & keep profit on. H then rec'd commission on the sale. But- why take 100% of your own money & get back just 25% on the sale?

H has paid w/ personal $$ the overdue or uncollectable A/R that co #B receives. Who would pay invoices out of pocket like that? H claims he felt responsible for it as the GM.

TWO OCCASIONS - customer 1 came in 3 years after H had settled his back due acct w/ co # B and wanted to repay the $16,000. Customer 1 made ck payable to co #A (H's co). This makes personal $ taxable income, right?

Customer 2 came in 18 months after debt was settled, also wanted to pay up the $ 15,450. This guy had m.o. receipts for having paid $ 5200. back of the $ 15,450. Meaning it was now down to 10250.

Here's the kicker- Co # B, actually rec'd $ 20,650 (H's 15450+ customer's 5200 !!) But the overage never showed up on co #B records. End of story- customer 2 only repaid the dif to H ( since cust 2 DID pay 5200 of it) so H only got $ 10250 for the 15450 "investment" AND JUST WALKED AWAY FROM THE 5200 EXTRA THAT #B REC'D FOR BEING PAID TWICE. Again, the repay went it to co#A bank and it makes it taxable income not a return of a loan.

3. Knowing this info but having no verifiable trace to the joint account, HOW do I get cooperation from the bank regarding my suspicians? I saw the odd payments but I cannot prove it was done from joint accoint $ or cash from the mattress. What would be the appropriate way to disclose my thoughts to the bank so I'm taken seriously and don't come across as a lunatic?

Really, my own son doesn't believe H is bright enough to have pulled this off. My story is just too absurd. Pardon me, but paying someone else's bills is absurd too.

Thanks again for your help. I've never been in a situation like this and this forum is a god-send for the sanity I have left. I'm telling you the whole truth, M2, exactly as I've lived it, including the H's revelation as to why it happened this way. Psych blew it all off and said nope, he was just afraid to leave the 1st wife (guilt) and nothing more. I'm not buying it.

Love, OPO

Ok,

Without specific details on your husband's private business (company A) and the one he is a general manager for (company B), I'll just give you my take.

Let me start with the relationship between hubby's private business and his day job as a GM. If he has a private business that is doing business with the company that maintains him as an employee, then you have a clear case of a classic conflict of interest. Meaning, he is in a position as an employee of B to gain personally from the activities of A. (ie, read Enron) HOWEVER, if the activities and relationship of company A was and are fully disclosed and maintained through some contractual agreement with company B and the transactions are "transparent" (in other words fully documented) then Company B is maintaining a legal business relationship with A and B is fully aware your husband is profiting personally from the relationship then no conflict exists.

However, lets say that B is fully aware of A. Given the transactions you describe, I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that he is ripping off his employer. In fact, I would bet $100,000 that I am right.

In short, talk to his boss's, boss. Not his boss, but at least one level higher. At least.

On the bank statements from 2003 until October 2004. Totally bogus. If he was joint on the account, then he can have access to the records. For instance, if he would have to re-file his taxes for 2004 and get them for an accountant, the Bank cannot deny him access to his records (joint account at that time).

Again, my guess is that it is still a joint account. He's flat out lying.

None of the financial transactions you describe make any sense at face value, which is a classic warning sign of fraud. I cannot think of any legitimate reason that he or his company would settle an A/R payment on behalf of the customer's debt to company B. Why he would pay it initally is amazing. RED FLAG!!!

I would do this,

1. Contact his employer. Someone high up in the chain of command that would be familiar with his job. Again. I smell a big time rat.

2. Contact the IRS. At a minimum, he is under-reporting income if indeed company A's relationship with B is legit. The transactions are taxable income.

3. Contact the bank. You cannot prove laundering, nor do you need to, if you describe what you know and explain to the bank that you need to protect yourself from possible exposure through the marriage to B, they will figure out if they need to disclose to the fed.

4. Google the Secretary of State's office and do a free online search for hubby's business record. It should be registered to do business in the State you live. You will also find articles of incorporation, stuff like that, may even find the ex-wife is still a corporate officer. Almost all states have free registry access. For one thing you will find the TAX ID for the company which you can use with the IRS.

Regardless of who you talk to, impress upon them that you are taking personal steps to protect yourself from potential prosecution.

AT THIS POINT YOU MUST PROTECT YOURSELF! In some states you may be held criminally liable!!! I cannot emphasis this enough. PROTECT YOURSELF!!! NOW.

Think of Andy Fastow at Enron. His wife just got out of the slammer and all she did was sign a document that said she was a member of a partnership that did business with Hubby's company.

Think about it.

Onpaperonly,

Use this site URL below and you will find access to all the public records you need for now.

Remember our lives create a paper trail of public records. You can look up marriage certificates, divorce decrees and see if in fact he ever divorced wife #1. All kinds of stuff like that.

http://www.searchsystems.net/

Take care,
Managing2

Although I would not recommend it, but
with a social security # and a home address, you can pull his credit report from any number of free sites. This will yield lots of info, including the existence of a tax lien.

Oh my God! M2, I had NO IDEA his screwy dealings could ever implicate me. H has kept a very tight lid on his business activities so I've always thought of myself as more of a bystander.

I learned bits & pieces only when H was in a crisis mode and left something out in plain view or if I overheard something. H's explanations never made sense, but again, real records were concealed in his home, so it was impossible to spy for the details.

I never once signed anything for H's company, I refused to be an officer of the corp when H would not 1st disclose the books, and I've had zero involvement or interaction w/ H's attorneys or accounting firm. (It was the secrecy itself that was a red flag to me!)

I will speak to a bank official on Monday morning and after that, I am mailing a report to the IRS. I want it made clear that I have had NO PROCEEDS from whatever **** H is up to and the legal fallout is H's problem not mine.

PS- I know the health insurance fraud was real. I reported them myself with their divorce papers and my marriage license. Easy to do online. More joint accounts were documented by the investgator as well.

So if the IRS talks to the insurance company, a very trusted source, and learns just THAT much of what I said really happened, then maybe I can get their help in extracting the crook from my life.

God Bless You M2, for your kindness and for the forewarning. I am in your debt.

I was so wrapped up in losing at Love, and feeling betrayed and unwelcome, that I never once considered any other losses to come from this.

Now, I sit here so GRATEFUL to be dirt poor (AND SAFE!) because I never did receive any significant money from H other than a few shared paychecks. The bum ACTUALLY did me a favor....

Love, OPO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hi OPO,

I'm so glad that managing2 came along to help!! Wise advice! Wow, I would really like to know how it turns out OPO after you notify everyone. I think it is probably best you do that first and not notify the boss's boss until after they find out how he is handling accounting/ financial/tax procedures within his own accounts and businesses. If it goes to the IRS, they will notify the companies, and if you tell the companies first it may lead him/they to try to cover things and confront your H too soon... so good thinking.

How was your weekend? Mine was rough until last night, I finally came out of the stress. I was just so angry, my H wasn't here a lot of the time, and I was having to take care of children myself, of which I have done the past month. I screamed in the middle of the street at his friend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> as he was taking him away for the 3rd day in a row. His friend said to me "he has to take care of himself."
Well, I informed him I'm tired and have had to take care of the children in all of this pain all by myself, while he takes off w/ his friends. Then he said "I have to get it together." I think my anger is pretty "noraml" considering....What am I supposed to do sit back and take this ALL calmly!!! The guy is his sobriety sponsor, and has no clue what family is. Well anyway, all my neighbors were watching...

I felt a lot better last night when I told all the demons around my H to leave, and they did!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Love, Lady

From LadyS-

"Hi OPO,

I'm so glad that managing2 came along to help!! Wise advice! Wow, I would really like to know how it turns out OPO after you notify everyone."

Yes, managing2 is a lifesaver.

Can't believe no one guessed I was the "someone" who turned him in for the health ins. fraud! I was the only one who had copies of his D and our M. Still it did little to get me divorced.

I had intentions of going to their joint bank this morning but instead I just drafted a letter to my local D.A. to ask them to look into it. I put it all in chronological order, as it was told to me, and so far, no response. I'll be happy to report back to the group whenever they contact me or I get more info.

H contacted me again on my work cell #, said he'd seen the D attorney "so come meet me & sign this thing." I did meet, & of course there's no papers. Told me he was NEVER going to allow me to make such a HUGE MISTAKE especially while I'm so stressed and I'm not thinking clearly.

Somebody just shoot me please and get me out of this mess!

Sorry to hear about your weekend. I can imagine how drained you must feel when H needs "to take care of himself first" and you have to carry the load for yourself and the children too. It's like he holds the trump card, sortof a "free pass" from being burdened with responsibilities outside of getting better. But it's true he does not to get better to be a full partner to you, so please hold on, muster up just a little more energy and I hope it will soon change for you.

I'm lucky in a way. I can crawl into bed and hide from my misery for hours on end since I've got no one at home I have to look after but me. Ahh, the joys of old age!

Hey, wasn't I supposed to get wiser with age? Did I miss something along the way?

Love and prayer to you Ms Lady, OPO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good morning OPO,

I'm glad you wrote to the DA, but I wonder how long it will take. I hope they help you out of that mess fast! Okay, I just have one question, do you think he would harm you, I mean physically? He sounds crazy, and I wouldn't be alone with him anywhere being he tricked you into meeting him like that.
And who's making the HUGE MISTAKES? And who's not thinking clearly? I would tell him NC, except through D attorney. The D attorney will contact you if you need to sign any papers.




Yeah me too. Hey, we might be making better decisions by the time we are senior citizens! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Love and Blessings, Lady

okay, I am crying big time now.

We were wrong about help from the DA. I called them to explain my urgency & the assistant DA said they don't START investigations. They look into current crime from evidence I give to the police.

Okay WHAT evidence do I have? What CURRENT crime do I report? Everyone I talk to just tosses my story in a "domestic dispute" column and WILL NOT take me seriously. Asst. DA said get a lawyer, get a divorce. Geeeeeeeeee, why didn't I think of that?????

I'm mailing my suspicians to the IRS. Even THEY don't sound too anxious to see me either as they just asked for the fraud info by mail! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

See how I'm seen as the nut case? It's not fair!!! No, I don't have ACTUAL stacks of money with H's fingerprints, No I don't have bank statements or a copy of his hard drive. It's like I need a smoking gun and a fresh dead body or something.

errgh, where are you managing2 ? Is there nothing to do but wait for contact from the IRS?

H's "joint account" bank would not even speak to me, would not confirm or deny an account, and said they'd discuss member information w/the account holders only!!! I tried to explain but she looked very nervous as if I had a screw loose.

No wonder they could get away with money laundering for YEARS. By all appearances the informant is either a jealous witch or a nut job.

Dear God, all I want is OUT.

Love to all, please pray for my sanity-OPO

Oh no, I'm sorry OPO, the DA's weren't helpful at all. I'm surprised by that, the evidence is what you saw, heard and expreienced. You know if you told them you just saw someone rob a bank they would be right after him!! Would you have the proof of that in your hands, No, it's what you saw. NOT FAIR! Did they actually read your letter yet as they were on the phone with you?

Okay, go to the police dept, and talk with an investigator there. Tell them that you would like to speak to an investigator that deals specifically with fraud/money laundering. Then tell all the details you know about. And that you are not a jealous witch or a nut job, but that you are taking this very seriously. Maybe they can come up with the evidence. Also tell them of the past health insurance fraud committed.

You know one time I had to go to the police dept, and tell an investigator that I had just seen a man pull a gun out and shoot it in back of a store. (I'm telling you, I was running out of the store as fast as I could go, right to the police dept.). So an undercover investigator went and pretended to be buying a car that was on the parking lot of that store. He found the gun shells on the ground and he got the guy and took away his gun, and gun license for a long time for shooting it on public property like that. So I know they have to look into what you tell them.

I'm hoping the IRS will come through for you also.

Don't give up! I know you will find answers!

Praying for you OPO. Love, Lady

Dear LadyS- Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts. I just don't get this either.

I have no criminal record, no history of filing false reports, in fact I am a pretty regular kind of woman w/ a job, 2 cats & a family. I have no drug habits, I don't drink...So exactly what is it that tells people to just dismiss my allegations?

It's "get a lawyer, hire a PI, or tell it to the IRS".

I can't work or even think right now. The tears keep coming on as I feel so helpless and unheard. Will it ever end??? A NORMAL person would just grant me a divorce!! Legal aid was no help, you have to be below poverty level and I don't hit that mark. Their big suggestion? Put it on a credit card and make payments. Pay another retainer and $ 200/hour to FIGHT for my release ? I can barely pay min.'s on CC debt now.

I'm dying hear folks.

We've lived apart for 8 months now. Why won't he JUST let go of me and end this nightmare?

I'm ready to move to another state or fake my own death... WHATEVER it takes.

Really, would moving away help me?

OPO