In reading this book that my mc suggested, I was struck by the author's bilbliography. She wrote this book after she divorced her husband. What also struck me was the fact that she has not gotten married again. She was also not an expert when she wrote this book.
I am half way through the book, my mc said both my husband and myself were co-dependent on each other. My husband is the caretaker. Me, I don't think there is a name for me. My husband and I, are neither drug addicts or alcholics. But we are still labled co-dependent.
My husband fits the caretaker/co-dependent to a T. I, too have some of the symptoms of being co-dependent. While the descriptions are acurate, what bothered me about this book, is that I felt the author was anti- marriage. I feel her goal is not to make the marriage better, but instead give the reader the insight that will allow them to abandon the marriage. Hmmmm! I walked a way from this book, feeling depressed, and rejecting the author's point of view, due to her focus on healing the individual, not healing the marriage. Is there anyone else on this board that has read this book? What are your views?

Take a gander at this article about the co-dependency movement written by Dr. Willard Harley:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cod.html

kds ~ it is an excellent book, for those living with the problem of addiction. She's not anti-marriage. But people living with active addiction are not in healthy marriages.

I have no idea if you are codependent.

Do you have a problem with addiction - or have you been affected by it in your past?

It may be that you need a new MC...but...don't dismiss it just yet.

Why did your MC say you were codependent?

Are you busy trying to control each other? Do you manipulate each other and enable unacceptable behavior?

Great article MelodyLane! Kinda puts things into perspective.

I read Willard Harley's article on how the co-dependency movement is ruining marriages.
When I read the book Co-dependent No More, I remarked to my husband how most of what the mc said to us was in this book. I guess it figures if he recommended it to us to read. Bramble Rose, neither my husband or I have a chemical, or alchol dependency problem. After reading Dr. Harley's article, he clarified that the problem with the Co-dependency movement is the fact they are applying thoughts and ideas that work well for a person with chemical dependency to people that don't have chemical problems. It just doesn't work the same.
Thanks for the heads up Melody Lane.
I think I should find a new counselor, I knew in my heart that when the mc was pushing my husband to do all the things he wanted to make himself happy, and not saying find the things that both of you like and do them together and you will find happiness, that the theory was not quite right. The counselor was pushing individualism and make yourself happy at all costs, regardless of anyone else's needs or welfare.
Two Thumbs up Dr. Harley. I like your way of thinking much better.

kds, if you want to get your money's worth out of counseling, try Steve Harley. He is not one of these mushminds who think folks should do whatever "makes them happy." [I wonder if they say that to serial killers? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />] Dr Harley is a superb psychologist who understands infidelity and knows how to build a great marriage. He is PRO_MARRIAGE, unlike most mc's. He will give you a PLAN and won't waste your time with this kind of nonsense.

I will make an appointment with him.
Thanks Melody.

kds ~ I agree with Melody, you should counsel with Steve Harley but ...

I have read your other threads. Don't throw the book out.

While I don't suggest you put boundaries between you and your husband...or focus on more independent behavior...which is Harley's objection to it being used outside of addiction situations...

It does seem to me that you could benefit from learning the difference between boundaries and control.

Did either of you have addiction in your family history?

I have read the book and it make some good points but I agree too - it sounds a bit bitter - I do believe the author herself was an alcoholic as well as her husband too - so remember that it is written by someone dealing with alcholism.

But I do agree that many people coming out of co-dependency become too independent and that can be as harmful to a relationship as co-dependency.

I too was co-dependent, and in some ways still am - but I like to call it inter-dependence. i book with action steps I did called the Self Confident woman (christian book) helped me with it and calls it interdependence.

it explained how being co-dependent can be harmful- but being independent can too - that there is an inter-dependence that everyone must learn in order to have healthy relationships - where there is give and take, and resposibility for your own actions, and alot of giving in those relationships, etc, etc. That too much INDEPENDENCE sabatoges as independence is full of the "Taker"

It's okay to depend on someone. It's what co-dependency does mentally that is not okay - feeling ultimately resposible for the other person's choices when you have no control of them, trying to control and influence the other person as a way of "helping". It's okay to depend on that person...it's how you are depending and controlling that is the problem and is alot of what co-dependency is.

Interdependence is healthy, codependence is not. They are entirely different, even though its easy to get them confused.

Codependent recovery, applied to healthy people, hinders development of interdependence.

Codependents must learn how to use boundaries and become healthy independent people.

Interdependence requires healthy independent people to learn how to be vulnerable and and to drop boundaries (only within marriage!).

Codependent behavior is that of a controlling doormat. (Doormats generally are controllers). A codependent is not weak and helpless but always views him/herself as a victim. Codependents are often angry and very manipulative. Codependents blame others for what happens to them. (No responsibility). Codependents do not use boundaries, they use control (independent behavior, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, and sometimes angry outbursts).

Unfortunately, I've seen too many people use "interdependence" as the excuse for very unhealthy codependent behavior.

Did either of you have addiction in your family history? [/quote]


No chemical or alcohol dependency in my immediate family, but my step-father was an alcoholic. I chose not to drink, because of this, and my husband chose not to drink because he knew how I felt about this. Over the years I grew, and realized I could have a drink or my husband could have a drink and not become an alcoholic. We occasionaly have a glass of wine, or beer, but thats not more than once a month or so.

Aaaah.

It's not how much you drink that is the problem. It's not how much anyone drinks that is the problem.

I'm not an alcoholic either. But my parents grew up with alcoholic parents (my grandfathers). So I learned many unhealthy behaviors and "truths" as I grew up that were directly the result of alcoholism, even though I was not immediately in the vicinity of it.

I later went on to marry one.

Now, aside from my husband's addiction, there were alot of problems with how *I* behaved that would have been wrong, regardless of who I was married to. I had to unlearn those behaviors, no matter who or if I was married.

Not saying that you guys have a serious addiction problem...but I suspect, that your MC probably was on to something.

Now, that does not mean that I don't think you shouldn't be talking to Steve Harley. You should be ~ he is your best possible hope. Neither of you are addicts, so there is no reason why SH's plan should not work for you.

But it might help to explore some of your possible codependency issues with a IC. Don't be so quick to write off your MC's concern. I'd be willing to bet that codependent tendencies may be some of the source of the lovebusting both of you are doing right now.