i really appreciate all your advice. things are starting to look up as now the guys he works with know. i spoke to one of them and they actually told me that another guy there had just made the comment he was running around on me. this is good right? exposure...had to happen eventually right. his mom knows, friends, family, work...even though for some reason he still denies..."what girl" "i don't know what your talking about" that kind of thing..but he knows...he has to, that he just looks stupid denying. how long can he go on trying to make everyone think they are wrong? anyway...the guy i talked to is going to talk to him...so he will deny to him...but at least its out there right? he is still being nice, but i have changed. i told him to stop trying to be friends with me i have plenty of those, i needed a husband. my actions, and attitude have changed as well...as to say...you can no longer treat me this way...unacceptable. is this good...i know with time...things will be better...and i still want to work it out, but i feel he needs to face reality and think he has lost me. he has definately been nicer since he thought i was done. is he afraid... i am done? is what i am doing okay? he still goes to see her but in everything i read...its not something that will end cold turkey right? now that people are finding out...this is good right? thanks for your advice...

one other thing i just thought of...you mentioned the part about not doing it...on a good day because he would go back to OW. let me just point out..he is being nice, but if he thinks i might touch his arm or something..he jerks back..tells me not to touch him (this has been only when he was angry) but i did touch the back of his neck 2 nights ago because he had a scratch and he didn't move or say anything...but that was the first time, he has also brushed against me a few times lately but before would majorly avoid physical contact...when you said that it got me worried...as you know i am about everything anyway...its definitly not to that stage...he goes back and forth about if i ask do you want to work on the marriage, one time he says "i don't know" then "no" then most recently both but when he said no..he said "do you" ..i just didn't respond..because he really acts like he is in "LA LA Land"...anyway...just wanted to add that...

Ahhh... it sounds to me like you are doing well. I would not keep asking him if he wants to work on the marriage, he will let you know if he is ready to end the A with OW... it's that "opening the cage door" thing... don't pursue, don't let him feel trapped. A lot of reverse psychology. You might want to check out the homepage of http://www.stopyourdivorce.com for some concepts on this, I found it helpful, but I don't recommend buying the book. If you're going to read an entire book, definitely buy Harley's books like Surviving an Affair.

But this website helped me a lot to decompress our situation, take some pressure off me to "respond in the right way" or try to make rational arguments of why he should not abandon his wife and family... they don't work.

Some good examples there of "going with the flow"...

Also, as far as the exposure at work - yes, it's good. I hate it though when it's all conjecture and speculation. If anyone asks you about it, or you report it to anyone at his work, state it as the fact that it is. He has left his family for goodness sake's! Of course he's have an affair! It's so painful to realize, but... he can't change what he won't acknowledge (dr. phil)...You may be surprised how people who know him and work with him make excuses and allowances for him, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think drawing the respectable boundary of how he is treating you is good. Reread Plan A and Plan B on the homepage too if you haven't lately... Plan A is NOT being a doormat. He will respect your calm and dignified persona when this is all over; it is one of the things that wins WS's back. That and your Christlike love toward him and DS, and your self-respect, believe it or not!

It won't end cold turkey. I would listen alot and say very little to him at this stage. Not coldly, just wide-eyed and observing-ly... know what I mean?

NTL

NTL, you are such a comfort and your advice means so much...but i didn't read your post until today and things got somewhat heated again last pm so i hope i didn't screw things up. i asked him again if our marriage was over and he answered as he always does with another question "what do you think" as if he doesn't want to say...but i took it as if he meant yes...when i asked if it was because of her he answered "who" i broke down a bit, voice cracking and teared up and told him again that i loved him like no other, and i told him he had what most men desire the most...a wife who has never been with another man but him and has stayed faithful to him, something he couldn't have with her. i asked him why then it was over and he said "because of the money and other things" i said that was bull because he hasn't paid anything hardly since he left 6 weeks ago and as far as the "other things" he has yet to clue me in on those. he was still being very kind, after we argued some ..i can't explain its like he tries to change the subject any time we get on us...he always does and if i play that game with him we talk and he is fine. but before he left i told him, very firm, don't call me anymore unless it has to do with our son (he has now started calling 3 or more times and coming by our house almost daily staying 15-30 mins.) i told him not to come by unless he called first and unless it had to do with our son. i felt as though i had to because i felt he was getting to comfortable...he has his OW meeting his "needs" and me meeting his needs of conversation and friendship and real life. he would go out then come in and call me. i just decided i can't let him do that to me...if i don't stop it it will never resolve. am i doing okay...did i blow it by tearing up? the guys from work are calling, his best friend calling and telling him to "wake up" and his mom...and now he keeps saying...i need to leave, mom's driving me crazy "it would just be best if i leave" so i don't know if he is setting me up to leave, if she is single he can move in with her...i don't know if she is...but he has no where else to go and no money...so i don't know why he keeps saying that unless she is and he is considering...if so i think it might be good...he wouldn't make it with her long...and besides he would have to confess then...i really believe with the way he has been towards me lately, if he left it may be just the push he would need, because their relationship is a lie. of course i could be wrong and then i would just die. i am a little worried about this. Last night was the 1st day/night he has not left for a few hours, he was at his moms all evening... which i thought was weird...he has been gone everyday for 6 weeks...NTL am i losing ground? any help is much appreciated.

No, I don't think telling him these things last night was a bad thing - it is part of Plan A - state your love for him and your desire to work on the marriage. Again, once stated, I would not keep asking him HIS feelings about it - you only make him feel trapped and look desperate, plus it's such a letdown everytime he says no... I think you see that.

Also okay conversation,

Are you kidding? Did you blow it??? I am over here doing the happy dance because YOU DID SO GOOD!!! You told him (a) you love him (b) you want to save the marriage and (c) you respect yourself and your marriage & family to stay in a painful love triangle - plus for added measure you refused to continue being his emotional security blanket; which would allow his cake-eating to go on forever. GOOD FOR YOU!!! You will speed up the progress of the end of his affair immensely by following through on this - politely, firmly, lovingly, firmly, firmly, firmly. It is for YOUR mental health and your marriage!!! GOOD JOB!

Then the next step is when he states that he might want to work on the marriage after all, that's when you insist on him doing NO CONTACT with OW and mailing the accompanying NO CONTACT letter to OW before you consider counseling with him.


GOOD!


His blah blah blah fog, just smile and nod & try not to worry about the crazy things he ponders too much...

And 1,000 Marriage Builders say... "their relationship is a lie" You are going to be okay, Jaysmom. You really are! With or without him, you really will be okay. But you are doing the best possible thing I believe you can do by doing what you are...


As I said, I think you are doing just great. Have you been reading Dr. Dobson? It looks like you have... ?

I think you have a wonderful Plan A going, and if you keep it up (again, politely, firmly, no lovebusters) I think you will see him start figuring some things out.

Keep posting,
NTL

NTL...this is too funny, yesterday he didn't call at all, as i expected he wouldn't(pride you know) and i did not call him...1st thing this morning on my way to work...guess who calls... i had been praying..i told God i was at my weakest this mornig for whatever reason and i honestly did not feel any hope for our marriage... i prayed to God that if he wanted me to continue hope for it he would really need to give me something to get through the day because i was really weak...i was tearing up and really didn't know how i was going to get through today...i prayed to God that i felt as though my H would not listen to him and my hope was gone...i told God i needed something...i prayed Lord if you want me to carry on with hope then have him call, i even prayed that i knew he would not call and then shifted my prayer to help me start to cope and deal with moving on without him...and i swear to you not 1 min. after my prayer he called...if thats not God working i don't know what is. H started in on his day...then i finally mentioned our son and went from there. he called me again on my lunch to make sure i was not getting our son, which i made clear in our first conversation...my best friend told me she knew he would call but she honestly did not think he would before a week or at least few days..she said that it shows his pride is breaking down some...anyway...i wanted you to know...God is an awesome God...and i pray he blesses you, for your kindness and advice...so now how do i make sure when he calls i don't let him get too comfortable without being cold or looking like i don't care...i don't want to push him away so i'm not exactly sure how to handle...plus i have come to figure out about his A, before the A he had gotten really obsessed with s-x, or favors. Nagging me sometimes 20 times a day...so i believe he is just obsessed with that in this A...its a long story..i will not get into all of it right now but i know he got extremely depressed over our finances and then got obsessive about that, saying to me he just wanted to feel good for a few mins. to take his mind off of the bills. He does suffer from past depression. we ended up fighting over his nagging obsession of it, and i declined him because it wasn't about me and him, just him...anyway long story short...we fought he said he would never ask again for anything...i said fine, and he didn't, 2 months after and 60lbs. off him later, he has OW and moves out. So i feel like instead of him facing our bills (he is not) he decided to get someone to help him "feel good" and now he is addicted to it. any way...i still continue what i am doing...any other advice for me...?

Yes, our God is an awesome God, isn't he? He reigns with wisdom, power and love from heaven above!

I think as far as the sex issue, was there something else going on that changed his behavior to make him obsessed? Pornography? He lost 60 lbs in 2 months? Was he working out constantly or fasting or something? So it went from that to two mos. w/o sex and then OW?

You are doing the right things, continue on. Listen to God as you have been - He's the only one here with all the answers! My H has battled with depression also, so I know how hard that can be. That may worsen as this situation becomes more & more confusing for him. Just be prepared.

Affairs are addictions, you hit that right on the head.
Once the A ends and he agrees to NC, then you will be in a better position to deal with the other addiction issues I think.

He is missing you, so that is a good sign and puts some power in your hands. If he does not end the A during this Plan A stage, you know you will be in a very good position for Plan B, because he can't even go one day without wanting to talk with you! He will not last long in Plan B I don't think, but it's too early for that yet.

Keep posting, I'll keep checking back this weekend - NTL

Yes, in answer to was there something else going on...things in that department have always been fine, until i went back to work last july full time, i had been working 2 days a week, and home with our son the rest. He was off the 2 days i worked so our son stayed with him...absolutely the best dad in the world... this man wouldn't let our son spend the night with grandparents because he didn't want to be away from him, our son sleeps with us, and he never wanted him in his own bed...he's a real softie at heart. As far as what happened...well i went back to work because we spent all over our savings....SEVERAL thousands of dollars...like idiots...we got credit card after credit card to keep up our lifestyle...then the bills came..and we had no money to pay them...we could have but ...we wanted to still buy the world and take expensive trips...you know...i have no good answer as to why we did what we did...but we did. this was also what happened 5 years ago...credit card debt got the best of him...anyway long story short...they sent us letter after letter, forclosure, etc....thats when it became obsessive...i got really depressed myself after going to work, missing my son and so i just didn't feel up to it much...plus the bills were too much...so i asked him to "take over" paying them...big mistake...he didn't know how...he paid everything and we bounced several checks and stayed in the negative for weeks...then the forclosure letters came...just one thing after another...thats when he started asking for "favors" all the time...it started out just a few here and there...he is a big joker and would ask "how about helping a brother out this evening" that was his cute way of asking...until he was calling me at work towards the end about 10 times a day...asking for that....he would say...if you will just tell me you will i won't ask you anymore today...but by the afternoon...he would call..."you did say you would help me out right?" it just became nagging. he even said to me...i know i am driving you crazy...(i remember it like yesterday now) but i just need to not think about the bills and that is the only thing that makes me feel good...just for 5 mins...i won't have to think about the bills. this was in May...and then he made the comment...i am going to stop eating and lose weight maybe then you will want to be with me...i said, its not that your crazy...i just don't understand why you are so obsessed with it...and its getting on my nerves. then we fought and he said "fine, i won't EVER ask you again for anything..." i said fine, got mad and said 'go get you another girlfriend and maybe she can help you out" ( of course i hate myself today...but i swear...i didn't mean it, that is usually how we fight...he hurts me, i hurt him, we make up...) that was on May 31st. he stopped eating, really, eating nothing for days...his mood changed but i just thought it was from not eating, and he didn't ask anymore, but again i thought it was from not eating...he was still very very loving, still called me 50 times a day...it didn't seem directed towards me...just wanted to lose weight, and he did by August 23, 60lbs gone, and a girlfriend later, here we are. He didn't start acting like before until August...and thats when the phone calls started as well. he promised to call the Dr. because of his past depression...and he did....but he came home saying she said i wasn't depressed, his mom and i just about died...of course he was...look at our financial strain...so we knew something wasn't right...then i find out recently about the viagra...so he went saying ....he was having trouble with that...( he was towards the end...having some...) our last time togeter was in August...but before the calls started and wasn't very long...if you know what i mean...so i figured the pills are to help him with that, but for her, not me. thats what hurts so. the first of August he did ask 1 time and i did, and then the last time i initiated it...but then that was it. So i really believe his depression got the best of him...and he is getting his "feel good" from her/it. he says alot he is sick minded ...but won't call the Dr. Today we went together to take our lease back...and he talked and talked...i was nice, but not overly talkative...i did tell him a couple of times i was through...he said nothing. he is still avoiding the major bills but paying the utilites. but i agree with you...already the depression seems to be a little worse...he is now taking anger out on his mom, but she is staying on him about bills...and it gets on his nerves, but he is blowing alot of his $. Anyway... didn't mean to ramble alot today...but i am worried that he may never come around. He just says he wants to get away from everyone...i asked him...do you just hate everyone that cares about you...and he said "pretty much" but i know that is just his mouth running...he says all the time...i just want to be alone...well...if he keeps on he is going to lose everyone that loves him. is there still hope? even if his depression gets worse?

I can't believe the dr. didn't think he was depressed, did he do a written depression screening and not be honest or something?

I'm not sure what the reason for replacing worrying about the bills with SF is... he just obsessed about the bills that much? We have had a lot of bills, but I don't remember either of us not being able to get it off our minds...? Stress relief I guess. I think addictions often start to feel like the "Wack-A-Mole" game... you hit down one and another one pops up somewhere else to take its place.

So I guess he took you literally about getting a girlfriend, I'm sure he knew you didn't mean that but used it in anger as an excuse to start something with OW. Where did he meet OW - who is she? Work? Friend?

Is he currently on anti-depressants then?

NTL

the Dr. didn't think so because i believe my H wasn't honest with him. We were "together" a couple of times the first week of August and those times he has some trouble...lets just say i'm not sure i even needed to be there..quick...so i believe that is all he went in complaining about..." i think i might be depressed because" so he took a written test...passed because i'm sure he faked most of it and besides...he was happy due to OW. so he got viagra instead...to help him so he wasn't uncomfortable with her. As far as the obsessive behavior before hand..i don't know...things between us were fine until june of this year. He is not on an Antidepressant right now...although he keeps saying he is "sick minded" i tell him...well call your Dr. but i believe he doesn't want to because he knows it will clear things up and he will have to end the A. He called alot this weekend...how do i still be firm...i am his only friend. but he is still seeing her. last night i definitly saw what seemed remorse in him...he came down for a bit...am i just in denial...maybe he really is finished with me and i can't accept it. he hasn't called this am..so i am a bit down...

NTL..one other thing...my husband suffers from severe situational depression, our bills got way out of hand 5 years ago and this same exact thing happened. I don't know if it worse this time, but it seems to be. He isn't paying any bills hardly, still hasn't paid our house. his mom is really riding his case about it because she gave us the money to catch it up. he went out this weekend and bought about $200 worth of clothes for our son. guilt i'm sure because he has been blowing it on himself or her. I am really down today..i just don't know what to do...this weekend we talked alot...but i feel like i caved and when he needed our friendship he got it...when he needed her..he went out with her. He doesn't ever ask to see our son much...i just don't understand. he will come by and visit for 15 mins or so and then leave and he calls all the time..but if he picks him up from preschool...he will only keep him an hour or 2 and then leave him with his mom to go out.. he had gotten better about not leaving but seems to have gotten worse again. is this mainly depression or is it just obsessed with the OW and the A? my best friend feels like he isn't "in love" with her, that he is just obsessed with her. she said i am really going to have to put a stop to his calls and coming down or he will just keep on doing this. but i feel if i say anything harsh to end them...he will run the other direction and think i am horrible...and feel like "why would i want her" i don't want to push him closer to her, but then again i am starting to really resent him. I hear "i would never ever hurt you that way again" so many times it makes me believe i'm crazy for ever believing in him..although i know he was sincere at the time he told me. i don't want to ruin anything especially if the depression is playing a large part. but i am getting really tired of him treating me and our son like this ...especially our son. he doesn't deserve a part time father. the way he was with him before this...once he hits reality...his actions will kill him at how he has treated our son. any advice??? what should i do?

You will really need to examine to what level you continue to be his emotional security blanket while he is still involved with OW. Your prior posts tell me that you understand a lot of this stuff, so I won't say too much - just remember, don't get clingy and come off as desperate. You can tell US that you are a bit down when he doesn't call, but for heaven's sake don't let him know it!

Jaysmom, you are not his only friend. He has OW. If he thinks she is his soulmate, then perhaps he should be forced to rely on her for his conversation needs?

What do you think?

i know your right...i just don't know how to go about it. with our son its difficult and with the fact he is next door also. i can see improvement when i'm tough...but also at times i feel i see some signs...when i'm nicer...i'm going crazy. i have one friend telling me get papers, get child support so you don't have to worry about the house..etc. but i feel if i do then that will just make him angry and he will comply out of anger...(this i have witnessed so far) so i don't think that is the right road. He calls everyday. yesterday he did not, but he told me this am he was going to last night but we had all the lights off and he didn't want to wake us (plus his mom said the same thing..)so he calls first thing this morning...i am nice but firm...i asked him today (don't know why except that i am getting fed up)if he still thought he was "sick minded" (he hasn't said that in a while, but i wrote in my prayer journal i was tired of hearing him say it he should do something about it...yes he reads my journal, at least once a week when he sneaks by and we are gone..did it in front of our son once)anyway...i asked him if he really felt that way? he didn't answer...i told him that if he didn't love me and thought he loved OW, fine, reenforced that i loved him, and all i wanted was to work on the marriage, but i needed to do something for myself for a change...then told him...i would not stand back and let him continue treating our son the way he is. i said you are putting her/it/or whatever above time spent with him and i won't allow you to hurt him that way any longer so get help. silence. nothing said. subject was changed. do you think that was okay...?
i may have blown it somewhat though...when i dropped our son off this morning he really cried hard...then he went to the window of his preschool to wave as i drove by and he was so sad faced...KILLED me..i started crying...talking to God as i do 24/7 saying...i just can't do this anymore...i have to go to work...etc...and my friend called...she said are you okay...i said no..and she said i had a feeling you were not so i called. she suggested i call him and just tell him about our son..so i did. he didn't answer but i just left a brief VM saying i just wanted to speak to him a sec. about our son..(she thought if he got the message..it might really upset him esp. if he was with OW) about 2 hours later..he called but i didn't answer. i hope i didn't blow it by calling.
i am not sure i am doing anything right to blow. if you have any suggestions on how to go about me cutting him off..please...send my way. i just don't know what to say, when he starts talking about his day, i just listen...how do i be firm, putting in his mind he lost the friendship right when he left for her, but still be loving, without seeming cold,hard and unloving? i just want to do the right thing...i think i am so far..but i feel i am at a crossroad and don't know which road to take. thanks for your ears/eyes! God bless.

Jaysmom, this is a hard part, isn't it?
I guess from the MB perspective, reread Plan A material, and run your best Plan A.
Dobson and some others at this point seem to run more of a Plan B - writing the Plan B letter, avoiding or eliminating contact. It's hard to know exactly what to do. I think the best course of action varies from situation to situation, person to person, and is a lot of timing it right. For example, a Plan B in the MB plan which is done too early can turn into Plan D!

I don't think you blew it by calling him about your son. That is SO HARD.

By "get papers" does your friend mean file a legal separation or divorce?

Wow, I didn't realize he was living right next door. With his Mom? Is that correct? THAT is weird, isn't it - not exactly together but not exactly separate - neighbors?

I don't know that you SHOULD be cutting him off; just be aware of the "cake-eating" situation that happens, and monitor it so that you know how long it's going on and when it may be time to go to Plan B later down the road. It is okay to talk to him in Plan A, no love-busting, but I would be careful about asking him if he feels he is sick-minded, or making mistakes, etc. Just lay down the law from YOUR perspective - I love you, I want to work on our M for us & DS, I have been thinking about the areas where I have failed us (list them when applicable to him), but I cannot abide a painful love triangle. Marriage involves two people, monogomous and faithful. I think that is all okay to say. But I thought I was having great success pointing out to my WH how immoral and hurtful to everyone his conduct was... turns out telling him that WAS NOT what made him end the A and come home. Me CHANGING and realizing my EN's, LB's and his EN's and drawing the appropriate relationship boundaries (refusing to stay married to someone who continued to cheat on me month after month after month) was what brought us back together.

What do you feel God telling you to do? How is He leading you? Patience? Talk to WH? Cut off contact with WH? Lessen contact, increase contact???

NTL

Jaysmom,

[color:"brown"]
Romans 8:35-39
Can anything ever separate us from Christ's love? Does it mean he no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or are hungry or cold or in danger or threatened with death? (Even the Scriptures say, "For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep."[l]) No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and even the powers of hel[ can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.


[/color]

NTL.. something was very different in me this morning. I never could get out of my head the money he spent on our son's clothes (at least $175 ) but for some odd reason it never came out of our account. he has no CC's and could NOT get one due to his credit. I just could not let it go. he did not have that much cash..and besides i check our checking daily and he hasn't been taking any out. Long story short. i believe OW bought clothes.
When i woke up this morning..i don't know what was in me. i prayed and prayed and i felt nothing in me, no hope for our marriage. i felt as though...i was done. why i suppose that is what God needed me to feel. so i did what i felt i should do. Got the bag with our son's new clothes, walked up to his mothers house, and asked for a receipt. Of course...he couldn't seem to find it. strange since he just bought them, it wasn't in the bag, and there was a ton of clothes. anyway i very nicely placed the bag down and told him...his son didn't want them he wanted a father. told him to stop buying him stuff out of guilt and be his dad. He did not get angry or anything. Just stood there. He did say "i thought you told me to buy him some clothes" ( i didn't, i told him once when he went out on one of his excursions with OW instead of buying for himself or her why didn't he buy something for his son)
long story short...i told him "your right...the marriage is over" i then went into..." i love you, i have only wanted to work out our marriage... but you don't seem to want to. Again i told him i was tired of seeing him choose her over our son" said a few other things and he just stood there. didn't even try to deny her today...but didn't say anything. I left at that. Since then...he has called me 3-4 times this morning. i haven't answered. my best friend thinks he is probably scared. He was suppose to keep our son today because he is off...but he is "sick" (never stopped him before) he is going to be with OW today...gut tells me. So my friend said don't answer, don't talk to him, he is just trying to feel you out...so he can feel better about what he is doing...she said let the last thing on his mind be you telling him..your done. let him worry.
I feel like God has been trying to tell me by you, my 2 best friends...to be tough and i have tried...but i think he has made me feel this way because...i haven't been tough enough. Now i'm armed and ready. i feel really good. Because...why else would he have called so much...? i have never said the marriage was over...think i may have scared him a bit? and i left angry. i know i am suppose to be loving...well i have been...maybe with my H, i need to be hard, tough, ...not cold, but finished. Make him have to work to win me back. Because really...he is going to have to if he wants me. i feel really good...i do. tomorrow may be different...but i did okay right? any other suggestions on what i do next?

NTL...just one more question...how do WS get in that state of mind? I mean...how do they stay there in the "fog" what exactly is going on that they think its okay? and why is it so hard to get them back to reality? I remember before when he "came to" so to speak...he was totally devestated and couldn't tell me why he did what he did. This time with our son...when reality hits...he will just be totally killed. that scares me some. Reality will hit right? at some point?

Jaysmom,
Well, you've gone & done it now, haven't you? I think because you are praying and using God's timing I just wouldn't think to second-guess what you have told him today. I think you are doing great. I'm excited for you! I KNOW - this is very scary, isn't it? Wow. BUT, I have a feeling I might be seeing you on the Recovery board soon!

Why do WS get in that state of mind? Because an A is an addiction, it causes justification and rationalization beyond the scope of what a person can even imagine! Addictions cause people to make poor choices because of the way the addiction makes them FEEL.

Your WH hasn't REALLY thought through losing you. NOW you have just caused a major crisis for him (this is good). NOW he has to realize that you may REALLY be done, and his mind is REELING. He's angry, confused, and has especially just been caused a very worrisome event in which he realizes "Oh MY GOD, this isn't just up to me???? SHE might LEAVE ME???" and it can definitely lead to "What have I done???"

In my experience, which is all I have to go on here, in a day or two or three your WH will possibly be ready to work on the marriage. Possibly. That is what happened with us. THIS is the point where the "power" shifts and you have all the control where before you had none. It is critical to place the right demands on him at that time. Those demands should be:

1. Complete, radical honesty about the affair to you - to include reading about withdrawal feelings from an affair
2. No Contact with OW - ever again
3. A NO CONTACT letter written by him to OW, stating that the affair was a mistake, he didn't love her, doesn't love her, he hurt you and your son, he is sorry for all of it, and he never wants to see her or hear from her again and intends to try to repair his broken marriage
4. Marriage counseling, (Christian, pro-marriage counseling), to include Emotional Needs and LoveBuster assessments per MB!
5. Pastoral support and counseling
6. Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) understanding on all accountability measures taken
7. Anything else that is a deal-breaker for you if it doesn't happen (this may include open email accounts, transparent lifestyle, cell phone passwords, other things...)

If he is not willing to agree to these things, then you hit the nail on the head "hard, tough, ...not cold, but finished." That is your new demeanor until he comes crying, begging to do ANYTHING to save your marriage. So when do you take his calls? When God tells you to. How do you respond? How God tells you to.

And you know what, read your last couple of sentences... "I know I'm supposed to be loving, well I have been, maybe with my H I need to be hard, tough..."

I think you've been reading your Dobson! "Love Must Be Tough" - sound familiar? I think you are a very good student of Dobson. I know it isn't classic MB Plan A/B, but Dobson's methods have saved a lot of marriages also, and don't differ too much from MB.

God wants your marriage saved, I truly believe that.

Keep posting,
NTL

Anything new???

HI! i spent the weekend at my sisters 5 hours away, so i haven't been able to get on here. of course after all that happened earlier with me telling him it was over...he started calling again...and it is SOOOOO hard to not talk to him, especially with our son. the day after, i told him if he was so finished with me...to get the ball rolling and do something about it...i told him i would not pay for something i never wanted...i told him again i loved him and wanted to be his wife. he didn't say anything. He hasn't said much about us at all, but i have been gone. he came down to visit last evening with our son and talks to me like we are best friends, but he doesn't ever show any signs of wanting to be "with" me...if that makes sense. sometimes he gets angry with me over nothing, and i calmly say..."why are you so hateful to me? i haven't done anything" he changes the subject to be nice again. I am still very confused. i don't know which road to travel. I have been praying alot and getting discouraged in my prayers, although i know God is working...his time is not my time, but i feel so weak. i worry about how this is affecting my son. myself. I really believe if my H would get on medication (AD) he would be fine, but i can't make him call the Dr. i want a quick fix, but if i get that, it will only happen again eventually. Any suggestions on what i should do?