It doesn't matter how old & scanky the OW is... the addiction is the way that relationship (that FANTASY relationship) makes him FEEL. It's very addicting.



None of us handle things perfectly. Not one of us doesn't have regrets about things. But your H has made his choices, he cannot blame you and you shouldn't blame yourself. Learn from your past, and do better when you know better. That's all any of us can do.


Sometimes that IS all you can do is pray. However, I also think there are tangible things you can do to move things along to break the fence-sitting, cake-eating cycle. Things became immediately clear for my H when I filed for divorce. Even though he told to me get it over with & do it if I was sure, when I really did it he was angry, shocked, and very very surprised.

God gives us free will, and your WH is using his free will to make sinful choices right now.
[color:"brown"]
James 1:12-17
God blesses the people who patiently endure testing. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. And remember, no one who wants to do wrong should ever say, "God is tempting me." God is never tempted to do wrong, and he never tempts anyone else either. Temptation comes from the lure of our own evil desires. These evil desires lead to evil actions, and evil actions lead to death. So don't be misled, my dear brothers and sisters.

Whatever is good and perfect comes to us from God above, who created all heaven's lights. Unlike them, he never changes or casts shifting shadows.
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[color:"purple"] James 1:5-8
If you need wisdom--if you want to know what God wants you to do--ask him, and he will gladly tell you. He will not resent your asking. But when you ask him, be sure that you really expect him to answer, for a doubtful mind is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. People like that should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. They can't make up their minds. They waver back and forth in everything they do.
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In all likelihood because he thinks he has real feelings for OW. He knows he has real feelings for you. He thinks you won't be able to forgive him if you know the truth. He thinks you are better off without him. He knows you deserved better than this.


Well, this BF so far has proven herself to be a smart cookie, so I'm inclined to think she is making a good argument. HOWEVER, I would need to know a lot more about what is at stake for you leaving your home as far as if there were eventually a divorce or legal separation. I would not want you to do anything that compromises your legal standing with your home. HE was the first to abandon the home, but ... can you just stay at your Dad's a lot without technically MOVING there??? Just an idea, I don't know how practical? Are you financially afloat with all this going on? Can you afford the home? If you DID divorce, would you stay in the home? All considerations... but I would like you further from WH and out from under his eye all the time. Can't do a Plan B of any kind with him living next door.


I don't know Jaysmom... often it happens I think when the WS really thinks (REALLY BELIEVES) they are losing everything and the choice is no longer up to them. Not just rhetoric, but action.

So now that Christmas is over, you are still considering a conversation with OWH I hope?

My best,
MSA

Jaysmom [/quote]

I had a really deep discussion with him this morning. He came to our house today to watch Jay. For some odd reason i was encouraged about that, i guess because....well he is wanting to be in our home. He has come down every evening for about 2 weeks now. Length he stays longer and longer. We become more comfortable with each other each day.

My other BF (i have 2, this one's H..WH himself at one time)told me that her H thinks...the roles between me and OW have reversed. Now H feelings are changing for me, getting back to what they were, and feelings for OW are drifting. He said...he knows he doesn't want to lose you...but (as you have said) he is afraid of telling the truth, so by continuing with OW...he has somewhat of a security...he isn't losing everything. He can still have her...with no strings....basically...not letting one go without a sure thing on the other side. Makes sense i guess. He didn't leave me...until he had hooked her. ????

This morning i felt very led by God to tell him a couple of things. I explained to him...that God had placed some things on my heart and i needed to tell him. I started by asking if he loved Jacob..."yes", "do you want the best for him?" "yes, of course" then i said well...i have worked very hard the last 4 months to hold on to this marriage, to fix, patch what is broken. I said...i have prayed for you like never before...that God will work on you, be with you. "i have stood in the gap between you and God, taking the stones that you have thrown at me over and over, praying God would forgive and speak to you, and not take away what He has blessed you with" (his head down..listening, not responding) then i said, i believe you when you say you love Jay, and want the best...and you know what the best is.

I told him that he doesn't tell me he loves me, but by saying he always will...says you still do. I told him i thought that he down deep did not want to lose me. Anyway...by the end...i just said to him, that God was the only thing he needed. The only fix. The solution. and he is just a Prayer away. I said...He will change your feelings for me, for her and fix everything. I asked him to consider speaking with our pastor or a friend or anyone he felt comfortable with about this situation. He just sat there playing with our cat, but looking very sad. He mumbled okay.

I felt very good about it. As i have said before, my heart knows...God has told me...be patient...i am working. His feelings are changing for me. He is with me everyday. We laugh, joke, and play games with Jay. He seems so much like his old self....but still 100 miles away from himself too. I know he just started the medication, and that should help him with the things swirling around in his head...maybe to clear up...what he sould do. I don't know. It helped before, and since he has started i can see a difference, but it will still be awhile.

As far as leaving my home. We live in NC...you have to be legally seperated for 1 year and 1 month before you can file for divorce. No legal seperation has been filed for. He will not do it. I have said...i will NOT file, because it isn't what i want...but it is what you say you do...i am not paying for something i never wanted...so if the marriage is over...YOU do it. 4 months...NA DA. He refuses. I can't make it on my own at all...way too many bills. He pays for everything, except childcare, my car, and cell. He basically is paying for us to live there...he has said numerous times he doesn't want us to leave. He seems fine with the arrangements, well i guess so. Got his wife right there when he comes back from running around, can see both of us...whenever...but still feels like he is big daddy taking care of things. I could go to my dad's. He is about 30 mins. away, i spend alot of time there anyway, but when we need to come home...is when he comes, or right after. He always comes to our house when he gets in...doesn't call, just comes down.

If i were gone, if he couldn't get me, he would lose it. he says he is calling to check on Jay, coming to see Jay...but he never speaks to him on the phone...and chats with me mostly at home...I NEED THIS TO END!

I really am struggling, with telling OWH...i am really scared! What if dude says "my wife told me you might come by" what if she has made up a crazy story about me, and he just thinks i am looney...I just don't have much evidence. Just August phone records, and her maiden name???enough???? i am a scardy pants. But i need this to be over!!!!

MSA...am i going CRAZY?????

Jay got mad at me in the grocery store the other day and screamed to everyone around...Mom...you are a maniac!!! My child....God Bless!!!

Jaysmom

Hi Jaysmom,
I think the conversation is good, and you have a good handle on how he is playing both sides, stringing you both along, only wanting to bet on the sure thing. The question is, how long will you let that continue?

Even though I was also of the mindset that I didn't want the D and wasn't paying for it, after the relapse & when she was pregnant, and he still couldn't decide, that was it. He was suicidal and still couldn't just end it with her and make it right. Didn't know what he wanted, what to do. "If W can forgive me and not hold this over me for the rest of my life then I want W. If W can't let it go, then maybe I would be better off with OW." Etc. was his thought pattern I think, and the pregnancy complicated it further.

I think talk to OWH; perhaps he has been prepped by OW, but if you are calm & reasonable, what on earth would your motivation be to tell him such lies? He has his own gut feelings and evidence; he can check into whatever he wants. He doesn't NEED to believe you for you to have EXPOSED the affair; if he wants to live in denial there's nothing you can do about that. But you know how such a meeting would eat away at him and make him need the truth.

You aren't crazy, not at all. BUT, you may need to be the one to make a final decision; he probably won't. I wish it wasn't that way, I wish he WOULD decide. But that probably won't happen. These WH's can stay on the fence forever if they have their emotional security blanket with their W, and the alternate Plan with OW.

Much love & peace to you,
MSA

Hey Mrs. STOW...

Yesterday work was slow and i stayed on this site pretty much all day, i posted on GQ about exposing...you may have read. Everyone agreed with you ...do it.

You know about my situation and i look forward everyday to your advice...you will never know how much i appreciate it. I know that God has given you what i needed to hear...so many times...many thanks for your prayer and care.

Yesterday when i went to pick up Jake, my H was being so nice and kind...as usual anymore...as long as i don't mention his running around...we are good as can be. I just cannot live this way another minute longer. I wasn't so nice. We got into a yelling match...him losing the war again because his responses are just plain stupid. He was very nervous and jumpy. basically he is scared sh*tless. Not enough however to end his A. at least i don't think he has.

I don't have any recent proof. He did make that comment on Christmas..."i didn't know there was still anyone" but that could've been trying to throw me off...my guess. I am starting to think....he hasn't told her the things of late. He hasn't mentioned anything about me knowing who she is and that i could tell her H. I don't think he has...because i think she would've ended it with him...being afraid of losing what SHE has with $$$$hubby. and he figures if i tell her...she will leave me. oh poor baby. POS! do you notice how the anger is just taking me over.

why doesn't it make me run to tell OWH? oh...my guess, i am just too darn nice. no honestly i haven't believed God wanted me to, not yet anyway...He has given me everything so far...i don't want to give up on God now. But the last 2 days, i have felt more at peace about telling him. Maybe today...i am going out w/BFs today....We are gonna do some snooping around. We think we know where she may be and plan on following if we are right. Then we will see if she meets up with my H. If so....camera in tow...i will present my evidence to OWH...tonight, if not....i may just speak with him anyway.

i have given H every opportunity to end this and do what is right. he did cry on the phone with me last night...although he would never admit it. He couldn't speak to me ...rather obvious he was upset. I was crying myself...i told him...you know God blessed us 3 years ago with a miracle and look how we have treated it...."our M is over because i spent all your money, and you just woke up one morning out of love with me" yeah...thats really fair to Jay isn't it. i said alot more...he didn't speak. I told him to really pray about his decisions. He hasn't called me today.

i am not surprised that he hasn't ...he again...showed me yesterday how scared he was. He knows i mean business and he knows...i am barely holding on to the rope. i don't know what he is more scared of...losing me or her. I asked him if that was why he wouldn't tell me the truth..."because you are afraid i will leave?" he didn't respond...i asked again and he just mumbled no....but he answered all my other ?'s really mean or yelling at me.

Oh MSA...i just don't know...i haven't felt this way since he has been gone. I realize today...i have held so much hope for us. i have lived off of hope, God's grace, God's love....but i am so weak now...i just don't care. Don't care.

If i expose today...i know he will be angry...but hey...what can he say he is angry about right? "what girl" "what #" "what phone" wonder why he will say he is so angry with me...since there isn't anyone...? hmm...

i am afraid...if OWH kicks her out...they will run off together. But then again...if i don't expose, and it never ends...their relationship will just keep growing.

she told me when i spoke to her once on the phone (right after he left) that she didn't think you should stay together for the kids sake...the other night i couldn't resist asking him..."so hon...what um is OW staying with her family for since you shouldn't stay for the kids...what excuse is she giving you...she staying for her kids? or her H?" which is it? then i said...you are a fool if you thinks she isn't dishing it out to her hubby...he's a man...he ain't gonna go with out IT...so i said..dearest...you are doing her and her H...Hmmmm....

see...i am a peice of work...no conversation we have goes without me throwing a nice spark of my wit in there.

i have to tell you this...because well...i tell you almost everything ...your like becoming my most profound friend ha! but i thought it was funny...

my BF called OW's work the other day (she works at a grocery chain here) anyway... asked for her, oh she is off today...(God really puts these poor dumb people in our situations at the right time..i know He does) this little old lady says Honey she won't be back until next week, she's gonna be manager of the Starbucks (actually she said starbursts he he) that opens in our store next week.

well...i remembered that H had taken our son to grocery store close to our house the other day...it has a starbucks..brand new...and H made a comment that Jay told him we always went to that store...(its new..i don't i stick with the old) i answered him...no just sometimes...i usually go to the old one. long story short when i found out about OW new job...i asked Jay...did Daddy get coffee when he took you to store ...he said yeah...he gave it to me....

long story short...i played with it ....couldn't help it (as i do with everything i have found out) i said to H when he came down...jakey said you gave him coffee the other day...laughs ...yeah....then with my tush in his face ( showing it off ) said...where'd ya get it? ...Starbucks? yeah...why..."did ya get it free?"...no..i had to pay why? "oh...just thought you would...since you have connections..."

he fumbled around uncomfortable...but tell me...i know you may not have thought it was funny...and maybe its funnier when i tell in person...but i thought to myself...HE MUST BE FREAKING OUT. He has to...tell me MSA...He has thought i didn't know anything...he has to be freaking at the stuff i know...right?

anyway...sorry so long today..i am so bored at work...

i will let you know what goes on tonight....take care...jaysmom

ok msa...i am going...i am pretty freaked out right now....i'll keep you posted...probably won't be able to get back on here until tomorrow....pray hard!!!jaysmom

Well? Did you find OWH?

I know it is hard to take the risk of exposing and something happening where he leaves you, but this fence-sitting just cannot continue. And he is much more likely to come to his senses when you have the courage to push the issue.

I appreciate your kind words and hope that I am helping. I had many friends walk me hour by hour to the point of realizing I needed to stand up for myself and take a chance - it didn't happen overnight, it was a process. You can't do it (convincingly) until you mean it and you're ready. I, like you, was scared. But it got to the point where I was more sick of it all than scared. Dr. Phil, "I'd rather you be healthy alone, then sick with somebody else." and (I'm paraphrasing what I remember, how I heard it) ...

"You're not mourning the man you were married to, you're mourning the man you WISH you were married to. If a new suitor came into your life and this was his list: I will lie, I will cheat, I will deceive, I will manipulate, I will be self-serving, I will hurt you, I will hurt your children, I will betray you. How does that list look? Someone you want in your life?"

That show (with MomTo3Boys on THIS Website) inspired me to file for D which ultimately saved my M, and brought the A to a quick end.

Stay strong, I'm praying for you!
MSA

MSA

msa... I DID IT....

i knew when i got up yesterday God was telling me i had to.
after arguing with him for most of the day...He kept saying GO!

so BF in tow ....i went. Her H is the kindest, nicest, Christian man i have ever met. After going in...i asked to speak to him in private...and started out by saying... i am a christian wife who is trying to save her M. After presenting her maiden name (which she gave as her current last name...) was confirmed and her cell...He knew.

Listen to this...He asked me if my H is a vendor...i said yes....He knew...BUT.....

a couple to 3 months ago...he said she become very upset at a church service...he thought it was the service...but afterwards she was still very upset....He asked what was wrong? He said...by that point i knew...he said his gut told him...i said...been there! He said he asked if it was another man...she said yes. She said things had gone "to far" with a vendor from work....but said....it was over.

they went to speak with their pastor about it ....and he said since then everything was fine. I gave him a few more reasons why i thought it was still ongoing...but told him i had no recent proof (this man was SOOOOOOOOO nice, never angry, defensive,...just willing to get to the bottom of it)

so right there in his office...he called his cell company. I told him i didn't have H new # he had changed but...he called anyway ( thank goodness) anyway...he got # and she had called like 7 times within an hour while at home with him (pretty devestated at this point but he is holding together well, quoting scripture...etc.)

He calls #....yep...my Hubby answers...he asked "who is this" my H said...Who is this? he answered very nicely by giving his name...(don't you know...i wish i could've been there to see my H face when he heard that) Her H mouthed to me...is it him? i got his phone and said...John? he said...WHAT?????? Couldn't resist at that point and said... " i told ya baby i would get ya" i know probably shouldn't have but did. So then....Her H calls her in front of me...asked me to be quiet. He said... a very nice lady came by my work today ...by the name of.... and immediately she started crying. He talked...and then asked ...is that the vendor we talked about....


she said...yes...he said i thought it was over...she said...it was but it started up again...the whole time...just bawling. she kept apologizing to him...and he kept saying ..."don't apologize" (i was like gagging at that point...but hey...he just found out...)

long story....but i just gotta tell you... he prayed, told me he would talk to her after their daughter went to bed, and give me a call when he had any info...i haven't heard from him...but...i am good. He was very nice.

then BF called my MIL to have her take jake out...i was little worried what H would do...i knew he probably wanted to kill me ( even though he isn't that way at all...this was bad to him...you never know) then she called my H...

shockingly...H was fine. this weirds me out some. He wasn't fine...but not angry...a little bit mean but only at times. she said...do you want to talk to her...he said not right now...i will be home later. she asked if he would hurt me...he did get mad....and said...you know better.

anyway....i spoke to him and he just totally acted like things were normal...first thing...do you need anything from walmart...i just was like...you are so mental...no WE NEED TO TALK... after a few he said... i will be home in a bit.

he comes home. just me there, jay at MIL's. walks in...i could tell....very ashamed, but very defensive too. Still denying everything. I said...john...SHE CONFESSED...I WAS THERE. then he would admit...well we only went out to eat a couple of times...no sex. I said...you are lying. He followed me through the house as i packed me and Jay up to leave. anyway...after alot of my anger, tears, and him just following me, acting ashamed and unsure of himself...but NOT broken and not being honest...i yelled at him about 10 times to "get out" because he was killing me, but he wouldn't even move off of the bed...ever..i said...IF YOU WANT TO COME HOME YOU HAVE TO COMPLY TO THESE THINGS. i gave him the list....he took it, read over it, and kept it.

He asked for SAA book and i told him i would give it to him. at times i thought he was going to cry...but he wouldn't give up his secret cell.

I know i wasn't expecting him to do all he did, he wasn't angry at all...everyone was actually shocked he did what he did...and i myself didn't expect his feelings for her to end right then...i didn't even expect to talk to him for several weeks or days...but right there he was.

THEN...today he goes by to see BFH again...and he called and told BF that even though all that happened ...H still maintains he is finished with me. I know it is probably defensive or is it? why did he act the way he did with me, ask for the book, take my "contract" with him...tell me he was considering talking with our pastor...follow me around, act sad and ashamed if HE IS DONE WITH ME? OH I AM SO....GOING CRAZY!!!!!

i left today to be gone for the evening...he called this morning saying he would come down and see jay...i just cannot handle that anymore...he hasn't called to see where we are or anything...he probably isn't sweating it right now...but my plan is NC with him at all until i just have to. i cannot live this way. He is abusing me mentally. he makes me think he wants me, can't live without me because he can't let me go, but to his friend...oh i am finished.....why did he even go by to see him today anyway? He even told me he needed to talk to him...and he would...so why...does he not have the b*lls to tell me himself he is done?

oh MSa..sorry for so long... i need advice...what is this...i know i shouldn't expect him to just want to be with me overnight...reality if i hadn't have gone yesterday, today he would've gotten up and called, seen, done her the same as the last 4 months...and her H is so nice ...maybe the A didn't end...although i believe with her being honest with him before about my H and her being upset...it will end..

please send some help my way...thanks...Jaysmom

WOW! I am so impressed with you! I have to still talk to OWs boyfriend and i am scared to death. I wish you were here to go along. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I will be taking someone with me but thinking about it makes me sick. I hate to also think of the hurt for the BF. not to mention that I know nothing about him and he may go nuts on me. I am so proud for you. I know it hurts but what a difference it is to handle things exposed as opposed to those things kept in the dark. That is when I go bananas! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

jaysmom; would it make sense to point out marriagebuilders to OWH?

What a great idea! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm so proud of you! GOOD JOB! Sounds like you got lucky that OWH was so understanding and supportive; bodes well for their chances of recovery, which in turn makes your chances or recovery better as well.

I think your H will come around; but I would severely caution you about spending too much time talking to him until he is willing to comply with your terms. You gave him the list, he knows what he needs to do if he wants a relationship with you. Don't settle for anything less.

That's all I'm going to say right now because I want to let that sink in for you.

(Except that the only thing he maybe could use from here if OW does indeed end the A is the thread about withdrawal on here - I can post it if he breaks it off with her) No contact at all is the only way for him to go as far as successfully ending the A; there is no way to manage a "friendship" after an affair.

God bless,
MSA

P.S. The Wal*Mart question from him had me laughing out loud!

Also, the only thing I would strongly caution about giving MB info to OWH, is that then you can have OW on here, and your FWH (hopefully F at some point), and then you cannot have that. You can't have OW lurking here; or any communication between OW and your WH obviously; think about whether you might want this to be a tool for your H someday soon, and if there's any chance that OWH and OW are on here, then it really doesn't work.

MSA

You know, I think WS's in this position are actually relieved when the cat's out of the bag. Living a lie for so long is very stressful to anyone that isn't a sociopath. So although he isn't happy about the light this is casting him in, he can now say "it's out of my hands"...

Happy 2006 ...almost...

Well i have to say you and my BF think alike! She told me yesterday...pack a bag and go...go for the long weekend. I just couldn't leave for the whole night though...but i was gone until after 11 pm last night, and i am gone tonight as well.

My cell phone was cut off today...and my home phone is cut off. ( the home has been off for 2 months...the cell he knew was going to be) but...this morning when he tried to call and it was off ...he freaked and made his mother come down to "check on us" "he was worried"...she told me before she even pulled out of our drive he had called her back "are they okay?" This from a man who swears to his BF he is thru. He wanted to know what we were doing...she told him...she didn't know. I think it will do him good to not be able to call to "check in on us" all the time...so he doesn't have to sweat it. i think he needs to worry where we are, what we are doing...whether i am leaving him.

i hope that is what i should do. I am a little worried. I am afraid he will claim i am taking Jacob from him...but why should i sit around waiting for him...HIS choice to leave not mine. And of course i am afraid that the A may still be going on. who knows, she kept it from her H this long without him finding out....what if he is a big push over and buys what ever she says?

I tried to get my H to give me his "phone he doesn't have" the other night when this happened...it started vibrating, so i KNOW it was her...but maybe her H made her call to tell him it was over...he would've been there at that time...and i expect she would do it whether she meant it or not...anyway...he wouldn't give it to me....he started his "what phone" crap with me again. since then i have hardly spoken to him...i did give him a heartfelt long...long...long...talk but again told him...he must agree to everything on the list...or no good. after that...we have only spoken 1 time. but because I am sticking to my guns and he can't get ahold of me.

I am sure he thought he could just come on down tonight and hang out...as he thought he could last night. His mom said "are you going down to your house" he said...pouting..."no their not home...she said they might not be" so tonight...i am sure he thought i would definitely be there...well guess what..

I hope that i am not doing the opposite of what i hope to be. He needs to think i am gone...that he lost me...he needs to realize he really screwed up BIG time.

I feel like my walk with God is weak right now. I feel weak myself...this morning was HARD. i cried uncontrollably and in front of Jake, but i have held it together for 4 months and thursday was a relief for me...but yet...i think down deep i thought maybe he would come home crying and begging. It almost feels like he just left again...the hurt is so intense. I just need an end...something good...soon.

I know God never puts more on you than you can handle...i just keep wondering...am i doing something wrong, not following God like i should, i feel 1000 miles away from Him, but i don't know what to do. I pray. pray. pray. feel like He doesn't hear me at times. This morning while praying...i couldn't even speak. I am just losing it. I hope i see a change for the better soon.

this evening i am okay...the thoughts of going home later kind of sicken me...but i suppose it is normal. it seems like looking back over the last 4 months...God was just living for me. i think back...and i know...there was no way i could've gotten this far without God just completely taking over my life for me. But now that things are where they are...why do i feel so horrible?

Oh well. maybe this week will be better.

and on a lighter note....the Walmart thing from my hubby...that is typical...he avoids anything and everything if he thinks it is going to turn heated...He has always been a big goof.

Jaysmom

Jaysmom,
It's okay that you don't know what to pray for and that you feel your walk with God is weak at the moment; we can't be on the mountaintop all the time... just knowing and believing and trusting God is there, and doing His will, is what is important. To be obedient, that we seek to be told in the end, "Well done, good and faithful servant."

And as far as He doesn't hear you? He does. In his letter to the Romans, Paul talks about not being able to speak during prayer - that is normal. Sometimes the grief, the pain, the hurt is just to great for words, the help we need is just to hard to express.
[color:"brown"] Romans 8:26-27

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
[/color]

Things are going to be okay. I know you were hoping for an overnight miracle or reaction from your WH. Maybe that isn't what is best for him or you right now; leave it in God's capable hands, and let His peace hold you the way He has thus far. Listen to "Jesus Take the Wheel" by Carrie Underwood; I love that new song - even if you don't like country, but you're down south right?

MSA

MSA,

you know i think it is so weird. About a month ago my H asked me if i had heard that song, he said he had seen the last part of the video and really liked it. Made me curious so i had to check it out. I felt like he wanted me to. Then i just LOVED it. It was my life at the moment. then the night all of this took place...i was crying and told him how God had lived for me...

that one night driving home...(before i had heard that song) i was crying so hard i couldn't see...and i said "john it was like the song said...Jesus take the wheel...he had to because i couldn't" he didn't say anything.

Last night...i came home...i turned my headlights off because i saw he had been to the house...hoping to see us...he left the lights on for us. He couldn't call me as you know...so i hope this is good medicine for him. Now he is alone with only himself.

His mom came back down this am. she said he kept getting up checking to see. He told her to wake him up (even though he is hardly sleeping) if we called or came in. I just felt it best to distance my self for a day or two. i will probably have to see him tonight. He called her again this am and asked her to "check" on us.

what is all of that about MSA? he seems to really need us, want us...but at the same time, not. He tells his BF he is thru, but gives me reason to think he isn't. Was it only pride talking to his friend or is he only wanting me to think we have a chance...????

I called OWH this am. He didn't say much at all...but she was there i could tell. He just yes and no'd me. he said there was NC between OW and my H. i told him i was praying for them, he said THEY had been praying for us. My MIL tried calling my H this am on "THE PHONE" but he has changed that # again. so that makes me think he did it because of wanting to continue contact with OW. MIL thinks it was defensive measure, and that he was afraid OWH might try contacting him again. could be...you know i am only going to think the worst...how can i not.

All this time though, he has just been stringing me along. She was NEVER planning on leaving her H...so why was he? He knew that...sometimes i thought he continued with her just to see if he could get her to. then i think...well he never planned on leaving me totally... right now i feel like he must've thought he was really in love...then i think about all the things he did to keep me there. calling me, coming by, giving half promises, getting back on medicine...see i am going crazy. NOTHING MAKES SENSE RIGHT NOW.

but this morning after praying...i don't know if God was telling me this or what...i started thinking...i told MIL that he sacrificed everything for OW. then after praying...i just kept thinking of that...but did he? No not really. He never really sacrificed anything if you think about it. moved out, living next door, Jay and I were there EVERYTIME he wanted to see us or Jay. He never gave anything up...he gave me enough to keep me there...but kept his A ongoing...He didn't did he MSA...He never had to sacrifice anything...I DIDN'T MAKE HIM. I have made this too easy...but i felt like i was doing what God asked me to.

I really feel as though OWH will see to it there will be no contact. I feel like she knows it has to be over or she will lose everything.

So now that my H doesn't have her...will he get out of the fog...is my keeping distance right? (we haven't spoke since friday am...this is at my doing...not his...he has attempted several times...but i have been gone )
will he realize he really loves me...will the feelings for me come back... he goes back to his Dr. 1/11, he is looking forward to it...he got his refill yesterday, he said he was asking her to go up on it. His misery this whole time what has that been...miserable because he couldn't really have her...or miserable because of what he was doing to us...? any take on it?

I will have to see him this evening...should i just keep distance and not say much?

Happy New Year! jaysmom

React how God leads you. Most MB'ers would tell you once NC is established (even if it isn't because your WH wanted NC) he will need YOU to meet his emotional needs and help him thru this period of withdrawal from the addictive effects of the A. The fog will BEGIN to clear, but it takes weeks or months of absolute No Contact with OW for that to really happen.

It's weird, but ending in A is said to be like going off an addictive drug - the chemicals it produces in your brain just make you want it back so badly.

I would say be there for him to talk to, but you share your own feelings too - that he hasn't sacrificed anything for you; you don't know if you can trust him again; he hasn't been honest with you about anything; he says he doesn't love you and wants to end it; you don't know how you feel... etc. "Being there for him" doesn't mean you have to forgive anything before he even asks you to! Indeed, he SHOULD have to work his way back, if you make this too easy for him it can happen again, or the original A can relapse.

Also, he's so curious about your whereabouts because he cares, but also he is probably worried you might do something crazy like take off with Jay and not tell him where you are, etc. He doesn't know WHAT you're thinking at this point!

He HAS to come clean with you, and with God...

Hapy New Year to you too!
MSA

MSA,

i don't know if i believe it is really over for them.. I think OWH is too big of a push over and what ever she says he will believe. please tell me he is not so stupid to believe if it is still on going?

My H said to me...2 nights ago he was not in contact with her. but i believe that like i believe i'll win a million one day. He stayed out a long time last night, and Jay sat at the window for hours watching for him...crushed me. He wouldn't go to bed, and when he saw him come i had to take him to his mothers to see him...maybe i shouldn't have but this is my son...

MSA...why does he continue this? I don't have proof that it is ongoing...and i honestly don't know what my heart is telling me...I am thinking of filing...soon. I don't want to continue seeing Jake suffer because of him.

I know he doesn't know how to act around me, that is obvious...he still hasn't answered any ?'s. He came down sunday...and tried to act as he had been all the time before i exposed.

What do i do? I just simply do not know. I can't keep letting him just hang out without answering anything for me. He has blamed me for everything, he hasn't aploginzed...well he has but he hasn't. What can i do. I want him to miss and want me...but how do i? I have been so hurt...and he wants to sweep it under the rug. Remember it's over according to his BF...but he has never told me....

can you see i am very confused today. Very hurt and just want this to end. If they are trying to continue...will God reveal it again soon? they neither want to completely lose their spouses...but yet they don't want to stop either. I guess i feel it is still ongoing...because my H hasn't been angry at me once. Only when he said he was thru to his BF, that was the worst i heard... i guess i expected him to really fly off the handle at me...that is why i think it may still be going on...i have no reason to think it...and OWH said there wasn't but who knows

Help...any advice today...my prayers getting weak! Really hurting and wondering what God is up to?

jaysmom

P.S. there can never be complete NC...he see's her 2-3 days at work....that may have been what happened when she broke down at church...they tried or she tried to end it but kept seeing him.

Oh yes there can!!! My FWH quit his job. Your WH will need to do the same; or arrange it so that he never calls on her (he's a supplier, right?) New territory or something needed... otherwise new job.

It bothers me that he hasn't come clean with you. I think the 180 list was custom made for you. You have done Plan A. You can't do Plan B because he lives next door and because of Jay. The 180 is a last-ditch effort. A lot of it you might have been doing anyway, but have you done #12, 14, 17, 25, and most of all #27???

That's your homework! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[quote]
The 180 Approach

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from their family members to convince them they are making a big mistake
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

http://www.divorcebusting.com./<br />
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