Hi JM,
I just don't have anything profound to add today... so I'll just say how much I adore SpongeBob and that I hope you had a great party!

MSA

thanks MSA! we just started planning the party we still have a few weeks to go until ...but let me just say...Jay CANNOT wait.

things about the same. H still coming and going. I am starting to just lose it more. I don't know. Am i doing the right thing by just being a friend to him?

nothing seems right. I am not to the point that i want to throw everything out the door just yet, so i am just not ready to move or get any legal papers...i am at a stand still.

Is that okay? I mean everyone thinks...H is easing his way back home. I never wanted him EASING home. I wanted this big ordeal i think. You know the crying the sorrow. But...maybe that will come only later? He WANTS to be with us. My best friend thinks that the A will eventually fizzle out. so does MIL. MIL thinks its close. I think so too...simply because either they commit to one another or the guilt and burden of the A will eventually become to heavy to bear? right? thoughts?

Although i did not want it to just simply fizzle out. I thought it would be dramatic. You know. OMG my wife and child are gone. (and in the end..that may be the case) but seeing how he wants to be with us and him knowing he can't continue with it much longer...leads me to believe he is easing as some say. Is it okay to let him ease back. let me explain what i mean. Can he ease back and then we can work on all the problems? Nothing is coming out the way i am trying to put it on here. I guess i am asking...even though he doesn't want to talk about things, but Wants to be with us...everyday...longer and longer, eventually will the openness come? eventually after spending more and more time with us and less with her is that possibly the ticket for us? is easing in my sitch okay? then later when he knows without a doubt he simply doesn't want to be without us can we tackle the big questions and problems. then move toward counsel? those things? Is allowing him to be around us good? i think maybe in my sitch it is simply due to his severe depression also? feedback?

In the SAA book the example given...the WW didn't really want to come home and in the book it states she was never really sorry or apologetic. maybe my case is very close to the same.

Oh i don't know...just trying to find something that makes since in my screwed up life.

i am starting to lose alot of feeling for him. even the "i know i love him" doesn't seem to be present. now i feel i am living with i just want God's will for me and Jay. Whatever that may be. I always feel God's will is for us to be together so i continue to try and stay strong. Not much in my bank left. really hoping for something good soon.

really dreading the 14th. and 15th...which is my birthday. at least i get them over with in one punch. H always made such a big deal over me on those days. Usually sending flowers...both days...just to make the girls at work talk. ughh!

hope your doing well....CJ--hope your still hanging in there!

thank you both for all the prayers!

JM

Valentines Day really sucks for the separated. No getting around that. Just know that last V-Day my H left me my house key at my request in a card on my pillow. This Valentine's day we celebrate almost a year of no contact with OW and will be going out to dinner, 10 mos fully into recovery.

Easing back into the marriage can happen, but NC with OW is critical. I'm really sorry that exposure didn't yet seem to bring about the desired result of accountability to your H and OW. But don't give up hope that it will. OWH knows and will be on the lookout, whether he wants to be or not I think.

Mostly, remember that God loves you, and your WH, and Jay, and He wants your family whole and healed.

Continue to pray for peace, comfort, direction, clarity, and God's will for you and your WH. I know this time must have cemented your relationship with God, the One who will never cast shadows, bring chaos, or betray your love for Him. Be patient, God's timing is not our timing; He has the whole picture and we do not.

MSA

Hi JM,

How are you and J? Was out of town with the band last wkend, so I couldn't check here. My girls aren't much into spongebob, so I don't get to watch it, but I've heard of crabby-patties...

OK, just my take on these things, again I would say that I'm NO counselor, and you are about a month or two ahead of me here, so I can tell your frustration is coming to a boil. I'm sorry you have to be dealing with this, no it is not fair.

I think your line thought is good, you're really considering all of the angles here, you're very aware of what you are surrounded with... I think that H easing back is OK; to a point. If you want him back, and this is the way that he comes back, then this is what you need to do. You mentioned this is what he did last time. You need to let him, but you don't need to be abused emotionally while he does this, be loving, meet needs, but don't take his crap. You do NOT need him hurting you about insignificant things, and I suspect that part of him wants to be at home, and part of him is coming unwillingly. You really have to think like HIM to know how to deal with him. Keep sight on what you want, and before you do anything, try to ask yourself,"will this get me what I want?". This helps pull the logic back into your emotions. It helps me.

Don't worry about showing emotion here and there, yes I agree with you, he should be aware of the pain he has caused. YOU don't need to own HIS guilt. Let him feel guilty, he should! It is part of reality, reality IS where you want him. Expect that every time he hurts, he may turn it outward onto you. Don't react back with anger, react later when he is calm, allow him to feel responsible if he hurts you further, give him an extra helping of guilt when he acts this way by staying calm, close your eyes, take your time to think and respond with logical retorts that are respectful to yourself. And he's feeling guilty, I have NO doubt. Let him talk himself into corners, if he'll talk; only HE can find his way out of this...

But remember, you need to make his environment more pleasurable than painful, you must be careful about how often you burst, but there is NOTHING wrong with you being human, after all being vulerable is what promotes intimacy...let him know he can come to you with his feelings.

I'm worried about your feelings for him though...sounds like you're running out of gas sometimes...I don't want you to give up, it seems like you're close to a breakthrough, but it is so hard to say. I know you feel stuck, and now that I've learned more, I agree with MSA, doing Plan B in a Plan A kind of way will not work, it is the psychological impact that works; the jolt!

He fears losing you, it is SO obvious. So I'm thinking Plan B here, but that's SO easy for me to say; I'm unsure of being able to do this myself. But if you want this to work, you need to protect your feelings for him. Read some old love letters, look at some old pictures. (If you can do this without hurting yourself) Remember the man that is in the photos is who you love, NOT the one hurting you now

Is there anything else you can do that will give him a jolt?

Again, until you know, stay in Plan A. But intensify the feelings for him that the clock is ticking. Errantly put wedding pix near his homely hideouts (couch). Pack up all his stuff and put it in a corner for him to see? I read something about doing the 180 treatment somewhere, and act TOTALLY like you're leaving. MSA, you know about this?

Just some ideas, I really don't what will work, help me brainstorm... his fence-sitting is ridiculous. Are you sure he isn't really having the affair with a fence?!

Dunno if this helps, but I am getting restless with my own sitch, just tired, y'know? So I think I'm getting a taste of what you are dealing with. 2mths from now? Oh boy, it will be hard, I told her she is going the lose me, and I've lost the doormat attitude, but I've remained loving. I think I've got some gas in the tank, but she shows me absolutely NOTHING!! Sound familiar? My bandmate went through a divorce due to a WW, he says, when I'm absolutely DONE, I will know. He doesn't think I'm done yet.

I'm dreading the 14th and 15th too. V-day then my 3yr anniversary. I'm don't know what to do, I don't know what she'll do. She has our annvers marked on the calendar!? Huh?

If you're not sure, then you aren't done yet either. Hang in there, but be mindful of your Love Bank. Protect your marriage BEFORE you protect your WH right now.

Don't try to make sense of your screwed up life. This is irrational. Period. You've read my story, how the he!! does it make sense?! Rational thinking is NOT for WS's. Don't get discouraged when reasoning with them makes you feel crazy, YOU'RE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So we gotta crack these NUTS, help me brainstorm... Oh, and what is your take on V-day, I don't know what to plan, do you?

Take care of yourself, give Jay a big hug, and love the colossal effort that you are putting forth, you are doing the best things you can do, you ARE RIGHT, and someday you'll look back on this with admiration for yourself.

Hi MSA!!

Cheers.

Eureka! I think CJ has finally figured out your WH!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MSA

Morning guys!

thanks for the posts! i thought there was something about that fence and my ol'wayward!

you know its going on the 6 month mark. here i sit. Am i the fool? cause i love my H. Love my family. i want the best for Jay...obviously. but AM I?

my best friend told me very kindly again last night. "i'm telling you...pack a bag for a day or two and it will do a world of good!"

I am a wuss! i am scared. What if it doesn't do any good? the whole exposure thing has me in an uproar! and really...it probably did do good, but i just am too close to see it. after exposure is when i saw the biggest change in him. the constant "needing" to be with us. the worry of "where are they" at times.

He doesn't seem interested in me intimately at all. what is up with that? is it because he is getting it from her? he did almost agree with me last week when i said to him...you don't want me but you don't want anyone else to have me. He didn't say anything but his expression was enough. No he definitely doesn't want anyone else to have me. He changes the subject QUICK if i go there.

I don't want to end in D. He doesn't want that. but i am struggling with WHAT. what is it i can do. there has to be something that will make an impact on him. I don't mind him wanting to come home...and if easing in is his way then okay...BUT...huge butt here...I want him to KNOW what he played with. OUR LIVES ...he gambled our M, family, our son. I want him to understand. i feel if he doesn't have that...he will never realize his wrong.

we brushed it under the rug before. He never admitted to anyone. never lost me. Never had to really fear losing me. He had his guilt which was hard on him and worried i would find out...but ...when i did...we talked about it. that was it. Nothing else. He never had to face what he did. Maybe thats why we are here today. He doesn't really believe he has lost anything. at times he worries but...then i am always there.

but i just don't know. Leaving or filing has never seemed to be right in my head. i wish i could think of something that would slap him with reality.

I know you guys are getting tired of me. MSA has said all she could. i know when you filed it made the difference. but i just don't know if i can do anything right now. will i feel differently, will i know when its time? but.. i don't want to wait until everything is dead inside of me for him. again...am i the fool? i just want to do what i can for our M, for Jays benefit.

yesterday standing in the grocery store, looking at the cereal boxes...it hit me like a ton of bricks. He thinks I am a choice. really thinks Jay and I are a choice. just like a box of cereal. picks us up for a couple of hours a day and places us back on the shelf. (this coming after he told me earlier in the day..he just didn't know what he wanted...meaning our M...me and Jay). How do i get up and still love him? I was a choice 12 years ago when he asked me to marry him. Not now. I am his w. a loving, caring, forgiving, w. She is M. not planning to leave...but he seems fine with it. He doesn't seem to want her longterm...

so what the heck? I am a choice?????? POS!!! see how the anger just takes over sometimes! HA!

I wish i just knew how to make an impact without disrupting my son's life all together. seems like there should be something. i wish exposing had've done it. but really i knew before i did it ...it wouldn't end cold turkey ...i didn't really want it to ...because of me that way...but because it died on it's own.


do A's really die a natural death...and how so?


oh..i am rambling...guys thanks for looking in on me...means alot! in one week i will be 33. i feel old. At least i look younger. OW however looks 15 years older than her 40 whatever. there is a silver lining in everything huh?

CJ--i must know something. You play in a band? what do you play? what kind of music? does your W go with you when you play? see i am the jealous type...i just don't know if i could deal with the girls around you!!! interesting.

happy wednesday!!

Jaysmom

P.S. something cute from Jay... in planning his b-day party i was asking what kind of juice,soda he wanted to have for his friends...i said how 'bout orange...he said "mom, God got you a boy who doesn't like orange...your 'pose to know that...Gods 'pose to tell you."
ain't he cute!!!

Hi JM,

Hey I'm not sick of you, I know where your at, heck I had to get my Mom to convince me that I was a good person the other night, it took her awhile too... so I know how demoralizing this is...keep yer chin up!

MSA posts a LOT, supporting lots of people, I'm amazed she gets here as much as she does, quite a soul!

He's not into you intimately right now because that would require him to be vulerable, at he's CLEARLY not into that right now! People don't like to admit they've been ugly, he would need to admit these things if he opens up. DON'T take it personally.

He already knows it's wrong. When he comes around this time don't let him sweep it under the carpet, make him go to counseling and commit to getting this all out in the open. This is only way you can heal, HOW can you rebuild unless you start with honesty, which is needed to lead to trust?

I mean, honesty is one of the basic needs!!! Don't settle for anything less once he is out of the fog!

Again, I live it. This is why I identify with you. Our S's are such closed books, I don't even know if they have ANY freakin' pages! Remember it is them that are hollow...not you, you are simply allowing yourself to feel!

You are not A choice, you are THE choice. This is what he vowed years ago. God does NOT allow us to make second choices, I wish I could remember the recent passage I read. Divorce is considered a sin! The one left standing, in my interpretation is NOT given a choice. Marriage is about joint decisions, you are made as ONE person in God's design.

I know, this line of thought won't work on him...it's for you...

My band plays everything, alot of country but lately ~40% rock. I like metal, Pantera was the thing for me 'til 'ol Dime died... (huh? hehe)

That's the thing, my W met me because of the band, kinda makes for built-in paranoia doesn't it? But I stay in the background, I'm not very showy, just like playing... yeah, there are girls around, if I went to parties and pushed the issue, well....I don't, how would I feel if I knew I caused this type of pain for my girls, for my W?? Couldn't do it, couldn't live with myself. I say this only because I'm AWARE that I could, (as Dr. Harley says, we are ALL wired for it) but it's my responsibility NOT TO! Once, b4 married, W and I had a fight, i was convinced it was over... so I flirted at the next gig, and this girl kissed me out of the blue.(Well, yeah obviously I was to blame too) Whoa! Stopped RIGHT there! My fault, my mistake, just needed an ego boost, I guess. Not what I meant, I learned alot right there... I learned how easy these things happen... my W knows... I wasn't married at the time, it was 4 mths into our dating, but I know it wasn't right...

And yeah, my W is (was?, now she's not so sure...) convinced that I had cheated on her!! Accused me ALL the time just after D-day. Now I know how typical this is of WS's so I just tell her she's plain wrong. Yeah, she's the jealous type, I guess this fueled her suspicions, but why not tell me b4 it ruins things? I think it is just an excuse!

God is 'pose to tell you, keep listening, maybe some time away would be good for you, take a break, let him sweat a couple days, find some quiet, and listen for God. Jay sounds great, remember you've still got him. Hmm, my SD's fav color is orange... and I'm wearing an orange shirt today (xmas gift from W). Jay wouldn't like us...

cheers!

Hi JM & CJ -
Jaysmom, I'm not sick of you! But I am sick FOR you that this is enduring so long... and I think you realize that A's can go on and on and on and on... dying a natural death is NOT something you want to put yourself thru.

First, you exposed and did Plan A.

Now it may be time for Plan B. I really hope you open yourself up to some options like that. Even leaving town with Jay for a couple days. Anything. A letter to your WH. Call Dr. Harley. Something to move him off the fence.

You are so right, you so 'get it' that your H knows you didn't go anywhere and you won't, he knows he will always have you to fall back on. How comfy for him, how shi+ty for you. Sorry, there's just no other way I can think to say it.

If you are OK with waiting this out, it's alright for now doing your Plan A. But realize that it could go on for a long long time.

CJ - you still didn't say your instrument...

MSA

hey guys! we got snow today. yeeha!

not enough to keep me home though! oh well...made Jay happy!

yesterday H must've spent the day with his old, haggardly, nasty, woman. he could've kept our son but claimed he had a meeting and couldn't. yeah right. he came home last night toting a bag full of toys for jay...expensive ones. new game for playstation...etc. He bounced 3 checks last week and spends over $ 100 last night on Jay...right before his birthday. guilt huh?

i tried staying to myself and ignoring him...but that makes him mad. crazy. begs me to hang out with them and then puts Jay up to asking me to play games with them.

I guess i am doing okay...considering. honestly though...what do we have left? i have done my best to keep it together but he just keep using and hurting me. i have to do something. maybe i will take jay to my sisters this weekend

CJ--your too cool. I love rock, country...pretty much everything. I sing around the house...make up stupid songs...one of the things my H used to adore about me. Always loved music and so does my son! maybe i'll come to canada and be a groupee!!!HA!

hey...MSA is right you didn't say what you play. my H bought me a guitar for Christmas last year (2004) cause i always wanted one and i was sooooo happy and surprized! don't know how to play it but it was so sweet.

so what is it you play!

guys thanks for the support and advice! thanks for the prayers! gotta go take care of the patients now!

JM

Oh, yeah, I play guitar! I LOVE it! Oh yeah, I play keyboards a little too, esp at weddings (yeah they're SO MUCH fun these days) I play cheesy seven-steps and stuff on keys with an accordian sound. Yes, believe it, I AM too cool! (Oh well the old ladies always come and talk to me and say what a nice little "orchestra" we have... funny!)

See...I have a ways to go with my listening skills, I got on a rant and forgot to answer your question! HAHAHA Let me review your Q's...

No W doesn't go, used to, but now she just watches the kids and won't go anywere, even with other people... I've been trying to get her out of this habit ever since we moved in together...

We have a tune on the radio in Canada, I think one station in the States is playing it...called"what I wouldn't give", if you heard the lyrics, you'd laugh, it describes my life... we're recording on a new one called,"Road to Redemption". FIGURES. HA! We gotta pick different songs!!!!

Anyway, hope you're doing alright...dunno what to say, ignoring him makes him MAD? That's a GREAT sign. Relish it. Use it, if it helps reel him in, sabotage things when he demands a little, intrigue him. Then spend the time with him on your terms, when YOU want, make him WORK to get you, this is a skill that he ought to practice...just a thought! This is a much more constructive thing than angry outbursts...

You still are inspiring! Keep exploring the different things you might do... your discipline is just amazing...I still concerned though about you losing your feelings...

How can you rock this boat?

Oh, in case I forget, happy B'Day!!! (15th, right?) NO YOU'RE NOT OLD! Good grief...women...

l8tr JM & Jay!

Hey guys!

Hope everyone had a decent Valentines Day. CJ hope things went well for you...MSA...i KNOW this year was much better for you.

CJ just caught up on your thread. Hope your hanging in there. i just want you to know that everything i read...seems so much like my life. Strange isn't it. How so many people have such similar lives. Your W and my H are just so much alike. Not wanting to face anything. i can see them both now...standing in a corner with their eyes squeezed tightly shut hoping and praying EVERYTHING would just disappear and life would be normal for them again. But they just don't seem to understand...doesn't work that way. THEY have to eventually own up to THEIR mistakes and THEIR wrongs and FACE reality, or living as they are just may eventually take it's toll on them.

My H didn't even mention Valentines day to me yesterday. Of course he spent the evening with us, as usual. He did buy a card for jake to give me...that was pretty big for him i think. I did the same for him but i also bought him a card from me just to add some extra guilt on him. Worked too! he sat on the couch all sad acting. good!

He still comes down daily...each day spending more and more time and relaxing a bit more. He bought us supper and brought it home twice in the past few days...something he hasn't done in the past. I haven't said much of anything to him lately. Trying not to. everytime i open my mouth i LB. but i haven't been a push over either. i grabbed his arms and pulled him close to me Monday night and made him look me in the eye. I asked him what he was doing, he answered his normal goofy self...having dinner. I said..."you tell me you come down here to see Jay...what about me?" before he avoided that ? totally. this time he was looking at me and very softly said..."why else do you THINK i come down here?" i asked him to look at me and tell me if he was trying and he looked me in the eye and said..."what do you think?" but he was sweet about it. that was as far as i took the conversation. thought it best to leave it there for now.

When i don't say much and just show love to him and kindness...my gosh you can read the guilt on his face. I did mention to him that same night i did not plan on sharing him with OW any longer...that it was almost 6 months and i am more than fed up with things...then threw in HIS usual remark...by adding...HE was really making me mental!

Oh well...i just keep hanging on. One of the Doc's i work for got a kick out of my ringer on my phone the other day.."keep me hanging on" story of my life huh?

My H came down this morning and helped me get Jay ready for school. did this yesterday too. Helped me get his V-day party stuff together. He DID wish me a Happy Birthday today! Just as we were leaving last thing he said to me...probably spending the day with OW...but i am sure it will not be pretty! He just seems to be eat up with guilt these days...this is good right?

CJ--Hope your anniversary goes well for you! I will keep you in my prayers! and thank you for wishing me a Happy Birthday! You are just too cool! I've never known anyone famous before and now i can say i do -sort of! HA! Would love to hear your song...let us know if we can...

ONLY ONE station in the states? come on boy...get it out there...we're waiting! Is it country? rock?

Oh wait...just had a flashback from the movie the "wedding singer" when you were saying you played for little old ladies at weddings! HA!

Guys hope your well! thanks for looking in on me! Gotta take my old butt to work now!

Jaysmom

Happy birthday, Jaysmom!

Yes, Valentine's Day was better than last year. Things DO get better, one way or another.

This limbo state you are in, not knowing & waiting, is the WORST. Use it to get closer to God. He can and will help you thru the days.

MSA

Hi JM,

How are you doing? How did your b'day go? I hope it was OK! I'm sorry your H didn't mention v'day to you... in a healthy relationship, that is abusive, far as I'm concerned... well, I guess healthy isn't where you are... hope your OK, remember, it's him not you, OK? Glad he said"happy b'day?" At least he knows... and he does, HE knows the hurt he's causing, he just doesn't know what to do right now...

Yeah, our S's have similarities. I ask my W wife stuff that I think would just be IMPOSSIBLE for her NOT to consider, and she says,"I don't know" or "I haven't thought about it..." Again their problem, not ours. It's just tough though, how could you NOT consider things that affect the future of peoples' (PLURAL!!!) lives? I think they must to a degree, but don't want to admit it to us OR themselves... much easier!

Hmmm, still doing lots for you hey? Really seems like he needs to keep his options open. Maybe OW is retreating, maybe rejecting him. Either emotionally, sexually, or both. Seems this A never meant enough to her to fully commit, maybe it is him hanging on. I'm SO SORRY to make you think these thoughts, I like to keep things happy!!!

But I still wonder if this is a silver lining, y'know? Her H MUST be watching her like a hawk if he cares at all... him being a Christian, I doubt that they are swingers!

And consider that perhaps there is no physical going on these days, I gotta wonder if this is all fizzling out, sure sounds like it... yeah i hear ya, the not knowing is the worst!

Any way you can find out? More survellience? Just a thought, DON't do it if you can't handle it! Sometimes ignorance is bliss! And I'm still worried that if the news is bad, that'll kill your last bits of determination... please realize I'm biased, I'm at 3.5mths of this, and I'm getting more curious as to what's going on in my life, and thinking of taking action... make sure you do what's right for you!

But I can't help but wonder, what if the news is good? But you know, if you dance with the devil... DON'T GET CAUGHT!!

I don't know if my advice is good at all... the last thing you want to do is make his visits tough... knowing bad info might make your behavior different, whether you know it or not, so take care of yourself, OK?

Sounds like you're doing a good plan A, I'm trying too, not perfect... but doing my best, I don't think that it's bad for WS's to know your feelings here and there, they need to know here and there what they do has consequences... I like to think of it as if a have a valve for it, and I let it out here and there, and then control it...

my W has been so much nicer to me since I broke down last week, but I'm afraid that it is just b/c she knows I'm hurting... and not b/c she feels anything... but y'know... if she wasn't concerned at all, why would she care? If I can build on this concern, then maybe that's the way? Why shouldn't they feel guilty?! But i try to remember, no DJ's, no angry outbursts, but truth is truth, and I don't mind saying things that are indisputable, and I don't mind being confident, what do I have to lose?

What do you think about this? MSA do you have any thoughts? Do we need to suppress everything? I think expressing feelings without LB'ing is necessary for connection. This is what I'm getting from LovingAnyways' posts. Is there truth to this, esp from S's who are "easing their way back"?

I would classify our song as modern country... our new one is definitly in the "Keith Urban" vein... hmmm, not like Pantera at all!! heheh

Of course you bought a card, let him be sad, you're gonna Plan A him to death! woo hoo! Still can't help but think you're turning some corners, be creative with little things that accelerate snagging him at home, I dunno, make him watch Jay at home while you go out, would this drive him nuts? Would he do it? Maybe he needs a taste of your situation, it's certainly NOT too much for you to ask Jay's father to take care of him, is it? Course it's not too much to ask for faithfulness EITHER!! haha

Hope Jay enjoyed Valentine's Day, a little chocolate goes a long way!

"Wedding Singer", eh? Hmmm, never done a barmitzvah b4...

Pray. Scream. Write yourself a love letter. Strength. BE. Cheers!

Hey guys!

Well CJ-my birthday went well thank you for asking. My best friend took me and Jay out to dinner, we had a really good time. When i got home...H came down. He had a card for Jay to give me with a gift card to one of my favorite places to shop. He told me when he left happy birthday again.

the very next day H was not his usual self. He was SOOOO grouchy and hateful! Almost like he was in the very beginning but not quite so bad, still bad. Hasn't been like that in months. Dunno what that means???? the past few days since, he hasn't been in the best of moods--not that he has been in the best of moods since he left 6 months ago, but he is fairly decent most days---I don't get it? everyone says this is a good thing. He is dealing with inner demons when he is grouchy. Maybe things are going down hill for him and OW??? SOMETHING is going on. He hasn't stopped his visits with us, he has increased the length of time and is buying us supper and watching movies with us--so i am leaning towards things with the OW not going so smoothly??? Hope so anyway! my patience very thin these days!

I did ask him the other night if he wanted this M again. His response..."i dunno?" always the same. But his attitude towards me is different. More lovingly, not intimate lovingly but more so caring towards my feelings i guess--even though he answers the i don't know--which leaves me feeling like a piece of crap! Like a pair of shoes...do i want to wear these or these? Hmmm...i'll wear these a couple of hours...then switch to the other pair. Yep i am a pair of shoes! ( i do pick shoes as they are the other loves of my life!)

oh well anyway...he knows i am running on fumes! He knows and i did peek in his truck yesterday...and guess what i saw...the contract i had made up and gave him almost 2 months ago, folded up beside his seat. I asked him about it (long story...thought it was from OW...he laughed and pulled it out...it was me...anyway very long story, but ended well...) he showed it to me...i figured he had just thrown it away...WRONG!!! it was there beside him. He had kept it...this is good right? He handed it to me (to prove what it was to me) and MADE me give it back to him...folded it back and placed it right back in his truck where it was...GUYS...what is up with that??? am i being tooo hopeful in thinking that is a good sign?

He just seems so sad these days too. I am thinking God is really working hard on him...and this A is getting the best of him...Hope so!

so CJ--hope things are going well...did you go with your W to her sisters? i just caught up some more on your thread..and DANG!! i thought my sitch was bad...I really am praying for you guys! I hope things turn around for you soon! hope the music scene is well also...

keith urban...he's hot! I am the biggest Matchbox 20 fan and my H and i always had this deal if Rob Thomas ever showed up at the back door...i was allowed to just GO...he wouldn't stand in my way...his deal was if Faith Hill showed up...trust me...OW is NOOOO Faith... but i am still waiting for Rob...yes..i do know he is married...but a girl can dream right!! HA!!!

hope your weekend went well for you!..hey we got snow...again...it's gone now but it lasted for a couple of hours anyway!

MSA...hope your okay...

Later guys!

Jaysmom

Yup, doing well... just keeping busy. Haven't been posting as much / reading as much lately...

I think it's definitely a good sign that your H keeps the "terms" in his truck. Wonder what he's waiting for?

No word ever from OWH? Does your best friend have any info on whether he tell his friend things with OW are over?

MSA

Hi JM,

How are you doing? Hope things are well.

I was wondering, what are the things that you put in your contract? I was considering if this might be a good thing for me to do. I don't know... I'll check your earlier posts, praying that he starts to take it seriously.

I really starting to identify with how you are feeling, helpless, used up, used. It is so hard, I wouldn't wish this on anyone, I hope your OK.

Yeah I know what you mean about losing feelings, it is just so hard to keep respect for someone who is willing to deceive and hurt someone who they took vows with, vows to cherish, and stand by each other... why can't vows transcend love when the times are tough, why don't people put others first when they aren't sure how they feel?

I just don't understand...

Take care, give Jay a non-orange hug...

Later, CJ

CJ-

You seem really down today, i was catching up with your threads on GQ and i hope YOU are hanging in there too!

You know maybe a contract would be good for your W. Its really funny MSA mentioned it to me EARLY on...and i remember when i read it thinking...wow i really wish my H was to that point but i knew he wasn't--still i needed to get it ready for the EXACT time to hand it over!

So i sat in the bed one night piece of paper in hand and let it all out. I didn't do it for several weeks after MSA posted. When things started getting "better" (if you can call it better ---ever---when OW is still around). Anyway we must've had a decent evening or something-wrote it before i exposed to OWH. Gave it to him the night i exposed.

Terms went something like this--and i will keep it brief but i hope it will be useful to you (and yes...i drew it up somewhat like a contract -sure did- didn't give him anything sappy or lovey--nope---down right to the point---it's kinda long but i will only leave out what i think wouldn't apply to your sitch!

NC---no if's, and's or but's about it--none what-so-ever, OVER MEANS OVER--final, no friendship---OVER PERIOD!!

counseling--you must agree to some form of counseling, together eventually, individual, whatever...can be our pastor, can be anyone---HAS to be done. We must get to the bottom of the addiction, depression, etc. Until we do we stay in it.

Church-was always important to us in past, needs to be again. must be a priority. I want Jay raised in church, he needs Godly, christian parents that gave their all in teaching and training up their son for God.

Honesty-- (this was 2nd on my list) simply stated. You must be honest about anything and everything. Our M cannot exist without it.

POJA--(he didn't know this one--that's when he took SAA book)

there were a few others--like changing his route, apologies to me me and Jay, and other family members/friends ---some may disagree with me here, but he never confessed anything about the first A. He even lied about it to his mom this go around--of course making me look like the horrible person. He needs to admit his wrong--not to the whole world just those he has hurt, plus i think it will help him to be a better person.

and lastly-- A promise to me and Jay that this will never, ever happen again. A heart felt honest PROMISE. One that we know is real, true. I told him God would show me if it was. I told him--it wasn't okay that it happened but it was forgiven. I said, it will never be okay, i will not do this 3, 4, 5 more times ---not fair to me---not fair to Jacob and i would NEVER do it again, but it was forgiven and we could move forward and fix it.

ended by this---These are MY terms, you can accept or decline--it's up to you. If you want to come home--you must agree. I love you, C.

Don't know if it would help--but there it is in a nutshell.

I guess i am doing okay. But i SO know where you are. Reading your post i can totally feel you! i am getting to the point that i just KNOW i love him. i don't know that i feel it much anymore. hard to feel love for someone that has just ran you over a million times by a bus. Nothing in return. and some days the need for affection is soooo strong...you just need them so badly to hold you, love you...but it isn't there. and then he comes down and i just keep giving to him over and over, and he leaves and i just hit my knees...tears, anger...everything comes out.

He knows i am running low. He can really sense it. He still comes daily...seems more interested in me...and how i am doing...but the world still revolves around him. I have asked him several times if he loved OW...he always says the same...NO, or Who?, or "your crazy". but then again...he isn't going to tell me he loves someone, if he can't even admit to the someone. i did say to him...you had to think you loved her (yes i used past tense loved...) why else would you sacrifice your family...your little boy...he never responds.

CJ...this is the hardest thing i 've ever had to do my whole life and i know it is for you too! Hang in there...if i think of anything else that might be helpful i'll post it later...just hanging on here alot today...not much work to do!

If you are like me...it's the just needing to seperate our S's from the OP that drives me crazy! I feel like I should be able to do that but i just don't know how...

check with you in a bit!

JM

Hey thanks,

I guess I am down today, thanks for writing...it helps alot...

Just knowing that the EA is full force is heartbreaking, I thought it might be fizzling out. From what I can tell, OM is using my W's pain from dealing with me, to push her in an independent direction, and he is trying to be her salvation, wheeling her all the way.

Not so much the exact words they are saying is hurting, rather the big picture concept of what is happening, and what my wife does NOT seem to understand, she doesn't get it...that he wants her, and he'll walk over me and the kids and my W to get it. And he might even be doing it without realizing it, his self-righteous do-gooder attitude has the not-so-subconsious side benefit of getting him what he wants.

I need to make some big moves soon, W doesn't know what to do and I don't think she has many plans, she's not a go-getter. She'll wait until I leave or someone rescues her, for now...

Gonna contact his Mom tonight, what do I have to lose? What do you think?

I gotta gather more info first, think about this contract, gotta figure out how to get proof, and decide if exposure will help or not. Unlike your H, my W seems she'd rather be gone, I don't see her coming to visit us if I had custody of the kids...

So for now the usual Plan A, gonna try to talk to her more, get her to commit to time, plan for our conversations...then hopefully go talk to a priest/marriage coach... she agreed to this yesterday morning, but only out of frustration with me (even mentioned the MB course). I don't want to force her but I would like someone else talking to her about her problems rather than the OM...

sheesh, I hope this ends for you soon, sounds like you work in a hospital? (Sorry, I don't remember everything, although I've read all yer stuff)

What a great place to be! I mean 2mths from now, I'll likely be in a hospital. HAHA! How convenient for you! I can only imagine what 6mths of this must be like!

Why can't your H SEE????!!!!! I just don't get it, how could he not love you silly for all that you have done to support him and his family! Arrghh! Sorry I'm just frustrated today...WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH PEOPLE?!

I KNOW we don't deserve to be treated this way. I KNOW others close to us think we are nuts. But we want a FAMILY like you hear about, what others want, and surrounded in love. That's what God intended! We are fighting for our marriage, not these aliens. We are choosing that this dream, for now, is more important than ourselves. That sacrifice is worth it. And to have families that were different than our own.

My parents separated many times, and got together, and separated, initiated divorce, but never solved anything... then 30 years later... they finally seem to be doing OK, no A, but it did irrepairable damage to us kids, I just DON'T want that you know? But 30 years!!! no thanks...

So is this why we are so stubborn? Yes. We lived it. And we KNOW our children deserve better.

Sorry, I'm not so positive today, do read my post on pot and pans, I think it's kinda funny!

Take care!

CJ--i read about the pots and pans! HA! you better run for cover!!

I work for 4 eye docs. I need to be in a hospital myself. like you...gonna end up in one...told that to the ol'WH just the other day!!!

I have been thinking about your sitch and you really need to shake things up....i've been putting some thought into it...but i don't have time to post much now...time to leave, as soon as i get home i will check in on you and let you know what i come up with!

You got it right...we do want the best for our children and ourselves...and yes...why is it others think we should just "get over it" "move on" it just isn't that easy is it? This is our life!!! and yes...they think we are crazy!!

i'll check back this pm!!!

JM

PS...good luck around dinner time!!! watch your head!!!

Hey guys

i am just beside myself today. Just need to let off some steam right now to anyone that will listen. Last night i was having a hard time getting Jay to bed and when he finally said his prayers he rolled over in the bed and looked at me and said..."mommy, i didn't talk to that woman today...i didn't talk to her 'cause i wanted to make you happy" looking a bit puzzled at first not really knowing what he was talking about...i questioned a bit...and he said "that woman daddy see's sometimes...we saw her today...but i didn't talk to her"

Ugghhhhhh!!!! that POS!!! i CANNOT believe he has had the nerve to take my sweet baby boy around this wh*re!!!! HOW dare him!!! i told him from the day he left and walked away from us...spending NO time with his son at that time...never have him around her! Of course i got the "who" crap i get daily for 6 months.

anyway...i called his sorry butt up and let him have it. I really just don't care if he drops off the face of the earth right now. screw plan A/B, screw everything.

whew...thats better. sorry i am just completely p*ssed! He had the nerve to say that my son lied. Yep...you heard me right..."well that just isn't true...Jacob just made it up" Uh huh...cause 4 year olds generally do that sort of thing...make up OW. Jay said "daddy left me sitting in the truck and got in her car" (they were parked in a parking lot) and then jay said "he thought i was still asleep but i wasn't...then daddy got out and put his hood up...) Great cover John, then your son can't see the nasty sh*t your doing with this married woman.

HOW DOES HE SLEEP AT NIGHT????? saying that his son lied? how can he function in this world doing this crap? How does he not just get struck down by God for this?

anyway...for the record...Jay did not lie...when i asked the color of OW car...you guessed it he nailed him right on the money. My son is no typical 4 year old...he is a smart cookie and he wouldn't lie.

So i call H. get him out of bed. tell him i am p*ssed and give him the low down on what his son has told on him...after his "jay is lying" buisness...i just hang up on him. few later...phone rings...yep he calls having the nerve to say "are you finished?" i just hang up again...and yes...a few later...he calls back "are you done now?" NOT hardly...and 59 mins later...45 of them pretty much me going on non-stop. Now don't get me wrong...i know i sound mad tonight, but i wasn't mean at all...but i read him his rights.

i told him...he had to end it TODAY! i told him again how much i loved him..but firm not sappy. I told him alot, ALOT of things. He sat there and listened not saying a word.

so today..he calls me at work...hasn't done that since about 2 weeks after he left. why? pride. but today..he called...my guess...to see how i was gonna feel today.

When Jay and i got home...H was already down here at the house...playing Playstation. I asked him...did you end it today...."end what?" OMG!! is my life for real? I think, no wait a minute...I know NOW i am crazy!!!

BIG problem is i just have to suck it up...for Jays sake. Tomorrow is his big birthday...this Sunday...his big party. tomorrow H and I are taking him to movie and eat, then back home for gifts and cake with just us. Its what we've done since his first birthday...we make sure HIS day is with us..all day, then we have party with friends and family.

i just don't get it!?!? He don't want to lose OW, but don't want to lose me. what gives? What is the hold this woman has on him? says he doesn't love her...but then again..."who?" but if he thinks he loves her...wouldn't he be happy all the time and NOT spending time with me? so what is it? what...what...what....?????

Thanks guys for letting me vent. Feels much better.

i know that God loves me and my family more than i do. Romans 8:28 is what i hang on to daily. Something good will come out of this, eventually. Thank goodness for a God who loves me even in my ranting!

4 years ago today i was lying in the hospital, begging for someone...anyone...to "get this baby out of me!!!!! don't care how you do it...get him out" My H holding my hand, telling me how much he loved me, how proud he was, how happy he was (even though i went into labor at the funeral home, H father died 4 years ago today...and while making arrangments for his funeral...my water broke...)in the middle of my H's sorrow...he found so much joy and love. He was so strong and so good to me. No one has ever loved me so much. Oh how i miss him.

And yes...this is just a piece of my entertaining, interesting life...

Inspiring CJ??? i wouldn't say that. But soapish...yep...!!!

so CJ....You hanging in there? Have you tried just distancing yourself from your W? i mean i know your gone alot but maybe she takes your doing things to help out around the house, etc...as being pushy or trying too hard...i can't find the word i want...anyway like i have any room to give advice...but make her work for you...know what i am saying? i don't know...just a thought. didn't see you here today! Hope you still have your head!

thanks again for hearing me!

later guys!
JM