Oh...I'm still here...wuz looking for you today, but I had no time to post.

It's the middle of the night, I just went here for some hope...hope that someone's situation was better than mine, but...

This post just made me cry...WHY DO PEOPLE MESS WITH KIDS AND THE PEOPLE THEY SWORE TO LOVE????????!!!!!!

I'm sorry, this just makes me furious...why? what for?

I'm SOSOSOSOSOSOSOSO sorry for you, of course Jay isn't lying, he doesn't understand enough to have the proper motivation...he has no reason to lie, even though he knows enough to not want to talk to this sl*t!!!!!!!!

Why does Jay have to be so close to it? Where the he\\ is your real H residing? On Haley's comet? Even alien's know not to go there!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, Oh, I'm so sorry I mean no disrespect... I just... don't get it. I'm not insulting your H I hope, because someone else is trapped in his body right now...

Sorry so emotional myself, just had some terrible news myself... I gotta go and try to get some sleep, maybe I'll get into it tomorrow...

I understand why you lost it on him, dunno how much you yelled, maybe none, Plan A isn't doing a crap for me either right now, everything good I say gets twisted into a lie or something that hurts my marriage...I don't know what to do.

I ... juST...DON'T .... KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (My William Shatner impression in text form!)

Take care, I wish you happiness, I wish this would end for you.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JAY!!!!!!!!!!! He's likely to remember this one for a while, try to do something he'll remember forever!

Please take of you and yours...

MSA...if your lurking, hello!

CJ

CJ---so needed your post!! thanks!!! and trust me, your showing NO disrespect for my H....it's encouraging to hear you say that...!

Today my darlin' is 4!!! We had a decent day. considering. H penciled us in for the afternoon, you know we come after the visit with Mrs. Hus5y! today he could've taken the day off...of course he didn't....and today is his shortest work day of the week....but funny how it turned out to be longest! I was off today, and he had planned on the movie,etc with us...so had to get his time in with her somehow!!!

My blood is boiling! My little bro just called (he's about a foot taller than me...but only 20...so he is still my little) and i was telling him about the other day...he said sis...he is just psycho! my H and my brother were just like brothers. My lil bro and i have always been VERY close...he was like my child sort of...i was 13 when he was born and i kept him all the time...after my H and i got married he stayed every single weekend with us! so this is extremely hard for him. He is really fighting hard not to hurt my H.

so many people have lost respect for him...why wouldn't they...it just keeps going on and on and on....

oh well. anyway...Jays birthday went okay i guess. When Jay blew his candles out he wished for his daddy to come home. Yep...sure did. standing right there in the kitchen chair hanging over the bar..."i wish my daddy would come home soon" did i mention...he is 4. 4! 4! my little 4 year old...wished what a grown up would...not a new bike, playhouse,game...no he had a real wish. His daddy stood there and acted normal...blew around a bit. i just walked away...tears in my eyes. stupid H changes the subject about some toy Jake got...

uggghhhhhhh!!! tell me...are all men this way? I know your not CJ...your in my shoes. See there are decent men around...how is it the decent women end up with the crap men and vice versa? Uggghhhh again. I'm huffing and puffing tonight.

So anyway...CJ hows it going? i hope you post some on yourself...hope things are some better for you...you were up late i see...

MSA..hope your well! take care of you!

CJ i'll check in on you tomorrow...take care!! Remember...as you have told me before...we are in the right...they are in the wrong...I believe God will bring us out of this mess soon...we won't suffer forever! Keep praying...it's the only tool!

gonna go love on my sweetheart and get his hyped up self in the bed! Loves the icing not so much the cake...HA!

Jaysmom

I have read your thread for months - you do need to do something to shake him up, probably not overtly, that doesn't seem to be your style, (as in going away). You really need to do the 180. It works and the best thing is that it makes you seem as indepentdent and attractive to them as you were when they met you.

If he is being angry now and then for no reason, he is beginning to have disagreements with OW. So you taking care of you and appearing to become independent of him emotionally and having growing self esteem is going to bother him and she will sense it.

I have been working on my marrriage for 3 1/2 years - I know what it is to wait. Following the 180 and working with His Needs Her Needs has literally saved my life and drawn him back toward me over and over.

Linda

I know i do...but any suggestions on how and what. I've said to my friends all along...i don't think leaving will do it, but i feel so in the dark about how to do the 180..in my sitch ....any suggestions on how to start/where to start????

for starters...He is ALWAYS around...how do i handle this? How do i do this without seeming like i don't WANt him around or the opposite letting him just run over me and get his way, without hurting my son in the process? he is hurt enough over my stupid H and his actions without me adding to it. My son wants him home...i want him home...i think my H wants to be home sometimes...but mostly just wants it the way it is.

I guess i just don't know how to do a 180 when it's not as if we are seperated. Really we are not. He is there every evening...he just doesn't sleep there. he just doesn't have to deal with the same responsibilites as H and dad. he can have his OW during the day and family time in the evening...He just doesn't seem to have any intimate feelings towards me at all...AT ALL! not since Christmas Eve. He just seems to want nothing from me but conversation.

He hates when i get upset or angry...and he tries to fix it if he makes me that way...so what gives?

any suggestions?

Hi JM!

Hmmm, I'm not sure what the 180 is exactly, I was mentioning it b4, but I'm not schooled in it...

Looks like there's some info over at www.divorcebusting.com. Maybe you know all about it... seems to me the 180 is done when they ARE around, to show that you don't give a sh*t anymore...I'll check it out!

It is so obvious about your H's cake-eating...I wish he'd stop, but it gives me hope that he is not willing to give you up either... hang in there. I'd almost prefer this, I think my W would rather just leave...

I still think you've got a chance.

Yes, your H needs a jolt. Something scary, I don't know what... let's brainstorm... could you get more survellience done and do a second exposure? Would he care?

I'm just tired of my sitch, I was up late, couldn't sleep, b/c I found out about some lies OM is telling my W... details on my thread...sorry so long.

My W needs a jolt also. She is comfortable in our sitch as long as I don't bother her. Yeah, you're right, sometimes I put on too much pressure. I'm pretty good though. But I'm starting to believe that I might be better off without this. My FIRST choice is keeping my family together, however, but I'm starting hate this too much. But I know she WANTS me to give up, so...

She needs a serious dose of reality. She's in a Catholic family and I'm formulating a plan. Soon (tonight?) I will see if I can get her to admit she is contacting OM. If so, i will ask if she would consider a NC letter. I'm doubting it.

I think I'll order SAA this weekend, I bought HNHN at the bookstore, but they didn't have SAA...gotta really get learning. I can't really apply HNHN with this darn EA going on, y'know?!

I may even contact him as well. Show him pictures of my kids and ask him to stop. Not talking to him hasn't worked AT ALL. It has ONLY alienated him against me. He used to largely support my marriage (yeah, even in his screwed up ways...) but now he is content running me into the ground. But he is very mallible, might be able to get him understanding me again... I've got nothing to lose, THIS certainly isn't working. I afraid if I see him, I may KILL him! haha!

One last chance for each of them, then exposure. I've had ENOUGH!! Why can the world think she's just unhappy with a cheating husband and out of love, a dose of reality is in order. I realize it may be the beginning of the end, but I can't see this going anywhere like this... maybe this will surround her with people that force her to see that what she is doing is wrong. She's SO foggy right now that ANY of my attempts of reconciliation are totally useless...

Sorry, little bit of a threadjack here...prayers to you, I really hope I can help you brainstorm your course of action.

Anyway hope your OK, hope you like to play with Jay's new toys, I mean I get to play with Polly Pockets and Dora the explorer. Maybe you get to play with Stars Wars and Sponge Bob?

We gotta get into action somehow... I'll try to help...

Cheers?

Here's a post by Linda describing the 180... it just might work for you, especially since your H seems to need your involvement...interesting...sounds kinda tough, like a Plan A on steriods... maybe this will be something to consider for me after exposure... hmmm, gotta think about it.

But it seems tailor made for you! I think it would have your H chasing you around the house in no time!

Whaddaya think?


The 180 helps you do a 180 turn around to the way you were when your spouse met you and wanted you - also it gives you a raised self esteem which makes you more
in control of how you react, instead of being stuck in a pattern of negative respomses and feelings. First you start with these rules, then you may add some of your own,
to change other responses you have if there are other behaviours your spouse plays on that put you down - whether they do it consciously or unconsciously. So go
ahead and do as many as you can for as long as you can - if you don't need them at some point, you can take a break but if things get bad again - get back on the 180
horse and ride like the wind - LOL

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

Divorcebusting.com

Go to the site and join the forum for more help and support. This is the beginning list.

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow spouse around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from their family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse spouse_s whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if your spouse notices and, more important, realize what they will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show spouse someone they would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear from them and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

well i read the list and i know that i don't do ALL of those things but i do ALOT of them and have been for a while. I know i talk to much to him but honestly NO one else is...i guess i should stop that but i don't beg or plead or anything.

I have to call him some of the time because we have a child. He is here with me everyday and if i stay in the bedroom he comes in there saying..."why are you mad, grumpy, etc." I don't act mad or anything i have been trying to pull that stuff above off but it seems with my H he takes it the wrong way. Maybe it is working and that is his way of responding to it.

see here is another thing. a week before my H left he talked to me about a few things....he was still being loving at the time...not giving me at that point any reason to believe OW...maybe a hint but nothing like a couple of days after this conversation. He said to me...You have all your friends you do things with...girls from work, your best friend, etc...You go out by YOURSELF shopping and do things just yourself...I never do any of that. I have no friends. I never go anywhere. Not even alone."

i said to him "john...first of all...YOU hate to shop. ALWAYS have...you like to joke to people we run into at the mall etc...about how i have run you to every place i could find...and that is a shock that you would want to ...but okay...go ahead and do it...i don't mind. secondly...about the friend thing...i didn't think you minded me going sometimes..." he responded as, i have never minded you doing any of those things...it's not that ...maybe i would like to...

i then said...well then go ahead...call one of your friends and do something. He then said...i don't have any.

He was right. He doesn't. He didn't at that time. He distanced himself from all of his close friends and now he doesn't have any. NONE. seriously. JUST OW. she became the "friend he didn't have" and also the "lover" that's what she wanted and she was filling his head full of crap about me...to push him away...(on top of our struggles...it was enough to make him leave).

so what i am getting at is..i have always been rather independent. Our entire M. I have always had friends and loved doing things on my own. HE on the other hand has been the clingy one to me. He never did anything with anyone the past 2-3 years but with me. Maybe at a time or two. so i feel he became sort of jealous of me...resentful of me...Know what i am saying? Does it sound crazy???????? Probably! maybe i am crazy. I probably look too deeply into things.

i know people on here say most A's are all the same. Yep i agree to an extent. Noone's can be exact. My sitch has alot of deep issues. It has never been simple, cut to this. NOTHING has worked for me. Exposure. trying to act as though things are over...trying to be loving...heavens i think at times even my prayers!

I just don't know. Honestly. I don't understand the hold this OW has on him. I wish he just thought he was totally head over heels in love. that would make it easier. CRAZY as it sounds. But my heart just isn't telling me that! I just don't know. I feel like if he thought he loved her...he would let me go...regardless...just let me go...but he can't for what-ever the reason. the other day when he took Jay and met OW...he knew the risk...Jay was right there, but he just HAD to see her for the 5 mins or so he could....but yet...he is here every evening...isn't sneaking out to call...nothing...for 2-3 hours or so...on the weekends sometimes longer. So what is it????? Just the thrill of the secrecy????

I could expose again but OWH really has me pissed off right now! I know i shouldn't be that way...you guys know she said..."oh honey...i am so sorry...NOTHING happened THAT way between us...he and his wife have been having trouble and i was just being a friend to him...and it went a little too far" OWH buys the story..case closed. then when i call him 2 weeks later to tell him my H is sitting in her parking lot caught by my best friend...he doesn't want to believe me cause she's made me out to be some horrid crazy person.

Ughh. will this soap opera life of mine ever be better? I want to hold on to Romans 8:28! I know God is an awesome God and i love and praise him for loving me and carrying me...but i am SOOOO getting impatient for something to happen! i really wish these days they would get caught...and get caught GOOD!!!! even visualize a black eye or two on my H coming in one day! of course i could give those myself...but i choose to stay ladylike for now!!!

for now i said.

guys...you don't know how much i appreciate your words...these few days have been tough. Not a sad kinda tough...just a "i'm spent" kinda tough!

Please keep the posts up as i'm gonna need em to get thru this BIG HONKIN' birthday bash for my son! funny thing is H has only a couple of family members coming..counting MIL. You know he is dreading it!

any suggestions on how i should be around him this weekend???


thanks guys! take care!

JM

Hi! Try to keep up with your post. Just wanted to see if you have read the book by James Dobson on Tough Love and also When the one you love wants to Leave by Donald harvey? i have just recently read those and they were both really good books for me. Forgive me if they are already mentioned in your post I didn't look back through.

Follow the list to the letter - be upbeat as if something good but private has happened, if you normally start conversations, don't. If you usually soak up what he says, don't go to the other room or read a book, I pretend to and keep saying - sorry, did you say something. If he makes a fuss I apologise and say, I didn't mean to ignore you, it's just I have a lot of private stuff to think of now, and then hum a happy tune to myself ...get it

Just wanted to send a quick note and ask for prayers! Jays party is tomorrow afternoon ( oh wait it is tomorrow...) and today my H has been a real pill!

i haven't been around him at all except for about 15 mins. He promised last night to be here to watch Jay so i could run out and finish the party stuff. At 5pm...he still wasn't home. I left jay with MIL and went on out. He finally shows around 6ish. so MIL said. He has just been awful the past few days. what is it? My best friend thinks it's guilt due to this week being Jake's birthday and H always being so excited and the main party planner. she says...it's got to be bothering him because he knows how much he enjoyed his big party.

i didn't think about that. He hasn't done ANYTHING to help with it except pick up a balloon or 2. he is buying the pizza that's it. I have paid for everything else and done everything else. My MIL and my parents pitch in some but mainly me.

i just don't get it guys...seems fine for several days and acts like he enjoys my company like he is trying to come home...then we go 50 steps backward again. He starts smarting off to me, stays out later, is short with jay, short with me...generally just pissy about everything. Is that a good sign or a bad sign???

tonight i hardly spoke to him cause i was so ill about him putting things off that needed to be done. I cannot count on him for anything.

Eventually won't this A just explode into the light of day? eventually won't OWH get a clue? eventually won't they finally get busted by someone other than me...like her kids or family members, co-workers, church member...her kids are old...21 and 16... they are shielded from this while my baby boy gets drug into it without say so.

I did tell my H something from my childhood that really messed with me. My mom cheated on my dad, as i have said before. when i was between 5 or 7?? i remembered being asleep and getting woke up by mom giggling and talking..hearing another mans voice...and it not being my dad...i just pretended to be asleep because i heard them near the door and i looked over and saw this man's head peeking in the door (just looking in on me...nothing bad like...mom there like she was showing me off) it terrified me. i told my grandmother the next day.

i didn't know until then there was OM in my mom's life. I told my H..."i have asked you since the day you left...do not take jay around OW. You have no idea what you are doing to him. (after telling the above to him) i said you think it goes away...? your wrong...it stays with you your entire life. You never forget it...You keep Jay one day..one day a week and you can't go one day without seeing her...I am living, breathing proof...and you know it because you've lived it with me for 12 years...it will scar him and he won't forget"

he of course...silent but pissed. He commented that he had to go and ran off. coward.

guys...I'm ready to hand him over to her.

starting to just really not want to look at him, be around him, talk to him. really having to just make myself. starting to think...he will come around...but it will be too late when he does. I've fought hard for 6 months. starting to just shut down inside.

Pray for us! i'll let you know how the party goes...H is dreading it pretty dang bad!

Jaysmom

Jaysmom - I am not trying to threadjack or anything, but I have always kept up with your thread and I want to know if you and your H will both be at Jakes party?? Will there be people at the party who know what is going on between the 2 of you??

I am struggling with this b/c my dd is turning 1 in april and I want to throw a B/day party, but feel it would be weird for me to throw one with WH, since most of our friends know our sitch...

Just searching for sage advice from someone going trough the same thing..

Thanks - and I am so sorry about how truly difficult this all is!!! Feel free to email the below address since this is not in any way meant to thread jack!!!!

Alison

Hi Alison. Made it thru the party just fine. Held MY head high, mingled around...my family was great. His family eehh. hardly spoke to me...like i'm the one who's foolin'around. Anyway...to you Alison...i don't know your sitch...but understand this about mine.

My H and i get along just fine. If i didn't mention anything about OW and his A...life would be just grand and glorious for him. He spends every evening with us in his little denial world. He wants his family, but he wants his OW too. You see...he just doesn't live with us and during the day he likes to fool around with OW in his fantasy life. So...we go on most days...laugh, get along..have no problems...he fixes things...checks on us...buys things at times. Just like we did except there is the OW between him and me.

so...last night i had just about enough. My mother told him she loved him and hugged him before she left. She didn't even tell me good-bye...Understand my Mother NEVER does these kind of things. H is the one who told me she did. My dad and rest of my fam and friends (minus a couple) all spoke to him and made him feel comfortable. His family avoided me. Freaks. he hid behind his mom's coat tail. she shielded him just in case.

i'm pissed about the family thing. Proud of mine...he is doing OW and my family came in and were so good. his acted like i made him go to her. Uggghhhh...

just needed to vent that.

guys gotta go ...i'll post more in a bit.

gotta do something today...cause i cannot live this way any longer.

gotta get to work now.

JM

Jaysmom,
I hope you do decide that you WON'T live this way any longer. It will shake him out of his fog, I'm pretty sure. But even if it doesn't, is this a life?

You are at the point I was at when I went to a lawyer & filed for divorce.

I don't know if 180 is enough for your H, as long as he gets to sit on the fence eating his cake, I really don't think he cares how you treat him or act...?

I fear he needs the BIG wake up gong.

Pray about it.


MSA

Hi JM,

Yeah, that sure is frustrating, NOT YOUR FAULT!!!

Take heart, be strong, you are doing your best, yes I think something has to happen...

I wish I knew what it was...

Gotta go and work, I'll check back later!

cya! CJ

hey guys! yep MSA i agree with you. 180 i've done alot of...not phasing him. he is killing me and i am agreeing also with...so what if something major doesn't work...either it makes him realize his stupidness soon...or he will continue on and when he does eventually realize it...i will be long gone.

either way...i can't handle this. it's emotional and mental abuse. last night was something else. spoke to him on the phone for a while after he left and he was just awful. don't have time to get into it...even if i wanted don't know if i would. Basically said Jay lied about the OW the other day...yep this time...using "he is just a child...they make up sh*t" I said YES HE IS A CHILD MY POINT EXACTLY....he has no reason to lie, he is innocent and doesn't know how to MAKE UP OW and MAKE UP the EXACT color of her car...

this went on and before it was over he was blaming my "ATTITUDE" on being around my best friend that she "manipulates" me into thinking things/doing/saying things i shouldn't...like i can't think for myself. Like the past 6 months haven't been hel[ on me!!!!

whew...the blood is boilin' guys! anyway...i can't live this way so who cares at this point...if he doesn't get off the fence on my side...let him have her. If he wants her 2nds (cause he is a fool if he thinks she isn't sleeping with her H ...) then let him have her. if 5 mins of here and there and living as her "pet" then fine...that is what he deserves. I on the other hand am fabulous and and any man who catches me and Jay at this point will be lucky and blessed...and God will see to it so will I.

Just wish i knew what to do at this point. I can't stand the sight of him.

keep praying for me...gotta go work myself.

hope to get on later...i think H did something to my computer yesterday????? it connects to the internet but "page cannot be displayed" keeps coming up, you can't search anything....he ran ad-aware yesterday is the only thing he claims to have done. any suggestions???? i don't think he did it on purpose...but who knows he is probably keeping up with me here....???

Later! Jaysmom

Adware should have a registry back up function, so go find it and restore the registry, also when you delete some adware, tracking adware, then the page it belongs to won't work.


Well if you are all nicey nicey to him when he comes round you are not doing the 180. On the 180 you are pleasant and polite but as you would be to a stranger, not an intimate. I would just leave him in the room with Jay and then go about my busines. NO phone calls of any kind, to him unless it is a medical emergency unless he calls and then just tell him a bunch of happy happy good stuff you are doing and be the first to say goodbye. Do not mention OW, if you are pleasant but distant he will not be getting his "fix" from you and will be sh**y with her. She will not be enough and will not like it, and they will begin to get mad at each other.

You need to be removed and not available to him in any way other than if he was a stranger you have no past with, and do not intend to get involved with.

Set your boundaries and keep them in place. Read over the 180 list again and see which ones you are not doing or could adapt so you could use them. Don't ever be unpleasant or put down, act as if the OW is the last thing you are worried about as you are too busy having a pleasant life when he is gone.

I would stray from the list and DH would stray from me. You have to make him see the old you, when he first met you, happy confident and "NOT HIS"

Good Luck

well...computer is working...H must've came down here today and fixed it. He claims no but...the toliet seat was up when i got home...wasn't me.

good grief. why lie about everything? thinkin' its a sickness for him now. wondering does he know the truth?

anyway...at least he fixed it and i can get on here for a bit.

Alison...as far as our party went yesterday...it went pretty much like the past 3. You see...my H is still so much in denial he really thinks he isn't cheating! HA! Of course everyone there knows our sitch but no one said anything. His grandmother and one cousin who was there...don't know anything...and when they left...they still don't know. I don't know about things with you...but i believe you should still go on with the party. so what if everyone knows...are you worried your H won't come? that may be the case...but still...this is your baby...I personally would include him...if it were me...and if he doesn't show...that's his decision...he is the one missing out. If your worried other people/family/friends won't come because he would be there. do as i did. Phone the problem ones...(like my mom, friends that i thought might lose their cool when they saw him) and asked them to please not say anything. I told them (well just mom) this is about Jay and not John. I told her...he is so out of God's will right now..that nothing would continue to keep him further out of his will than someone being smart or ugly with him. (this would be why she hardly spoke to me and didn't tell me good bye...but hey my mom is another story on another website somewhere! ha!) anyway...good luck to you...and enjoy your party! no matter what...its about that sweet baby and how God blessed you with her!

I really did enjoy the party. My best friend was a blast! all my other friends too. We had a PEEYATA (as jakey would say) and of course had a stick to hit it. those kids banged the heck out of it. H wouldn't hold it up though. think he was afraid. My best friend had the stick some. she just kept cracking me up. I just enjoyed myself and my son.

thanks guys for the advice! i do appreciate it and am trying my best! it's getting easier to as i go along because i just don't want to be treated this way!

CJ-getting worried bout cha! Haven't seen any new posts...how are things going?

see you guys tomorrow! As Jay would say "time for bed-night mommy"

Jaysmom

Hi JM,

How are you?

I've been around, all this is just so much work that it is hard for me to fine time to post as often as I'd like, plus my normal schedule is pretty crazy, 2 jobs, family, too much!

Sorry to hear you're sitch isn't improving, I wish i knew what to say, it's unfair, and from my experience, yes they lie all the time, and they don't seem to realize what is wrong or that it is an untruth. It helps me to think that they have a mental illness. I just don't know any other way to rationalize it.

I think I'm reading you. In a way, this is starting to get easier b/c I'm starting to detach. This is abuse, and we shouldn't have to do this forever...

Sorry, I 'm not so encouraging today, I don't want you to give up... I think that you have something, your H seems to be unable to fully detach from you. If you can figure out how to take that away, you really might have a shot. I know you're being as strong as you can, I admire you so much for it...

My sitch is a little different, my W just hates my guts. Unfairly I might add. It is so frustrating, she is only living with me for financial reasons. I giving a last go here but I'm ready to pull the plug (Plan B) if NC doesn't start and she does not start working working on our marriage. The psychological abuse is too much, and this is the most messed up social sitch I've ever seen, I couldn't have imagined all this and written a book if I tried...

So I'm thinking about a few more moves, backing off, detaching, asking her out on dates, Plan A, info gather, get everything out of the house that shouldn't be there, talk to a lawyer, and try to protect my kids the best way I can.

I want to save my family, but this is starting to turn into war, I don't want to hate my W so much that I can't get along with her after a D.

Sorry to threadjack, i'm just at the end of my rope...I hoping God shows me something soon that helps me go on...

I really hope you're OK, hope Jay had fun at the B'Day party, I'm glad to hear that he made the "come home Daddy" comment when blowing out his candles. God is working. Bless your son, what a SMART and SENSITIVE kid. You are so lucky!

I'll check in with you soon, gotta go!

CJ

CJ--i'm good today..thanks for asking. Getting better everyday as a matter of fact.

I've been thinking about your sitch...i honestly do not believe your W hates your guts. She is so much like my H. Seriously. I have told/asked my H several times you hate me/why do you hate me????? he always tells me he doesn't and never has. I think they wish that they could hate us. They sit there thinking of every little wrong we've done so they can justify their wrong. but in the evening when they are lying there in bed...tossing and turning because God won't allow them to rest easy...they realize...they are the problem. they are wrong. But that is too hard for them to face so they just block it out. Or at least thats what i believe my H does.

then morning comes...and contact is made with OW and that sets the bar...for that day....

He told me, after his first episode, ( i like to think of it as an episode in our M...) that when he would go to bed at night he would lay in the bed and think i have to stop doing this..i will NOT do this tomorrow, i will end this (before it wasn't just OW...it was more of something else...nothing really bad ..but i am just not going there today...) i will stop doing what i am doing and go home to my W. He said...he would lay there and cry and promise that when the morning came he would straighten himself up and come home.

but then he said...when he would wake up the cycle started over...until he finally had enough. I finally just told him that i was leaving if he didn't come home. so one day about a week after me telling him...he came home. IT WAS HORRIBLE! that was it...he just came home. nothing said...until 5 months later when i found out about the OW. but that is a whole chapter i won't go into.

what i am getting at is...don't think your W hates you. She hates herself right now. She WANTS to think of every reason to but in the end...she knows ....really knows she doesn't. She feels bad when she is mean and hurtful to you. Heck i even got an apology yesterday from my WH. and it was for "i'm sorry i've been talking so hateful to you...i shouldn't" hey...that was pretty darn big for him don't cha think?

i don't think you should ask her out on dates. I think you should pull back like you said. Exist with one another. Heck like the 180 list i've been trying to do. and i know what all you other guys are saying...sister you should do what your telling CJ to do. I'M TRYING...I PROMISE! CJ your sitch and mine are alot alike. my difference...my H leaves at bedtime to go have a sleep-over at his moms. He is here most all the time. But i don't ask him to go places, i don't really ask anything of him...unless it has something to do with Jake.

try to just act un-interested in anything to do with her. You've already made it clear what you are willing to do and that you want the M. Now she must STOP contact with that icky OM!!! i dunno...just some thought.

Well...nothing new going on today. Just the same ol' same ol'. H was so much like his old self today though....it's nice to see that...makes me truely believe he does still exist.

hope everyones doing okay. REALLY nice weather here...suppose to be 60ish the next couple of days!!! so sorry CJ! If it makes you feel better...we are all sick because of it!!!!

gonna go watch Jay sing in his microphone...my child is the next American Idol! HA! he is singing Tim McGraw...wish you guys could hear him "she was killin' me in that mini shirt" yes...you read right...he sings mini shirt...He is just a blast!

later ! Jaysmom

Hi JM!

Geez, thanks for the encouraging remarks, I REALLY needed it! Thank you.

This crap is just SO hard. I have no control over it, and I can't handle people thinking I'm a bad person all the time. I've always been a people-pleaser, and I can't wrap my head around why W and OM should be mad at ME! I didn't do this, not my choice!

So yeah, I know you're right, so the 180 it is. I'm hoping it's not too hard, yeah i said i don't love my W anymore, but it's likely not true. But I'm SO frustrated with her that I'm losing my ability to care enough to reach to her, so I hope this makes the 180 easier.

How is this working for you? Do you find it makes your H want to implore your thoughts? W said she IS having a lot of trouble sleeping lately, that's why she was taking sleeping pills...does this signify the guilt? I guess we have to look for the subtle signs, hey? Look for the things that they think that they are hiding from us, the things that they can't, that they are hurting, that they are guilty, and that they aren't very proud of themselves right now, and they are depressed b/c of it.

Your words REALLY screwed my head back on straight. It helps so much to relate to people here that are going through this, my family can't understand why I stay, but I need to try...my Mom fought for her marriage for decades, there was no affair, but she was doing the wrong things, she is very knowledgable, but doesn't know really what advice she ought to give. My bandmate is very knowledgable, and is a pretty good advice giver, but even he is saying to get moving on, he did this also for 4mths.

So bless you. How do you keep this up?! Do you sometimes wonder what this all means? Do you believe everything happens for a reason? I like to think I do, but I can't see WHAT this is for. Maybe God knows this woman isn't good for me and He's trying to help...maybe God knows my W needs to grow and she needs something like this around her to mature, maybe she needs to be taught that I have always been here and I'm someone who can be tested and relied on, relied on for life...maybe God needed to teach me about emotional needs and how I need to be more aware of them and cherish my marriage ALL the time no matter HOW tough my work schedule gets...that my marriage needs to come before EVERYTHING: work, kids, money, my extended family, myself, and even my W. I've learned so much, please God, give me a chance now to apply it... thanks for the lesson, but when is school out?

More threadjacking...sorry, I hope I help you too, I hope that my words have gotten you through some of your days...it helps to know that I can do SOME good in this world, that just maybe someone listens to my words and takes comfort from what I have to say.

That is so inspiring, hearing what you just told me about your H, laying awake and crying, can I assume that you didn't know anything about this until afterwards? I hope that is what is keeping my wife up, that she knows, that I'm not lying all the time, that I'm a good person that she's hurting, to make herself feel better...

How long did it take for you and your H to talk about this after the "episode"? Did it help you feel closure? Could you feel his genuine remorse? What other hints do you gather to help make you know that your H still cares for you?

My W still does things for me, and still seems upset b/c she thinks that I have found/talking/seeing someone else. Why does she care? Heck, she's given me permission to go and sleep with other people! She told me this on D-Day! Really! I'm not buying it, so I take this as a sign that she still cares somewhat; even if she doesn't want me, why is it not OK for anyone else to have me? HMMMM?

thanks silverpool for the embellishment on the 180 technique, it's effective immediately, and I can also see the insulating benefits that it has for the BS.

Mini shirt! HA! I like them too! and skirts! anything mini really! Yer boy learns fast, just teach him not to start getting involved with girls until he reads and understands EVERYTHING on this site! And give him a test, and make him do the emotional needs questionaire and give it to all of his girlfriends b4 they are allowed to call him, interview all his girlfriends and make them complete the love busters questionaire, have them all tested for STD's, require a complete psychological evaluation, IQ test with a 120 minimum, EQ (emotional quotient)test, Myers-Briggs personality test, ask them what marriage means to them, give them shock therapy, house them in a rubber room with 14 bodybuilders and monitor their sexual behavior, interrogate all their friends and contacts for character references, and insist that they address you as "your majesty" or "your excellency". When you are satisfied with all of this, ask them over for dinner every day, and slip sedatives in their food so that they are too tired to do ANYTHING except for love your son. Oh, and fit them with flea collars... Jay doesn't want fleas, I mean, why would he?

Just a thought(s). Jay might wonder why he has girlfriends that are always too tired for anything, although amazed at how loyal and dependent they seem to be... and why they seem to have an unexplained fear of you! hahahahahahahahaa! ha!

Oh, I hope you are doing OK... I'll check in again soon!

CJ