I think I need to sleep on this. You are all making valid points, but this is a really big decision not to be taken lightly.

I have told his family, my family and our friends. Heck, I even told DD's pediatrician today (I was asking how the stress of this situation can affect babies).

On a sorta related note, I'm kinda ticked at him for not even calling to check on DD tonight. I had to go pick her up early at daycare because she had a high fever from her ear infection. I called him to let him know. Yep, being away from us is REALLY making him a better father. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Melody Lane, I absolutely was not suggesting that you were rude. Quite the contrary. I am supportive.

I just felt you were moving a little fast for SM05, and thought she would benefit from some of the background and experience rather than just receiving the conclusions.

My reference to fear of exposure was simply to acknowledge the obvious and as an important point that you had yet to address.

I really respect the work y'all have done with Gramn and others. My apologies if I came off any other way. My interest was only that SM05 get complete information so that she may make an informed decision in which she can have confidence and faith.

Best Regards

Hardhead, I am sorry you feel we are not doing a good job with SM, but I think if you read the explanations about exposure, you will see they were very comprehensive.

If you feel that there is a point someone else has missed, you are perfectly free to answer that point for SadMommy. There is nothing stopping you from providing what you feel is "complete information" if the posts of others are not up to your standards.

Hardhead - Welcome to Melody. That little Texan gal does move pretty fast, and get right to the point now, doesn't she?

Sadmommy - Hang in there. You are very early in this. Take care of yourself. Most WS's return to the marriage. But it ain't gonna be pleasant.

I am so sorry you are in this situation. It hurts like heck. But, in order to bring an end to the hurt, the A - you must bring it out of the shadows. Affairs do not survive in the light of day. They just don't.

You are getting some expert advice from the pros here. Please listen to these people who are trying to help you. They know what works and what doesn't.

I do not know how to post a link, but Pepperband has posted recently about the carrot and the stick. About Plan A. If someone could post this link for you, I am sure you could see what everyone here is talking about.

Take care of yourself and your daughter. Your best chance of bringing an end to the A is a complete Plan A, which includes exposing !!

Thinking of you - Carnation

Exposure killed Squid's affair. Simple as that.

Hardest thing I ever did.

OM GF and I forged an alliance so OM and Squid could not even TXT message each other without one of us knowing.

Besides, even under duress, I don't do "cringing" well. My exposure bought the consequnces of OM and Squids actions crashing in though the window like a sherman tank.

And I know this is a tired analogy now - but its true - I became a KNIGHT that day. I did a BRAVE, risky thing that struck a huge blow for good against evil. I still remember that gentle itch in my right palm as the whip passed from the infidels to my and OM GFs hands!

Exposure doesn't always work quickly, and in fact may not work fullstop. But if a marrige cannot be recovered after expoure I suggest there would also have been no marrige without exposure either.

Exposure coupled wth arks 'lighthouse' plan A is good on SO MANY levels. Helps end affairs, delivers self respect and Godly pride to a battered BS , empowers and renders POTENT a BS for too long scared and cowed by fear AND it make OM dodge righteou scrockery for a day or two. Whats not to love about exposure ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BTW, don;t be thinking " AH Bob's tough and a vet and he doesn;t know that MY marriage is definately over if I expose because my WS tells me so"

I was a scared, crippled , broken hearted man just over a year ago. I was told our M would definitely end if I exposed to OM GF.

And i called OM GF with shaking hand on Tesco's car park. I hurled into an ornamental bristle bush afterwards feeling I had ruined my own life.

Well, just over a year on, my baby is upstairs in my bed, warm and sleepy, waiting for me to taker her some coffee ( and if the kids are still asleep) some sugar <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

She loves me. I love her. We're working on recovery. I have the LUXURY of facing some recovery challenges now !! Not AFFAIR challenges.

And we owe SO MUCH of that to exposure. It is the ONE thing that utterly de-romanticizes affairs IME. As soon as you put down your exposing phone, the affair is busted as a sinful, dirty, shoddy and deeply unpleasant thing.

Hi, Bob. Thanks for the post. It's good to hear an encouraging story. I really do need to get onto some other threads and see what other folks' experiences have been. It's kind of tough to find a huge chunk of time, though, when you've got a wee one to take care of.

Speaking of which, we are home this a.m. b/c DD has a pretty good fever running. MIL is coming this afternoon so I can get to a work meeting. Any suggestions?

I did expose to the only person who I thought I could, with my very little info about the A - her dad. My WH was involved in a LTA with a OW 20 years younger than him, so this was pretty hard to breakup.

So, I called her dad and told him that I belived his dd was involved with a married man who was 50 yo. (she is 29) Her dad said he knew all about me, that I was a crazy, confused old woman (I guess compared to OW I was old, but I was not engaged in an A !!) He even taped our conversation.

I thought the timing was right and I made the call to expose her. My WH is a conflict avoider, that is why he got himself into this mess in the first place, that and many other reasons of course, and I am the opposite, kinda. If I think I am right and it is required, I can do whatever is necessary to make things "right". I was trying to save my marriage - as I kept telling her dad.

Well, I am pretty sure that this is what broke them up. It really appears to have ended. My exposing must have had an impact because this had been going on for years !! Now, granted my WH will not admit to anything. But there is just way way too much evidence and I know what went on.

Anyway, please be assured that this is the only way that YOU can stop the A. Plan A, which is meeting his needs that the OW now is doing, and Expose !! Had I not starting meeting my WH needs and stop LB ing, he never ever would have come around. This I know. My actions (LB ing) kept the A flourishing. And - my calling her dad put a huge dent in their A.

You can do this. It will work for you. If for no other reason then you know that you did everything that you could do to save your marriage.

Best regards - Car

MelodyLane, I did not say or mean to imply you weren't doing a good job with SM05. I apologize if it seemed that way.

I am closer to being in her shoes than being the expert you are and I was imagining how difficult it would be for her to be making such a decision.

If I were her I would want more information as to why you feel so passionately. I figured the more she knows about yours and others experiences, the more she will be inspired to take your experienced advice.

I hope I have convinced you of my positive intent.

Regards

Since I've been home this a.m. and DD has been sleeping a lot, I've started gathering up H's stuff. Put two trash bags of clothes and a box of ties/shoes out in the garage. Took all his clothes hanging in our closet and dumped them in the spare bedroom with his cds/dvds.

It was at my mom's suggestion that he shouldn't feel at home here, that he should know I'm not going to be pushed around, that I should demonstrate I am moving on with my life with or without him, even if I'm dying inside. Am I a horrible person for doing this?

SM,

Have you considered giving Marriage Builder's principles a try?

Mrs. Wondering

I have read up on Plan A and B, but I don't see how I can begin to meet his ENs when he's not living here and only visits DD for an hour or so every few days.

I'm at a loss of how to implement a plan A. He said the reason he has left is b/c I neglected him and didn't show him much physical affection. Plus, I "mothered" him, he said. I sure can't be all touchy-feely with him now. He would just recoil, like he did on the night he dropped the bomb. (I had made an advance toward him, and he actually faked food poisoning to get away from me! That's what prompted the conversation that ended with him walking out of the house headed straight for OW.)

The last time he was here, I tried to validate his feelings and show that I have been processing what he had said, about him hurting, etc. I even told him that I could forgive him for this A, because I can understand that he has felt something has been missing.


Here's what I've been trying to do:

No crying in front of him or begging him to come back. I don't want him to think I'm a doormat. Instead, I calmly say that while DD and I will be OK no matter what, we would prefer for us to be a family again.
I don't say I love him, but I have told him that I miss him.
I don't call him, unless it's something he needs to know about DD.
I don't nag him about anything. As an example, one night when we went to talk about everything, he stopped at a drive-thru and ordered both a burger AND chicken nuggets for himself to eat. Even though he is sensitve about the weight he has been gaining, I didn't say a word about it.
Except for blowing up at him Saturday, I've been pleasant and upbeat when he comes to see DD... looking nice, having a clean inviting home, asking about his day, talking about the cute things DD did, you know, small talk; offering him food/drink (as in, "why don't you take that chicken from the freezer? I bought it for you, and you know I won't eat it" I'm vegetarian), asking if there's anything of his that he needs. I try to be a little flirtatious, but I have no indication that he notices.
I have invited him to do family things with DD and me, but he has declined.
I am trying to act like I'm moving on with my life (making plans with friends, being busy, not hanging around moping when he comes to see DD.)

I have exposed the affair to everyone except his office, in part b/c I'm not sure how to crack that nut.

What else can I be doing?

Oh, boy did I screw up. Royally. Very badly. I feel AWFUL!

I came home from dance class and couldn't stop LBing. Broke ALL my goals. I told him I thought he was acting like a jerk for the way he is handling this situation. How he walked away from his family. How he's in such a hurry to rid himself of us. How he has said mean and hurtful things to me. How he seems so angry at me and seems to be blaming me for everything that went wrong.How he hasn't given me any money to help care for DD. How I'm the one who's here with DD who wants to make things work. Then he says, well he doesn't want to make things work. I say I just can't understand that and that I don't want a divorce. He says that he has tried everything he knows to try. That he has been thinking about this for a long time. That he has tried spelling it out for me. I tell him that deep down in his heart, he must know this is the wrong thing to do. Since I'm on a roll of badness and insanity, I bring up OW, how upset I am that she lied to my face. How she is NOT my friend. Then I say the big, BIIIIIIG no-no as he's walking out the door... "I would say screw her, but you probably already have. I'm sorry I said it, but that's what it looks like." He says he's not even going to dignify that with a response and leaves.

ARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!! WHY DID I SAY THAT??????? And what do I do now? It just came out without even thinking. I think part of the reason I was so angry tonight is that he hadn't called to check on DD as she's going through her first real illness. That when he came over tonight, he said he wants to set up a time to talk about a divorce agreement. I told him that I'm just not ready to talk about that yet and then apparently stewed over it until I got back home. Have I ruined everything? I feel UTTERLY and COMPLETELY hopeless.

((( Mommy ))) I have no real advice, as I am not an expert at this kind of stuff. Hopefully others who are will help you out soon. Don't beat yourself up over it though. It is a rollercoaster and sometimes you are up and sometimes (alot) you are down. Hang in there - it will get better.

Give your dd an extra hug.

Best regards - carnation

"I would say screw her, but you probably already have. I'm sorry I said it, but that's what it looks like." He says he's not even going to dignify that with a response and leaves."

Of course he is having a physical affair. I have no doubt about that. He is the typical WS liar. Then he will blame you, like saying he isn't going to "dignify" your accusation with a response.

So, now you have LB'd all over the place. Of course you know that that is not the MB plan. I know exactly how you feel, because I was not a good Plan A'er. I got too furious about all of the lies.

If I were you, I would put WH on the back burner and start taking care of yourself. You really need to do that. This is all too new and hurtful to you.

Realize that most WS's do come back to the marriage, so don't give up hope. But right now, you are not strong enough to do what you need to do. Give yourself a break, and step back from all of this for awhile.

I will be praying for you. It seems completely miserable now, but I promise you things will get better.

Good advice, believer. I do need to focus on me and DD and just step back from it all. The speed of this is just too hard to take.

up please

Hey SM,
I do too think you know a lot about doing Plan A, you got an A+ the first time you tried it! My (Formerly Wayward) H said just again tonight how my (inadvertent) Plan A worked to bring him back to the marriage. By that he meant that I started to look at myself and the things in the M that I was doing that were LB's, not meeting his EN's... we didn't have all the lingo back then, but I really did work on myself and listen to him. It made him feel that though he had justified our M as a finished mess, he couldn't go through with D until every stone was turned over. And I kept putting new stones out there. That is your job now.

I know your mom is well-meaning, loves you, and abhors you and your DD being treated this way, BUT do I think putting his clothes in garbage bags out in the garage is Plan A? No I don't... when my H moved out, I left almost everything the way it was. He could tell I was moving on in his absence because I learned to work the lawnmower & snowblower (multiple-season separations!) and started parking in the (ahhhh...) middle of the garage. I took his personal things off the bedroom dresser and stored them carefully in a box in the storeroom, and packaged up things I thought he would want in his new place in boxes for him to take with him. I left a lot of his stuff right where it was, because I didn't want to upset the children by removing it (it was hard enough on them), and as it turned out, it was handy that I hadn't taken over his closet when he moved home (twice!)

My point being, I think if I had put his clothes in bags in the garage, he would have seen that as an act of anger and disrespect. It would NOT have helped our strained but civil relationship at that point in time.

Just my two cents...

[color:"brown"] Galatians 5:22-26 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

[/color]
NTL

Well, NTL, I had a change of heart and ended up bringing his clothes back inside. I put everything in the spare bedroom.

I went to counseling yesterday, and she said something that really made me think and wonder how I could possibly meet H's ENs. We were talking about identity and feeling fulfilled, and I said, "well, I feel pretty fulfilled. I have a fulfilling job and lot of friends who really care about me. I go to my dance class and la leche league, etc. But H doesn't have all that."

For a while, his only friend in town is OW, and he doesn't do anything outside work. C said perhaps H's "loneliness" has nothing to do with me, and he was depending too much on me for his social needs.Perhaps H is the one who doesn't know how relationships work (like he accused me of).

If that's the case, where do I go from here?

SM05


I am personally oppossed to this line of thinking, and if you haven't been getting in your 15 hours of quality time I think it is fallacious. The next line from the C is 'you are not responsible for his unhappiness.'

Now granted, if you are an attentive and loving and appreciative wife and he's just a miserable stick in the mud, I might agree. However, you've previously admitted to neglecting his concerns and his needs. The result of that neglect is that he was feeling unloved and lonely.

Now, you know darn well that's no excuse for breaking his vows.

But, inside the marriage his expectations were not being met and he felt unloved and lonely.

You play a significant (not 100%, maybe not even 50%) role in meeting or not meeting those expectations.

Of course he has to communicate those expectations, and they have to be reasonable and moral. That's were his 50% or so comes in. And, he has to give back, not just take.

Please, don't go the route of his unhappiness is his own deal. That will push him further away and confirm what he thought in the first place.

Best of luck