and the voice message on LTC voice mail states that he is TDY from the 18th thru the 24th, the same time frame of the combat training so he must have gone too.... hmmmm... and h didn't... will be interested to hear back from him when he gets back if he returns my call. mlhb

Yeah, he went there. He will take care of your husband when he gets back.

Hang tight...just a few more days.

In His arms.

took the kids to their counseling session last night and the counselor had them leave the room and she spoke with me a few minutes alone (she did the same with h last time) and she said some good things that made sense and then she was saying how h and I cannot let OUR STUFF get mixed in with what we tell the kids. Ok, I can buy that. Then she was like, "because YOU and your H have a LOT OF STUFF, a LOT of anger at eachother and that is obvious." ok, I felt like saying "do you THINK I might be angry with him? Am I not justified to be angry with him?" I have never felt so betrayed in my entire life. I was kinda upset that I felt she trivialized it a bit but I guess I am not there for me but for my kids. Then I was like, H being angry... what the heck can he ba angry at me about, he is the one doing wrong.

Then I realized he is just now unleashing pent up anger at me from like 5 years ago! The first time we separated, and we did twice. He never forgave me for that. But I don't know if he can understand how horribly he was treating me and the kids and that is why I wanted him to leave. and after reading many things on this site I certainly see my part in our problems as well which I did acknowledge to him and he did notice the changes I was making. So I am wondering if a lot of what is going on right now, how he feels, how low he is, carrying on this affair (although he would probably say she is meeting some sort of needs of his and that he is happy with her, some maybe true, some fog stuff because she is a psycho) having no sense of morals to not even be sorry for breaking up someone's marriage (don't know if I could live with that guilt) is due to this venomous amount of anger and hatred he has towards me for the past separations. I think part of it does. I think he is so angry and hurt himself that he has lost all sense of himself and right and wrong, etc... does this make any sense?? mlhb

Yes it does. That being said, those issues of his wont be solved in marriage counseling. Those are HIS issues and he is going to have to deal with them on his own.

A marriage counselor we went to see said it very well. An IC is there to work with the individual, to help the individual. A MC is not there for the individual. There is a third entity called the marriage. And that MC is there to help that entity. It's like a third person in the room. And that counselor is trying to help that person, not necessarily the individuals.

The counselor for your kids is in the same vein. That counselor should be dealing with the kids and if you or your husband are out of line, then that should be brought up.

One question on something you said above...you said you two had separated several times before...that you asked him to leave due to his behavior. While separated, was there ever any other person? Did either of you date? I have a reason for asking this question.

In His arms.

well motorman, go grab some coffee and sit a minute, I will give you the scoop. I have to start at the beginning. H and I had a whirlwind relationship. we met in january 1996, were engaged in april 96, married in sept 96, and i was pregnant with twins by oct 96. H was just 22 when we married, I was 25.

H didn't necessarily want kids right away but I at that time was the dominate one in the relationship and talked him into it. I can see my role now and how I was very dominate. after the kids came I started noticing a LOT of anger in h. He was very responsible, worked 2 jobs to help us out. But I think his frustrations started back then. I was so not relationship smart. My role models were parents who were not good role models. I thought marriage would be all hunky dory and we would be great and we would always be together and everything would be together together together. I also was not very responsible at that time. I essentially in the first few years of our marriage ruined our credit. This angered h because he is very good with credit. But I controlled the money and that was a huge mistake.

So, eventually little things ticked us each off (having no idea of things like EN's) and we would stuff them until they were overflowing. Then h went into corrections in the prison system and that really hardened him. His anger increased and he would talk really bad to me and the kids but either "not remember" doing it or think it was ok to do it. He would act like it was nothing. This of course ate at me and got me feeling really down.

By fall 2001 I was just so frustrated. We never spent any time together, this little dream I had in my head of what our marriage would be was not what our marriage was at all. The few times he did want to do something together I didn't want to. Looking back now, knowing what I know now, and knowing from what he told me is EN's are I was not meeting a single one very well. So it is no wonder he was stuffing feelings. And mine weren't being met because his weren't I am sure.

Having no experience in what we should do (we had briefly tried MC once but h would not continue going.the MC said that h was one of the angriest people he had ever seen and wanted to see him alone to help him learn healthy ways to cope) I thought it would be best if we separated. Now, at this time also I realize I was actually carrying on an EA. Never realized it at the time. But this friend met some needs of mine that were just dying to be met. Things I had begged my h to meet but he said he just wasn't that kind of guy (to be affectionate or give compliments, etc.) So having this friend and seeing there was someone out there who could meet those needs I wanted away from h for awhile.

H acted like this came as a total shock for him, he thought the state our marriage was in was fine. hmph. H was devastated to say the least. he was very upset about us not being together. we (I) decided I didn't know how long the sep would be so he got an apartment with his friend. we seemed to get along better with him gone and we started doing some things together. he was gone from november to february. He wanted to come home but I wasn't sure I was ready. I didn't see enuff of the changes I needed to see to have him home but I did miss him. So he came home. BIG mistake. I was not ready and the changes weren't there like they should have been. His being home just made me angry. i was resentful. I wasn't ready. So, by May I had typed up a sep agreement on the computer. He was very angry about having to leave again, said I didn't give him enough of a chance to make changes. I felt he knew what my needs were and why was it so darn hard to meet them? Bottom line is I was not ready for him to be home to begin with so I should not have agreed to let him come home. Hindsite 20/20 huh?

Ok, so when he left this time he was PO'd. In my twisted mind at the time I thought he could move out, we could continue working on things, and start fresh from square one like dating. Well, he was more like FU b*tch. he was not happy at all. He felt abandoned and pushed out by me again. he had to get an apartment again and everything. THIS is when he changed big time. Something in him snapped and he was out drinking all the time and acting irresponsibly. And yes, at THIS time he had a one night stand. He told me he knew what my biggest hurt in the world is, betrayl and cheating, and he did it to hurt me and hurt me and hurt me. He wanted to hurt me as he said I did him by making him leave again. (he also knew of the EA friendship and was hurt by that too). I don't know if he slept with anyone else but he did spend time with and call other women. I was devastated, and started IC. I had never been so hurt in my life and realized what a huge mistake I had made. he would explode at me at times as he does now. but by the middle of summer we had started talking again and by the end of summer he and i and the kids went out west to visit his family. It wasn't exactly all warm and fuzzy but we were having sf again. H was trying but I could see he just didn't know if he wanted to be with me or not. I wanted so badly to be with him and to make our marriage work.

he moved back home in september of 2002 when the company I worked for closed. I was unemployed now and we didn't want to lose the house. so he came home. again, we were not ready to be back together ya know? but circumstances pushed us back into the same house. it was ok for a few months. H was still not the same h I once knew. still worked at and went to the bar. and i was now home and very depressed about losing my very good paying job. I ended up being on unemployment for a long time due to the job sitch in this area. H hated that. he wanted me working and bringing in a paycheck. Plus, I was so depressed over the job loss I started letting myself go. I gained a lot of weight and just didn't care anymore. H started getting more and more angry with me. eventually he started sleeping on the couch never toughing me. the 2 times we did have sf he would just lay there, no feeling or anything. Eventually he wouldn't even touch me at all. fall of 2003 he started something with another woman. on again off again. by fall of 2004 he was starting the affair he is in now. it was on again off again as well as she had only been married 4 months when she pursued my h. and he was vulnerable to it. she went back and forth with her h until he finally filed d papers a few months ago. and my h left in july, but no papers. By may I had found this site and realized all I had done wrong, learned about EN's and put myself into full overdrive of becoming the best person I could be for me and, for my h if he chose to stay. I have lost almost all the weight I gained, work out everyday, got the house and finances in order, started college (which h didn't agree with me doing at all but...) worked very hard at starting to meet h's EN's. Before he left he said he did notice the changes and that they were great but he still wanted nothing to do with me. He also said the past year he had been having very disturbing thoughts, would act upon them if it weren't for the kids, and was just not caring anymore. He said he couldn't justify what he had done, had no more respect for himself, etc.

So when he left I exposed big time. That is when the major anger at me began again. And since he has been in full swing with her, his anger at me is venomous, and nasty, and awful. He wants nothing to do with me. We can barely have more than a minute or 2 conversation because he doesn't even want to hear my voice. He spends all his time with her. He has to move from the friends he was staying with because they want no part of this sitch so in a month he has to find a place to stay. he cannot move in with ow cuz he can't have the kids around her, we are still married and I can prevent them from being around her, he has not enuff money to pay for and furnish an apartment. He only hangs out certain places with her around people who are "ok" with what he is doing. she is a psycho who is just obssessed with h. stepped on who ever she had to get him because she wanted him no matter what. sent him text messages last month, 1600 of them! she has really got him hooked and wrapped in a web. her family nor his want anything to do with them, etc..... and each day his anger at me gets worse and worse and worse. each day that goes by he gets lower and lower and more entwined. I have never seen such a thing. She even comes before his kids most times.

so that is that mortor. This is why I don't think this can be saved. I don't know if I should do a plan A or B or what the heck I should be doing. And when the military talk to him he will be even more mad at me! I really try to keep my anger at him in check. But sometimes I say or do things to him I should not. But then I don't care ya know? I just ordered the book SAA hoping that will help me. And maybe I should do some IC again. But his anger is now in full force, all the anger from all those years is coming out at me now. Once he left and got back with her it unleashed itself full force.

there ya go mortor, analyze away! mlhb

bump..... for other input as well.

mlhb, not very "up" on your story, but based upon what you've written here, I think you need to ask yourself two basic questions and, depending on the answers, take action.

1. What part, if any, does belief in Jesus Christ play in your life and in your husband's life?

2. Do YOU want him back even if he were to change his mind about THIS Other Woman?

Your marriage is already over, it's just a matter now of when you either "Formalize it" or JOINTLY attempt to recover and rebuild a new NEW marriage. It makes NO sense to get back together and continue the "old ways." You, and your children, deserve better than that, as does your husband and his pain over your affair. '

Obviously, "two wrongs don't make a right." While his seeking a "revenge affair" is not uncommon, it is WRONG.

bumped for my #1 advice guy mortor <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

So, I have been re reading this site. I have ordered SAA. After reading my "story" what exactly would I be doing if I were to Plan A?? I read plan A in a nutshell on the board but what EXACTLY would I be doing in my specific case in a Plan A?? I know what H said his EN's are, but most of those I cannot meet with him not living here and him being in an affair. Some I can show I am meeting, ie., the house in order and being freshened up with new paint, etc (the domestic thing), the financial thing (having them in order, etc) the physical attractiveness thing (is apparently very imp. to him and I am full blown working on it, 60 pounds on gone so far, work out every day, tan, getting tattoo on lower back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> new hair, etc.... taking care of me). But what else can I do in my specific unique situation here. cuz once the military talks to him he is gonna be full blown mad at me again... so please, INPUT NEEDED HERE FOLKS!!!! thanks, mlhb

bumpity bump....

Rebuke taken. I shall bow out.

God bless.

Oh no! that wasn't directed at you at all! Mortorman has been helping me with the military stuff and asked me about the history. I know he is usually not on on the weekends so I usually keep bumping my weekend posts so they are up there for him on Monday.

as far as your response, I appreciate your input. Jesus Christ plays a big role in my life and our whole church has been praying for the situation. This has just become such a big mess. My H is angry at me for many things in our marriage pretty much from day 1. The EA is the least of what he is mad at from what he has told me but I am sure that is part of it. I am just at a loss for what I should be doing right now. Plan A, Plan B, Plan D?? Just looking for input in what looks to me to be hopeless and am ready to get rid of my anger and hatred and move on in a healthy way. Just so not sure what to do is all. Please, I was not ignoring you or your input. It is all valuable to me. mlhb

just bumping for the influx of people tonight and tomorrow morning :-) mlhb

bumping for monday

where's that mortor, vaca again???:-)

bumped so mimi can read :-) thank you. mlhb

mortor, talked to h today. He said he was not needed to go to combat training because he won't be in actual combat. He is going over as a fire fighter. He said a lot of the guys he knows who have been in for years are going over and didn't go to that training. He said the ones that went had to go because they are going over to do something different than he is... hmmmm.... so he is still going I guess??? I hope he is. still waiting to hear from LTC for any input. mlhb still working on that patience thing can ya tell??? haha

bumping again :-)

Have you contacted LTC??

In His arms