Shaden, you can handle it. Your W is not concerned with wrecking the OMW's wife or she would not have had an affair with her H. Please don't let them distract you frm doing the right thing. She is already mad, might as well do the right thing. Real nice of your MIL to meddle in your life like this. I will say a prayer for you, Shaden, hang in there, my friend.

Sorry - I just noticed you've had NC for a few months now. I guess some withdrawal may take longer than others.

Hopefully OM fessed up which would be better anyway. Hopefully you were not painted as some crazed, jealous husband whou overreact to WW and OM's "friendship". You may still have to tell your side of the story...if OMW will believe you. It's not your job to convince her. You may just need to insure she has got the truth and portray your compasion for her situation. She can take the facts as you state them however she wants.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

I am concerned that since the affairees were forewarned that the OM is busy spinning the story to his W. The sad thing is that she will want to believe him. I hope Shaden can correct the story if it has been spun.

I have a suspicion that contact has never ended. That would explain why his W is soo scared of the OMW finding out after all this time. Sure, no WW welcomes such exposure, but a truly repentent one would not so vehemently avoid it. That would explain why this recovery seems so off track. Hope I am dead wrong....

As OMW contacted me right away and could barely talk through her tears, I don't think I will have a problem with getting the correct story.

And I do have a bit of proof on hand. Plus OMW knows me and knows that I wouldn't be making up a story to cause trouble or anything like that.

I know it sounds naive, but I truly believe NC has been kept. I just think that the remorse is not there yet, and the history with her Mom... everything from her past has put her in survival mode.

She says she didn't want it out to protect our kids... OMW is known to be a gossip... but whether she tells everything I don't know.

But if I suggest that she should have thought of the kids before she chose this path, then I am throwing it in her face and I don't want to move on. I feel like I'm fighting a no-win battle. And now with her main confidante... her Mom... having such a low moral standard... and this is someone who faithfully goes to church and preaches about faith... I just don't know what to expect now.

Shaden

Are you headed to meet with her, Shaden? What did she say?

Shaden, and you and I both know that excuse is nonsense. I don't think she believes this for a minute; she is simply hoping to convince you. If she were worried about your children knowing this, she wouldn't have done this. It will be sad if your children find out, but if that happens it will your w's fault for having an affair.

Hang in there Shaden, I am praying and hoping like crazy this "storm" dosn't last long. I fully believe you are doing the right thing and hope OMW will be ok. At least you can help guide her here for support when she is ready.
You are armed with wisdom from this site that can help!

I hope you are ok and the night dosn't get out of hand.

Be Well my friend!

Time to be selfish. I would advise you not to invite her here. Nothing could be worse than to have OM appear here. You are our friend here and we do not want to share you.

Inform her and move on. Let their marriage take care of itself. You, as a married man, should not be offering support to a married woman in crisis anyway. Besides, you've got enough crisis in your own life.

Mr. Wondering

I'm back.

The talk went well... I think I found out more about the A from that talk then from 4 months with my W.

Mr. Wondering... I mentioned the website, but didn't tell her exactly what it was... she said she doesn't really use internet much. I told her she can call me if she really needs to but that she has to get a female friend to talk with and lean on. I am aware of the danger and will protect myself from it.

Melody, I think I know the reason why she was so afraid of me informing... so that I wouldn't hear the truth. I realize this truth is slanted from the OM's view, but a lot of it makes sense. I expected that my W initiated and he said the same thing. He feels she was interested in the money and cars and doesn't want to have to work. When he realized this, he realized it was wrong. (He manages an Infinity car lot and always drives a nice car... has enough money for cruises every year, etc.) I have a pretty good income, but our debt is so big everything goes on that.

She was devastated, but it sounds like they are going to try to recover and that he is willing to do whatever it takes... I wish I could say the same thing with my W. He will tell her if there is any contact and will let her know all of his whereabouts and is going to MC. He had called off the A because he realized what he was going to lose. He also did not tell her because of the same reason... but his guilt was getting the better of him and was resulting in health problems.

He also said that my W asked her Mom to call him... that she had promised she would if I was ever going to tell OMW... my W told me it was her Mom's choice. She is even selling out her Mom.

I don't know what to do... I don't even want to look at my W right now. I heard a few other things about the A as well.

I'm afraid that I am going in the opposite direction to what I should be.

I won't make any rash decisions, but I just don't know about the future.

Harmonie... good to hear from you. I'll get a reply on our other thread back to you tomorrow. I'm just too tired to night to think anymore about this.

Thanks, everyone. I should have listened a lot sooner... but now it's done and I'll see if there is any strength to our wedding vows. (oh yeah... those vows were already shattered a few months ago)

Shaden

Good job, Shaden, You have done a good thing tonight.

Can I make another suggestion? I think its real important to be firm and truthful with your W about everything you know. Don't make any moral judgements, but let her know exactly what you know, no matter how unpleasant. It is important that she not be protected from the reality of her poor choices. Plus, she will respect you all the more for taking a firm stand on it.

And shame on her mother for taking part in all this.

Your wife needs to hear this and everything else the OM said about her.

Shaden,

My WW's OM broke things off with my wife as well. It doesn't bother me at all that things went down like that. This final secret being out in the open may allow your WW to finally hit rock bottom and begin recovery. She may have never wanted you to discover that you were (to her fogged out state of mind) her consolation prize. She may have been or be stuck in withdrawal because ending things with OM was not her decision. It was out of her control and it was not her choice. IMO, a WS that chooses to end contact has an easier time coming back to a marriage because it was THEIR decision/choice. That is not to say she's not where she belongs and you can not have a fruitfull recovery. Your WW is fogged out...be patient and see if you can push for some radical honestly in the next few days/week.

First step. Maintain you LB's. Regardless how this works out control your emotions to the best of your ability. Do not allow yourself to feel insecure as her 2nd choice. You are #1 in God's eyes and when the fog clears her love for you can and will return just as any recovered couple here.

Have faith. Have hope. Keep up the good fight. You will make it.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

One more thing...IMHO, you should put the MIL calling OM issue behind you. Chalk it up to WW fogged out stupidity and her mother just wanted to make WW happy (and at least WW didn't call OM herself and break no contact). Later in recovery you can expect apologies...it may be a "selfish demand" to REQUIRE it now. Stay calm and let todays events soak in a few days. Besides today wasn't about your marriage...it was about YOU doing the right thing. Pat yourself on the back and move on with your issues.

BTW, I am not suprised WW warned OM. It is typical WS behavior. It took my WW a few months to stop defending OM. Even after OM "dumped" my wife. I could barely criticize the jerk without triggering her defenses (interestingly, I discoverd later that OM could not criticize me either...got to love the cake eaters wanting the best of both worlds)

Good luck again,
Mr. Wondering

Thank you for the advice... it really helped me this morning reading it.

After I got home last night, my WW and I didn't talk at all... she went and had a bath, I went to bed. Didn't sleep much. I found her at 4:30 downstairs on the couch... I brought her down a pillow. She woke up, I asked her what is going to happen now... she just said "It's 4:30". I said ok and went back upstairs. Real dumb of me to think that this would be important enough to discuss at 4:30... especially since she doesn't have a job right now and has all the time in the world to sleep when she wants... (just venting here to avoid at home).

I couldn't sleep so I showered and came to work.

Mr. Wondering... I believe my list of questions seems irrelevant now... I received a lot of my answers last night... got more than I have or probably will ever get from my W. Right now I just want her to leave... but at the same time, I still can't stand the thought of being without her. I love her still, but I don't want the rest of my life like this. Based upon her mother's history, I have to believe this is going to be my life if I stay with her.

I'll hold on for a while before making any rash decisions. Maybe you'll find me posting how wonderful everything is in a couple of days...LOL.

Shaden

Mr. Wondering... I'm wondering what Mrs. Wondering would have been expecting/wanting to see from you at this stage. What made her come out of the fog?

Shaden

I sent this email to WW this morning from work... just wanting to know if the tone was ok and if there were any LB's in it.

"Hi,

I don't know if we'll get a chance to talk for a while,but I thought I would just let you know a couple of things...

OM was relieved and thankful for being pushed into confessing. His guilt was starting to affect his health, but he was scared to confess because of not wanting to lose OMW. He had re-discovered what he had and was afraid of losing it.

They are going to work on their marriage... get counselling, etc.. OMW was devastated and shocked... but she still loves him and wants to rebuild.

They have decided to keep this quiet... except that OMW wants to be able to confide in my SIL <my brother's wife, not W's sister> (that was her first choice)... but they both felt they should ask me as they don't want to make things difficult on me. I said I would speak to you, because I had not intended on telling anyone else and you don't want anyone to know. I believe they are not going to tell their kids. The only one they have told is OM's sister, who advised them to get to a counsellor immediately... don't wait for a year like she and her EX did.

I learned a lot last night... probably more than what I've learned in the 4 months since I found out. OM is willing to share whatever OMW needs to know, is willing to be accountable for all of his time to her, and will inform her immediately if you make contact with him. He is willing to work hard at rebuilding their marriage... whatever it takes because it is important to him... he knows what he stands to lose if he doesn't.

Let me know what you want to do about (my brother) and SIL.

<Shaden>"

I guess my main question is whether or not the subtle "threat" ... "he knows what he stands to lose..." was too much.

Shaden

Shaden, I think that question puts all the power into her hands and give her the impression that you are at her mercy. If she senses you feel guilt [inappropriate] for making her angry, she will use it as ammunition against you. But must you place yourself at the mercy of a fogged out person? Instead of waiting around for the scraps of a fogged out WS, why not set the agenda yourself? And since she is the guilty party, why not let her come to you and ask "what is next?" Let her come to you for a change. That would be preferable to giving her the impression that she can control you by simply going down and sleeping on the couch.

Isn't part of the problem here her belief that she can manipulate you with a little bit of anger? If she is able to manipulate you, that means she is in control of the marriage, and I don't know if that is such a good thing, Shaden. In fact, I think that is a terrible thing because women do not respect men they can run over. And for the most part, our love is very contingent upon the respect we feel.

This is why I think it would do your marriage a world of good for your W to hear everything that you heard last night. Let her hear your disgust and disappointment. If she faces the ugly consequences of her actions it may wake her up and give her a new respect for you.

But Shaden, don't let the lunatics run the asylum. She has been in control of this ship for far too long and is not fit to be the captain. Take control of your marriage and let her know what you think the best course of action should be. Don't expect a fogged out person to make that decision.

Hi Melody...

Don't you ever sleep???

Yes I hear what you are saying... and I completely agree about the respect issue. I am just having a hard time knowing how to balance "meeting needs" and gaining respect.

This is my main issue to solve... I seem to think that it is black and white... that to gain respect I have to be cold and tough... which turns to indifference... so I turn the opposite way and "give" which makes me look like a "wimp".

I can't seem to get the balance that giving does not = being walked on. Maybe this is the years of "Christian" teachings we are given... atleast the typical teaching in so many churches... God first, then everyone else, then yourself last. Even though I don't believe this... I believe that yourself needs to be equal to everyone else in order to be able to love and give properly... but I have years of "brainwashing" to get over.

I do intend to tell her what I was told if there is ever another chance at discussion... that is what is so ridiculous about all of this... we have rarely discussed the A or our R... but the few times I have, I am pushing or controlling. I know it is manipulation... she doesn't want to have to face the facts of what she did, but it's tough getting past this without LBing.

Yes, I shouldn't have said anything to her at 4:30. I didn't go down with that intention... I went to the computer because I couldn't sleep. When she opened her eyes, I guess it was just something to say... after I asked her if she was ok.

I do not intend to bring up anything for the next few days... just do my own thing and see if she asks me about the meeting.

Shaden