Dazed- I believe motorman is the expert on here as to custody for BH. In yours and my case the WW's are leaving the home. they have also commmitted adultery so don't see how you could lose kids all together. yes you will split assets etc, but look up motormans thread regarding custody and BH

bigwave - I think the custody for BH info may be easier to find by reading Mortarman's posts on Gramn's thread from a few months back.

Okay what do I do next???
I have avoided emailing and calling the WW today other than to tell her I delivered the kids home from school. Should have scored points by caring for the kids. Her voice was soft and somber for the duration of our brief phone call. Normally she is sharp and qick with me unless feeling bad about us. I had been emailing her and talking to her on the phone several times a day. Steve told me she complained to him about that so I'm backing down. Steve said to not smoother her right now because it makes me less attractive to her.
Not sure where WW and OM went today for lunch. I have exposed them and caught them in the past few days at several places around town, so there meeting points must now become fare more secretive and the degree of difficulty has been increased. I decided to hide out near there work place today and see if they would try to meet near the street that leads to his apartment. Which is what they have been doing. No sign of them. I think if they met they had to miss lunch all together because the other direction out of there work is where I caught them last friday and I told WW that others have been seeing them and reporting them to me. No other ways to get to restaurants. They must be really really paranoid about meeting now. However, they still are doing it. This is all so sickening to me. Will all of you say a prayer that my WW wakes up and the fog will lift forever and soon. Last night and this morning I feel that we really made some progress in the right direction. Now she has to go back to work and there that basturd is ready to spin her head all back into his favor.
I know many of you say to expose them to there work HR...
Do I call her work and drop expose them to her HR admin or do I wait to see what she does tonight? I'm so scared that the HR exposure will blow up and blow me up to. Is there anyone that has experienced doing this and if so did you bare the brunt of the aftermath?
WW's uncle died this week and the funeral is Saturday. WW said she can't get off work Friday to leave but i could take my daughter and we could go. What kind of drunken logic is that. Obviously she is looking for a way to get me the stalker off her back so she can hook up with sorry worthless OM. D-day was 9/6/05 and nothing has really changed for us. I need help coming up with plan. She seems to respond positive to me when I pull away from her. Like last night and the other night. I start talking divorce and she comes to me for loving care and comforting then starts telling me she is confused and don't know if she really should leave or not. If I start in by saying I want to save our marriage, she runs the other way and starts telling me why we can't save it. It's all nuts to me. I have not talked to her yet about her call with Steve. I guess I have to wait until tonight to see if she wants to talk about it. She really did not want to talk to him but did it to entain me plus of the cost that i already committed to. Please someone give me examples of how you exposed your spouse to there employeer.

I have another question:
How should i contact OM's parents? His mother is a librian at my kids school and my daughter says she is bugging her while at school. OM's mom is asking my DD if she is okay and is trying to be clingy with her. This really upsets me. My kids already know to much. Now this crap. OM's soon to be EXW tells me OM is very tight with his parents. How should I expose the truth to them? Should I write a really good letter about how her son is detroying my family and give her details to make her think about how wounderful her little boy is and not to mention my wife. I'm thinking the parents that are really tight with OM will have a major affect on him and his hopes for the future. What do you all think???
Sorry about all the post today. Just can't shut my mind off on this stuff. I love my wife so much...

She runs away from the loving attention because she is hurting you and she knows it. She comes closer to you when you bring up divorce because she wants to cake eat. she wants you around to meet cetain needs while still engaging in the affiar.Trust me I went through this crap for 2 months before finally kicking my ww out.As long as you meet her needs and she sees om she won't stop. she is getting everything she wants. I made the same mistake of tring to meet my ww needs and she took advantage of it. Remeber you are not dealing with the same person you married. She is now all fogged up. I finally came to the relisation that I had to let her see what life with om would be like without me around to help her emotionally or physically.

As long as you can take it stay in this stage of plan A. but it sounds like some planB might be in order.Go dark on her and spend your energy with your child. As long as you stalk she will continue to get off on having two men fight for her.STOP.

UPDATE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This morning WW tells me that she's moving out this week end. She says she wants a 1 month separation to figure everything out. She says she hopes after a littel time away from me that she will miss me so much that she wants to come home and repair our marriage.
Get a load of this--- Her plan is to move in OM's apartment with our two kids. She claims that OM will move back to his parents house so she and the girls can move in. She claims that OM's dad is okay with this but OM's dad wants her to pay rent. Well first of all why would she need to pay rent for a 1 month leave??? 1 month my [censored]... Also, I'm suppose to believe that OM would not be there... yah right. My kids go to bed every night by 9:30PM. That would leave plenty of time for WW and OM to share quality time missing me I'm sure..... The big snag that WW has not even thought about....My daughter know's what mom is doing and the OM is the cause. Daughter will NEVER accept OM... I bet WW will never get our daughter to set foot in OM's apartment again even if OM was out of the picture. My daughter is already tramatized by WW actions with OM. Why on earth would WW think that it would be okay with the kids to live in OM's apartment... Jeezzz she is nuts...
What should I do? We are suppose to work out all the details tonight after work. I need some expert help for our break up meeting tonight.
I think WW should go and leave me the kids. I want her out at this point. Let her take her cloths and make-up and hit the door. However, she wants the kids. I think she wants furnature and probably even our dog. What should I let her have. I told her if I let her have everything, kids, furnature, money, car, etc. and she has OM to meet her needs, why would she ever want me again for anything other than child support and alomony. That's how I see it. I need help putting some rules into play on this separation of hers. Should I get legal in on this and get restraining orders against OM and parents for my kids? Is there still such a thing as legal separation where I get custody. I know the plan A tact is to not create love busters but how fare do let her go?????????HELP

Hi KS,

Check out and implement all of your legal options ASAP. If I were in this situation I would do everything within my power to ensure that she leaves with nothing but her personal items.

This is absolutely un-acceptable and you have to set boundaries immediately.

Dazed- I basically had to do the same thing as KDH. Told WW to get out, she moved in with OM, lasted 4 weeks, asked to come back. Said all right things, NC etc..lasted 3 days left again, now moving into a single wide trailer with OM and OM's son from his first marriage. I love my wife, but she is not the same woman I knew even 2 years ago. Plan b has been very benificial for me and my DD. It's a hard concept to let someone go, however, I wish her the best in the life she has chosen, I will be fine.

dazed- totally unacceptable arrangement. OM should never be around your children. even during visitation etc. You should set your boundries and as Cat said she leaves with her clothes,personal items. but you and the kids are in the home.

UPDATE:
Friday after work I suggested the WW leave by herself. She broke down in tears and said she still loves me and really wants to stay but is scared that we will not work out our problems and nothing will change. I told her if she loved me then she was doing a great job of hiding it. She wanted me to hold her and she proclaimed her love for me. She wishes that we could have made this attempt to connect before she fell for OM. She is scared to leave and never be able to come back to me. She is scared that if she stays nothing will change and she will have missed out on chances with OM. She can not make any descion. After almost two and half hours of this I had to stop and go get DD something to eat. While me and DD was out WW left the house. She did not return until 6AM Saturday. Crying and asking me to hold her. She is so screwed up in the head... OM must really be working her head over big time. I held her and let her cry herself to sleep. Once we had time to talk with out our DD present, I explained that we have to change this life of limbo and no direction. I told her we have to make a couple of choices now so we can stop this cycle of pain that is ruining all of us. 1) Stop seeing him, and give us a chance to fall in love again. 2) You leave the house and not see me at all. Maybe you could then determine if you love me and miss me enough to come home.
See said she changes her mind several time a day. She is becoming physically sick. She is nausus, shaky, can't eat, cant' sleep, constantly minstrating, even passed out at work last Friday. I have constantly told her to stop this torcher and we can work it all out. However, OM is pressuring her so badly. Tells her he loves her and will do anything for her. More promises to hold her back. After another four hours of brutal honest talk about WW, OM, and me, iIt seemed that Saturday she was really to commit to working on us. Then while picking up the hosue she seen my book "surviving an affair". Inside the cover was a print out on "Plan A & Plan B" she took the stuff with her to the bath room and spent about half hour reading. When she came out her mind set was no anger. She thinks that I have been following a plan to get her back. Which is some what true, but obviously she can't tell if I'm genuwine of not now. So she was really touchy and did not want me to talk to her. She set around the house until 4 PM when she finally took a shower. Again we talked about a direction for us to take to stop this limbo of pain. She agreed but again says she can't figure it out. We went over the same thing again. I love you and want so very much for you to come to me with an open heart and mind and say (Let's fall in love again, and rebuild us). However, I have to have all of you heart and mind. And you have to have all of mine as well. She agreed and said she could not do that yet. She left home again around 6PM and returned a lttle after 8PM balling and shaking. She was an emotional wreck. After trying to calm her for a bit, she became sick and nausus again. I asked if she had taken anything. Yes, while at OM's apartment she says she took atleast 10 head ach pills in front of him. I called OM to confirm what the bottle was. He hung up on me. I even left him a message asking for him to please call me and tell me what the pills were. Of course OM cares so much that he did not call back or nothing. I held WW for the rest of the night on the couch to comfort her. She awoke once and said she had to leave. I told her no. She seemed to calm down and go back to sleep. Sunday morning around 6:35 we awoke and I went upstairs to check on my DD. I lay down with her for a bit to make sure she was okay. While upstairs I heard the dog start barking. The bark when some one is at the down. I run down stairs to she WW car pulling off. I quickly got into my car and taking a direct path to OM's apartment I meet her in his parking, As she started to walk towards his door, I asked her to come home. She told me to leave and why are you here. I replied I love you and why are you here. She got into her car and as she pulled away yelled at me, this is why I'm nuts. I quickly returned home. WW has yet to come back. What else was I suppose to do. Obviously he is dangerous to my WW. How keep thinking how can I through her out while she is so mentally and now physically a wreck.
Please Advice...

One the one hand, your wife is confused and hurting over this, which is good. But on the other, she is a classic cake eater. She wants to have you in her back pocket while she pursues OM. I think you are doing great letting her know she has a choice to make. She seems to be one that will wake up with a good Plan B. It is probably too early for Plan B, but you may want to keep it in your mind.

Lastly, I have yet to see rational discussions work with WS. Talking does not seem to do work with them in the end. I believe actions is what bring the WS back into the fold--when they do. So I am not sure what good all the R talks are doing, but who knows.

In any event, you seem to be doing a good job.

UPDATE:
Sunday around 12PM WW called asking to bring lunch for me and DD. I accepted telling her that would be very nice. With in the half hour WW was home and we were eating together all three of us. I made sure that the atmosphere was fun and friendly. All three of us shared a laugh or two and played with our little dog while we ate. Having cheered up my DD she went to the basement to play video games while me and WW talked. While watching tv I directed our talk towards a (plan B) type of agreement. Our plan is WW is to move out of the house for atleast 21 days. I suggested 40, WW wanted 21. Her idea is to move in with OM in his apartment. Because DD knows who he is and where he lives, WW is not to make DD even go over there. Also no contact between OM and DD at all. I suggested that WW could pick up the kids and they could go do things together with out OM and me. I told her I would never try to keep her away from our kids and I would never used them against her. Our descions affect our kids but it is between you and me. She agreed. I ask why she thought she had to move right in with OM. She said she just needs to know about him. If there is really anything there. She claims she is not going to tell OM of her self imposed time limit. Because she agrees that he maybe just pretending about who he really is. His complete lack of will to protect her during several dangerous situations has really stressed her thinking about just how much he cares about her. The time I aproached them at his apartment and he hid in the corner and told her to deal with me while he called the cops. The time I caught them at lowes parking lot and he speed away leaving her to deal with me, and finally when she took 10 head ach pills in front of him and he let her leave. Then I called him and asked for his help to tell us what she took and he never replied or called back came over or nothing. These events has her now thinking that the major character flaws that OM soon to be EXW was reporting may be true. Sorry about the rambling. So, she agreed that if she came home to me in the 21 days or less that she would take all the extreme measures to break away from him and give us a chance to fall in love again. No surprise lawyers, bills, or bank account tricks. She started crying and said she could never be that kind of person to just be using time to attack me. She is very worried that I will not take her back when she is ready to come home. We held each other and shared some laughs as we spoke about good times while making our plan. I again re-assured her that I would give her all of my heart to make her happy if she would do the same for me. I'm not pretending, and over time she will see that the changes I have began to make are not just a game to get her back but the life I choose to live. I think she is finally starting to realize that I an for real. I decided that I would take our DD out of the house for some time to allow WW to get her personal items and go. This way it was less dramic on me and our DD. Before I left I told WW that I did not think we should have any contact between us that way she would know if she really missed me or not. She really did not want that. I told her that she needed to know about the OM and know if she could live with out me. We should needed time apart. She asked if she could call and or email me if she needed. I said I would just have to see what is best for me. It may be to painful to one way or the other. Yes, I waffled on the complete abstance of a Plan B. Because I'm not sure if severing all contact is the right thing. Isn't that what WW and OM is suppose to do and in thee or six weeks the withdraw subsides. So, how is taking the same approach going to bring my wife home to me? I understand the missing me part, but i need help seeing the picture I guess.
The WW called at 8:45PM last night from OM cell phone and did not even block the number! WOW... She wanted to make sure the kids were okay and that I had feed them, helped them with home work, got grocerys and so on. I was breif with her and gave the phone to my DD to talk to her. When we got home I explained the plan to our DD. I asked that she be loving and open with mom and atleast talk to her. She asked about asking mom to come home. I told her that is fine but understand that mom is not staying about home because of dad and mom stuff, not because of you. DD felt bad and wanted to tell WW good night at 9:45 PM so I dialed OM cell phone and she answered. I did not talk just let our DD say good night and she loves mom very much.
This morning at 8:15 AM I recieved this email from WW.
well-
i think this strategy u have
must work. i cried myself
to sleep about 3. i miss u
& everyone.
21 days-yea right.
tt ya later.

I did not reply so she called looking for me at 9:30 AM. Because of 15 minutes of sleep last night myself, I called in to work this morning to take the morning off. She called the house and we spoke for a couple of minutes. She was disappointed that I did not go to work. I guess I just added to her guilt. She said she was sorry and asked if i needed her to call back. I said thanks for calling to check on me but, I'll be okay. Just need some time to rest and clear my head.
So, do I go straight into the plan B no contact, or very limited contact. I don't want her in and out of my life while with OM and she knows that. But I'm still on her mind while with OM, there situation will just as stressed as he made it for me and WW. This time the tables are turned on OM and he now has to deal with my WW sad and depressed. No more insulated bubble of fun and fantasy, now its reality and stress. I could use some more advise. Also thanks to all of you for your help thus far.

Well, I think you need to do a little research and look at the outcomes of people here who have tried doing a plan B with "modifications".....there is probably no surer bet of the results that you are going to get....do you want to even hear the numbers?

I am admittedly not an expert and would not even classify myself as a "novice" when it comes to these MB plans, but I think you should either do a PLAN B or don't do a PLAN B....it is my observation, that those with the most successful outcomes of PLAN B (namely marital recovery initiation) are the ones who do it by the book.....there are no short cuts here....YOu seem like you are not ready for PLAN B...truthfully, I think you are bordering on "doormat" behavior, but that is just my personal opinion, and I have been wrong before here.

DO IT RIGHT, OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL....THE PROOF IS HERE OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU MODIFY THE PLANS....

For the principles to work, you have to work the principles.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dazed~

This situation is NOT going to do what you want it to...if you remain in contact with your WW, she will not miss you-no matter what she says-I said the same thing to my H when I was planning my trip to go and be with the OM in a hotel for two weeks...the translation here is..."Let me continue my affair uninterupted...don't cause any trouble, I'll say ANYTHING that you want to hear just so you'll back off"...If you are going to Plan B, then you must go 100%...I believe it was Pepperband that explained it so well when she said that a "modified Plan B" is useless in the same way a "modified marriage" is...it's all or nothing...You've just told her that she has 21 days to go live in fantasyland without repercussion...this makes you a doormat...Women do not respect doormats...do you understand what I am saying?

I think that you have two choices here...

1. You tell her that upon reflection, this situation is wrong, you've changed your mind, and it is unacceptable to you...then, you do what you can to bust up the affair, by exposing it at work...

or

2. You go completely, wholeheartedly into Plan B...NO CONTACT, NO SUPPORT, PERIOD...You Go Dark, VERY VERY DARK...

I would like to see what others think here...I defer to the experts on this one...

Mrs. Wondering

I think you needed to expose before going to Plan B.
How lovely do you think Fantasy-land would be with no income?
And both of them stressing out at each other for losing their jobs?

Exposure still needs to happen.

I would also go forward with Plan B -- but take away the safety net. Tell her that upon reflection, you don't think you can handle the pain of knowing she is with OM every nite. You need to break from her completely until she decides to end the affair.

And what else will she need to do to make you feel safe? Live on her own for a while? Get counseling? Have no contact with OM? Prove herself to you somehow? Start thinking about your boundries...

The Wonderings and Lexxxy have it right. Expose and then off to Plan B land.

You are enabling and even condoning adultery by your wife. YOU are fascilitating it. And worse yet, your daughter now believes that this is acceptable because both of you have agreed to it.

You are the man here...you are the husband. Time to take charge and lead. Your wife is ripe for Plan B. Expose like crazy, let her know that after thinking about this, you cant believe that yo uagreed to this...that it must have been because you love her so much. But she is to break it off with OM and come home to work o nthe marriage. If after exposure and talkingto her, she does not do this...then you send her a Plan B letter and go dark.

You are helping your wife commit adultery. Stop it. Read more on Plan B, because by your post above, I can see that you dont fully understand it. As the Plan B Czar on here, I can tell you that your wife is ripe for Plan B.

Your choice. Your wife NEEDS you to do the right thing, as she is unable to do so. Please do not fail her.

In His arms.

lemonman, woundering, lexxy, mortarman---
You all are right. I should not have aloud her to go to his apartment. Yes, knowing she was with him last night really killed me. I did not sleep a minute it was so painful.
Tonight I will give her two options. 1) Come back home and work on our marriage and family. or 2) While with OM you will have No contact with me what so ever (plan B) 100%. I agree, that i need to make her know that as a result of her choice of the affair with OM, that I'm off limits to her. She can not benefit from any part of me until she proves her self by ending it with him.
I guess i'm stupid. You are right. My WW can not make a descion for herself, and I'm failing her again.

D&C;
One very good outcome of the way this happened is that you have the girls with you. They should in no way be taken from their home and think that this situation is normal.

Be prepared for her to choose #2 but still try to have #1 as an option later.

Right now she thinks there is no limit for you. She thinks she can take a vacation from your marriage, and you will be right there waiting for her. Take away that safety net. Let her FEEL and KNOW that her actions could have the very real consequence of losing you.

Tonight -- just tell her that last night was the most painful of your life, and you cannot continue with the 21 day plan that you agreed to. You've re-thought it, and although there is a slight chance left for your marriage; you must have no contact with her until she ends he affair with OM.

And -- expose. There is nothing like stress/anxiety/financial concerns to bust up a fantasy!!!

Get a good seat for the fireworks -- and stay in the dark.

Your not stupid. You love your wife and you want to save your marriage. It's not like we get married and plan for this disaster. So your not an expert on how to save a failing marriage. Join the crowd. It's ok don't beat yourself up. I failed in my attempts big time. Now my ww is gone and moving her stuff out to sell the house(I can't pay mtg on my own). your ww is being selfish and will use any manipulation tactic against you. She knows you love her and want to save the marriage and will put up with endless crap out of deperation. I did the same. None of this is your fault. no one ever siad you had to be a perfect husband or your wife has the right to destroy you. I agree with everyone have more backbone. My ww wants to legally seperate but have me do all the work for her. I finally stood up to her. she is still going through with the ww type plan but at least I can focus on taking care of me instead of trying to meet the needs of someone who quite frankly doesn't deserve to have needs met.
Hang in there.

dazed- my WW did the same thing, went to OM's house for 5 weeks, i tried to plan A for the first week, after that went dark. She called and begged to come home, false recovery, she left again, now shacking up with OM again, went dark again , proboly permanent. It's scary at first as you worry bout kids, money Etc, but you soon develop a routine and before you know it, it's 3 weeks later.Plan B removes all the drama and all the work you do, without anyhting in return.