I decided to reply to her email; "I'm coming home after work". My reply: (what are your intentions). There has been no comment back.
As fot the PA part. I know you are right, i just really want to believe her. On d-day she denied everything, but has slowly told me more about him and there relationship. Obviously we have not had sex since march. Until then we never went more than a month with out it. WW started buying new panties in July. Skimpy kind. Also, when she found my notes i made about his character flaws during phone call with OM soon to be EXW. She was willing to talk about it and defend him until the sex subject came up. When I pointed out all his sick expectations she did not want to talk about it. When I pointed what his EXW had to endure; porn, toys, kink, pain, oral obsession, selfish sick basturd stuff she ended the conversation. My wife was molested when she was 10 and date raped at 16. She has always had major sexual restrictions. This is one of our problem areas that we would have to resolve. OM's soon tobe EXW told me that WW actually called to ask if the sex stuff was true because that is a major issue with her. I dont know. It don't matter. Only thing that matters is what I do going forward. Can't change the past, only learn from it. Oh check this out another email from WW;
OH MY GOD READ THIS----------
well-
your guilt tripping is working.
if i dont kill myself b 4
5pm-i guess i will come home.
i know all u r concerned about is
making yourself happy-so whether it's what i really
want or not-it's always about u,
i am sorry u have been sad b cuz
of me-and your overwhelming guilt towards me is
killing me. so -if i have to go on living like i have so unhappy just
to make someone else happy (U) well then by all means-
lets just make u happy. please do not respond to me while
I am at work. i am upset enough & my head is killing
me. u can just lock me up at home after 5.
let my fun begin.
god I cant wait.

As far as her email goes--SO? shes just trying to shift blame to you. My WW actually said to my Dd one time
ww--"Can't I be happy?"
DD-- whatever.....

They are only thinking for themselves...

Yeah, she is on drugs (OM). I recalled fantasy island. I knew I was going to be bad guy. So, tonight. Do I let her back knowing she has no intent on reconsile. Or do I say not until you are ready to reconsile. I only told her i was backing out on my part of the 21 day plan. I did not demand she come home. Only suggested she come home to reconsile. Not get into a cage or cell. Frankly, i dont want her home now. If she wants to come home and blast on me and try to make her sick love affair seem like its my fault. I think I should just confirm to her that her actions are not approved by me and I can not set back and condon her affair any longer. This does not mean getting locked into a cage or cell. I think if she wants to bring that attitude home, let her take it to OM's anyway. Do you think i should not allow in tonight...please advise..

personally, I wouldn't, and I didn't. She will try to "push your buttons", bait you into an arguement in order to reaffirm to her that this is why shes with om etc..And then she will go running into the waiting arms of OM. Let him deal with ehr crap.

Dazed~

Once you expose at work, it MAY change things dramatically...


EITHER,


1. She won't want to come home, cause she'll be so mad...


OR


2. The fantasyland bubble will have burst and her attitude could do a 180-(doubtful, but you never know)


It's hard to advise you on Plan B until we know the full effect of Plan A...Gotta follow through on that...



Mrs. Wondering

Thw Wonderings are correct. You must finish Plan A before we know where things will go. Now, if you wife is coming home AND is going to end things with the OM, then you may think about waiting until tomorrow to expose. Then, at 5pm tonight, you sit down with this lady and explain to her that:

1. This is about both of you and both of you getting what you need out of this marriage.

2. She must agree to NC with the OM forever, and write a NC that you will look over and send to OM (you can get a sample one on here and give her the sample so she understands what it must say and what it must not say).

3. The two of you must go to a pro-marriage counselor immediately. The best thing would be if the two of you can start up with Steve Harley. But no matter who it is, they must be a pro-marriage counseloe willign to help lead you two thru the minefield.

4. She must agree to work on this. That means the two of you doing the EN and love buster questionaires. Determien what each others needs are. Try to meet the top 5 all the time. She must do this for you also!!

5. She must leave that job and find a job where she is not near the OM. This is non-negotiable.

You see, if you do not lay these things down i nfront of her, then this "I'll come home for you" crap will last about a week, and she will be right back with the OM (if she even leaves him). You must make her understand that the only way this will work is if she meets those conditions above. And if she cannot or she gets caught in contact with the OM again...any contact...then you will have to proceed on to the next phase.

So, hold your fire, I think, until she is home tonight. Give her these conditions. If she balks at it or refuses, then you have your answer on exposure and Plan B. If she agree, even if it isnt wholheartedly, then you sir have a lot of work to do because you will have to set all of the ground work to make all of this happen. Dont expect her to call the counselor, or write the NC letter on her own. You help her do these things. Do them together.

In His arms.

I would suggest having a meeting (at a nuetral site) first instead of letting her "move" back home tonight at 5.

No sense in having her schlep all of her belongings back to your house and then have her not agree to your conditions.

Tell her that there are a few things to discuss and suggest a place to meet at 5.

I disagree with waiting on exposure. It needs to be done regardless of her response tonight.

Mortarman-
Thank you for the positive thinking.
I agree with all your points. I already have another appointment with Steve Harley tomorrow morning. I'm sure Steve will be able to provide some help planning my next moves. After all he did spend an hour with her on the phone. He should have some good insight from that.
I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst here tonight.

Dazed checking on you....

UPDATE:
It's all bad. She talked to her mom last night for the first time in weeks. Her mom went off on her for OM and her actions. This really pissed of WW.
She blew up went off on my and daughter. Yelling and screaming divorce and all kinds of really hurtful things towards me and DD. She was out of control. I never lost control and actually had to break up WW and DD from fighting. WW was still mad this morning and ranting about our divorce and her signing over her right to our kids to me and all kinds of filth.
I told her over and over that I love her and I care about her and that I'm fighting for our love and marriage.
Steve tells me to continue to hold in the plan A stage. Be the broken record of letting her know that there is a way for us to be happy together. No matter what she says or threatens to do. Continue to tell her that we can be happy together and lets look into what it will take to be happy. If you are not feeling cared for then my job is not done. Let's look into what it will take to be happy. What part of us being happy don't you want?
Steve suggest that hold this posistion right up till she leaves or files. He suggest that I not give in and make it easy for her. Do not be on her side of ideas that separate us. My reply to any of her ideas of ending the marriage or separation should be: I don't believe that is the best way for us to be happy together. We love each other right. What part of us being happy don't you want? I know I can change to be better at caring for you. I'm not going to allow myself to be the same person i was.
"BE A BROKEN RECORD" It's okay to recycle the same message. (Us being happy together).
Steve does not recommend exposure to her HR. He agrees that i will most likely be blown up in the process. He agrees that the best thing is to end her affair. But for stay away from her HR office. Also, suggested i hold on my own filing and plan B. His suggested I focus on keeping both of us in the house. If she is so none descisive that she will most likely not do anything that i will not agree to. Just like the 21 day plan, she asked for my approval before doing it. Steve, thinks she will only try to get me to go along with ideas, probably not act with out my consent. So don't give it to her. Hold your pattern of offering a way to lead us both to happiness.
Okay-while on the phone with Steve WW calls. She apologized for her behavior and that she wants me to know that she loves us. She let her anger take over and she is sorry. Hopes daughter will still love her and want to talk to her.

Dazed,

Not that Steve Harley needs my endorsement, he is the expert, but given your W's response to you, your DD, and family, she is in deep conflict now and this is where you want her. While you may be very uncomfortable, she is REALLY uncomfortable and people don't stay in that position too long.

SH's logic seems excellent, but do get your plan B letter ready just in case. Remember it is a love letter expressing hope, a plan for getting back together, and the potential for a happy marriage.

Hang in there and listen to SH's advice.

God Bless,

JL

MAn sorry to hear this. Maybe she was taking it out on you and DD for exposing to her mom.
My WW and DD got into it also, now WW is trying to text message her and leave voicemails, but DD deleates them. WW will have to wait for DD to go to her, she can't force a relationship. Unfortunately Dd is as stubborn as WW. LOL
HAng in there man and be there for tour DD.

JL-
thanks for your help. I'm sure Steve's logic may have came as a bit of a surprise. I think the main reason for trying to get everything i can out of plan A is so she has a reason to believe in me. Yes, she is having the affair and that is the major affence here and must end. However, the wife is so unhappy with our past marriage, there is just not much there to attract her to come back to me. I neglected my wife very badly. She is a very needy ensecure person. She can not even sleep in a house by herself. Yes, i know this and was so stupid to think she was okay with me being gone. So you see what i did to my wife was the worst case senario. I left a lonely ensecure person that craves conversation, and attention. To her i basically abbandoned her. Because of this she thought I did not love her, want to know her, find her attractive, be her friend and have any interest in her. She is very hurt by this. She is so scared that I will not make good on my promise and just go off and find another reason to not be with her. My plan A effort has only be going on for less than a month. It has been affective to a point. Just not got her ready to buy into me yet. That's why plan B will not have the greatest affect in the world on her. She already thinks she was a single married person, and is so scared to trust me. So you see our marriage had really dried up prior to this affair. We were not functioning as husband and wife should have for so long. With out time to sell her that i will and have become the person she fell in love with and had always wanted, what will she miss about me in plan B. I think that is why SH is so reluctant to suggest plan B.
JL I welcome all your help. Thanks for the harsh reality blast the other day. I needed it after agreeing to the 21 day plan of sin.

Mrs. W,-JL,-Mortarman, and other:
I need some help understanding the affects of exposure of the A on WW. Obviously WW thinks the world is now against her. She feels she has lost everything she once had because everyone knows about her affair. Do you think she will just see this as my fault and or eventually realize that her actions caused this not just my mouth?
What do you all think about Steve's advice to hold back and not file and impliment plan B. I think WW only thinks she is at rock bottom. Truth is the fear of really losing me and our DD, home and everything she has not thought that much about yet. I now understand that Plan B is a love letter that provides a plan and rules that she must meet to come back home. This offers a reality check by a taste of actual divorce and a way back to home all at the same time. I agree she has been on the fence. Actually going back and forth between me and him. After the last round of exposure she was way off the fence last night. The only others that i planned on informing was her HR and his parents. According to SH i should back off on that idea.

UPDATE:
attached is our email chat from today.
BS(ME) wrote:
WW- just want you to know that I’m still here for you.
I will be home for lunch today if you anything.
Not asking for nothing, just letting you know I’m still on your side.

WW wrote:
on my side?
thats nice to know-wish i could
believe u. i feel like i have no one
any more. i am the enemy. i know this.
i have lost everything.

BS(ME)wrote:
u have not lost me or my love for u.
yes, i’m still on your side.
i do believe there is still a way that leads to happiness.

WW wrote:
well, i dont think
ill ever find it.
i am too lost & too far gone-
too many hurtful words have
been spoken-too much has happened.
i lost my daughter-the most important
thing in the world-now i am nothing.

BS(ME) wrote:
well, I think we just can't see it yet.
you maybe lost, but never to far gone to be found. The only limits are the ones we place on our selves.
u have not lost your daughter or me for that matter.
….she wants so very much for you to be her momming. She had plans last night of you and her spending time after work. She sat in the chair last night waiting for you to come home and take her somewhere to be together. She would not eat because she was waiting for you to eat with. She would not go outside and play because she was waiting for you to play with. She and we are not lost beyond finding.
Its not too late….lets look into what it will take for you, me and our daughter to find happiness and make a plan.

Dazed,

Steady as she goes. You are doing fine. Of course she feels lost, she is only looking at herself. Once the A is over and she starts looking around she will see you still there, her daughter still there, her family still there. She is feeling sorry for herself because you are making it hard to her to go play with her toys, and OM is a toy.

I had not realized you had only done plan A for a month. Please heed SH's advice and continue. But, also set your boundaries and maintain them. This will be hard until you realize that most of what you hear is self-serving "fog" talk and it will vanish.

You goal is to change what you can, be consistent with it, and focus on your goal. Getting your marriage to be something YOU BOTH enjoy. Take good care of your daughter. You may not realize this yet, but THAT one thing will affect your W more than you can realize. Be the DAD YOU have always wanted to be. If you do that, it will be easy for you to continue once the A is over and she comes back.

So hang in there, you are doing fine. She is in conflict and that is a great place for her to be right now.

God Bless,

JL

I could be wrong (surprising, I know...LOL) but when my wife got angry about me telling everyone, I simply asked her what I was supposed to have done...they ALL would have learned about it very quickly anyway, since she was moving in with him. I asked her what she was mad with me about...I hadn't done anything but let everyone know WHAT SHE WAS DOING.

I was calm, and non-accusatory, but firm. Why are you mad at ME...I wasn't the one who made any of these choices, you were. And all I did was talk with YOUR family, and YOUR friends...the ones you would have had to told about this anyway. Why are you mad at ME if THEY are the ones who are telling you that you're making a mistake? It's not my fault that they agree with me...they agree with me because I'm doing the RIGHT thing here, and they love you and don't want to see you do something to hurt yourself and everyone you love.

Perhaps you might be able to use a similar tactic when talking with your wife. But again...ALWAYS stay calm, never raise your voice, and never ACCUSE her...simply talk with her about it. MOST IMPORTANT: THE LOUDER SHE GETS, THE QUIETER YOU GET.....say that yourself again...it works everytime!

Owl-Thanks for the advice. last night after the dust setteled i ask her just that. "If you were in my shoes, would have done anything differently"? "Your friends and family only care about you that is why they want to talk to you about this". "If they did not care then they would just blow it off and not try and help. One day when your not so angry with me I think you will understand. Good night, I love you". And I walked away.
you are right it is so hard to not unload. I have slipped a little here and there but for the most part have kept my cool. She even made the comment to me the other day that she was surprised that I had not flipped out and done something to get put in jail over. I told her, "believe me many men would already be in an orange jump suit if put in my shoes honey". "That should show you how much I love you and care for you."
Well-it's 4:15 and I'm nervous about tonights events. I'm not wanting another round of last night that is for sure. She made the comment this morning before appolgizing that she wanted to talk about divorce stuff tonight. So, I'm preparing the broken record of (we need to do what makes us being happy together).

dazed-- i did the same thing to my WW, I asked her if the shoe was reversed, would you do anything different? Her response, NO. But she did tell me that she always said if I ever cheated shewould be through with me!! I posed the question , now what would you say? Blank response.... and here I am trying to save our marriage I said.
don't let her fog you.

Update:
WW is still very angry with me. She keeps repeating that I had a chance until I told everyone about her and OM. She claims she will never forgive me for running my mouth. All she can talk about is getting a divorce. She is so hostile that I can't even talk to her with out her spewing hate and filth at me.
She does not want to be home with me at all. All she can think about is OM. She is only home now so she wont easily lose the kids to me in the divorce.
She is still with OM at lunch and atleast an hour after work. She calls him when I'm out of the house. After walking in on her talking to him last night, she got mad and called the cell phone place back asking about getting another phone.
She went nuts on me again this morning telling me that she will end up hating me before this is all over. Saying I should just move on and find another women. People get divorced all the time. Well I really pissed her off by telling her if she thought DD12 would really accept any OM in her life much less this loser that she already thinks has taken her mommy away from us your crazy. I told WW that she is 12 years old and also can't think of a life with out mom and dad and her together. Do you really think that she will ever give OM a chance much less live with you and him.. The way I see it you need to think of your actions do not mean you get everything you want. Yes, your choice is OM or your family. You need to think of it just like that. DD know's dad wants us to be happy together and does not want you to leave so logically who is she going to be angry with.
Of course WW flipped out and said I was just trying to trap her and ruin her life and make it so she will never have anything she wants and on and on and on and on and on.
So, i left the room and took the kids to school. I had to return home and put up food from breakfast i prepaired for the kids. When I did, WW went off on me cursing me and going nuts telling me to just stop and let her go.
So, at this point I'm really tired. At this point I don't see a better plan other than filing for a divorce protecting my kids.

update dazed??