HI Dazed,

Wow... what a day of ups and downs you had... Great that the three of you felt "normal" together... bad what you found out about DD swim team... I can remember sitting straight up in bed when a piece of the puzzle dropped into place... rarely a nice feeling...

Well... that's in the past anyway... these things will crop up and hurt you as the puzzle is filled in .. but you can't focus on them...DO NOT REACT...remember? At least don't let her see you react or let it knock you off your course.


See.... the ying and yang... you guys had a great couple of days there... then..... the "bad" side pulled back. And evened the score... a tug of war....always happens this way...
BUT.... you pull two feet and lose one when it pulls back... and you win in the long run... that's Plan "A" (without LB's)

It's a battle I know all to well...very frustrating.... but somehow necessary. Expect the best.... prepare for the worst that's all we can do.

I agree... this is a crucial time for you... I got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I read your thoughts about OM sending her home until his D is final... and OM giving her the money for a lawyer to D you..

I think you may be right about these things... But remember.... as much as you screwed up before... he may be screwing up now sending her home. That's giving you a chance to do a good Plan "A" and you are doing a REALLY REALLY GOOD ONE...

I mean keeping that information about DD's swim team to yourself must have been REALLY hard.... I'm proud of you buddy... you're getting tough!! You're fighting this thing SMART..!!

The bad side... the dark side....satan.... whatever you want to call it threw you a curveball on the outside corner with that "puzzle piece" ... you didn't chase it... BALL ONE.... Good Job!!

As long as you don't react (Chase the junk pitches..) He can NEVER strike you out... Right?

OK... the letter.... although it was well said... I wouldn't have given it to her... not a big mistake but you should wait for the "right moment" to discuss your Marriage with her... and the "right moment" is when SHE brings it up.. not you.

You are just being someone she can be comfortable with at this point.... building Love deposits in her Love Bank....
Unfortunately most of the letter probably went "unheard"..... for now at least....WS's can't see that kind of stuff.... the fog is too dense....

If you gave it to her when SHE wanted to talk or the "timing" (the brief lifting of the fog that you've seen when she takes your arm and puts it around her for example) then.... it may get through... but.... the other side will try and pull it back out of her heart..... and make it sound like begging or false promises....but it is there DEEP in her heart. I believe it's what she REALLY wants but thinks she can't REALLY have.

All you can do while she's home is be a "safe" person...a friend..... that's what the OM started as.... want WHATEVER will make HER happy...

We know the truth about this affair.... it's not real.....she will learn someday too..... but..... she has to learn it all by herself..... too bad for her....

Oh... one thing she said was hopeful...
WS SAID: " I guess I'm ruining everyone's life now and I wish I was no where now."

Hmm... everyone's life? That proves that OM is pushing her... maybe WS has told her she's confused... and OM is saying "HEY... I'm keeping up MY end...."!!!

Good sign...he's not in as good of a place as you may think...... I'm sure your Plan "A" is having an effect....
This is crunch time for you now buddy....NO MORE LB's....NO MORE REACTING (responding to her comments or letters or actions)

I think there is a 50-50 chance she will leave again when OM's divorce is final....at this point that is...you may have less than a week to finish your Plan "A"..... so don't make any BIG moves without posting first....
50-50 is still MUCH better than you had a month ago believe me..... you put a dent in this fog festival LOL!!!

But.. affairs END....and I think this one even if she leaves again will fizzle relatively quickly....

So.... prepare in your mind and heart for the worst... she leaving in a week... BUT think of this.... what is SHE thinking?

Is she thinking that she's move in with OM and eventually DD will join them? NOT LIKELY....(now that she sees DD's reaction since the A has been exposed....) She may have thought that when she left before but not now....there isn't enough fog in the WORLD to get her to believe that now!!

So she KNOWS... if she leaves she's be leaving DD behind... so I think what she will do is try and bait you into a fight of some sort to "excuse" her leaving this time.... DON'T FALL FOR IT.....

Maybe try and get you to throw her out (after leaving clues that she is still seeing OM like tonight)....

See... if you don't fall for the curve balls.... she has to leave as a BAD person... not a VICTIM of a bad Marriage...especially since the affair is in the open.....

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK... I'M PRAYING FOR YOU GUYS..... FRANK

Just a suggestion on how to approach her guilt and concerns for reconciliation with family.

I know that if I had your experience my immediate family (parents, brothers and sisters) would chip in for a hit man to take out wife. They would do this not because they hate WW but because they love ME.

Is there someone in your family your W is/was close with OR is especially afraid to meet again? If so then talk to that person. Explain what you are doing and WW concern. Ask that person to contact WW – preferably in person and tell her that the family will accept her back. That the family is willing to reconcile with her since the two of you as a couple are one. That their resentment is more about the present situation rather than the WW.

I recon you will need to convince the family member. Tell him that doing this is not a way to show love for WW but to show love for you.

Bigger- No one on my side has said anything to her face. Mother and brother have said stuff to others that has made it back to her. WW's family members are the ones that have thrown it right in her face. I have told them all that I had a part in our marriage going bad and i still want to work out our problems and i love her very much. At first I told them a lot of detail about her actions and what I knew about OM. At first I did not know that SIL actually contributed to the affair and already new him. I think they will get over it especially if I talk to them. IMO WW thinks her innocent little princess image is totaly shot to ****** now and I'm the one that let the cat out of the bad so I'm the bad guy.
Also me tipping off OM's parents about there seven month trist and how badly her and OM has destroyed our family and daughter really got both of them. WW still thinks that holidays at OM's parent would be okay. That has got to be really screwed up. Who would welcome a woman into there house and family knowing about there affair and the damage it has caused.
UPDATE:
Not much news to report at this time.
This morning we talked briefly. She woke me up. I set up and asked her to set with me. She did. I brushed her hair back and gave her a hug. She said I can't do this any more. She then laid her head on my shoulder as I held her. I told her that I loved her and we set our foreheads together. All I said to her comment was It will be okay WW.
Last night after sending in my post here, i wrote WW an email so she would see it first thing when at work today.
I guess i will attach it.(letter) below.
She told me today she cried after reading it.

WW-
Hi, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As I write this letter your down stairs on the couch sleeping.
Like sleeping beauty. Sleeping beauty that I wish I could kiss and sweep up in my arms and spend the rest of time loving each other.

For real girl---
You sleeping on an old couch and hurting your back, shoulders, being cold and alone makes me feel sad. There is no need to punish your self by sleeping on a couch. You must miss sleeping in our bed room and I'm sure you want to. There was many times I thought about sweeping you up in my arms and carry you up the stairs to lay you down to rest on your bed.
Maybe I should have. You can let me know: Y or N

Running my fingers through your hair is just like heaven. As I said your hair is as soft as clouds, your face is a beautiful as an Angels. Your eye's are as brilliant as the pretty blue sky. To touch you is like the feel of a delicate rose pedal. To be near you is to enjoying the smell and beauty of a rose. This is why I always send you roses WW.

Really, it's okay to let yourself feel good and comfortable in your home. Yes, I said it. Your home. This is your place to retreat and relax. You are safe here, you are loved here and please feel comfortable here. Tomorrow night you can rest your head and mind in our bed if you would like, your option.

I think I will go be by your side tonight and sleep on the other couch or floor. Just as long as your not alone.

Good night and good morning all at the same time.
Love you
Me

I don't see the point here...she is going to try to file for divorce.

You have shown her you'd take her back anytime. Your letter? Did it make her leave the fog? Part about "only divorce if you never want your spouse back?"...that goes in one ear of the foggy and out the other.

You have done a stellar plan A. You really have.

But so many of us, including my bud Orchid...feel a dark b is on the horizon now.

You have done well. But know that nothing you are doing right now is making her want to change the course she is taking...she is eating cake and more cake and getting love letters from you...while it's a good plan A, she does not see any point to change...

Please rethink what it is you are doing now.

I think you know my favorite quote from Einstein.

She needs to find some motivation (has none now) to want to find her way home. That would be seeing if this total idiot of a man (om)is even capable of meeting en's and how the absence of her daughter will work....and it won't.

She has not had chance to fall down yet. You won't let her fall...you keep HELPING her up.

She needs to hit rock bottom ok?

Loving toughness is needed now.

WW just called and said she got in to trouble today for violation of company email policy. She said I can no longer email her, and she is going to resign if they don't fire her first.
I called her just before lunch to talk to her about daughter and she said the the IT guy was working on her computer and she had to go. So, i don't think she is feeding me a story just to get me to stop emailing her. She told me that it was not my fault it was hers. So I'm setting here guessing whats next or if this turn of events will help me or hurt me.
I bet that OM was sending her stuff like crazy. Remember how many text messages they were sending each other before i killed the cell phone. 400 text messages per month with 300 phone calls per month. Me severing the cell phone really caused major pain for WW. I could see her going through withdrawls.. No joke. She used to sleep with her phone and hold it all day. I caught her holding the tv remote and home cordless like her cell for the first couple of weeks after i smashed it. I dygress.
I hope he is the cause of this. He's only been gone from working there for 10 days, maybe is was sending stuff from his new job that got her caught up. She really seemed down last week similar to when I broke the cell phone. I bet withdrawls of him not being with her all day had something to do with that.
Or maybe there IT department is just now cleaning up his old computer and found stuff. Let's hope it's his fault.
If she becomes un-employeed and he is sited as the reason that would have to help our cause would it not. If I'm sited as the reason that would have to really hurt I would think.
The other downer here is that we did talk via email and she would always read and respond to everything I wrote. Email has provided a way for me to reach her at any time even if she was mad at me.
This might play into OM getting that 11500 dollar check from his EXW Monday morning... To bad that god could not intervine there and let that poor woman keep all her money and that loser not get nothing.
How good would this look to WW;
1) OM just proved his EXW correct about never holding a job for more than 6 to 12 months. Now just started a new one.
2) WW possibly unemployeed with only a high school education, and if she leaves this job on bad terms this would make 3 out her last 5 ending on bad terms. Also only holding this job for 1 year.

This will be anothe twist in a already twisted story. eh

Okay Peach--
I understand and i do not disagree that this day may come sooner or later.
When I do the plan A right does that not provide the positive motivation by stuffing her full of cake? I feel that I have to see this through.
I know plan B is motivation by starvation. All negitive no nothing not even crumbs.
How does one know when the time is right to turn to starvation. I know I will look like a heartless _sshole in her eyes and all our fate is in OM's hands to fail her.
The wild card is our daughter. WW would have to leave her and she knows it. She knows DD will not have anything to do with her OM, EVER. DD has told her she will go where daddy goes and she hates that guy so bad that she wants to hurt him. Sad and I know DD is damaged and needs IC over this but, my point is WW knows it OM or ME and DD.
I have done some really good stuff but LBed to many times in my book. Me as her light house has been very bright some times blinding yet often moving and flashing.
As of right now I would let her back in with open arms. Until I think otherwise, why would I ask her to pick and choose. The last time I did this she left and violently bounced and really hurt me and daughter. This is where I really LBed the crap out of her. This has shown in consistancy in my behavior. One day I love her and will do anything, the next I telling her to choose now or leave. I just don't see the logic turning to the Plan B until the Plan A has went up to the 9th ining.
Maybe I'm wrong. I think it was Mortarman that said he went through 5 months of absolute ****** before turning to Plan B and with in weeks she was back in his arms. Maybe it was not Mortarman but the point is he went 5 months in plan A. To me that is pitching up to the ninth and bringing in your closer to save the game.
Please let me know if I'm way off here...

Your WW is responsible for her own pending unemployment...YOU and HER still don't get it.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Who is responsible and who gets the blame are often two different people. "Some people just don't get it".
My though is I would get blamed for it.
As it turned out the owner of WW's company has been entertaining himself for the last 6 months watching her email. He called her into his office today and told her he knew everything that has happened and she should go home to her daughter and husband. She says she was in shock. He told her several email names of people that she has been talking with. She says she told him she is very uncomfortable with him now and this is weird. She says she went right to her super and gave her two week notice. Owner guy ask to speak with her in private tomorrow morning. She don't want to. Knowing that he knows everything she has emailed for the last 6 months, WW must really really shaking scared. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Oh-by the way she did not blame me for anything. Not mad at me at all. I'm sure WW company owner has got some real good stuff from me to read. I bet he has enough dirt on her that one could not believe.

I think this is a very splendid turn of events for you if you still desire your wayward cheating wife back. She is being smacked upside the head with consequences of her actions....sometimes this is the impetus that cheaters need to "de-fog". It may not be the knock down punch you needed, but it was a good turn of events for you nonetheless.

Congrats, I guess. You are probably one step closer to your WW hitting "bottom". Usually when that happens, everything else goes to $hit...inluding illicit affairs.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I hope that she goes through with her plan to resign. She told me the owner asked her to not quit her job. He says he really likes her and she has done a good job there. Yah right. This coming from the same guy that she says hits on her and always has the fish hook in the water to see if she will bite. Well if he has been seeing her email and knows she is into cheating, then he has probably been testing her IMO.
She claims that when the HR email came across the computers that he popped his head out of his office and gave her a dirty look. Then he went to there HR and asked them to give her another day to think about leaving. She said that her manager works at the other end of the building and knows nothing about what was going on and was shocked when she gave him her notice.

She is not stupid. I think she has to know if she quits then her options get limited fast. I have a feeling she is not going to quit. If they all want her to stay she may rethink the quiting. She claims that HR has already sent out her leaving notice to the company. The owners office is 20 feet from her desk at the front door. Seeing him and hearing him all day must make her feel bad knowing he knows more about what she is doing than any other person on earth.

If guilt and shame has bothered her knowing how little I know about her and him. Then I can't imagine how she could set at that desk all day 20 feet from a man that owns the place that knows every dirty little word that she has said to me, to OM, to her friends, and vice versa. Like I said earlier, he must have some real filth on her.

She says that she knows it his buisness and that it is his right to fire her for this. However, she feels like he is a pervert or wrong reading all her stuff for six months. Then offering her advice based off of what he has read from her email. This does all sound very weird to me. I would have thought he would have just fired her. Not offer to be a friend and suggest she go home to her daughter and work on her marriage. I guess I applode the guy if he really said that, but I question his motive here. I think we would all be better off if she was unemployeed.

Last night I mainly just listened to what she had to say about work. Just to be a friend to listen to her and be sympathetic. I gave her a CD I bought for her over lunch time. Yah, not a great time for a gift but I had already told her about it before she got caught at work. She slept on the couch again in her cloths.

This morning when i woke her she was pissy about me touching her to wake her up and was with drawn.
I told her this morning that she can stay home as long as she needs to find another job. I make enough we will be okay and we can together work out the bills so she will see.
She only said that is good to know.
I noticed again as she came out of the bath room she had tears in her eyes. I asked if she was okay just to be nice. She says; "You know my life, no i'm not okay".
On the way out the door for school, daughter gave her a very nice hug and was very nice telling mommy she loved her and wanted to play her music tonight.
To be nice. I made a trip to the store bought her a pop and snack and magazine to read. Knowing she is always late, never eats breakfast and needs a pop in the morning this would be a good jesture. She was walking out of the house just as i pulled up so the surprise was foiled. I just gave her the pop and snack because she was holding the CD i just gave her. However, I was happy to see that she was holding the CD i just gave her, I could not slip in the new Marie Clair mag. Oh well, maybe that would have been over the top anyway. She does like reading mags, just stuff like Cosmo, and crap like People. Her taking the CD was a good thing. It has some really good songs on it that I have dedicated to her or us in the past. Plus I made the CD and case insert with some loving stuff on it.

Okay-I'm back again. I'm feeling frustrated right now. I can't concentrate on anything at work. Just thinking about what I should do next with this mess of a marriage.
It bothers me that so manys times what looks like an oppourtunity that can really us turns into a dud. I wished she would get fired right after I found that she was workig with that loser OM. I new I would have no chance as long as she was seeing him and he worked there. I can see that i have made small steps forward with her since he quit working there. She can no longer see him and flirt with him during work ours. Also, no break time together and lunch time is harder. This has all worked for me.
However, I new that he has very easy access to her because of email and a phone.

Okay-most of you say she needs to hit rock bottom. Yes, she is close and I guess I'm the only thing stopping her. Here is my deal with this.
1) Thinking of her at rock bottom hurts.
2) How do I let her get there with out being the bad guy that she will resent. This is the tricky part for me. Will she see that I'm not the one doing this to her and want to come back to me.
This is also in the back of my mind. She struggled with me in our 13 year marriage for a very long time. Our marriage has not been smooth by no stretch of the imagination. There are skeletons in the closet that i have not told you all about as well. My point is, she spent a very long time being unhappy in our marriage before she allowed her self to fall in love with another. This really makes me scared to turn her over to OM to see how long they last. Knowing she was unhappy with me for so long before giving up on me.
Other than my daughter not going with her, and hoping OM is the loser I think he is, why would she not give him the same patients she gave me.
My former sister in law did just what WW is doing. She left her husband for OM. She had a year and half affair with OM before getting caught. She lied about all of it and they were friends and so on. All her friends and family did not support her living the family for OM. Her own parents will not be in the same building with OM. My former SIL has none of her old friends and no family agrees with her. Even OM's parents treat her poorly and told OM to not include her in family functions. See he left his wife and kids for this women too. They also work together and still do. He is a complete loser. All his pay goes to child support and alomony. Former SIL does all the house work, mows the lawn, pays the bills and even complains that OM is not good in bed. This is words she told me. He is a great friend that her husband never was. They have fun together and he makes her happy in that way she never was before. However, she also believes she gave up so much for him that she feels she has to make it work. She lost her husband, family, friends, and her son all for this man. She says she discovers more and more things all the time that she does not like about him but what can she do now. She still believes they were ment for each other it's just they meet at the wrong time in there lives for everything to work out perfect. I think this is crap or fog as you call it.
She knows she is trapt and has to much pride to addmit it. No they are not married. They are shacked up together with both his kids and hers coming and going all the time. They have now been living together for a year. She also told me she has studied how long relationships born from affairs ususally last. She says two years. She says she has seen most people she knows doing the affair relationship thing and none of them work out. She is worried about hers but thinks that there special. Because she worked with him for 10 years and they were friends for 5 and lovers for 2 before there shack up arrangement.
This is a woman that my WW turns to for help. So you see why I say so many things seem to work against me.
Why do so many people cheat on there spouses. Why do so many women think they can just trade in there husband on a new man that makes them laugh?
If I had a dollar for every time my wife said, "People get divorced all the time" I would be a rich man.
Me I'm the product of a broken marriage. I know the pain of being 10 years old and seeing your parents fight about everything in front of you. My father was a horrible husband and father to me. My mother equal. I lived three years with my grand parents and two of those years my mother never spoke to me.
This is why I never even once looked at another woman as someone I would ever be with. To me my wife is my one true love and I have never thought of being with another woman. Besides love, I never forgot how divorce destroyed my life as a child. It robbed me of a childhood. Forced me to grow up and loose my innocents. I have never forgot what it did to me. I never wanted to do this to my child.
Now my WW never had a dad. Her mother had 10 husbands. Her sister is about to fail at her 3rd marriage and has had sex with several dozen men. WW's friends incourage her affair.
For years and years WW and me would lay in bed on sundays and talk about how special our marriage was. How horrible everyone else was for cheating and having sex with out marriage and love. She used to refer to her sister as the slut. She used to tell me she was embarrassed to go to school as a little girl and not have the same last name as her mom, brother, and sisters.
Now she has fell from what she believed and joined the club of what she never want to be.
Sorry about just rambling with out a point.

Some times I catch myself thinking as if this never happened. I catch myself reaching for the phone to call wife and she where she wants to go to lunch today. Forgetting that she will not go because that is her time with him. She has not accepted my offer in six months. I catch myself thinking about where we can go for the week end for fun. Forgetting she was not went out of town with me nine months other than Niece's custody trial in April. I pinch myself to know I'm awake and then pray.

What does people think my odds are getting her back ever?

dazed

Experts:
I need your help....
I'm very worried about this week end.
OM's Divorce is final Monday Morning. He will most likely collect $11500 from his BW.
WW has offically resigned from her job and she is not considering staying. She claims to have put in resumes over her lunch hour today. I figure the first place would be where ever OM is now working. I can tell the last two weeks of work with out him has made for some serious withdrawls.

I'm afraid of what the week end has in store for me...
ANY LAST MINUTE ADVICE...
What can i do if anything to keep her from seeing OM?
Dazed.

plan b..and rock bottom for ww.

Attached is my plan B letter. I know it's longer than most and you all may rip it apart. It's long because of a couple reasons.
1) My plan A is not finished. D-Day was 9-6-05 and affair started February 2005.
2) I have done many LB's during attempt to plan A.
3) It may be the last love letter I ever write her.


WS,

In our fifteen plus years together, I never imagined us reaching the point where we are today. It brings overwhelming sadness and sorrow that I write you this letter. Just as you said a couple days ago; I also can't not believe what has happened between us either. I do believe you when you tell me that you still love me, and will always care for me. Yes, I believe you, that you never planned to be with any one other than me, and this relationship with Jeremy was an accident.
Our marriage has been filled with many good times and some bad. Sharing half our life together has connected us in many ways that will last forever. I will always remember and cherish the wonderful things you have given me. Together we have been so blessed with a beautiful daughter that loves us both so very much. Over the years you have been a wonderful wife, mother, and person. Recalling all the truly great things you have done for (D12) it simply overwhelms me. I truly believe inside us there will always live (WS-n-BS). I love you more than anything else in this world. There is nothing I want more than our family to remain together, and me and you as best friends and husband and wife.
Again, I apologize for my part in making your affair with (OM) possible. I believe if I would have been there for you as your friend, and husband, like I was suppose to be, then no man would have been able to turn your head. In the last couple of months, you have helped me recognize and understand how I have hurt you and failed in our marriage.
I regret what I have done wrong in our marriage and that we find ourselves in a place that is so full of pain for both of us. When I look back it makes me sick to my stomach to see how I lived in denial of your affair and reacted with anger and disrespect towards you. I did not realize how my selfishness, unhappiness, and resentment were only driving you closer to (OM).
In the last few years I selfishly pursued a racing career without living up to my responsibility to meet your needs as my wife. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. You have helped me understand how lonely you were and felt so left out of life. You, the most important person and part of my life I neglected so badly that you did not feel I loved you or cared about you. I want to sincerely apologize for all the pain I caused by not making you feel appreciated, special, and my first priority.
I am willing to avoid the mistakes I have made in the past and create a NEW life for us that will make us happy and meet all of your needs. I have been and will continue to work on making changes in the things about myself that have been the cause of our unhappiness for you and me in our marriage. I have demonstrated to myself that it’s possible to make changes and that I can make them permanent. I still have much work to do but, with help from you and others I’m learning how NOT to make the same mistakes again.
Our marriage is at a place that is very confusing and painful. Your relationship with Jeremy is keeping us from restoring our marriage and is continuing to pull it apart. The way you have bounced back and fourth from me to him, and in and out of our lives this year is beyond difficult. I can not scramble for the crumbs of attention and love that you offer me. Months of lies to sneak around with Jeremy, which are still continuing, and your behavior in our home undermines my love for you. You continue to tell me that you love me and care about me; you will hug me and hold me tightly and then you call or run off to him. You can not have both of us and I can not and will not share you any longer.
I have told you I will always be there for you, and that I will forgive you. But your affair continues to inflict great pain on me and our family. I have been waiting for you to decide whether or not you will recommit to our marriage. Your excuses for not ending your affair and not trying to work out our problems are tearing our family apart. I have been trying to show you how much I love you and want to work out our problems. But this pain challenges my ability to forgive you, and is chipping away at my love for you. I know you are also hurting and I would give anything to help ease your pain. I truly believe in forgiveness, healing, and redemption for both of us.
In order to preserve the love, thoughts and dreams I still have for you, I can not see or talk to you any longer.


*If you end your affair with (OM) and choose to discuss building a new life with me, I will welcome you with an open heart and mind back in to my life. Until that time, it will not be possible for me to have any contact with you. No personal visits with you, telephone conversations, mail, or even see you. This space will make it possible for me to wait until you end all contact with (OM) forever, and are ready to work out a plan to recover our relationship, marriage and family that is mutually agreeable.
Please respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know how hard this is for me and about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Jeremy. I simply can not be with you any longer knowing you are with him too.
If you need to communicate with me, please find someone in your family to pass your messages along. I will continue to assume care for (D12) 24x7. You can, of course spend your free time with her as much as you wish, as long as Jeremy is not involved. I also ask that you respect the planning that is necessary for a single father and get my approval at least in advance, not directly and not through (D12), but through your family contact of choice. In this way I can plan for shopping, meals, homework, activities, etc. When I require a babysitter or when she is being cared for by another adult, I will inform you so you know who is caring for our daughter. When you call the house or my cell phone to visit with (D12), I will not speak to you unless an emergency.
Any of your cloths and personal belongings that you still need from the house, have your family person of choice contact me, and I will retrieve them from the house and leave the items in the garage for you to pick up. I will no longer be able to support or provide for you as a friend, or husband. You will need to find your own place to live immediately. I will continue to pay for all of mine and (D12’s) financial obligations in order to keep the house running. I will not change any of our bank accounts. You are also expected to support yourself with out any of my help.
(WS), my wish is for us to create a new relationship, to build a new life where each thing we do, every day of our lives, makes us both happy as it once did when we first fell in love. My willingness to do this in the worst of times is part of the promise I made to you years ago. And I do still believe in you. But right now, letting you go and distancing myself from your actions is the only way I can protect my heart. I don’t do this in anger but out of love us. I need to restore some normalcy to my life and (D12’s) so that we can remain healthy, find some peace, and I can continue to repair myself.
A future with me can be different from our past. Why? Because we both want change. Now is our chance (WS). We have an opportunity to write out our futures together. One full of all the life and happiness we always wanted. Either way we go it's going to change, so why not make a future where all three in our family are happy and we change it together?
For the first time in my life I have stripped away all the years of baggage between us. Something I should have done years ago. I have accepted all my faults and failures with us.
It did take the world to stop turning for me to cut through all the layers of crap that had paralyzed my love for you. No matter what, when, where, why, and how. The point is I'm here now. Just a man with an open heart and mind.
I'm eager to rediscover the person I should have been before I became lost in my own devices. I will be a man that is thoughtful, sensitive, caring, sharing, respectful, friendly, fun and happy. A man that’s life that is inviting to be around that is not pressed for time and selfish expectations of others. I want to be the rock of support and motivation for our daughter as she grows and moves through life.
For the first time in so many years I come to you with nothing between us but the promise to love you and become the man of our dreams. Hopefully I will be that man with you.

I miss my best friend. I miss my life partner, my wife, the mother of my daughter, my first and only true love. There is no one with whom I would rather spend my life with.

Remember me; I’m the one who loves you.

(BS)

do me a favor...the letter is good...but do one thing...and with a big red pen like your elementary teachers used to do...

CROSS OUT ALL THE PARTS WHERE YOU...THE BS...CLAIM RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR WW BECOMING A WW.

we want your w to hit rock bottom ok? she is close...she resigned (as far as you truly know) from her job. she may be fired in reality as I would suspect. and I would call the hr of om employer and expose if you think your ww has put in her application for eomplyment there.

she is also considering filing for divorce.

all that has happened here is more of the same stuff...you hand her plates full of cake and give her the spoon to eat it with.

I want your family to heal....but being the one to take the fall for her cheating is NOT the way to do it. she has to WANT to come home...and you have to make yourself look attractive again...

and to a ww or ws or wh or whatever...they want to see the door closing...they want to have to chase you again...and they have to have some motivation to return. motivation would be letting her have him...letting them love bust like mad..letting her leave her child...and losing her job...well we can see the whole recipe for disaster...living on love and 11k.

that's it. and `11k will not go far in this world.

be ready....she's up to something big I fear. I would be proactive and do something before she does...so she can bust faster.

your a was good...except for the night where you drug her home and talked to her like a third grader.

other than that, you've done a good plan a.

but she is still vascillating between you and om.

furthemore, she is breaking the heart also of her child...and that is horrible...more horrible sometimes to me how the kids suffer than the bs suffer.

something has to give. your family cannot stay sane in this awful limbo created by your ww.

let's get it straight. the woman had a choice to cheat or not to cheat. to keep a family or destroy one. she chose to do whatever she felt like doing...and she chose to simply feel good in the moment.

wrong choice. but she has had NO CONSEQUENCES FOR HER ACTIONS WHATSOEVER.

so she keeps on doing it...and believes that you will always be there, fatherlike and proper...there to clean up her little life messes.

Peach-
I agree about your suggestions on my PBL.
I like your comments about her chasing me. You are so right. The one being chased, WW has no reason to change because now I'm doing all the chasing. First time in our relationship I might add.

I think I spoiled OM's big plans for the evening. He keeps driving by the house. Real low life basturd. I tried to get WW to go out and eat with me and DD but she would not. Once she even put on her shoes and grabbed her purse but set down on the couch. Must have not got the courage to leave me and DD. DD is disappointed with WW now because she wanted all of us to go do something. I finally went and got food. That's when I seen low life driving by. It was hard for me to calm down before going back in the house. That's why I'm here for the moment.
Thanks Peach. I will write more on this later. Probably work on letter tomorrow.
Dazed

HI Dazed,


I think your B letter is very good.... I wouldn't change anything but this "When you call the house or my cell phone to visit with (D12), [color:"red"] I will not speak to you unless an emergency.
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That's a little bit of an out for her... YOU get to decide what is an emergency... not her.... and you probably should restrict her from calling your cell....

I'd probably would remove the "please remember me" also now that I think of it... a little beggy.....

The parts about your part in making it possibile for her to have an A is PURE HARLEY so I think that it's good you added them. It seems you read Harley's Plan "B" letter example....

Good job..... remember.... nothing is different yet... all is speculation over what will happen ie: she gets a job with OM (that could work FOR you... you never know... the GOOD side pulls sometimes too you know!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

About her hitting "bottom" I agree with you there... it doesn't ALWAYS have to happen.... It is painful for the WS the BS and really hard on the children to see a parent hit bottom and almost have a nervious break down...


And....I think the harder they hit.... the longer and harder the recovery because of the loss of self esteem which.... when you think of it... is a LARGE part of the reason WS become WSs. They are looking for someone to make them "Feel" good about themselves......to give the ego a lift..


Let's face it.. it's like with your young child... you want them to learn not to touch the stove but..... letting them get a 3rd degree burn OR.... FORCING THEIR HAND INTO THE FIRE ALL THE WHILE SAYING "TIME YOU LEARNED WHY YOU SHOULDN'T DO THIS"........isn't the answer either....then they are scared for life.... And when they get "Home" who will be the person that burned them? Not very loving and protecting....



You want your child to learn lifes lessons with as little pain as possible....and when they DO make a mistake...you should lovingly show them the error of their ways...and help them heal ... or in this case WS to heal COMPLETLEY some day with as little reminder (scars) as possibile...)


OK I know she is an adult... but.... she is a WS.. they aren't all that adult thinking during an A.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (even you DD knows what your WS is doing is wrong!!)

GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS...(I'll be praying hard for you guys over the next 7 days..) HANG TOUGH..... BELIEVE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />........DON'T REACT......

dazed,

As the attorney in the bunch I fear the inclusion of all the responsibility taking may make maintaining custody of your 12 year old an issue. It might be pure Harley but in this situation you have a family to look out for. Your wife may not be fighting for custody now but once her attorney sees how "everything was your fault" in such detail and in your handwriting he/she may say "why not go for it, you poor, poor, neglected wife". Rewrite it with an eye towards what the divorce court will think of it if read aloud in court. Protect your backside.

just my $.02.

Mr. Wondering

P.S.- I am so glad your attitude has changed. PLEASE HELP and others really seem to have gotten you on track now with a solid plan. A plan can be so empowering.

Mrs. W- Point taken.
Mr. W - Thanks for the support.
Frank- okay, maybe please has no place in a PBL.

I knew this week end was going to be tough.
Okay- Friday night WW acted very very flighty. I knew she wanted out bad but she hung around being very anti-social.
D12 told me this morning that she asked WW when I was out of the room why she does not play or talk to her any more. Not sure what WW said, but D12 was in her room crying. I went up to check on her and found her sad. So we put in a DVD and I decided to hang out with her to help her feel better. About 30 minutes later in walks WW all dressed up holding purse. Ask if I could move my truck so she could leave. I asked where are you going? She says out. I said you would rather leave than spend any time with us, okay. So, knowing I was really upset. Instead of moving my truck I got in it and left to go cool off. Went to the park to watch the fountains and think. Fell a sleep there. Woke up around 3Am and came home. WW on the couch says nothing.

This morning I snooped through her purse. Found a new cell phone. Seen she called OM at 10 last night. Just before asking me to move so she could go out.
Found hidden job application under make up basket. I think maybe he is working there.
This morning I baked some rolls first thing for breakfast. WW says she wants nothing from me and refused to look at me.
Oh- almost forgot. I seen OM circle our block several times last night. I know I spoiled some big plan by leaving.
Later this morning WW was in our room looking for cloths and sees a new door key on the dresser. She gets a weird look and says what is this. I told her its D12's new door key to her porch for the new handle assy. I installed last week end. She gives me the key and says prove it. So, I did.
I told her that if was going to change door locks I would at least tell her what I was doing. She says I doudt that. She still had a weird look. I ask, are you okay. She says no, I'm sick. I asked what I could do to help. She says you don't get it. NOTHING..Where not going to be together. We will never work out. I asked how could she predict the future. She turned and walked away.
I SHOULD HAVE JUST AVOIDED HER...LOVE BUSTERS
A few minutes later in the laundry room, she says: why are you doing this. Why can't you just leave me alone. It's over. You never loved me so just let go. When will you get it. I said you tell me you don't love me. She says I do just not in the right way. I said, your love elsewhere is not in the right way, and deep in side I think you know that. I left the room.
Then upstairs she started the same stuff. Telling me to just let her go and accept we are over and that I never cared or loved her for years so why now. I told her I never stopped, you just want to justify completely killing us. I told her: Because I still love you, I will not just happily go along with ripping our family in half. She got mad yelled a bunch of stuff at me. I asked her again how she knows that she is going to be happy elsewhere. She says well I never was here so what. Look at everything I have, its all crap. There is no us any more, you are not going to make me feel bad any more. You can not make me feel guilty for nothing, you can be sad I don't care. You can run off somewhere to be sad and I'm not going to come looking. She slamed shut the bath room door in front of me. Through some stuff around. D12 yelled at her to stop. WW yelled at me some more. I asked her I went out side to avoid any more. WW then left to go to her hair & nail appointment.
Me and D12 had loose plans on spending the day and possible night out of town. I don't know if I should go now or not. I feel like crap. My guess is if I'm gone, WW will be with OM for sure. If I'm here probably 80%.
I know LB's...
Do I continue with Plan A until she leaves with all her stuff and of files for divorce? I know several have said to get her out. Plan B and file. Some say, wait for plan B until there are not other options.

IMHO:

1. Get your DD to a counselor ASAP. Your W is harrassing your child and you are allowing it.

2. U get to a IC or call Jennifer ASAP. Learn how to id your boundaries and stand up for your family.

3. Form a bond with you and your DD as a family unit. A team. Be each other's support. She doesn't need videos, she needs to talk. She needs reassurance you and her are on the same page.

4. Secure your finances away from the WS' grasp. If the OM is brave enough to circle your home, he may want to take what you have via the WS. If there is any ring of truth to that theory, this c/b Very dangerous.

5. Check into your option for filing for full custody of your child. Yep get ready to take the D walk or the WS will bleed you until you are all dried up. Your W may not want that but the WS is in control right now and it w/b against your family's interest to allow her to continue the abuse on you

6. When you are ready, learn to reverse babble.

7. Try the motto: Plan A your spouse but plan B the WS.

8. Create an immedate support group. They don't have to know all, just enough to support you and your DD.

9. Go read Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobson.

take care,

L.

It is indeed getting worse.

I also believe it is imperative that you DO NOT INCLUDE ANY DECLARATIONS FROM YOU ON HOW YOU WERE A "BAD HUSBAND" AND HOW YOUR ACTIONS MAY HAVE LED HER TO HER AFFAIR.

courts can use it against you.

example: my xwh....when we were separated, found out that I was (only for 3 mos) taking lexapro. He tried to say that I was unstable...what the F???I have never left mty home...I held down a great job...I was always a dedicated mom and good wife...but it was his little loophole to make himself look good...gosh...he found out his wife was suffering from depression and attempted to use it against me in the divorce...and here I was...a medical professional and president elect of my state medical society...doesn't sound like somebody who'd get depressed huh?

and here's the kicker...depression was brought on by HIS ACTIONS AND DISREGARD FOR HIS WIFE AND FAMILY.

I had to get specialists to agree with my side...and they did...got several to say I was sane as the day was long and that my wxh was the reason for any depression and that mine was transient...aka gone after wh would be gone from my life.

and voila! the depression left when I realized that I did not have to carry his burdens any more...plan a was NOT good for me...I felt I had to keep up "reinventing" and making the old me even better day by day...all the while not love busting and he was getting worse and worse...

does that sound familiar?

I should have gone to b sooner..but a few years back, people were more leaning towards here a longer plan a.

anyway, the ws will try to use any declaration from a bs and use it against them...because they know they will look horrid in a divorce proceeding or a custody hearing ok?

I have since had same people (six months after separation but before d was final) (the docs) say that I was completely NOT depressed anymore and that they were glad I was on my own and healing nicely away from that man who in their opinions from my testimony was A NARCISSIST AND POSSIBLY A SOCIOPATH.

yea, that went into my legal file...that my xh was unable or unwilling to ever sit down in front of a ny of my counselors or therapists I had lined up...why? he was scared they'd get his number.

NEVER NEVER NEVER say you should have been a better H.

I'd say that your W should have been a better W and learned how to keep her skirt down and her pants up.

Your W is seriously damaging your daughter. I am sick to death of reading this trauma to the child. Please get her help immediately and keep this horrible woman away from her right now. Your W has turned into a WS.

she could recover, but your daughter should remain the primary focus right now.

listen to orchid. she's right.

but right now you've got a wayward on your hands. plan b the wayward..you have done a good a on what is left of your wife.

I would call police asap about the om doing the drive by's...it seems that he is stalking your family. just my .02

I feel he is stalking.

and your ww is eating the cake right up ok?

she's fogged out and crazy. wow...since when did 11k make somebody have these grandiose delusions? my god...you'd think she won lotto south!

she is emotionally dangerous to all who come in her path right now. especially your daughter. your daughter SHOULD BE FIRST NOW..AND BE PROTECTED.

I am concerned about this stalking om. He is also being the victim of her yo yo behavior and it's starting to make him imho unstable. now this guy is sick and tired and emotionally worn out and about to be pushed over edge too by your ww. she's playing and burning the candle from BOTH ends ok?

and she will get burned ...it is to happen.

you can't save her. you can pray she wakes up and wants to save herself though.

now this guy is violating your space and your family's feeling of safety. I would call police and say this man is constantly driving by your home, and you're afraid for yourself, and your daughter.


please help, your advice is good...but htis man's wife needs to hit bottom.

how much worse can she get? she's pretty darn awful right now and damaging in terms of abuse emotionally to both the daughter and the bs.

she is very emotionally abusive right now...and there's this secondary om who's doing drive by's...who knows if this wacko om will snap? who knows who will snap first?

I just want our friend and his daughter protected...and want dazed to protect his daughter above all right now.

No more enablement of the ws.

It cannot happen anymore.

It is disturbing to me and I cannot say or do anymore.

The prodigal son WAS ALLOWED BY THE FATHER to crash...and the son did it away from his home. all the while the father went on with his life and prayed for his son...son away, living it up, living large, spending all his inheritance...and then eating with pigs. but it had to happen...or else the prodigal would have NOT returned with a changed heart.

it is MORE damaging to SEE THE WS INCH DAILY CLOSER AND CLOSER TO ROCK BOTTOM...AND IN THE MEANTIME DISHING OUT EMOTIONAL ABUSE...than to implement plan B and go dark.

that is the truth period.