And it is good that you talk to the family and friends. I had to do that with our family and friends. I asked them also to help her find the way. To treat her adultery sternly...uncompromisingly. But also let her know that were she again to be the woman they knew, that this would all be put behind us.

So, once recovery starts, it will be your job to protect her from those that would want to continue holding it over her head.

But right now, she is an infidel...

In His arms.

Mortarman, thanks for putting exposure into into perspective. The general tendency is to keep these matters private, so when you expose you are viewed as punishing the WS. My WW keeps saying "you told people our dirty laundry, you let my brother hear the tape...that is just mean". After a few times you start to believe that maybe it was overboard and you could have done it differently.

I keep telling my in-laws "how do you think telling you this makes me feel?". I want them to know that I feel hurt, ashamed and lacking in self-esteem so they understand that I'm doing it ot end the A.

Even if my M doesn't work out, I feel much better about revieling the truth. Releasing that weight from my shoulders did a lot of good for my own recovery. I just hope it helps my WW also.

I sure made a mess...I just hope it cleans up nice!!!

When my BW started finding out about my A, she wanted me to come clean. One of the things in order to come clean was to come clean with my family. At the time, I was avoiding telling her the WHOLE truth in hopes I could get past this without it. So I told them the truth as far as it had gotten out. It did nothing for me. Anyway, as the real truth started trickling out while they asked me difficult questions, my parents were NOT happy with me either. However, when I finally came out and told them the story about what happened and told them how I was going to prevent it from happening again, they were a lot more "behind" me. I think just owning up and telling the truth no matter how shameful it was/is, is a great step in "winning" your family/friends back. I explained how I felt like I was in a fog and that it wasn't me. I became somebody I wasn't. But now I was back. They understood and it made all the difference towards recovery.

I don't know how to tell your W to do that but I am sure it would make a big impression on her family and friends. It would let the dirty "secret" out and people could see it, digest it, and get over it. They will get over it. Maybe if her and her mom are talking, you could ask your mom just to be open and tell her that there will be no hard feelings no matter what she says - just tell me what happened and what is happening. Once she gets it off her chest, she will feel a lot better to have someone besides the OM to talk to. Perhaps, once she sees that someone besides you is on "her" side and doesn't care about what she did in the past, she will see that it is not so bad to tell the OM to...well you know what.

I am about your age (36). When I felt like my mom and dad were backing me on coming back to the M, it made a lot of difference. She really needs someone to talk to (again, other than you) and her mom might be a great place to start. When she needs to talk, she obviously runs to the OM who is more than happy to dish out the advice and describe the future with him. That has to stop.

Hang in there buddy,
SNT

Dazed --

She is going to have to overcome her issues regarding her "image." She's put herself on this pedestal of being the good girl -- the great mom -- the super wife. And maybe she was those things in the past. (More likely she was an ordinary mortal.)

And now she has to give up that image. She knows in her own heart that what she has done is ugly and immoral. She's probably struggling a great deal to understand how she's gotten herself into such a mess. She's lashing out at you, because you're an easy target for the blame.

You asked me how I got myself into such a mess, how did I choose to stray?

Before it happened, I would have thought it was impossible. I was very judgemental about the subject of cheating. If adultery touched my marriage, I was positive it would have been my husband doing it, and I would have been certain I would have left him....HA.

Well, I wasn't happy overall. I had reached a point where my H had failed several major "tests." I gave up. I had it in my mind that I would stay for a while. Until my kids were at a more manageable age. I wasn't in some abusive horrible situation -- I could tolerate it for a few more years. But the idea of divorce was already in my mind.

When I met OM, initially I portrayed myself as a happily married woman. But I quickly got addicted to the feeling of having someone pursue me, flirt with me, find me attractive. I had been taken for granted by my H for so long, that this kind of attention was very suductive. With the attention I got from OM, I became less and less satisfied with the idea of waiting. I started thinking that the affair wasn't hurting anyone -- it was just something for me. My little slice of happiness.

In the meantime, I was lying to OM. Making it seem like my marriage was almost over -- to keep him strung along.
I was deliberatly destroying the so-so relationship with my husband because I was planting the seed of leaving.
I thought I could orchestrate all of this into a happy ending -- where my husband cheerfully divorced me, my kids were introduced to OM and liked him. My extended family accepted and embraced the situation.

ITS A TOTAL FANTASY! But I really thought I could manipulate all of this into happening.

That is what exposure destroys -- the ability to spin and control. And Plan B? whoa -- talk about loss of control! Now I couldn't decide how or when things were gonna happen -- my husband was making me leave! without my kids!

I feared a custody battle greatly. Its hard not to when you are behaving so immorally and everyone knows about it. And what does losing your kids look like to everyone?

And you know what dazed? I knew OM was scummy the whole time I was doing all of this. Thats the part that I still have trouble comprehending. I'm a smart woman -- genius level IQ. And even knowing what I knew deep inside -- I still proceeded with this. Amazing to me now.

Your wife knows that OM has flaws. Its going to be important to emphasis those flaws to everyone possible -- without you being the one doing it.

more later if I can...

Lexxxy-
Your story really really got to me. That is exactly how I see this through my wifes eyes. The bits and pieces that my wife has told me, understanding how she felt in our marriage, how she is feeling now. The way she was treating me and our family at the height of the affair. YOU ARE SO RIGHT. She had really believed in the fantasy just as you put it.
Lexxxy-Your help means SO MUCH to me. I know I have said, it before. I will keep on saying it too.

I look forward to hearing from you again.
As for me. I am out the door to see what another night will bring. WW is picking up daughter and taking her to swim. I doudt I will see her again until 10pm. I know where her escape home is at and last night her an OM was there with the girl friend owner. I think WW has OM painting and working on it for her.

How are things, Dazed?

Not much big news to report.
Just some details.
LAST NIGHT DETAILS:
Yes,
Not much to report.
I kinda LBed with out even using my head. I was in a good mood when I got home. Daughter was very happy to see me carry in her brand new saxophone. We looked at it and she was very happy. I walked by the wifes make up room and seen her doing her hair. With out a thought in the world. I just rolled out, gotta a hot date... OH ******...
Of course she did.... Well she said, I am just fixing my hair. It's not straight and I don't like it screwed up.. GOD... I said, sorry.
She took daughter to swim team. And did not return for two hours when she picked daughter back up. I did not ask where she was or nothing. OM was not at his house while she was gone. I know they were together. I left before she got back. I called on my cell about the time they were getting home. I asked WW if she could watch daughter for a couple hours while I am out. She says, sure. What are you doing? I said, well I am out. She said, gotta a hot date...
I laughed and said, well probably not as hot as yours. She laughed a little and said, yeah right.
I said, thank you and good bye.
She was not so cold to me tonight when I got home. She was going to sleep on the couch when I went to her and said, What are you doing? Why are you down her when there are two beds up the stairs. WW says it okay, I am fine. I said, is this what you want? She said, I am fine.. As she wiggles around with three small throws for blankets on her. I said, you look oh so comfortable and warm. She said, I am fine. Besides I don't deserve a bed right. I said, okay if thats what you think. She said, well thats what you want. Me to have nothing. I said, okay. Thats where this is going huh. Let's just remember one thing. You filed on me. You know where I stand. She said, yes. You think I should get nothing. I said, you know what I mean. This is all in a light tone of voice. I said, okay I will say it one more time. I want to tear up the pappers of divorce. Wrap my arms around you and hold you for the rest of time. Okay, I said it again.... I said, so you ready to go up stairs now. She said, that guest bed hurts my back. I said, you sleep in our bed. The one I bought just for your bad back. I will bunk in the guest room. She said, no its your bed. Our voices were never raised. It was more a cat and mouse thing. I said, okay last offer. I turning the lights out. She said, I am fine. Off the ligts went, up I went. I went and got her a comforter from the closet. Her memory foam pillow off our bed and took them down. Turned the light on again and said, in a light hearted voice. You got to be the most stubborn woman I have ever met. Here's you pillow. She says, no I don't want it. I am fine. I said, okay I will just set it down here on the floor. She said, you use it. I said, its yours remember it was a christmas gift from me to you two years ago. She kinda looked away as I set it down. I put the blanket at her feet and said, if you want it, its here.
Thats all for tonight.

TODAY:
Well when I went down to wake her up she had used the pillow and blanket. (Stubborn woman).
I woke her up just like the last fifteen years. Brushing her hair back off her face lightly. She did not complain.
There was no talking.
Later while she was in the shower and I was brushing my teeth, she ask. So how is work going. I said, well not much new. She says, really are you okay. I said, well I am behind on stuff but its okay. So she says, well I know its all my fault for doing this to you. I left the room.
I went back in to put by brush away. She said, BS I do worry about you and care about what happend to you. I said, I can tell. She kinda got mad. Said, do you think I don't care about you? I said, I don't know what you think about me any more. She said, that is how I felt about you for so long. I said, I am sorry for that. She says, if I did not care about you I would not be here right now. I would have left you and taken everything. I said, okay I know you care about me. You just have a weird way of showing it.
I left the room again.
Later while I was ironing my shirt she says, I tried to make this as painless as possible. I said, what... She said, I tried to be fair with you and work with one lawyer just you and me. I said, yes, you were soooooo nice to me. You filing for a divorce to feed an affair, yet you were nice to me. Really showing me you care so much for me. Such a friend and wife of you, thank you.
You know how I feel about you. WW, I know you care, okay. I care about you and us too. I left the room and took daughter to school.

Today she called me to talk about her car engine. Ask who she could take it to for repair. I asked her if she could get a loan. She said, why... I said, your engine is broken. There is water running out of the exhaust, and now the rods are knocking. A shop will charge you 2k.
She said, well I guess I will just buy another one. How long will it run. How do I put water in it. I said, your husband pulls the hood lever, removes the radiator cap, pours anti-freeze in it for you.
She says: really, can I do it? I said, sure.
She was quite for a moment. Then says, maybe I should just do like ZYX. (former school mate ran his car into a concrete build piller at high speed). I said, yeah I know what you mean. (light hearted with a laugh). She says, NO, you have know understanding.... I said, Well this is headed in the wrong direction. Talk to you later.. bye.

She calls again minutes later.
WHAT ARE YOU TELLING PEOPLE ABOUT ME... I said, what now.
She says, our friend Chuck just called and he said, he heard I was with another man and we were probably getting divorced. I said, well Chuck is your brother friend. Don't you think he talks about family stuff with Chuck.
She says, well I asked him that. Chuck says, he heard it from a girl that works at your office. I said, well I did have to tell HR lady when they forced me to explain my sudden drop in work and attendance. She said, she heard rumors that I was going through a divorce. So, I did tell her we are working through problems in our marriage. That's it. She says, well.... okay...
I well let you go know. bye.

Good stuff Dazed. Good Plan A stuff. Keep it up.

When is the next round with the lawyers/courts?

In His arms.

don’t know what she is doing legally right now. We have not talked about it at all since Sunday afternoon. Our hearing date is 9:30AM next Monday. She is obviously still in the house. That tells me she is going to contest my full custody move, and or is just afraid of leaving.

She is doing all she can to spin my counter for custody as me being unfair and spiteful. She keeps saying how she was so careful to be fair and she feels so bad as it was. Then I go for full custody. Which her friends have all told her I can not win because she filed first and I am a man, besides she was a great mother for years and is not on drugs or alcohol. I have not really got into that fight with her besides to say its not about her and the parent she was.

My fear is that things over custody will get ugly. I mean down right hateful.
I think she will take one of two paths:

1) Will go on and let me take the temporary full custody and all assets. She will have her cloths and car. She will leave the house after court Monday and go to her temporary house to live out fantasy island with OM. This will give her the trial life with him and no kids or me to get in the way. I believe she thinks this will take all the pressure off her and him. Also, they can have 60 days to see just how great things can be with out me and daughter. She probably thinks that she can come home at any time if she chooses. She probably thinks she can contest the temporary actions and still get daughter 50/50 if she wants.



2) She will not agree to the temporary terms and will leverage me into 50/50 by forcing me to leave the house, give up assets and money. This would be a scare tactic she could us.



I bet she will take the option 1. This plays along with the POOR ME victim role that she likes. This gives her the excuse to get out of the house with out caring for our daughter and can take that test life with OM that she so wants so much.

ANY IDEAS?

LEXXY--- How about your perspective.

Well, if she takes option 1, then make sure she understands what the consequences of that action are:

1. That at the end of the 60 days, you won't take her back. If she leaves, it IS forever...no friendship, no NOTHING to do with you ever. To include anything to do with family events either...that means when DD graduates, WW better plan on sitting someplace else...and better not have OM for you to run into or she's going to hate the repercussions of THAT.

2. DD12 WON'T forgive her. Because basically mom is choosing OM over her. She likes to think that you're somehow brainwashing this poor child, but the reality is that your DD12 has more sense right now than Wmom does, and totally hates the fact that her mom can't act like a moral, normal human being. Go figure why she'd be mad at mom...and then choosing to break up HER family...if mom wants to alienate her daughter, she's going about it the right way.

3. Given all that you've both learned about OM, and all of the doubts that she's having, this choice is going to leave her without ANYONE or ANYTHING if she makes it...she won't have OM in the end, because he's going to end up moving on and doing this to someone else, she won't have you since she destroyed your marriage, and she won't have DD since she destroyed her family...all because she couldn't make a simple choice when it mattered.


And if she chooses option 2:

1. Good luck. How's she going to force YOU out of the house? You're going for full custody, and in most states the parent with custody wins the residence. Not to mention most of the assets. She can try to fight this battle, but the odds are against her given the whole infidelity issue and poor parenting...

Myself friend...I'd suggest that you continue to hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Keep plan A'ing as best you can, don't let her just run off to OM anytime she wants. Myself, I'd announce to the world everytime she does so...blast an email out to her family and friends letting them know where she's at...let them know that they're free to give her a call on her cell during those times...LOL. But don't let her feel like she can just go with OM anytime she wants with no consequences. EVERYTHING we do in life has consequences...the trick is to make sure that she FEELS those consequences, while at the same time making staying with you seem like a much more wonderful choice.

Just my thoughts...hopefully you'll get better feedback from others here.

I say -- YEA!!! CHUCK!!!

Did you notice anything about that interaction with her?
Chuck had accurate information...right?
Yet your conversation with her was about "how" he found out rather than "what" he found out.
Instead of making a bunch of excuses as to how the truth got out...just say "yeah? sounds like the truth, whats wrong?" or say "guess people know you're having an affair..."

She's still thinking that she's going to leave this marriage without everyone knowing she's a tramp. Make it clear to her that you will not participate in hiding the truth.

Does she really expect you to protect her from her own actions?????


Ok -- as far as the legal manuverings....lets HOPE she goes for Option 1. And if she does, you go Plan B immediately. For some reason, you dislike the idea of her doing the test drive -- to me it is the most likely route for breaking up her fantasy.

If that should happen -- I would expose to the world -- no protection for her. Hopefully daughter will continue to protest her actions. Hopefully more of your circle of family and friends will pressure her. She will be deeply depressed. She will have lost so much -- and do you really think OM is going to overcome that???? Not a chance. Especially with the holidays coming up.

I can't picture a better scenario for her-- Plan B, Christmas, angry daughter, and OM who doesn't measure up. The affair doesn't stand a chance against that.

And BTW -- do you have a PI working on documenting where she is spending her time?

When you go to court next Monday are you going to be able to show the judge that "mom" was with her lover Mon. and Tues. and Thurs.??
That "mom" spent the weekend with her lover instead of going to her beloved daughters swim meet?

And do you have background dirt on why DD should not be allowed around OM? Is the restraining order in effect or just requested?

This is KEY!! You should have documented all of the hours that your wife was away from you and daughter and with OM. I did. I showed that my wife spent most of her free time with OM, much more than she spent with the kids.

You should have this, even if it is in a daily journal. The judge will accept a journal...and my bet is she wont have a journal. So when your attorney asks "well, did yo uspend all of these days with OM and miss your daughter's play, swim meet, etc?" Her answer will be...silence.

The next stop for you is nextr Monday. Get it all together. The custody hearing was what woke my wife up. When I got custody, the fog immediately blew away. It may help your wife come out also.

In His arms.

( I wrote this before LEXXXY and MORT)

LEXXXY--- I totally think the same way... Of course I wish she would come home tonight and say its over with him I love you. WE KNOW ITS A DREAM...
Of the two options I wrote I do believe if she choose to leave with out daughter for the 60... She will never make it. I believe I could do a plan B with a very detailed map for her return.
I did the back ground check on him and there is no legal dirt to be found. The guy has jumped houses as often as jobs. His wife apparently holds all the secrets on him.
OH ONE POSSIBLE CONNECTION:
Wifes company owner has all her and his emails from the past 6 mo.... Is there a way I could get that information legally from him for court if it came to that? He likes my wife. I seriously doudt he would help me any other way.
________________________________________________________
I was just thinking of a way that I could stop the lunch dates and after work dates while daughter is out.

How can I do this and Plan A at the same time?
All with out Love Busting and making me less attractive.
The thing I have to keep telling myself is... How do I make myself look attractive and yet open her eyes to the pain and destruction she is doing to all of us by her actions.

Just last night she was AWOL for two hours. Just so happens so was OM... I had my friend look for her and him for positive proof and to take pictures and note for my journal. However, they could not be found.

****** YES, they hate it when I bust up there dates. That really PISSES off other man. Makes him scared and ruins the fun of there time together. It was after I caught them last Monday that he made her go through with filing for the divorce. Last Monday was the fourth time "I" caught them in public. Each time she has been way mad at me and OM each time turns the wick up.

I was just thinking of calling her and telling her we need to discuss this divorce thing tonight while daughter is out. That will seperate her and the puke, plus we really do need to discuss this stuff.
I have no idea what she is thinking right now. I feel I need to help her see that if she continues that she will no longer have access to "ME". Because of my plan A attempts she believes that I will be ready to take her back when ever she is ready.
She told me the night that she filed. When I asked her about being trapt with a loser at the end of all this. She said In her little girl voice: "Wouldn't you come and get me when I call".
She has also asked me at times how long the window will stay open for her. She always follows that up with probably not long. You are so beautiful that some one will scoop you right up.

My point is. Yes, she does think I may just wait for her. Lord knows I have helped her think that. I have almost had to though. In order to help her understand what happened to me and how I still loved her when I was AWOL.

Look at what she had done to me. I still want her. What other message could she take from this other than i will wait for her to fail with him. That is really what Plan A during all this tells the WS...

Attorneys discuss divorce...you discuss marriage. No need to talk about divorce with her, as a divorce is not what you want. ONLY discuss divorce with her when YOU want a divorce.

I say again...your attorney is about the divorce. Yo uare about the marriage. She already knows what she is about to lose. That is why she is fighting so hard to keep from losing those things and not lose OM. But she must lose something. And either she will decide or the judge will.

Be about your marriage. Be consistent.

In His arms.

I know you're trying to stop them from being together tonight -- however it is far more in your better interests to LET her be with him and DOCUMENT that she was. Again lose the battle/win the WAR.

Please have some type of organized documenation on all the time she is spending away from the FAMILY (not just you or not just daughter....always package it as "family")

Mort- Yes I have documented hours since D-Day...
I got one for yah....

Daughter made the comment to WW about spending the night at a friends this week end. WW says, ask your dad. He is in charge. I said, we need to see. Stuff like who is going to be there and what you will be doing. Well talk later. WW says after daughter leaves. That is funny. You let her spend the night at Ex-SIL's with all kids of kids there including boys. I said, well mom... Where were you to voice you opinion? She says, I was here holloween night. I said, yes you were. She spent the night Holloween Saturday night. Where were you at mom? She looks away from me and is silent. I said, we both know where you were at don't we? His apartment until 2:30AM. While you were there. I was with our daughter at Ex-SIL's as late as 2AM. That is how I know where you were and when you came home. There was no more to that conversation.

I am tring to get a PI set up right now.
I have to go for awhile. Write more later.

Time for everything to be taken away, Dazed. She is going to have to hit bottom.

Get intel, keep exposing when they are together. make it very uncomfortable for them.

Then go in and get custody...then go dark! The bottom is coming up fast for your wife.

In His arms.

besides the PI...please make sure you are DOCUMENTING ALL THE TIMES YOUR WW THREATENS TO COMMIT SUICIDE..that shows her as an unstable parent...(your plan A spin on it is that the OM is causing her to have too much pressure in her life...thus she is unstable...but that is what you tell her if she says "why are you doing this to me again?")..

have those words and times and what she was doing documented..like earlier today "I wish I could end up like xyz(friend who rammed his car into wall or something)".

That will be almost as huge as her being the absent affair happy mom in eyes of judge. Not only is she immoral in her actions of now, but she is unstable.

I fear she is truly becomig this way dazed.

PI...

oh and I've told you the way to get the dirt on OM...no need to subpoena a company computer...

subpoena THE XW OF OM! If she lies under oath about him being a perv and a sadist, she will be in contempt and could face jail time. If the XW is a pushover, that means she'd do great in court...so what if she backs down about OM and truth to most people? A subpoena can change it all and put your WW and OM in a most different light to judge.

Here is your order to secure custody. Check this off when you obtain it:
1)PI...get photos of them together..times and dates also from your journal
2)phone records: showing all calls, text messages, home and cell between ww and OM and times dates, etc.
3)witnesses who have seen them together...could even be her friends...subpoena them too..as hostile witness...as OM's wife needs to be subpoenae'd.
4)OMXW testimony...that is crucial to showing OM true colors to world further exposing.
5)your journals at home...when ww comes and goes..where she goes...and time she spends with dd vs. time away from dd. this is HUUUUUGE in court ok?
6)the time and date of WW threats of suicide...even if implied.

That's it...that's all folks. dazed wins custody. WW hits bottom.

I've been preaching this for some time...ww needs to hit bottom so she can look up...when her eyes are focused upward, she can open them to faith, and to the reality of what she has done..which is really bad stuff...and she will have hopefully after next monday a nice plan B roadmap to come back...when she loses her pride and vanity.

Just thought of one more angle to check....
OM's Ex-wife is looking very good now. All happy and stuff. Especially with her new man that is now finishing OM's house projects that he left undone. Like the upstairs bathroom he torn out and then stopped.

Of course this is risky and would have to be very well planned out.
What do you think OM would do if he seen pictures of his Ex-W already moved on with a very nice looking man that also happens to be finishing all his projects including his Ex-Wife?

I would never dream of putting any one other than OM in harms way. But I think he would be hurt by this. Probably run right over there to let her know what he thinks about her and her new man. Capturing this reaction would be great for my WW to witness. I just wish I had teamed up with her before when he went over there and threatened to kill her and physically roughed her up when he learned she was talking to me....