Hey Daisy-
Thank you for thinking about me.
Thank all of you who have been praying for me and my family. I have said, return prayers for all of you too.
I believe that the lord is all around us. It is up to us to choose to let him in..

Week end update:
Roller coaster... Sums it up...
I believe OM pulled some big love busters on WW this week end. Wife was really hurting and I think OM was the cause of most of it. It appears to me the longer she stays on the fence the more OM is love busting. I feel he is pulling on all the strings right now.

Friday night she looked as if she was in pain. Really suffereing as she lay on the couch clutching a pillow with her back facing outward.
Saturday she attacked me about divorce and all the usual stuff. I love busted at first. Later she came back at me and beat me up really hard with words. I took it. She then came back and appologized and wanted to hold me. She then went to her mothers house for the night...
WW has finally made up with her mom this week end.....Great news!!
Sunday was very peaceful and I was able to score a 100% for the day on my Plan A...WW opend up to me again confessing her fears about trust in me. We shared a very good evening together.

Day by day is my new approach to plan A.... I will grade myself at the end of each day. Each night I will review myself. Also, reinforce the basic concepts, how not to love buster, and what my goal is and how I need to get there.
I believe this will allow me to take one step ahead each day with out the major love buster set backs I have pulled in the past.

I am not going to push to continue the divorce. I will continue to work for a perfect plan A grade, while holding my ground on the boundries of divorce. I believe the wife knows those boundries now. She know's I will not cave in and give her an easy way out now.
I really believe the longer I can work a perfect plan A the more stress and pressure OM will place on there relationship. HE IS DOING JUST THAT...

Keep in mind her affair ran unchecked for seven months...
Just look at what has happened since D-DAY. A ton of stuff.

It has only been 2 months since D-Day when fantasy island was going wide open, full throttle with NO problems.
Now.. 9-5-05, you know she had no doudts in her mind OM was her dream guy and she was going to leave me. She had been slowly working him into every part of her life and family. It was only time before she would be able to end our dieing marriage and plug OM into her life. You know she had no concept that anything was going to stop that. She had to think this was actually meant to be and would also be easy to pull off.

NOW ONLY 2 MONTHS LATER, WHERE IS FANTAST ISLAND. WELL HURICANE (BS) HAS HIT AND IS NOT LEAVING ANY TIME SOON.

1) OM's wife filed for divorce because he would not stop his affair. There divorce has went final. She has also moved on already with a new man.. ouch..

2) OM has lost his job at WW's workd place. No more contact and play time when ever they feel like it. His new job is also a pay cut and at a pretty crappy place to work. The owner of OM's new work place is known around here for being a _ucker.

3) WW lost her cell phone on D-DAY. The number one tool of contact for them. (SHE HAS ALSO GIVEN HER NEW SECRET CELL PHONE BACK TO OM). This as of last FRIDAY.

4) WW's work place all know's of her affair. Her job is in serious jepordy now. Her boss knows of her actions with OM.
All her our family and friends know about her affair.

5) OM's parents know about there son and his affair with a married woman with kids. They also know about how scared he is and how he is now suffering because of it. (HE SPENDS THE NIGHT WITH THEM WHEN HE IS SCARED I MIGHT COME GET HIM)

6) WW's daughter has made it clear to her that she wants her to stay with the family and if she goes, she is staying with Daddy.

7) WW has discovered I do really care about her. Never in a million years thought I would step up and trying to save our marriage or even love her any longer. (MUCH WORK TO DO).

8) She is STILL in the house with me even after all this. In spite of OM hiring an attourney, pushing her to the door of the attourney. She stops the divorce petition. OM telling her she can not go back into our home with me. Then her attourney belittles her for being a WW. She was only doing what OM wanted and look what it got her. Then OM tells her she has to sleep on a couch and not in the same room with me...Must be comfortable..he he IF OM know's she stopped the petition he paid for, he must be furious.

9) She is telling OM she still loves ME...Tells me OM don't understand...He don't know why it is so hard for her and is demanding she FOLLOW THROUGH with there plan. Which she is still not doing.

I still believe in order for a plan B to work I must continue to finish up plan A. I know she may force the issue and give me no choice. Her filing for the divorce really put things into panic mode. However, the longer she defies OM's wishes, the further fantasy island sinks under water.
I totally believe if there were no fantasy island and OM... She would buy into giving us another try....

LEXXXY----Would you consider talking to me? I would really like to speak with you if you are open to it. I know you have walked the same path my wife is walking and I feel I can learn so much from you. If you don't want to, I will understand. If you will, let me know.

Dazed, I don't know if I have ever posted to you, but I just wanted to say how much I respect your dedication to your M. Your day by day plan sounds great. I can not imagine how strong you must feel being able to put up with this crap. As a FWW, I think you are a hero.

But, please keep your legal butt covered.

I really hope that one day your (F)WW will be here posting about how her BH rescued her from the depths.

My hat is off to you!

Thank you JEAN---
I have read a little of your post from time to time. You must be very strong yourself...
Any man to leave his two babies you know is not right in the head...
You have your head on straight and you are rightous. Stay strong and god bless you...

SOAP BOX
You know when you think about it, it's not living day by day that helps carry us off course in life. Not that planning for retirement and building a better future is wrong, it living life day by day with the people that you love. Showing that love day by day...The thought of doing it tomorrow, or let's plan for tomorrow is what starves friendships and marriages. (I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE)
There is no time like the present to do the right thing. So many good things come from this mind set, just as long as you are a morally grounded.
I fell into that rut...totally unaware of it. Before I new it the last 3 years have past me by and so too had my marriage.

Dazed, No talking with women off-line. This is not proper. Do it here, or talk to a man off-line.

In His arms.

MM- I guess I really did not think of it as a man to woman thing. Your probably right to be cautious.
To me you all are my coaches as I soidler threw the toughest mission I have ever faced. Never really thought of it any other way. Friendly and not so friendly advisers to me.

You all have a good idea where I stand in my personal war.
I have two options. Kill with kindness or tough love with nukes.
This is my struggle. The wife keeps telling me and others, she don't believe in my changes. Thinks I am not for real. See's things she likes, however is so worried I will not keep going and will just win her back then punish her and go back to the same old samd old.

My question to ALL former WW's who was neglected by there husbands.
WHAT DID IT TAKE FOR YOU TO BELIEVE IN HIM ENOUGH TO END YOUR AFFAIR AND GIVE YOUR MARRIAGE ANOTHER SHOT???????
I know LEXXXY has said, the doors closing on her really helped clear the fog. I think at times I have seen the same thing from my wife. However, this also drove her closer to OM. Which many, including LEXXXY claim this is the only way to make them fail. Is give her the oppourtunity under horrible conditions to try to make it fly and set back and watch her crash burn and crawl out of the wreckage then try to save her.
To me I still think I might save her with LOVE first. Let's face it she CAN NOT make a descion for herself. I MEAN CAN NOT. Even now she is proving to OM she can not do it for him either. She has even said to me if she new when she met him that she would end up having and affair with him she would have never done. The only reason she is in this deep is becaues it was a slow process that she did not have to make any real descions. Then I was love busting like crazy not knowing she was having an affair, so I just kept pushing her closer to him and making it easy for her.

SO my point is. KNOWING she can not make her own mind up.
LEXXXY- Or and other WW wives that went back home...
I need all the advice you have to offer.
I know PLAN A, NO LOVE BUSTERS...
What about a any ideas how to reach out to her and not come off over bearing.
Like LEXXXY said, she was really pissed off when her husband starting doing everything for her that he blew off for years. This is a tough road to walk. Maybe I know the answer.
Part of me thinks I need to be inventive and create things to prove myself. Part of me thinks, just be nice and let her come to me. Then when she does, just listen, be a friend, and demonstrate there is a way through the pain and mess home.
I do not think she is ready for nukes and a boot to the curb. Yes, she has said too much in front of daughter. I do agree she has many toxins that she has used on me in front of daughter. However, this a reinforced daughters posistion of this and WW knows it.

I have some specific questions to ask WW's out here. That is why I kinda wanted to do that in private.

One other idea is WW is now REALLY wanting help for this. She made herself an appointment for IC tomorrow afternoon.
I hope this person is pro-marriage. An idea that came to me was possibly to have WW speak to a former WW from here.
Maybe a bad idea. Could backfire on me big time if not really well thought out. Just an idea.
The councelor she is meeting with is a woman and is someone new.
Any ideas...

Dazed-

I never saw a response to my suggestion that you get the lawyers involved in establishing NC.

Have you given this any thought? Considered running it past them for feasibility?

To me, this is exactly what you need...get your wife removed from the OM's persuasion...one way or another. He's going to continue to poison her every opportunity he gets. And THAT is why she's waffling so hard in her choices...she gets full of his venom, then comes home and the venom is worn away by your love...but then goes back for more venom. You need to find an end to this cycle. She MIGHT end it on her own when her relationship with him becomse so toxic she can't stand it herself...but at this point, there's no safe way to predict when that will be....could be tonite...could be two years from now.

Let me know what you think.

Dazed --
Completely swamped at work right now -- I'll try to get on later tonight to throw a few ideas your way!

Owl--Yes, sorry i did not comment on your idea...
Awesome idea... I have had a couple others tell me to try the same thing..

I will go back and read your prior post and do some thinking about how to give it a try.
Any more ideas about this would be appreciated.

This maybe just what will help my WW. I agree this would be time for her to de-tox and withdrawl from OM and let her focus on us.

You are so right....He really has nothing to pull him away from my wife.
He has cashed in all his chips for her. His marriage, his job. Factor in that he apparently has very little social life and friends. He and his parents are from this city. Is not leaving as I see it. So, what motivation does he have to give up on her?
He has went all in on winning her. Plus, you know she is stringing him along, has promised they would be together.

Knowing she is so NONE decisive it worries me about how to get her to choose NC. I have felt my best odds to get to try recovery is for this loser pulla MAJOR love buster or just flat out leave her.

That is another thing that scares me about a PLAN B approach. He has no life right now other than to chase her. She struggles to make any real hard choices. Just how long would it take for them to crash??? I see if I through her out, pressed divorce, OM would be there to rescue her from me the angry, hostile, mean, selfish, controlling husband. HE THINKS THAT RIGHT NOW AND IS SELLING THAT TO HER ANYWAY. One thing that is somewhat helping me know is that OM thinks he can reverse plan B her. When he tells her if you don't follow through, I am not going to wait for you for ever, or if you really love me and we are really solemates then you will divorce him NOW. If I am doing a PLAN A the right way. She runs home to the one NOT pressing her. I think that is what has kept her around as it is. I think OM pulled something like that again this week end.
I know he is a prop, and illusion but, he is one _ell of a problem...

I know many on her have given me advice to provide that motivation. The door hitting her in the back side. I think that is what HE wants and it would just be an easy way out for the WW that is on the fence.

OWL--- YOUR IDEA IS GREAT... Might be my best option to seperate her from this magget any time soon.

ONE MORE THING:
Any ideas how I address WW conforming to his rules of NC with me?
Basically if Daughter is not in the house. WW is not suppose to be either....
Now that daughter is done a couple hours during the evening for swim, dance, and leadership, WW is not allowed to be in the house alone with me.
How do I approach this and not LB at the same time. I have been pointing it out how shameful it is for her to do this for him. In othe words really beat her up with words for conforming to his rules of not being alone with me.

I bet he would like to know it was me she was calling for last night to hold her and did for hours.....

Dazed,

I know a lady who went to a lawyer and told him to write up a letter to her H that if he doesn't quit drinking she is divorcing him!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

She did this twice.

He quit drinking, and he has been sober many years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I guess the same could pertain to your sitch. Only W is intoxicated with OM...

Lady

Ok -- the strategy to implement is to get OM to LB the crap out of her.

We always talk about WS's being on the fence, right? Well lets think about the "other side" of the fence right now. OM is there trying to convince her that she ought to be with him.

She is not convinced that OM is the right decision. He has a lot to prove to her. If she has doubts in her mind about him, we need to find a way to emphasis them -- however it can't be YOU stirring this up. You will make her defensive about him.

We need to strategize on finding a way to make it clear to her that he is not a good provider (you are...) he is not good step-father material (you're a great dad...) the perverted sex stuff (ought to scare her plenty...)

The contrast between you and him will be clear -- you don't have any more to prove to her. Just keep being consistent!
Thats how she'll come to trust you.

I tried telling you before that this is his game to lose. There isn't anything more YOU can do to move her your way. She needs to make the choice to move AWAY from OM. We want him to pressure her, LB her, etc. That is why Plan B works.

Anyone else have ideas on how to make fantasyland implode?

lexxy you're right...and dazed, this is the part you're not getting yet!

You're doing everything humanely possible...but it's not working enough yet.

OM has got to show his true colors. And you need to believe that he will love bust all over the place because you precisely summed up what he's done...he's cashed in all his chips...that in itself alone makes him needy and controlling all at the same time. key to affair crashing right there!

Hmmm...how to destroy fantasyland? Easy. the OM has to be able to FAIL at meeting WW's EN's. Lexxy knows! She's been there!

let me explain to you dazed what an affair partner does NOT want...LOSS OF THE FANTASY...AND LOADS OF REAL WORLD...they don't want it. Again, it's like sunlight to a vampire!

for example, I have analyzed from a distance why my xh's affair marriage has gone so far south so darn fast...OW to get my xh, pulled out all the stops...she cashed in her chips for him in a big way...sex stuff, posing as a model in a men's magazine that almost every guy buys (helped make xh's ego even bigger than it was), be the complete OPPOSITE OF ME, THE BW, and all about fun fun fun and partying!

That truly met my xh's surface needs. It was all fun and games...trips to las vegas, trips to st. lucia, bahamas, etc...oh what a world of fun they had! And then suddenly it happened...she forced an issue. Our divorce was NOT going fast enough...how could she up the ante? by getting pregnant deliberately as she did with her xbf, thinking it would knock MY H off the fence and then threaten to pack bags and that he'd never see baby again (know this from a phone call from her 2.5 years ago). She immediately began pressurizing tactics which continue to this day...my xh does NOT respond well with pressure tactics. His only soft spot before this during and still with my xh's fog is that he loves our son. He could not imagine leaving the baby's life. I understood and got that part. Heck, I love all children including this little girl..so he married her.

Immediately the fantasy ended. Heck it had to end b/c she was pregnant. No more trips, partying, or anything. Suddenly my xh found out he'd married a stranger...an outsider. and one definitely completely different than me.

How do we do this for dazed's sitch? easy. I would position myself dazed to be THE OPPOSITE of OM. I would walk around all day with a smile...pepper your sentences when you see WW stressing out with sayings like "no worries baby" (learned that one in jamaica). Show happiness and contentement. Show ww a man who is very very happy in his own skin and with the real life stuff. Let her go and be with om if she should want to...in fact, I am `100 percent with lexxy that ww needs to see you going..her literally out the door before she will reconsider.

Let the true colors show in being the opposite of om! If they're stressing out about the divorce, then YOU do the opposite! Walk around wtih a big honking smile on your face and a peaceable nature. she may be scrambling to get friend's house ready for the move in, you don't worry..you just get your house ready for the holidays.

and above all! AGREE seemingly with your ww! I learned this technique a few years back...Agree with the ws, then pepper in calmly a kernel of truth, and then agree with them at the end. I still talk to darth this way and he responds favorably when I do it.

Example:
ww: You deserve a better woman than I. IN a few years after our D, you will be with somebody who truly loves you..
dazed: Yes, YOU are right! I do deserve a wife who loves me. I think it could be you. who knows? Let's just see. I am happy with me and it is what it is. Just show me in the meantime how happy you are."

that is how I'd speak to my xh. It would freak them out and totally diffuse the waywards...how can they possibly argue with you if you present their own words to them, albeit with a tiny kernel of truth embedded in it and end on a foggy note (show me in the meantime how happy you are).

OM will LB...but he's gotta be given the opportunity to crash and burn.

I'd let her go with him actually. IF she tries to go, let her. I'd let her stay there a few days and then drop a bomb. Let your attorney call their attorney and say this :"I think we need to discuss options here. I have recently uncovered some issues that let's just say, will have an incredible impact on this divorce. Make sure you're working in the best interest of your client by having a meeting by month's end." You stall for time, set up a legal meeting for a few weeks ahead, and let the sparks fly with the OP and ww!

Do not engage the enemy! If in front of ww, pretend that the OM does not exist. Literally. Make him such a non-issue...now WW will see the contrast...OM brooding at home, scheming against you, saying all bad things about you, and here is dazed...not being affected by this man at all!

You gotta give OM chance to blow it big time...

My Ic told me about 2 years ago... sessions were immediately after divorce and during dark days when xh remarried immediately after...I could not grasp it!

My IC (who loves to read about mb stuff and was herself a BS turned IC and devotes time to helping those bs either save marriages or save themselves, as she would put it)said that it would take about a month after their shack up officially before the love busting would begin! that as soon as they think they have the ws, the lovebusting will begin...why? the contest is over. They think they won! suddenly the struggle in competing with bs is over. there is nothing left to prove...and that is when true colors begin showing almost immediately!

she said to be very very dark. and she also warned me that when I was very very dark, he would attempt to seek me out (he did...tried to call and talk about ds, more attempts, cried in his office when he confessed to me (I was there to pick up my son)that he had to marry ow in tears. I had little reactions to it. I stayed out.

I now know after ow/w admitted this, that they have separated on numerous occasions...and if it were not for baby, they would not be together.

Wow! lightbulb moment..

Your WW and OM are not married. They do not have a baby...there is NO GLUE TO HOLD THIS PAIR TOGETHER. Learn how they will break up by simply letting them be together...sounds crazy, but I truly believe dazed, that if you do go dark after this incredible plan A ride you've done...that she will be begging to come back home.

I'd make myself as peaceable and content and happy as possible to her on the outside. Have a home full of love and warmth, begin decorating for the holidays. Keep up the mantra of "I am in the marriage business, YOUR lawyer is in the divorce business" talk.

And then maybe this week or next week, get some dirt on OM..have the attorney give OM and WW a call...call both..have ww's attorney call both OM and wW about this..you can do it...and lawyer will give the ambiguous message to them. go dark after it. Let them stew in it together...and you calmly tell your ww in plan b letter that you had to go dark b/c of protecting your love for her. that it pains you too much to "see your precious wW being so controlled"...never say it is OM's fault...just allude to it. Plan b letter is given that day...

and the two waywards will have to deal with during the stressful holidays(should cause incredible stress b/w them and more love busting), what exactly your attorney meant? does attorney know something about om that is super damaging? let them implode and love bust on each other by virtue of letting the physics involved in their relationship play out...

physics and dynamics is:1)they are in an affair 2)affairs are still not accepted well by society today 3)it will affect ww as a mother 4)it will affect ww econimically if she is found to be party mainly at fault 5)because of possibility of divorce and court looming over their heads, they will have to sneak around 5)sneaking around puts stress and pressure on affair 6)om makes less at new job..even with his whopping 11k..(laughable btw)so they're not doing great financially.

this will be ww reality: No kids..more lies about affair and hiding it...not gaining true acceptance from family and society, negative economic factors..and fear of their whole shenanigans being exposed in court for whole world to see...and a controlling OM who basically does NOT trust YOUR WW because "she might cheat on OM".

You've got the deck of cards stacked far waaaay in your favor...she will come begging to move home by christmas I bet ya!

the mere change of my xh being with immediatly Ow W in a relationship where he felt trapped was enough. we all know she is not a rocket scientist..no education and not that bright (ow). what could they talk about? Nothing. He used to love fact I helped him with his business and a few years back I was instrumental in his business -we were wildly successful. After being married to OW/w only a few weeks, my xh showed up at the practice I used to work at..all dressed up in suit and tie. Asked front desk if he could speak with MRS. Peach Vader...the receptionist did not know my married last name as I go by Ms. Peach Pit-Vader. Receptionist said "we don't have a MRS> Vader here...but we do have a woman named Peach who runs our such and such lab and exams." I come out front. One of the lpn's at the office said "wow is this some guy you've been keeping on the side, he's cute" at that moment I knew it was my xh.

I went outside. he in front of everybody there asked me to go back to work for him. said I'd make six figures and that I just needed "to do things like I used to do at work"...of course the four girls watching this display gave me their words...and I asked IC about it in next session...he was trying in only way he could to get me to return. bribe me, whatever it took...that he missed any bit of our previous life..and that to make it , his life right again, he had to have me back in it.

but sadly because I then knew he'd been remarried about 2 weeks, and that he was going to be a dad, I allowed my values to stand in the way. I gently refused him. said "I do not think your W would approve of me working side by side with you, long hours, and doing what we used to do. I wished you asked me this six months ago darth."

You have NONE of the monkeywrenches I had in my could have been recovery. NONE Of them.

You have a sitch ripe and ready to overturn! You have got all the tools to make their affair die a natural death...but faster...

don't love bust, show her no stress lifestyle, walk around happy and contented, get home ready for holidays, show love and happiness, and then let her see the door and fly if she so desires...

***dobson in love must be tough says that the ws must see the cage door wide open...that you do not cling to ww and make them stay in the cage...let them fly away, fully aware and knowing that it is the cage door closing that will lure them home.

what did I do? My Ic warned me that in the end, despite my xh being a new dad, or his new marriage, that I could have turned the tides immediately and it was my choice. She knew xh was on fence. I chose to stick with my principles...but she was right!

during our separation towards the end, when there was NO more fighting (he knew what we'd signed), NO arguing about ow (I quit doing it), I began agreeing with him and doing the verbal exercise above, and actually showed wh the door, he began changing. If the dynamics on his side had been different, we might could have now a different story to write. but I am a girl who does honor legal status of a marriage..even if it is based on lies and cheating...I honor the role of a parent in the life of their child...and did not want that baby to have even more trauma in her life..so I stayed out.

in the end, these tips I feel are powerful in making the affairees implode upon themselves...mental ju jitsu (IC called it) and actually is healthy for you as the bs as well..
1)be happy, and content, peaceable.
2)do not speak of OP. Pretend that OP is invisible. Once my xh actually asked me "why don't you just say the stuff you think about OW (after the instant remarriage..he baited me on a voice mail as i was in little to nc with him..) I said in a one lined vmail reply to him "I am not angry at anybody and it's sad that this marriage of yours will not last." I began pretending that OW was literally invisible.
3)when I had to have contact with xwh, I would only speak positively and openly agreeing to his words no matter how stupid they were, then slip in a kernel of truth, and then switch subject by saying something else. HE would not argue. He would placidly agree with me. I did that nonstop for about 3 mos...and then when I went really dark, he showed up at office..trying to PAY me to have contact with me ok? even my IC had never heard of that one...paying to have your xW with you?
4)have attorneys give the phone call to om and ww attorney. Have it ambiguous. they are to not know what you're offering, but make it look like you're giving them a chance to surrendur...white flag time. You could even get your attorney to say "this was something dazed did not want to have me do"..your attorney is your employee...he is paid to look like the bad guy if you want him to be.
5)switch light off...go very dark..immediately after the legal phone call. Leave plan b letter. Make sure it is written in very very lovingly that you are doing this so you keep what love is there still alive in your heart for her! that this pain is something you choose to not live with..and that if she chooses to return to her family and leave her AFFAIR, she can choose that without any anger, hard feelings, or resentment from you. that you've found new peace, you're a new creation. that she has only to lose by staying away, yet all to gain from coming home...and then you let the OM love bust away!

You're doing a great job. You ww does know you love her. she sure does. I feel she knows it for sure 100 percent. she is not getting off the fence yet. you see some signs, but some signs can not stop a divorce. You must let the OM blow it himself...give him leeway to do it ok?

I did not have the sitch you had. I had an ow who plotted the imho, meanest plan to destroy a marriage and ruin the lives of not one, but three kids in the process as a result. Ow knew my moral stance...and she used that to her advantage (I respect marriage and children and families)..she knew she would not have any trouble coming from my end.

so that's why I am here...showing you what works...what did work (even when it was past point of no return from MY end, not xh's end) hoping and praying your family never goes thru what mine did.

You have all the tools...you just gotta use them.

flip your mentality on this issue...the OM is not winning, you are big time.

LEXXXY- Thank you!
A couple Questions:
1) Did your husbands Plan A stick with you when he went to a Plan B type of approach?
2) When you felt the doors closing and the pressure of OM having to carry the load. Did you then choose to go back to your marriage or did you have to give your relationship with OM a chance to work?
3) Did it take your relationship with OM to fail FIRST, before you were ready to work on the marriage?
4) Are you a person that struggles with stress and pressure yourself?
5) Did you set on the "fence" or struggle long with making the choice to leave your husband and give the OM a chance.
I know you say, it's OM's game to lose.

Finding a way to pressure fantasy island is the key. I AGREE.. I CAN NOT be the one to stir the pot. She does defend him.

HOW TO:
Pressure fantasy island and provide motivation to work on our marriage;

PLAN A:
How long will it keep her on the fence. To me I see when she is exposed to OM's toxic waste she changes. Is a completely different person. In complete divorce mode. Then when she comes home. Gets some time to de-tox. BOOM, she is right back up on that fence. It appears the longer I can keep her on the fence, the more pressure OM is applying on WW. OM's pressure and control will have to equal (LB) Right?
When OM Lover busts she comes back to me. Last weeks end he must have really LBed.

PLAN B...
Forces OM to deal with everything. Also, under terrific pressure and in the worst possible conditions. NO access to ME, and possibly daughter.
You know my concerns
1) Have I done enough Plan A yet?
2) Will she be able to escape from OM no matter how bad the relationship gets.
3) Of course I am worried that it won't fail.. I believe it would, but come on. What BS would not worry.

Peach-WOW you really got into it today. Thank You!
I will need some time to digest all this before I come back and post again.
I may come back and post some specific details about the past week end from my journal.
It may help you all see more depth into WW.

I just want a different ending for as many families here as possible. Not every marriage will end as mine did...

It's funny, but over the last 3 years, even when working, my Creator has placed directly in my path people dealing with this very issue...patient 2 weeks ago with thyroid cancer who was worried with only what would happen if she was in hospital for long time? her precious dd was at grips with dealing of her H's infidelity...deep in fog...and trying to keep her head on straight for the 2 little ones...grandma was the one carrying the load for her D. I wrote down books for grandma to buy her daughter, name of my IC for daughter, and told her about Mb site.

I will help...nothing to do but laundry, go shopping a bit today inbetween shivering like mad, packing tonight, and maybe seeing my bf if I can feel a bit better. Tomorrow I will go back to work, have car trunk packed, get dogs to vet, pick up son from darth..and then make the 5 hr drive to my family.

The wife just spent the past hour with a new counselor. As she put it, "To see why I am crazy in my head".
For some reason I have had a weird feeling in my stomach in the last 30 minutes. Not sure why..

I am off to see what another night has in store...

Just wanted to let you know that we are thinking about you and praying for you.

I hope that the long Holiday weekend goes well for you.

Thank you very much.
I wish I could tell you that things are looking good but there not.

I just learn that WW has made plan to take D to eat Thanksgiving lunch with my Ex-SIL. Of course I am not invited.
She wants to then drop off D with me afterwards so I can take D to either her families late dinner or mine that we were all three invited to.
This most likely would get me and D away from the house and leave WW all to herself to go be with OM to Thanksgiving.

Just learned minutes ago that WW approved D to spend the night at Ex-SIL's with her OM's 16 year old daughter. Just so happens that Ex-SIL's 16 year old son will also be there that happens to have crush on my 12 year old daughter.

I just called up WW and asked if she new of these plans and if she new the 16 YO boy was also going to be there.
WW got real pissy with me and said, well you call your daughter and tell her she can't go now.
I said, WW I just wanted your opinion on this... She said, well you let her stay there over Holloween so what is the big deal. I said, well there was six adults in the house tha night plus myself until 2AM...
She said, FINE THEN YOU TELL HER NO... I have to go...

Keep in mind the trend for the last two weeks in now when daughter is NOT in the house, neither is WW.

I have the feel that by telling daughter she must stay home now, I am probably ruining WW's night out as well.

I figure I will let her take Daughter to eat with out me. Not sure what to do with daughter when she dumps her off. My family is having a late lunch and so is my WW's family.. I have once again donated the Turkey for my WW's family Thanksgiving. Now a Ten year tradition. Of course they want me and daughter to come over. WW has already said, she is NOT going to see her family.

I thought if I go to her family's she will just think that we are all setting around talking about her and ganging up on her. So, I don't know what to do.

You know last year we held Thanksgiving in our home for both of our families. It went over great. Everyone said, last year agreed that Thanksgiving would be held at our home from now on. Now this year...Another example of what an affair does to a family...

Dazed,

Talk to DD about the overnight. Your DD seems to have a good head on her shoulders. Explain your concerns to her. Listen to what she says. She may decide that it's "not an ideal environment" and not to go. If she still wants to go be open to it. Let her know that you trust her to make a good decision (believe me I know how hard that is sometimes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).

Does DD have a way to communicate with you if she needs to? Have you considered getting her a cell / trac phone so she can contact you if she needs to? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Remember if you truly feel it is unsafe you DO have veto power over this overnighter.

My concern is that WW is trying to "backdoor" OM into DD's life by using ex-SIL's "Holiday Event".

I think that you should stop by both families celebrations.
You don't need to eat, just sit down and visit with them. The normalcy of this setting will do you both good. I think you will find a lot of love and support at both locations. Soak it up. After all both of you have been through the past few months you deserve it.

Try to enjoy what the weekend has to offer. Don't dwell on what WW is up to. You already know. WW is the one whom is missing out on the family ties this weekend.

Stay strong!

Walking-
Going to both family's is probably the best thing. Don't know why I had not thought of that. My head must be buried today.

Let me clarify my last post about daughters overnight.
Yes, I will give my cell phone to have tonight.

Ex-SIL is also a WW herself.
She is now shacking up with her OM.... Ex-SIL's OM has two kids from the marriage he left for Ex-SIL...
It is Ex-SIL's OM's daughter16 that my daughter is wanting to go hang out with tonight. (See Ex-SIL's OM's daughter does not like her dad's OW the Ex-SIL. Ex-SIL's son does not like his mothers OM. The kids don't like each other very well. There common interest is the hate they have for each others parent....Then through in two of kids are 16. The boy had a crush on my 12 YO daughter.
Before WW became WW she was addimate about how wrong and sick it was for a 16YO boy to chase around a little girl. She forbid any contact between them. No MSN chat, phone calls, visits, letters or anything.
My dumb Ex-SIL could not see why we were so over protective of our daughter ETC...
NOW my WW incourages daughter to go over there by herself and go hang out at the mall with only a 16YO girl. Then go back to sleep in that toxic enviroment... It really angers me..

I just talked to daughter on the phone. Apparently WW approved this several days ago. Also, gave them permission for the 16YO to drive my daughter to the mall and hang out and go to a movie by themselves.
I think WW is trying to get herself back into good standing with my daughter my giving her anything now matter how over the top. GET THIS... Daughter tells me that WW said, she would take the 50 cent movie, "Get rich or die trying".
I told daughter not no, but _ELL NO.
This is coming from a mother that would not let our daughter go to PG13 movies with out one of us. Also, placed a PG13 restriction on our movie rental account for daughter....
Also, this all undermines me making me look like the bad guy.

I will have set down with daughter and tell her that she must make an effort to communicate her plans to me as well as her WW mom.

Daughter told me she was sorry for not telling me. Said, she told mom and figured she would talk to me about it like usual. I told her I was not angry with her and we would discuss details to her evening when I get home from work.

Ok Dazed,


This is a no brainer. You document what your W has approved, and then you tell your 12 year old she is NOT going. Mr. If you let this thing continue you deserve, that is right I SAID DESERVE to lose your daughter. Get off dead center and be that girls parent. She clearly does not have one in your W.

Now way a 16 year old should be driving a 12 year old to the mall or hanging with a 16 year old boy, unsupervised.

This is soooo simple, I cannot believe you are wasting bits on discussing this. Your W, when she had a brain, would not approved of this, and NO father should either.

Grow up, quit catering to the alien pretending to be your W, and be the father your Daughter needs right NOW.

God Bless,

JL