Let me echo Brit's Brat here. It's highly unlikely that it was 'officially' filed yesterday. If your lawyer is ready to pull the trigger, GET IT DONE NOW..... In the courts, it is far greater to be on the offense from the get go. I'm sure she realizes and has been informed by her atty that custody is going to cost her, by the same token, they've also probably told her what having the daughter is worth to her financially. Your wife cannot be trusted. I'm willing to bet $.57 she filed for custody. I've been to civil court in Ottawa County, Kansas and seen many cases go through Saline County and firmly believe you need to get on offense.

If it is too late for that, you need to hit her with both barrells. The court is going to mandate that y'all go to mediation. Do your research and pick a good mediator. Further, if she fights you, y'all might have to get a custody evaluation done, most courts around here will not listen to the child until the age of 13. Something crucial for you to do is file or counter-file enough stuff that she wants to negotiate.

Again, if she did file and did seek custody, then y'all will have a temporary orders hearing coming up. You need to win that, therefore, you are going to have to pull out the big guns from the beginning....

Dazed,
I think that overall you did a pretty good job with your part of the conversation. You might have considered driving home to her that this entire decision was HERS...she made comments like "I know what I'm doing is wrong", and similar statements...to which the answer is simple..."Then WHY are you doing them???"

She knows she's going to regret these choices...ask her "Then WHY are choosing to do this if you KNOW it's not going to work out???"

Drive home to her that she DOES have choices in this. You're not manipulating her here...if you were, she'd not be making foolish, self-destructive, family-destructive choices...now would she?

Overall good job. I agree with the advice to make your own move ASAP to protect your daughter. And again, let your wife take her own personal items, but nothing else. If she wants to start over, that's EXACTLY what she should do. My wife faced the same choices...she knew full well that I would retain custody of the kids and that based on that I was going to keep all of the stuff we need to run the house. I don't know that it was a factor for her...I don't think my wife ever really got to where she'd truly faced what it was going to be like back on her own again.

Hang in there friend...prayers are with you.

Please listen to Brit and Lost.

WW is lost for now. DD isn't -- your primary goal is to protect her.

More tears, guilt, sadness, blame, blah blah blah blah blah.
NOTHING IS CHANGING. She's still going to do this.

She HAS to at this point. She feels she's gone too far, done too much and her happiness is not in diving back into the marriage and all that there is to deal with there. Right now your relationship is WAY out of balance. You're all good and she is all bad.

Think about it -- if you were in HUGE trouble at work, had done some really awful things, your reputation was shot....wouldn't it be tempting to just get a new job?

She thinks she's going to find "happiness" with OM. They are on the same level. Or maybe she thinks she's a few points up on him. It makes her feel good about herself.
Thats what she is craving. Something that makes her feel good about herself. Right now, you and DD make her feel bad about herself, even though you don't try to.

Even though you've offered your forgiveness -- she can't see a happy ending with you until she forgives herself. And thats gonna take a while Dazed. She is going to have to leave...learn that OM isn't going to make her feel better...the things she's running from (her guilt, etc.) will follow her into the new relationship....OM can't help her because he doesn't understand all these things about her that you do now because of MB...

She needs to get to a place where she can work on herself. Heal and forgive....then she will want to make amends to you and DD. Thats where you want her -- repentant. Thats where real recovery comes from.

Lexxxy, you are incredibly insightful. My WW said some of the same things about me being the "good guy" and her being bad. Even the part about the WW not being able to "come back" after what has happened.

Please keep posting since your insight and knowledge is priceless. Thanks so much and good luck to you Dazed.

Listen to Lexxxy...and to those with the advice on the attorney. While a lot of WSs SAY they filed, many times they didnt. But you cant take that chance! So, get in Plan B mode...have your PBL ready to fire at any moment.


While she is definitely in the fog...this is the next step, Dazed. She is showing that she has realized your changes...and has begun looking at the mess she helped create. I am by no means saying she is out of the fog or even close. I am saying that she is LOOKING at things. And with that, she will have to face some harsh realities. This is all good!

So, even though she filed (supposedly), the fact she is saying these things bodes well for your marriage longterm. It means that if in the end, she makes the right choices...then she will come back repentent (as Lexxxy said).

So, your plan is working. While her filing is a setback, it is only a small blip, as most of things have shown a positive progression. Positive in that she has followed the WS handbook pretty closely. Which means she has avery good chance of eventually coming out of the fog.

So, stay consistent. Protect your daughter. And get Plan B ready today! And prepare for the next phase. Life is going to go to fulltime "suckville" for her very shortly. She is making all of the choices that are going to cause her a very big hurtful landing at the bottom. It is which she needs.

In His arms.

UPDATE: I went back and edited my last update;;; Filled in more details..Gotta run...

Thanks for all your help Everyone...

I read the update. I am telling you Dazed, she will crack. She will. She is so close. It still may take Plan B and her leaving. It may. But everything you all did and said tells me she sees it now.

She just has to find a way out of the fog now (which is no easy task). Keep steady.

In His arms.

And her asking you to drive her to work is giving you hope after she has told you she has filed for divorce?

Sorry. So many of us have been telling you to file. Sure she is hanging on the fence by her fingertips. But she seems capable of doing that for so long! File today!

Based on what she says about D are you sure she is sincere in not demanding custody? Has her behavior so far been totally honest? Of what she told you what can be verified? Basically only the fact she filed. All other can be a plot to increase her chances for custody. Just like her suggestion you stop divorce proceedings a couple of weeks ago. At that time many of us suggested it was a ploy to create a better situation for her to get custody.

Did her behavior at Thanksgiving indicate that Christmas will be better?

So you have hopes of still recovering despite her having filed. OK. I can accept that and will not wreck your hope. But using the same logic could you not recover if you file also?

Her behavior indicates two options: either she is really just breaking or she is doing all she can to weaken your case for custody.

DAC – do you have the moral right to gamble with your daughter?

You can file and still not LB. You can still insist you want the marriage to survive but you have the moral obligation of ensuring DD best interests.

At the moment your WW has nearly everything she wants: the drama she seems to thrive on, access to OM, your total commitment to her without any obligations on her half. Give her what she wants and make her realize that it is not what she wants! Let her go and go to Plan B. I would be willing to place money on the fact she will be trying to break your NC commitment within 6 hours of leaving.

Sorry DAC. If I though sending you e-hugs ((((DAC)))) and “you are doing a great job” would help you I would. I just think that possibly you are getting lost in the darkness your situation generates and are not seeing clearly. Focus DAC and save yourself and your DD. Your wife will follow.

Bigger has some very valid points...

Dazed your WW's wants a happy divorce. Where you will get to the realization that you need to give up. Where you will cooperate with her. Where you will be friends later.

The story she told you about the guy at work? Thats what she's after. For you to cooperate while she get OM out of her system (because she already recognizes that he's not lifetime partner material...) and then she'll come back later and you can pick your marriage back up where she left it. She wants some guarantees that what she's doing won't cause you to lose all the love you have for her. She's hoping she can come back later.

DON'T BE HER SAFETY NET.

dazed...

Listen to Bigger and Lexxy.

One one hand, I think it is right for you to get some warm fuzzy feelings inside because I do think she is inching closer to the edge of the fog. It may be because the OM did some LB'ing or it may be your Plan A or some combination. The story she told does not make me optimistic. You cannot let her think that she can D for an OM test drive. She cannot be lead to believe either by your responses or your lack of response that you will be there for her if and when the OM doesn't pan out like she thinks it MIGHT.

Lexxy is right. You cannot be her safety net. You don't want to be the first alternate.

My gut feeling is this is genuine. She is not playing you for better custody arrangements. I do think she is close but close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades. It definitely is not acceptable in this situation. I wouldn't file right now. With this "new attitude", I would wait and see what happens tonight. See how different she acts after having a complete day away from you. That probably goes against what a lot of people are thinking. But my gut tells me that she is closer and you don't want to push her back in towards someone else who is waiting with open arms. I think she is on her way out soon.

My experience with this is that I would say things while I was in the fog to comfort my W when she was very upset. I said things that someone on the outside looking in would think, "Man, he has changed." BUT, if you are in the fog - you are in the fog. You can't be half in and half out. If she still has contact with the OM, she is in and that is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Did anything come up about the OM last night? Or was it strictly that she missed you?

It sounds like you did a good job of listening. It is great to let silence pull things out of her mouth. Funny, but during my devotional this morning with the kids, our verse was from James 1:19. I thought about you INSTANTLY when I read it. It is "So, then, my beloved brothers, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger." Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Give her a little more silence so that she can tell you exactly how she feels.

Just please, dazed, don't let your guard down. She is still in the fog and she can still hurt you bad. Don't let her. Protect yourself and protect your daughter. You can't protect all three of you right now.

SNT

Ahem....


These are YOUR words from just a short while ago. There is a VERY good reason to file first. DO IT.

I simply cannot believe Steve Harley would advise you to LOSE CUSTODY and ASSETS.

[color:"red"]I'm getting annoyed by all the advice to not file the divorce and delay, delay, delay!
How exactly do all of you see this playing out if Dazed is court-ordered to leave his home and WW is awarded temporary custody and the house and assets?????????
Geez![/color] [color:"red"] In fact it was Steve Harley's advice to you to file legal separation. Since your state has NO LEGAL SEPARATION (which Harley must not have been aware of...) then I'm sure he would have advised you to file the divorce. Your position was SO VALUABLE, and I greatly feel you have jeapordized it. [/color]

Amen. It's time he take action and quit hoping for the lottery.

For god's sake protect yourself and your daughter from a woman formally known as your sane wife!!

She is not the same woman you knew and cannot be trusted. If you want to save things down the road that is great but you need to protect yourself.

She is setting you up and if you keep waiting she will take you to the cleaners. She will take your house, your daughter she will want alimony and she won't give a damn about you.

Maybe you should force her to make a decision. Listen to your lawyer. She can always at a later date become the woman that you use to know.

If none of this is getting thru to you protect your daughter!!!!

Wow. Lexxy - good point. I am so naive when it comes to that. If that is the case, dazed, you have to protect yourself.

I still think in my gut she is close but you cannot play the lottery with this. If she is still considering it, then you need to do it first.

SNT

dazed has been needing to protect himself, his dd, and assets from this woman for some time...he is hearing now only what he thinks he wants to hear.

I pray dazed that today, you realize that your war is not against your w, but against the affair. and the affair must be broken down.

please I hope you're now attempting a smart offensive.

LEXXXY- I was wrong... Kansas does have legal separation.
That WAS Harley's advice...His other advice was... If she files before the end of the holiday's then you just counter file with full custody and restraining orders in place... Same posistion I was a month ago.
He believes that she was mainly in the house for her daughter and probably part of it was being unsure about leaving me.

WW called and asked me to come pick her up for lunch....We ate and made small talk until we got home so she could pick up her car.
Then we talked about us for few minutes...
She sat down on the foot of the stairs... Asked me to join her. She wanted to hold me hand. Looked at me and said, I feel so wrong. Even as I set here I can't feel right about there not being a Mr. & Mrs. Dazed. I just can't believe this all has happened. It was suppose to be me and you forever...
I asked her...WW-please can we be honest. She says, yes. I said, tell me why you are doing this?
She says, look at us... we are going no where. You deserve a good wife to love you not hurt you... I don't deserve you. Look at what I have done... I am so bad...The guilt inside me just kills me to look a you... Just walking into this house make me feel like I can't breath at times. It feels so wrong to not be with you, but how can I now? I miss you so much Dazed... I really do love you... I just can't look at you and not feel so bad and wrong...You are a good man... You have done so much for me and I don't deserve any of it. I so tired now Dazed. This is killing me... I need it to stop. My head is so screwed up.
Dazed, I really don't know what to do about all this in my head. I do miss you... We are so broken... I really do wish you could fix it all for us... It is me that is broken. Dazed, we are not that d word yet... OMG Dazed I can even say it... I never wanted to be an Ex-wife... That makes me feel even worse... She is now bawling again..
She says, I don't know if I could even go through with it right now. I don't know if I can be with out you. It just all seems so wrong.

There was a little more said, not much..
I said, how could we go anywhere with out a starting point and a common goal to work for... We don't have a common goal that we are working for...Other's have been right were me and you are today... They made it because of one thing... Believeing in making it work.. That is it.. I am sure to you it seems much more complicated than that... To me it's not.



It appears she did file. Yesterday... I have no papers as of yet and my lawyer is getting details now.
I think there may be a temporary judgement hearing Monday morning.

Got to run

Dazed --

This is her battle. It is with herself. She has fallen so far from even her own image of herself.

When she is with you -- she feels confusion, guilt, and sadness. She sees the pain she has caused. Not positive happy emotions are they? That is why she wants to leave. Every act of kindness you show her causes her more pain. You're breaking her down, but not in a good way. I think your Plan A is reaching a destructive point. I don't suggest that you become unkind. I just think you need to stay away and detach. Stay consistant with your changes, but no more flowers or love notes.

When she is with OM she can pretend that none of that devastation has happened. She can ignore all the pain she has inflicted on everyone. They live in a happy pretend world. None of the reality has crashed into that world yet.
As soon as she is in that world 100%, she will realize that the real problem in her world is HERSELF not you. She's tried to blame you for her unhappiness. But the real source of her unhappiness is HER.

She's chasing "happiness." She doesn't yet understand that her problems will follow her and escalate.

She will continue to blame you for everything. She's trying desparetly to get you to agree that your relationship is broken. It absolves her of her guilt if you agree. And if you cooperate, there are less lies she has to tell the OM. Maybe you'll even help her fix her relationship with daughter! Very likely she will tell OM tonight that you had lunch together to negotiate your divorce. She thinks that if she can get your sympathy you'll let her go.

She wants to retain her good mommy title, have you pleasantly divorce her, remain her good friend. Thats all she wants from you. And she will manipulate you any way she can to get it.

The fact that you no longer are mentioning her aggravation about having nothing at her apartment and she is not discussing leaving I worry that she may have petitioned for a Temporary Restraining Order whereby she could kick you out of the house...TEMPORARILY.

This I found on-line and based on Kansas law...


I am glad to see there may be a hearing on Monday but if you are served tomorrow and it includes a restraining order provision you must abide by it over the weekend (If you find out early tomorrow you could request an immediate emergency hearing and get it if the judge is available). Another option would be for your attorney (or his clerk) to find the case and see if it includes a petition for temporary restraining order. If so then you may just hide from being served until Monday. You probably have to be served before it takes effect.

Even if she did this I don't think this compromises your custody case at all. In fact the judge would likely see her as acting in bad faith by requesting it especially when you respond to the order with your mountain of evidence.

I don't want to get ahead of the situation. Let's see what happens.

Is your Plan B letter ready?

Mr. Wondering

Just an observation Dazed, my FWW wanted to leave me since I was in so much pain. She knew she was killing me but she figured if she moved out, she wouldn't have to see what she had done to the family and I. They can run, but they can't hide from themselves. Your wife is either the best actress in the world and is derserving of an Emmy or she is one confused and mixed up torn woman.

I think her exited emotions are with the OM but her heart is with you and the family. Extend your hand to her and help her back to your family. You are making great strides with your own emotions and she is reading the new you, who can live without her.

Tell her to come back where she belongs or at least try it for 3 to 4 months without the OM in her life and tell her if it isn't right, you will help her move.

TooSoon

I see you're not responding at all to me anymore dazed...

that's ok.

but here is the real truth.

Your WW has a pattern here...she blames, rages, and then cries...she uses any angle she can to wheedle you into getting her way.

She cries, holds your hand, says she loves you, all the "right" words to cajole you into the good divorce.

and do not be surprised if she tries to toss you out of your own house...that would be something she could easily try...and could be exactly why her little conscience is hurting her so???

It's sad that you're buying this. She has not yet crashed and burned and you're taking the words of a WS? A WS lies ok? that is their business! you are all about marriage saving...they are all about endorphin chasing...and like any addict will lie, cheat or steal to get that high however they can to cover up their pain in life.

She was "performing" at top form today imho...I think she is potentially one with a bright future in hollywood the way this girl can act.

she just wants you NOT to take it to court...she knows the affair will NOT win in court...it will be the actual undoing of the affair fix.

listen to the shards of truth embedded in the words of the wayward..what is the real fear? is it losing their old spouse? nah...they know that if they came running back you'd take her back. It is LOSING THE HIGH..THE AFFAIR HIGH...her fear is losing what lexxy said..

the label as a good mom
her family home
her assets
her belongings
her "having" daughter under same roof to enable the lie.

I have another one for you. WS do not really want to parent that much. They LIKE the lable of being able to have some bit of custody...b/c it covers up their lies of divorce or separation and makes the affair try to turn into some twisted family thing.

Why don't you become an enemy of the affair now? why not? It is NOT being the enemy of your W. IT is being the enemy of the destructive entity that has ruined your family. THE AFFAIREES. If you can break them down, let WW see that she CANNOT HAVE THIS INSANITY...THIS LIE ANYMORE...then some truth will begin to slowly penetrate her fog.

Please get tough. Quit listening to the lies of a very accomplished actress, and decipher the real truth embedded within. She wants you to enable her affair...thru letting it bypass the courts, or lulling you into a false security so she can make legal maneuvers first...as she is most likely doing right now.

protect your DD! she is top priority! Please do this!

I should know. I am doing all I can do to shield my ds from the shrapnel that is flying all over the place from the XWS of mine and his OW/W...entangled in the end of their affair marriage, dealing with their instabilities, etc...trying to keep my ds as far away from their damage path as possible. Did you read my post? did you see how damaging it is to have somebody enable an affairee? The OW/W is enabling my xh still...he has crashed, but she's trying to pad the fall...sad...so sad.

Your family still has a chance. Tough love is her best and only savior right now. File for D and for full custody and get the RO to have ww removed. Hand her a TOUGH BUT LOVING PLAN B LETTER SO SHE CAN SEE THE PATH HOME WHEN THE FOG BREAKS...

WHERE IS BOB PURE? WE NEED BOB PURE! HELP BOB! TOUGH LOVE NEEDED HERE!