dazed...I thought that whole first one who files gets to stay in the house and custody or whatever...sounded very strange. It just didn't make sense at all. Glad it's not like that.

Did she file?

In the new "legal" light, I would still Plan A but maintain your inflexible, no bending stance. No enablement on your part towards her. No being the door mat. No compromising on your D, the A, or her contact with the OM. But you still have to show her the door is still open at least until after the holidays. My gut still says things are not as rosy with the OM as they seemed. She doesn't want to hurt him but she doesn't want to lose her family. She also doesn't want to lose that endorphin or whatever "high" she can get. It's an addiction.

Keep letting her talk. It sounds like she is doing a good job of convincing herself that her A is wrong and the cause of her unhappiness.

SNT

Lexxy, are you an eye doctor, cause you have hella good vision. Keep your ears on Dazed. Certain groups of people have strikingly similar and easy to read characteristics in situations. I've stood right where you are standing now. I've heard it all and been manipulated for that "friendly" divorce. A lot of wise people jabbering with you here, please listen.

What's the atty say? If they've filed, your atty should have a copy by now. If court is Monday and she's filed the crazy stuff I'm betting she did, then you have to be ready to attack on Monday, thus ending all Plan 'A'. Got that Plan 'B' letter ready? Heck, you may want to ask her to leave and give her the letter early..... Of course, run the letter by the wise ones here 1st....

How about a little weekend trip? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just you and DD? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You had been mentioning it to WW for awhile. Just do it without WW.

Leave the stress of what is going on in the house behind you for the weekend.

You'll get some good sit down talk time with DD. You'll be able to talk to DD about what is likely to be happening soon.

I think you've got a good game plan going. Stick to it.

If you do that, I suggest you discuss with an attorney first so you can't be accused of kidnapping. Or try to get wife's approval, or at least send her an email so that you can prove she was aware of it and did not object.

LEXXXY- Your "Her Battle" comments I believe are very accurate. I do believe more so than others here that she is a woman that is trapt... Yes, Trapt... She is miserable trying to make everyone happy now... For her there is just no way out now with out casualties. I believe she does still love me...How can she come home now? Her guilt of what she has done is consuming her... Quote from WW,"Dazed when you asked me the question Monday night.."When are we going to be even with hurting each other?" Dazed, we are way past even... Look at what I have done... It is so much more than what you did wrong..."

As for the fantasy island hi coming from OM...
He only lives three minutes from my home... You tell me how WW can drive from his apartment and in three minutes be bawling and talking about suicide if she was still getting hi with OM...
I believe that WW thinks the fun and happiness will return with her and OM once she gets away from Dazed... Of course we all know that will not happen... We have a child together... She will never be able to pretend I don't exist.

Here is another thought... She now knows that Dazed is what she wanted... This has added to her guilt from my end... Like LEXXXY has said, plus I believe she does love me... See's leaving me now as a mistake... Realizes she made mistakes too... How can she come home now after what she has done... GETTING PAST HER GUILT IS HUGE... She does not see a path to get past it... So what do you do...Just like the story when things go really bad for you at work... You go find a new job... How many WANT to stay and restore there image?
Let's talk about her guilt that is being feed from OM... No one has thought about that... She has promised this guy everything, I would bet... They made a plan to be together.. He now expects her to follow through with it. He left his wife and got divorced for her. Quit his job and took a pay cut for her... Her guilt has to come from his pressure on her and me being (love unconditionally) husband and father even in the darkest of times.

I am sure she believes that she must file to get things moving... You know OM had to very upset when she pulled the petetion last time... The only way she could get out of that was to tell him she is only there for daughter. I believe she did just that. Maybe she was mainly... However, the last month let me really progress with my Plan A.
You can bet she has thought about every imaginable escape route... If you were under this amount of pressure wouldn't you? She is hurting because she knows she is trapt between right and wrong, guilt from OM and from her because of NEW me. This all in her persuit of happiness...

She came right home again last night from work... She wanted to talk...NO DIVORCE DETAILS...
She said, Dazed...I really like the feeling I get from you comforting me... I almost forgot how good it felt.
She a lot of key stuff... Asked me how can we fix this after I let them dam paper be filed. There was more that i can't summarize at the moment.


Said, she found a new girl friend that she is now talking to about us. Says, this woman is a Christian that believes very strongly in god.. Sings in the church and has been telling WW about God. WW says, the woman is married and has had some problems in her own marriage that they have worked out. She has refered WW to go check out several books from the library that can help her understand marriage problems. This woman is suppose to take WW out of town this week end so she can help WW search for answers. WW tells me that I can talk to her on the phone tonight to prove she is telling the truth.

Changing gears... I have yet to recieve any papers. Tomorrow morning I have an appointment with my lawyer.
Steve Harley called me back but I missed him... Still trying to get him on the phone to review were we stand RIGHT NOW...
I am thinking about how to approach the custody issue... Stratigizing if you will..

Peach- I am listening to you... Thank You...

more later... (Borrowed that closure from Lexxy)

ps. Dazed. Her being overly emotional after filing, is also a totally normal behavior. That was basically the only time my X showed emotion through the divorce. I'm sure that somewhere in her mind she realizes that she has hurt you and understands that this will inflict further pain. She probably sees it in some sick way of conforting you through her torture of you.

When you see what she filed tomorrow, don't be suprised. Likely, she will have filed for everything. ANy lawyer worth his weight would have her do so. I think real soon, like right now, is time for a shift of focus into protection mode. You are obviously very focused on her every breath, hoping for hope. Do not let that in any way affect the court stuff. Court is a whole different animal, you are going to have to hit her with everything you got. I pray that you've been 100% open and honest with your atty. Sadly, in court you are more than likely going to have to prove her unstable by stating all the truths. As soon as all this starts seeping out your relationship is obviously going to change....

That is the best news I have heard dazed. I mean the emotional outpouring was nice but I think it is great that she MAY be confiding in someone who has a better attitude towards what is going on. When I was in my hole, I prayed that I would find someone to talk to and that is what lead me here. My previous marital advice was coming from the wrong people. I have prayed that your WW would get marital advice from someone other than the OM or others who are saying what she wants to hear. I will keep praying that this person is the one who can push her out of the fog. Do you know this person? If so and you trust her, I would encourage her to spend as much time with her as you can.

Have you made any plans for the weekend? Now may be a good time to do that. Take a day trip somewhere (the three of you). Go Christmas shopping. Go see a movie somewhere out of town. Take advantage of this weekend buddy. Just go with the D if she says no. I don't think she will.

SNT

Please be warned dazed...the day before my xh went bezerk the last time, last time I was ever in same house with him, he read all the MB stuff I gave him. He acted as if he was on the fence, and leaning to the side of marriage building. He sat leaning on that fence...and later that evening fell off on the totally wrong side.

He had Christians telling him to come home to his family. He had lots of people telling him to do that.

What a WS SAYS and what a WS DOES are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS BTW.

Incidentally my friend, you have a pattern here. Wanna know what it is? You post something borderline horrific about your WW. It scares the heck outta us here, especially those of us who have gone thru this before and are out other side, and then suddenly the next post is about WW having some softening up...some supposed perceived change.

I have to bring this up.

It is as if you aren't really ever going into plan B...or into making WW accountable for her actions as you're afraid she will leave. It's like you're ok with 10 percent of the WW being home and a W. But the other 90 percent is ok being a WW and with another man.

I am saying it like it is friend.

I love and care for ya...pray for your family.

Btw...LostHusband is a great and wise fella. He reinvented himself after his D, his xw's total loss and is a MB hero, marrying this summer a beautiful and loving and very MB woman from this site! How about poetic justice there? And lexxy? Another hero who did recover from infidelity and save her marriage.

You have many of us here who are trying our best to help you navigate these muddy waters. But you are marching on...and listening some..but in the end doing what you think you feel you should do..which is ok ...but I am not so sure is the right thing now.

She needs accountability. That is what separates a WS from a healthy marriage partner btw.

Your Ww is saying whatever she can say to buy time...to buy time in house. If OM is so in love with her, then he is unusually quiet...that is exactly why I believe he is "in on" the secret...he knows something is up and she is out of house...or else you are.

Again, protection mode is wisest now. A loving and sweet plan B letter showing what you will tolerate and a map home and how to do so is urgently needed here. She needs to feel the door hitting her on the backside ok?

HI DAZED... Step aside for a minute... I don't want you to get hit with the fallout that will be SURELY coming...

To all...
I have to ask you something.....WHY is it you are on the "MARRIAGE BUILDERS" site run by DR. HARLEY and don't believe or UNDERSTAND the principals here??


I mean really.... Dazed talked to Steve H. LESS THAN A WEEK AGO... and he advised Dazed to:

"1) Continue Plan A until Christmas if possible. Try to give daughter Christmas. "

And instead of helping him stay STRONG and encouraging him to continue his Plan "A" or... giving him advice on HOW to plan "A" and using all your combined intelligence (which I respect BTW) to find some CREATIVE ways for him to Plan "A"

He PAID a lot of money to hear this advice from STEVE HARLEY.....LIKE SNT, walkingthefield , and a few others are doing... ENCOURAGE him.. make him STRONG don't tell him to do the OPPOSITE of what the REAL EXPERTS are telling him... make him STRONG!!


ALL HE HEARS IS.....

"Well Dazed...it's been TEN MINUTES since STEVE H. told you to continue Plan "A"....

I GUESS IT'S TIME FOR PLAN "B" soldier..... you put up a GOOD fight for the last TEN MINUTES..... PLAN "B' now is the ONLY WAY!!!!
Your WW needs to be emotionally WHIPPED AND BEATEN DOWN TO ROCK BOTTOM so she can "wake up" and YOU are the ONLY one that can beat her into the ground...
PROTECT....PROTECT....FILE!! HURRY.....BEAT HER TO THE PUNCH!!!!

Not do unto others as you'd have them do unto you....
BUT..... Do unto others as they would do unto to you BUT DO IT FIRST!!

"Do you have your Plan "B" letter ready???
"Maybe you should "lovingly" throw her out so you can work on your Plan "B" letter???

GEEZE GUYS....
DO ANY OF YOU KNOW WHAT PLAN "B" is FOR???

Here is a QUOTE from the Site that you belong to...:
HARLEY......

"While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

So... what kind of advice does Dazed get?

LOVINGLY PACK HER BAGS AND FILE FOR DIVORCE?? GO DARK...

IS THIS THE LOVING IMPRESSION HARLEY SPEAKS OF ABOVE??

I Doubt that the Harleys would EVER EVER EVER EVER.... counsel anyone to tell a spouse to leave.... all the plan "B" stuff is for a spouse that is NOT HOME!!! How can you plan "B" when they are HOME... HIDE IN THE BATHROOM????

Let's use our heads here... Dazed's W is HOME.....the ONLY way he can go into a Plan "B" is if he THROWS HER OUT OF HER HOME..... so...if Harley himself says:

"So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

THEN HOW THE HECK CAN DAZED "LOVINGLY" THROW HER OUT (someone once told him to have her stuff on the pourch!!! LOL)

and still give her the LAST impression Harley speaks of above... CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME????



Lexxy... I know your H made you mad with Plan "A"... BUT... if he had done what everyone here tells dazed to do.... WOULD you be where you are today??? Wasn't it the PLAN "A" that finally sunk in and made you trust the Marriage again?? At least partly....??



DAZED has been in "A" for a VERY short period of time... AND.... in the beginning he LB'ed all over the place..

NOW HE'S SEEING SOME PROGRESS....LET'S HELP HIM BE STRONG FOR WHEN THE WAFFLE COMES!!! NOT CALL IT A LIE!!

NO JP... not :

"She was "performing" at top form today imho...I think she is potentially one with a bright future in hollywood the way this girl can act."

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?? WERE YOU THERE???? 90% of communication is NON VERBAL!!! Can you say for SURE that his WW is JUST LIKE YOUR XH?? Isn't it POSSIBLE that she IS giving DAZED the TRUTH SOMETIMES???

WHY JUMP IN AND DESTROY ANY HOPE THE GUY HAS THAT HIS W STILL LOVES HIM....and when she reacts POSITIVELY even THEN..... DUMP ALL OVER IT AND TELL HIM THAT YOU KNOW SHE'S LYING... you don't.....I don't...... Harley doesn't.... BUT HARLEY SAID PLAN "A" UNTIL CHRISTMAS....!! SO....let's support THAT....



And as for all these different plans..... A LITTLE "TOUGH LOVE" mixed in with "MODIFIED" Marriage Builders principals....and add a dash of DR PHIL... is DUMB....plain.....DUMB...

As dumb as trying 3 different diets at the same time....WILL NOT WORK.... stick to a diet and FOLLOW THROUGH.... not mix and match or more like it...

IF YOU DON'T LOSE 50 LBS THE FIRST DAY... GO TO DIET "B"...

Diets take time... you lose OUNCES...at a time ....

Just like PLAN "A".... BABY STEPS..

And if you folks can't see progress.... well.. evidently Harley DOES..... so...... he told DAZED to STICK TO THE DIET THAT IS WORKING....SLOWLY............

We've been here before.... this is NOT my Wisdom... it is the wisdom of DR. HARLEY... the site that you are posting at...

CAN WE SUPPORT THE DIRECT ADVICE OF DR. HARLEY......TO..... DAZED..... FOR.... THIS .....PARTICULAR......CASE????

PAAAALEEESE?????????

Dazed,

Let me clarify my position. I am with PleaseHelp on this one. I was thinking the same thing about sticking with Dr. Harley's advice.

As far as Plan B, I only mentioned getting your letter ready as a preparation thing. I was anticipating a change in circumstances wherein Dr. Harley would tell you to go to Plan B. If your wife's divorce petition includes a temp retraining order trying to get you out of the house then you will go into court Monday, fight it, beat it and she may just walk out Monday night to her apartment.

Though I do not anticipate your wife filing the restraing order (though I won't put it past her attorney), her doing this would really indicate to me that she is either completely delusional or in fact "acting" this whole thing out like the others believe. I truly believe she is leaning towards your Plan A and trapped by guilt. I do not think she is trying to manipulate the situation. I believe she has serious trepedation over her actions and leaning towards you. However, I could be wrong and you need to start preparations of a Plan B letter in anticipation of Dr. Harley advising the same, maybe as soon as Monday or Tuesday, if she walks out. On the other hand, he may again tell you to wait a few days or to see how Christmas goes but if she indeed walks out a Plan B letter will eventually need to be prepared anyway.

I am anticipating your update. I am really on pins and needles as to what she has filed (her actions will speak volumes).

Prayers to you,

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- I don't really believe her on this but there is a chance she's being honest...If she were to call off the attorneys again and rip up the divorce papers, I do not see OM putting up with this situation any longer. OM is single and there are plenty o' fish in the sea for him. He has a lot less vested here...he may finally move on or at least LB enough to drive WW back to you for good.

Don't under estimate a desperate single guy making a hard play for his wife. He may be lonely, confused, desperate, high ego, in love, and his quest is to win the battle, not necessarily the woman with the baggage. I fought the same battle with a younger single guy who would do anything to take my wife away. Some of these people don't have a family, morals, values, nor can they empathize with the the BS for losing their family. Later, post fog, my FWW thought that her OM was in love with being love with somebody, not necessarily her, but she was the one who fell prey to his lines and stories. Food for thought!

TooSoon

Einstein's quote: "definition of insanity is doing same thing over and over and expecting the outcome to be different".

WW is doing the same thing over and over and has a definite and distinct pattern here.

her pattern is as follows:
1)escape from house to see om in the evenings...or for a few stolen hours in the day
2)pretend to have dd with her...but we know she is not with her mom.
3)comes home and is angry at her fix being unavailable.
4)talks about how miserable she is. gains sympathy from dazed.
5)cries to dazed. says enough to keep dazed well...."dazed"...enough to buy time to eat more cake and plan escape route.

This WW has done nothing to show her position in the M has changed at all. I am a fan of behavioral psych. Behavioral psych's encourage people to modify or change their behaviors to affect outcomes. What good are a few well chosen words or sad words saying something like , "dazed I am glad you are this man now...why weren't you this man then. I might come home. I don't know. I think I need to try this out with MM" or something on those lines...

You put faith in people's actions..not their words. If somebody swears all day they are "gonna go and see a counselor" like many WS say on this site, make a chart and see actually how many times they go...and how many excuses are given when they do not go. Chalk it up to WS saying one thing but doing another. And they are many times here enabled to do so b/c the BS is so hurt, so wanting to heal their family that they will take anything handed them...especially if it SOUNDS GOOD from a WS. They think it is some epiphany that the WS has.

If an epiphany is for real, then let's see the WS live this epiphany and move out or end immediately the affair with the OP. That is what I say.

I have a friend at the hospital who is a psych. he specializes in this. He says that this time of year is notorious for people getting played by those with less than honorable intentions for them...he says he can count on this happening as he's working with a few now who are BS, who are being played big time by a WS. And that the actual ride we here call a rollercoaster makes them become basically mental patients in the end. IT is the instability that can even drive a totally sane BS insane.

It's the subtle paybacks we get from accepting the cake bits and crumbs from the WS when we take an unrepentant WS at face value. Yea, we get a payback from it. We get a little "fix" from it. Does it mean anything to the Ws?

He told me to tell anybody who wants to figure out what somebody is up to to do this...TURN THEIR WORDS TO MUTE. TURN OFF THEIR VOLUME. You know what the other person is saying to you...BUT WATCH THEM. JUST WATCH THEM. DO THEIR WORDS AND ACTIONS MESH? IF NOT, YOU'RE BEING PLAYED. Simple. Easy. That is what you do.

I had a question or two about my BF. And that's what he said. He asked me also about the behaviors of my xh. I told him what they were. He said since you speak to him so little, it is so transparent now what my xh is up to isn't it? He said when you are in day to day contact and have emotional intertwining with others that this is when we are most unable to distinguish WORDS VS. ACTIONS.

He also said that words vs. actions are many reasons people end up in divorce court. That the old "honey I am going to take out the trash today" stuff is what breaks a person down over time. The whole "yea, I AM GOING TO" stuff...when somebody promises to deliver on an action or deliver goods or something and they never follow through that leads to frustration and later on anger then rage then acting out of that anger.

But he also said there are "certain personality types" that are prone to simply cheating and lying and certain behaviors. That if they've been passively "payed back" enough during their lives and even passively encouraged by the significant people in their lives (siblings, parents, boyfriend or girlfriend and now either w or H) that these people are ones most likely to do certain things.

Wow.

Dazed, when I talk to you, I see in my mind your W. Somewhere along the way in her life, she learned how to do all this...mind you on a much simpler level. I see this here with many WS. I see it 100 percent with my xh. And it was something I can't change. The WS can though if they really want to change...really want to become that person deep down they wish they could be.

All we are able to do is encourage others thru changing our behaviors to in turn see if it can be A CATALYST TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIORS.

Perfect example: One of my students is a girl and the other one assigned to me is a guy. Both are senior students btw. The girl and guy are totally different in their clinical interactions with patients. Sue is straight on with the patients. She invites them back, asks them to politely sit down, and then begins a general history before moving on to the procedure at hand. Tim, on the other hand is totally different. He is so polite that he is passive...unententionally. He asks them to come back from waiting room after nurse calls their name. He says "would you LIKE to sit down?" Sue in turn says "Please have a seat here." Tim then after asking questions says "WOULD YOU WANT TO LIE HERE DOWN ON THE TABLE?" Sue says "I need you to sit down here, remove this or that and LIE DOWN ON THE TABLE."

Needless to say, over the last 2 mos and watching this happen, I had to go talk to my friend...I was wondering why both students being good students, were having totally different outcomes with their procedures???What was wrong with Tim? He knew what to do. He knew how to do it? Sue was flying thru things, while Tim could barely sign off on one procedure? I was worried b/c I was their instructor. Tim was getting as it seemed, the "BAD" pateints. They were always complaining of claustrophobia, or that something really hurt, or that they were always asking a million questions and did not seem to have CONFIDENCE or FAITH in Tim.

It was simple. My psych friend says that Sue has gotten how to influence the behavior of others...getting them to treat her in turn politely back, and doing what she has requested of them by giving directing words, and showing them how she expects them to behave. Meanwhile, Tim was asking the patients basically if they felt like having this procedure done? He was LETTING THE PATIENT RUN THE PROCEDURE.

Now a BS does not need to appear bossy to the WS. But I believe words should be carefully chosen and actions chosen so that the WS 100 percent understands the way the BS is handling things...the BS should be trying to do things to illicit a POSITIVE response from the WS to end the affair. Asking and doing certain things...to help the BS MOVE IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION...instead of relying only on crumbs, words of "I am gonna do this when" stuff the WS usually are wanting to spout out.

The WS wants something too. And their WORDS AND ACTIONS ARE DIRECTING THE BS SOMEWHERE ALSO..They are trying to get the BS to see their side. To move to a place where either the WS is allowed to have more cake, or to have moved to a place where the Ws is allowed to leave the family home with assets, the kids, and the family dog or lamp or rug or whatever.

It is a tug of war. But it can be won thru the changes in behavior and influencing the WS thru this to change their own bad behaviors.

Do you get this dazed? Others?

Mr. help:

Do not EVER refer passively to myself or my ideas or words as dumb. Despite my obvious difference in beliefs from you, I have not chosen to insult you as this is a site where we are to encourage others.

But a man here insulting openly a woman is wrong. I don't care if you do not directly name me, I know what you did.

In the end, I don't really care what you say, I care to simply help others. It does not bother me. What does, is the crass that you have used...the atmosphere of your writing and yes, a man being that way to a woman. AGain, it's wrong. And yes, I disagree with you openly. Will not say what I truly think about what you say, as I believe being respectful is more appropriate at this site, but will say that I instead choose to hold my words.

Lets'all focus on helping our friend. Not insulting others (who are also helping) from the sidelines so it will make OUR posts appear to have some sort of "kick" to it!

PEACH-
Your passive aggressive story is spot on... Asking versus directing... This is something "I" have not done as good as I need to do... Very good observation... Yes, I do "ask" in situations when I should be creatively directing...
As a parent, spouse, professional, life in general.. Changing my phrasing or approach on how to communicate can greatly improve by being more direct...
Thanks PEACH--- You made me think and reflect on an area that I have been below par on.

OKAY-----HERE IS THE BAD NEWS.....
I am sure you all are going to moan and say, "I told you so" over and over again....Before I even give you the news, I need you all to understand.... I did what i new in my heart was right... PLAN A was the right thing to do. I know it has been sucessful... Not ending the affair, but it proved to WW that I am a man of conviction and chose to take the higher ground and honor my commitment to her right to the very end... I DID THE RIGHT THING... I can sleep at night knowing that I set the example of what a husband and father is suppose to do for there family... Love them and protect them... Even undert the worst of storms, who was there doing just that.. ME....My daughter knows what kind of man I am now for sure... One that has done everything to hold a family together, not quit, change for the good, etc. etc... My daughter is 12... She will never forget what her mommy did and how daddy worked so hard for the good of the family... That is what I seen as the most important thing when it comes to protecting my daughter... Provide her a family where her parents love each other... FIRST THING, to protect... Second, My self..
Okay--- I not going to defend my PLAN A posistion... IT WORKED FOR ME, MY DAUGHTER, and MY WIFE....
That being said:
I need you all to help me carefully plan my next steps...

I did not recieve any divorce papers... However, my lawyer my obtained a copy of the petetion.
Temporary custody hearing is set for 9:30AM Monday morning.

WW has petetioned for:
1) 50-50 shared custody of daughter... a four day rotation plan with floating Sunday's, birthdays, and holdidays.
2) WW is to retain the house of which I am expected to continue to pay for all the bills.
3) I am to pay 190 per month for child support.
4) I am to continue to pay for all debt with the exception of her cell phone bill and personal credit cards.
5) She keeps her car and I am to keep my truck.
6) Equity and assets are to be divided and shared.

My lawyer is going to try to move to post pone the hearing procedure for 10 to 14 days...
He thinks he has a good chance of that. 1) He has conflicting trials scheduled for Monday. 2) We have not had time to prepare to for a custody dispute.

He has suggested that I negociate a resolution with her this week end before the hearing...

Suggested I basically let her know what I believe is in the best interest of daughter.
1) What do you think it will do to daughter to watch her dad pack a bag and be forced to leave home at WW's demand?
2) Daughter has voiced her opinion about what she wants.. She wants a family where we are all happily together... If that is not possible, she does not want the home rotation plan and has said, she wants to be with her dad..

3) DO NOT ARGUE OR GET ANGRY WIT HER... Explain to her that you will NOT take her daughter and hide her. Tell her you will be very liberal with visitation.
Tell her you believe it is in everyones best intereste especially for Daughter that she and her dad remain in the home.... Offer to let her have somthing else in return... This way she is getting something she wants and the Judge will see that you are not trying to take everything...
The judge we are going infront of is a guy that wants to be fair and give equally to each other unless you can prove with out a shadow of a doudt.
He said, at a temporary hearing the judge will not want to hear anything about your journals or evidence. Said, that we are not preapared to call in witnesses but even if we were the judge normally does not want to do that at temp hearing.
He said, that we will present to the court that she is only manipulating the court and has been in and out of the house all summer and is still with her OM right now... Only with drew last petetion to gain better footing to come back her today while husband has been the sole provider and parent of daughter. Also WW has already be planning to move into and apartment... We contend that WW move on into her apartment as she was planning to do... Dazed stay in the home and continue to care for daughter as the primary parent just as he has been doing... We will ask for child support but only count on it as a negociation tool.

He thinks if and that's a big if.. The judge awarded you resdencey that you will most likely not get primary custody. Her attourney will not negociate assets for kids in front of the judge...

Suggested that I may need to do that between me and WW...

Got to run for now...

BTW~
WW is not expected home until 5 pm tonight... It appears that her subaticle with girl friend "find answers" and a direction included OM. Unconfirmed report is they spent all day yesterday, all night, and today together out of town.

Don't you all come on here take turns punching me... I don't need that crap.... Do you think I don't already feel bad enough... If this is as it looks, then this woman must be one evil person...

I have a lot to do yet today... My plan B letter is going to be revised today... Will need some legal input on my final draft to make sure that I am not stepping on my you know what there...

I think she will come home and try to negociate with me about a shared custody plan if I do not fight for custody and go into trial... She will probably offer to give me all the house and only take a small payment if I agree to custody that she wants....

My take is that I need to make her truely feel the hurt of what she is doing on daughter... Even if I can't get full custody at the end of the day... Every one including daughter will know everything you have done... Make her understand that daughter will never forgive her making daddy leave the home and rotate her like tires weekly...
I am only doing with is best for the family... No punishment feelings or wording...

HELP ME with ideas...

Dazed:

Sorry for the turn of events.

I don't have any advice or suggestions, just well wishes and prayers for you and your daughter.

I think you are a good and honorable man.

Lem

ditto lemon.

I would immediately hire a PI showing that WW is not currently spending real time in family home...that she is out and about and cohabitating wtih OM.

I'd get a pile of evidence now...get attorney to postpone the trial, get more evidence, and call a meeting with WW and her attorney in a week. Don't lay out all cards, just say that we are presenting a different version to judge...the truth.

Start writing the PBL. It is time. Worried she was doing this...I sure did. Felt it coming. She is in full affair mode and is driven by the "feel good high"..

do NOT give house, do NOT give equal time with dd. She has NOT behaved as a mother should. She has been imho, endangering your dd by dumping her off. Giving her to hormonally driven teenage boys. Made me sick.

Depose the sil now. Get statements from all.

This is time to think. Make sure lawyer is a bulldog. Time for B and a dark one.

We are not saying your plan A was wrong. Not at all. It was great. And like all things, there is a time and a season for it. Consult Harley and tell him what is going on. Remember he is NOT a lawyer. Heck neither are any of us here except for maybe Mr. Wondering or maybe ...who is that oldie, my friend who is a lawyer? Can we find her?

Time to ask some legal questions here...some serious ones my friend.

WW is trying to do the "wayward bounce"...she is refusing to hit bottom. She has been unable to do so b/c she hs not faced reality. Now she's avoiding reality by trying to legally wheedle the family home, time with Dd and money and assets she does not deserve. It is time to help her see the results of her actions. I am truly sorry but deep down knew she was going to do this...especially the last week. All actions pointed to a very sad and guilty WW who knew what was coming, but was trying to soften the blow.

She came home as per her attorney. That is all. She probably does feel some remorse, some of the words she said may have some truth in it...but she is a WS. Unless her actions change, do NOT listen to her words ok?

I do believe a plan B will have a significant effect on her. But remember, she's got a persistant OM whispering in her ear what to do...and a lawayer also whispering "take half and play the poor little wounded emotionally hurt wifey" card.

Please do not be swayed by emotions right now. It is time to think clearly. If not on AD's please call your doc. Crucial time. Your dd's welfare is on the line. She deserves to be with a rational parent who can be a good parent. WW is not doing that now. She is being dysfunctional in almost all areas of parenting. Now is time to plant tape recorder in car if not done already.

Time to print off all her emails...stuff showing her 1)suicidal nature 2)how she claims she is spending quality time with dd (and have testimony otherwise from sil showing she is dumping dd off with boys) 3)how she is having an affair 4)how she is EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE to both YOU and DD...

you have all these legal claims. I would immediately if it were me, counterfile on charges of (these are what I countered with )adultery, emotional abuse and cruel treatment, and if she leaves (you let her go) abandonment. Counterfile for full custody. Counter everything she claimes basically...except ask HER for ASSETS AND CHILD SUPPORT SINCE SHE IS UNABLE TO BE A PROPER OR FIT PARENT AND YOU WILL BE THE SOLE CUSTODIAN OF DD.

It is time to think. Think alot. If WW sees her reality is not going to be as she planned...with OM...life may change abruptly for her and some fog may begin to clear.

Or she continues on same path of destruction.

Either way, it is YOUR job to be the good parent for dd and stand up and do what is right now. Not time unfortunately to worry too much about WW. It is your W you miss, not a WW. Make the distinction. Ask Orchid. She can tell you. We all can tell you that there are two different people you deal with here...the Wayward Spouse, and the real spouse. Some change back thankfully. Some do not. Maybe some were waywards all along and we missed it???

As the leader of your family, it is your objective to do what is right for the family. That is the job at hand now. Your decision what to do. What to accept. What to say NO to. I walked in those shoes and are still wearing them. The shift in my family went from a two parent household with joint decision making to a one parent household wtih only one parent using their brain. It happens sometimes sadly.

Do the right things.

Brain is to remain locked and loaded in the "on" position. Emotions and tears are to be placed in the "neutral" position. Objectives are to be defined and obtained in easiest way possible. Oh and another objective is to destroy the goals of the affair...which would be destroying your family as their primary target.

Affair goals:
1)life as usual...keeps house
2)respect obtained for WW and affair partner
3)custody to retain "respectful image"...we know that WS do not want to really be great parents...just appear to be
4)monetary assets obtained over the years
5)housewares
6)financial support
7)transportation (so the affair can get around)
8)ACCEPTANCE

Make a firm committment today to doing as good a plan B as you did a plan A. And please, find a way this weekend to leave your WW with a good taste in her mouth about you, dd and family she is leaving. Do the B as good as you did A. Same firm determination.

and no bounces for the Wayward. Judge her progress by any actions...that would be her withdrawing a petition for divorce after YOUR counter...her moving out...her ending the affair. You and dd accept nothing less.

She will NOT have her EN's met by OM...but the affair will "work" for her as long as she is allowed to have some of the "objectives" listed above. It will work for her on some level if she gets them.

Just Peachy:

I just wanted to say that "you are the Shi#"...LOL. You have this innate ability to crank out lengthy, helpful and poignant posts quicker than anyone I know here.

I could go get a cup of coffee and come back to the board and you have in the mean time cranked out a 3 page editorial of what to do, how to do it, with bullets and all. It is f-ing amazing.

You are no doubt, one highly intelligent person. Dazed should be thanking his lucky star that you did not "give up on him" and continued to post despite grossly misguided "support" and "advice" to the contrary. I will leave it at that....

Nice post.

You are quickly becoming my MB "idol"...

T/J over.

Lem

Darn it lem...you made me blush.

Quite flattered.

I don't blush easily btw...

I agree you did the right thing. Your Plan A has been phenominal. You turned yourself around midstream a little over a month ago and pulled this thing off. We always say Plan A is about handling this thing with INTEGRITY and I believe you have retained yours...no matter what the outcome. Maybe jumping the gun on the petition would have been good "legally" but as far as saving your marriage it would have involved you been perceived as the liar & manipulator. IMO, you could have gone either way and been right but following Dr. Harley's advice and sticking to your plan has placed you in the best position to yet save your marriage.


I do not see a temporary restraining order in the list of demands so she (through her attorney) are not seeking to kick you out of the house upon service which I think they can do in Kansas even prior to a temporary custody hearing. At least they were decent enough to allow you a hearing. Her attorney has ask for the complete common equal division with the woman keeping the house. Your attorney will come back with your position and hopefully the judge will not be an idiot. The 14 day delay will give you time to continue with your plan, whatever Steve says you should do.


Attorney handles divorce. Steve handles saving your marriage...Does Steve think you should negotiate???


See the bolded sentence. Did your attorney say "NORMALLY"? Does your attorney fully appreciate that this is not a normal situation? Can he not make the judge understand that this is not a normal situation? That your WW has jeopardized the safety of your daughter numerous times, ETC,ETC,ETC.? If the hearing happens Monday I can understand being ill-prepared to fight but in two weeks can't a brief with supporting affidavits be filed documenting your case?

This is an important battle as often the Temporary Order is carried through to the final custody decision to maintain consistency and to not further disrupt the childs life. I saw when researching Kansas law an evaluation can be requested. Did you discuss that option with your attorney. It may not be common practice and it may be expensive...I don't know...but it may delay things and put your wife on the defensive. Remember her addiction is OM and any and all delays will cause her to further fail your daughter as a parent which gives you further evidence. She may just "negotiate" away everything so she can move out...she's an alien remember.

As far as negotiating give her money, furniture, washer and dryer whatever to just leave. I would say do not really negotiate until after you get the 14 days delay as wife is dying to get out.

Does your wife know you know???? If not, keep it under wraps and keep plan A'ing and pushing for her to rip up the petition.

How can there be a hearing Monday if you have not yet been served??? Just a thought.


This is more an indictment on society than on anything you coulda/shoulda done. Your attorney should know better than anyone here what happens in Kansas and with this particular judge. He will battle with passion if you push him to battle with passion. I bet Steve says not to negotiate. Let the courts handle everything. I bet he believes you are eventually going to save this marriage and a temporary custody battle is not the time to throw in the towel on your plan. I await Mortarman's response as well. He has been where it appears your headed. He got to keep residency and that is where you need to draw the line, I believe. If it ends up you are sharing custody, temporarily, you will just be giving her more reality in her fantasy relationship and more chance to fail so you can, IN FACT, WIN PRIMARY CUSTODY IN THE END.


Are you sure???? Is this confirmed??? I fear she may just be hiding out in fear of how guilty she will feel when you discover what she is petitioning for. I hope I am wrong. WS behavior is so difficult to predict.


Dazed, calm down. I hope this is more about a desparate woman trying to save face and relying on her attorney. She is no more evil than she was when she started this whole mess. If I were you I'd be pissed beyond belief myself but you got to get back to making sound, non-emotional decisions. Her petition is par for the course. Her last petition was rushed and then withdrawn...this one her attorney started asking her why are you giving up this and that so easy...lets just petition for it and see what the court says...it's that easy...your the woman and the courts generally rule in your favor.

Maybe her attorney wants her to negotiate with you so that this doesn't get dragged out in court. Only negotiate if Steve says it's OK. I'd trust Mortarman's judgment also.


I can help with that but your attorney should review it also.


Doesn't hurt to find out what she wants but tell her you want to sleep on it and try to distract her and get her out or something. Until Plan B you are still in Plan A. She will be shocked if you do not respond with anger. Again, keep your emotions in check.


Take a day to think about this. Trying to make somebody "feel the hurt" does not sound very marriage building to me. I wish Steve would post right now telling you what to do so we would all know how to properly advise. All I can say is ACT, DON'T REACT. So what, you've got a petition. It's the 2nd one and you've known for weeks she was totally stuck on the fence and likely to move out or file. You can only control yourself. Stay strong...we are behind you 100%.

With Prayers and Prayers and Prayers

Mr. Wondering

BTW,

I think you mentioned a long time ago you are a business owner?

If so I know some strategies, like "inventory up" which can assist you with diminishing your marital estate.

Inventory Up - the strategy of purchasing enoromous amount of supplies and inventory that you will eventually utilize or sell but in the process reduces your access to cash. Cash is valued as $1 = $1 in the marital estate whereas a business is valued in multiple ways but most likely at "liquidation value" where $1 = $.25.

If you want some advice on some of these strategies contact me at my address below.

Mr. Wondering

P.S. - Anyone need some staples...I've still got about a 5 year supply???