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Dazed --
Its inevitable that she is going to return to you. (ok? I am convinced of it! Hold onto that thought...)
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Thank you for the support... I normally believe this too, but other times I just don't know... This is like a tug of war and I am just not sure what is going to happen, and when.
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But HOW do you want her to return? Thats what I think you should talk to Steve about.
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Obviously she needs to return because it is her choice. She has to WANT to be there. Steve wants me to continue to Plan A negociate with her until she leaves me no choice. Plan A is to show her the way towards a great marriage where both of us can be happy together... That's it.
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She could cancel all her plans right now. Void the apartment deal. Disappoint the OM. Even agree to NC. Plan on staying home. Everyone here on MB will cheer for you.
BUT...What happens then? You have then just traded places with OM! Now her expectations of you are going to be to compensate her for everything she gave up for you!
You have a wife that will be there so you can prove yourself to her. You're still in the minefield -- because you now have to be perfect. Any argument or problem will have her running back to OM.
Its a dangerous set-up for a false recovery. Because you think you've won. Even if she agrees to end the affair and stay home, you have a long road to go!
Ask MM -- it wasn't very long ago that he really felt like he's gotten the deeply felt apology he was due.
I think its really important for you (with Steve's guidance) to gauge her reasons. And she has a lot of work to do in healing herself.
In some ways, this may go faster if she really does leave and discover that OM was not all she dreamed about. Otherwise you're living with that image of perfection to be measured against.
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Yes, this is a real concern. The affair must end and is best to die a natural death. I agree... Pressuring the affair by showing WW a way to happiness in our marriage is that not the right way to do it? Plan A method of ending the affair.
YOU ARE RIGHT.. She just keeps asking for the test drive... This makes me ask myself what motivates people?
1) Fear 2) Pleasure.... Is that it in its simplist form?
So what can a BS do to save there spouse... Provide 1) or 2)
Obviously Plan A is showing love thus motivating by presenting the appeal of pleasure.... Fear of losing the BS should be a part of the plan A but it is not so easy to define and present with out love busting. This is the boundry that is so tough to set and then defind proper.
I see Plan B being specializing in Fear by introducing the TAKE AWAY. This allow time off for BS to heal and put all the load onto WW to make it on her own with OM at the wheel. No more options to waffle... Sink or swim time with out giving WS the chance to prepare and plan to run on those new affair feet she has choosen.
THE RISK: What IF she does not come back? What if there just was not enough love units deposited and the seeds of pleasure planted........
I AM SCARED I HAVE NOT ENOUGH DONE... Maybe I am all wrong... I did so very much want her to see the REAL me. She just make herself believe there is a way for us to be happy. What she has seen in me she likes. The problem is that she WILL ONLY allow herself to see a sliver of me...
So, she has doudt that I will be able to make her happy, and maintain the level of person I am now.
She will not even think about letting me meet many of her needs. So she still doudts she will be happy with out OM.
You raise a good debat... What is best: A WS to return broken from the nature death of an affair... OR Return of a WS by chosing to end the affair rather than lose marriage.
I feel if at all possible, one would want to prevent further damage and have the BS return prior to divorce and a life lead in the wrong direction that may never lead back to the family. The amount of mental damage done to both people while the WS is making a go of it with OP.
GOOD QUESTION... LET'S ALL PLAY NICE NOW....
I enjoy everyones view point...
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She needs to be repentent and most of all committed to your marriage. She's not there yet, even though you're hearing things you desparately want to hear.
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Yes, she is not there... It appears to me that FEAR of lose is what is holding her near me. I think she things in me she likes now, but is unsure of it being worth risking OM for. Maybe i am wrong... Her MOTIVATION IS: Dazed = FEAR of lose... OM = Promise of Pleasure.....
Now to a woman that felt neglected... You tell me what she most likely wants to do??? hmmmm...
I am telling presenting to her two OPTIONS;
1) A great marriage with me.
OR
2) Divorce.
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HOW and WHY she comes back is more important than just simply having her in the house. __________________________________________________ Get this plan she pitched to me this morning.... 1) Dazed call you lawyer and stop courts. 2) She leaves to go to apartment and figure it out. I said, okay.... So we are stopping the divorce then right? She said. uh no. Nothing is final for 60 days. In that time I figure it out and I come back through the front door and we work it all out... I said, basically you are only going to give us a chance when you fail....I am your default option, back up plan, seond place deal. She says, you made me feel second for ever... She got mad, clinching her fist...I told her I am sorry you are angry with me... I have only tried to comfort you, love you and show you that there is a way for us. I got up and left the room and did not speak to her the rest of the morning... She got mad at me and started the same old...Cornered me in the laundry room. She set down on the floor and cried. We are just not alike, she don't know me no more espically not now, I don't know her, we have nothing in common, I never was there before, so why should she just give me a chance. I said, you have to want to come to me... Your choice... It is both of us that together.... She says, well it never was before... You did your own thing that I did not like... So this is stupid to even argue... It's always the same old thing with you... You didn't do anything for me or us... I did everything... You just want a house maid...I do all that and you don't do nothing... I said... Okay... Why are we reliving the past... I am not taking a step back...She says, I just can't keep doing this life... I got to stop all this crap... We do nothing, we have nothing in common, you are boring, I am tired of all this... I said, WW we have no direction... No starting point to change things... We are not doing nothing because you will not allow it to happen... You come home and lay on the couch... You can not even remember our last date it has been so long ago... Of course it's bad now... That is not what I want... I want to share my life, have fun and be happy... She says, yeah right... you never did before... you are just grasping to hold on to anything... If I came back to you I bet you would go back to your old self in weeks or months...But you would... Here i would be all alone and having missed out on my chance to be happy. I told her I am sorry you feel that way... The truth is simple... I am for real... Not going back nor I am asking you to back to what we had. I believe there is a way for us, it's your choice to join me so we can be happy... I left the room.. and left for work. She called me at 10:10. Asked why am I doing this to her... Why, I am just now wanting her time, sending her notes, asking for her to call, wanting to show me love, be there for me, why now are you wanting me when you did not give -uck about me for so long... You could not bring me anything on time or correct... You never thought about me during the day, You never cared where i was at or when i was coming home... WHY did it take this to wake you up... It should not take this kind of thing to get people to love you... That is why i now you are just screwing with my head... If you really cared you would have come around before this had to happen... I said, we do have healing to do, both of us...That guy that hurt you is not here anymore... That guy did not understand and get like I do now... I am showing you how i feel about you. My eys, heart and mind or open... She says, yeah now... It should not take this to get peole to love... You have not changed you are still only out for your self... This is all about you... being old selfish you that just dont want to loose... I said, so you saying that big changes don't come from big things like this? I think the rest of our lives is a rather big thing worth changing for.... She said, well that other guy blew it... It's too late for you, why can't you just let me go... I said, It has and is your choice WW... You have the options in front of you... She said, and what are they: I said, 1) Having a great marriage with me. OR 2) Divorce. She said, we did not have a great marriage and will not have a great marriage... I said, so what is the risk to haveing a great marriage? She said, Things will go back to the way they were, you wont change I will be unhappy and have missed out on my one chance. I said, I would like for us to have great marriage. There is a way for that... What about the risk of doing what you are doing? She says, see you just keep guilt triping me... This why i can't even function at work or nothing... I just want to move in another direction... I said, and the risk of that choice is regreting it for the rest of you life... I said, okay that is fine... Its your option... A great marriage or divorce...
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You're not guilt tripping her...it seems to me that you should really just quietly, honestly, point blank let her know the truth as you see it.
"You're just guilt tripping me"- REPLY- "No, I'm simply telling you exactly how it is right now...if you're feeling guilty, that's due to your choices, not mine (end it with your favorite endearment)" And say this calmly and matter of factly.
"Why didn't you do this before...yada yada yada"- REPLY- "I've told you repeatedly, I can't change what happened before any more than you can...but I've made it very clear what is happening NOW. None of us can change the past, but we can change what we do NOW to make things better NOW, and in the future. I agree that I could have treated you better, but that in no way justifies your choice to go with OM. You know this. Right now is what matters...and our future. I've made my changes, and will continue to make them...when will you make your changes so that we'll both be happy again? The reason you're unhappy now isn't because of my past behaviors...you're unhappy right now because of YOUR behavior right now. Change that, and see how happy we can be together".
Just simply keep letting her know over and over that you've made the choices you need to, that you've made the changes in how you treat her and will continue to do so...the ONLY thing keeping her from being happy right now is HER...not you.
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It really seems like everything she's been saying to you confirms that your best chance for real recovery is for her to move out and be with OM with you going to plan B, to feel what she is losing and allow the reality of OM to sink in. You have done a good plan A; that will leave an impression.
I agree with and you should pay close attention to what Lexxy said about that above.
edited to add: What Lexxy described is what I experienced in false recoveries. I believe you can avoid what that but not settling for a recovery without a firm foundation of a repentant, remorseful FWS.
Last edited by Trix; 12/14/05 03:13 PM.
Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
MB Weekend March 2003
2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
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Owl-Yes I totally agree with you...I like your ideas.
Trix-It really breaks my heart, but it is really looks as if she is going to have to get that test drive she has always wanted...
Court and custody trial may really wrenched that plan however.... Like Lexxxy said a while back... The feel of doors closing and her family on the other side made her take a good look at OM and the rest of her life headed down that road.
The thing that I just don't want to face is she may not come back... I know it a real possiblity... Just one that I am not ready to accept yet.
Notes from Steve Harely...
About her coming to me looking for that emotional talk and comforting she is doing:
Steve suggest that I should let her come to me for this during Plan A... (Console, Confirm, Inform) Not pushing or educational.. Console her feelings and let she speak, Confirm your feelings and changes your making, Inform her of her options and make them very clear... He suggest that I need to constantly show her the options... People under this kind of stress are not thinking clear and are looking for ways out... Make sure she knows the way out and remind her so she knows it.
Make it like a menu for her...
1) Either move in a direction for the marriage......OR
2) Divorce... Of which I get the kids.
CUSTODY ADVICE
Steve suggested no negociations at all... Monday was proof of why not to even go there.... (He was very surprised by her actions Monday from violently angry to wanting direction and comforting)....
Let laywers do this... Unless I believe that daughter will be properly cared for and WW will not dump her off and or present OM to her, then do not change your stance.
Basically do I think she will continue to put the relationship above daughter...YES, I do.. He says, you have your answer. Agree to disagree..
RECOVERY STARTING POINT
Tell her if she is confused about her options and how to start.. Let's go to someone to help us...Say look we need to tap into resources to help us sort things out. To be fair to both of us we need a professional to help us get started...If is it divorce we are doing we have professionals to help us figure that out... So, we need professionals to help us figure out how we can have a great marriage. It is a team effort not you and me alone... Present this to her in a matter of fact format... No teaching...
Tell there are two options...1) Why not a great marriage? Or the 2) Divorce, the road you have us on.
WHY NOW ADVICE:
Steve says, to refer to what I did as the other guy... learn to separate the past from the present...
Acknowledge that you both have healing to do but that other guy that did not get it doesn't exist or at worst if fading away. Let her know you two can and will heal together...
APPROACH CHANGE:
Steve says to continue with Plan A unless I can't... He says he would normaly recommend a plan B but not until the temporary orders hearing is complete... There will be required contact and negociations that will break the B... He thought a bit about doing a modified plan B but said to wait and lets review a possible modified B after Monday...
Steve says, that starting a Plan B on the front side of a divorce may be nearly imposible to do not to mention all your interactions will go thru the lawyers which will get very expensive... He wants to guage TOH and think about it before i stop plan A.
UPDATE:
WW just made a brief call..
Brief pause after she said it's me.
She said, I feel awkward..
I said, go ahead I am here, you can talk to me...
WW Said, I can not control my emotions... What am I suppose to do? I can't work or nothing. I am not sure I need you any more....Why were you not here before for me?
Before i could speak her other lines rings and she says she will have to call me back... I said, sure call me back..
WHAT IS SHE DOING.... Cracking up, Looking for cracks in me, Playing and angle or really just lost..???
Last edited by dazednconfusedks; 12/14/05 04:17 PM.
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She said, Things will go back to the way they were, you wont change I will be unhappy and have missed out on my one chance. *sniff*sniff* I smell OM's words here... OM's putting pressure on her .... OM is giving her ultimatums ... "I am your one chance for happiness" "Your husband can't change" "yada yada yada" Steady as she goes sailor .... she's not convinced OM knows what he's talking about, which is why she continues to ask you the same question .... She will regret her decision to leave you ... BIG TIME
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Yeah Steve Harley!! Perfect advice from the master.
Stick with it Dazed!!
She is reacting jsut like Steve said. Read what he told you to say. get her to come to him and counsel. Keep on your other guy/new guy diatribe. Keep the black and white discussion (great marriage or divorce).
As Steve said, it is time for Plan B. But he does want you to wait a little longer due to the court stuff. Makes sense. So, you are ready for Plan B according to him. So, use these black and white discussions to begin to set-up your Plan B. It is like a slow crescendo that builds, leading to this big moment where she goes "splat!"
In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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WW Said, I can not control my emotions... What am I suppose to do? I can't work or nothing. I am not sure I need you any more....Why were you not here before for me?
Before i could speak her other lines rings and she says she will have to call me back... I said, sure call me back..
WHAT IS SHE DOING.... Cracking up, Looking for cracks in me, Playing and angle or really just lost..???Dazed, she is continuing to try and "guilt trip" you. Yes, she is cracking up. She is psychologically and spiritually a damaged soul. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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Quick update:
WW called again and is mad again about me not negociating...
She told me she has been to the MB and looking around...She said everything she read was advice to forgive and take them back and yada yada ... She says that is crap... Why do you go there... Are you one of those who types there story up for everyone to read.....
I said, Steve Harley (a professional)knows how to help people like us and the MB site has helpful information and books available...
She asked me to call my laywer and agree...
I asked her what is the risk of having a great marriage... She said, you... I said, it is your choice.... You will have to live with it..
She said, how does it make you feel that I am only there because I feel sorry for you... I worry about you being all alone... Why you left me.. I should not care.. You never gave a piss about me when you were gone... You left me all alone... So, i should not care...
I gotta got get my daughter... more later.. maybe..
WW is probably now looking for my post...
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My FWW never liked MB and still doesn't to this day. It is a reminder of how she was scrutinized by me and others for her selfish actions. Your WW is at the same place. I used to print words of wisdom printed by experienced posters and make her read them and she would criticize the stories of other WS's or BS's. Fog ridden WS's believe, in their fog state, they can beat all the odds.
Remain strong and you can win the battle away from the devil himself.
Married 20 yrs at time of affair
DD: 1/16/04
NC: Since 4/14/04
FWW: Workplace EA for 8+ months.
MC: For Awhile
Recovery Begins When All Contact Ends.
Progress: Doing very well.
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Dazed,
I think there is one thing you can tell her when she asks "why now?" My answer would be: "It is not just now. I have always loved you, I just did not know how to show it and convey it. I know NOW because your affair forced me to learn about affairs, marriages, relationships and in the process I have learned how to express and show my love."
I would also not engage her in discussion about her fears of losing out to OM. You can simply respond with "I can see how you feel that way." ANd then stop. No, "but" or "however" or anything else. Just validate and stop.
As usual SH have given you clear, good, and functional instructions follow them.
God Bless,
JL
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Nice Job JL!
Dazed.. I think that JL has come up with the PERFECT answer to that "WHY NOW" question..!!!
AND the other is great too... remember... when she asks these questions she's in "Conflict" not "Withdrawal" ONE STEP from intimate....the promised land...
Don't listen to WW right now.. she said some really hurtful things today... all FOG... (made me mad though so I imagine it did that to you too!!) ALL SMOKE.... they ALL say this vile stuff...
The staying with you because she feels sorry for you... OM's words probably.
We where worried that she would look around MB... I think if she continues.. God will lead her to information that will lift the fog... I don't think she will get it right away,.. but it will work in your favor...
OK guys... I'm almost on the Plan "B" wagon... I wouldn't unless she leaves.. which looks like it may happen.. may not....God will pull her back too like in the past....
If she leaves... I think DAZED, you should do a Plan "A" until after Christmas (only around the corner anyway) because... let's face it... there could be some good stuff even if she's not in the house...
Opening gifts with DD.. and you hopefully... looking at her REAL HOME after sleeping at the DUMP...your Christmas tree... DD upset she's not home... a lot of good "FOG LIFTER" there...
And then.... it may be time for Plan "B" (although as someone said.. the lawyers will prosper) BUT.. I think if you "go dark" during Christmas or RIGHT after she leaves...it may be taken as you PUNISHING her for trying to be happy... I think one day at a time but it may be the only way to go IF she leaves...I think you've done a GREAT "A" and are more than ROY you may be Plan "A'er" of the YEAR!!
She's getting a lot of junk from OM right now... let him try and fill ALL her needs... HE CAN'T....he'll never be "Daddy" he'll have never walked her home as a kid... he'll never be her high school sweetheart......he'll never be her husband of 14 years....the "perfect hair toucher" .....etc....and they/she figure the only thing keeping them from "soul mate happiness" (agggghhhhh!!) is your selfishness... the bubble will burst fast I believe... OM HAS NOTHING... just false hopes.... his "true" selfish colors will come to light fast....he's a lier and has made your W one... they will NEVER trust each other and THAT is the foundation of ANY good realtionship...OM knows she still loves you... he'll make her a prisoner and she'll be so unhappy...
I will continue to pray that God softens her heart to you... that her pain of the past will be seen for what it really was... not a BAD husband.. just a uninformed one....and SHE a VERY BAD communicator... but.... I'm afraid that she may have to travel the hard road home as many do....Your INCREDIBLE Plan "A" will be the crumbs that will be her roadmap home... and hopfully she will be able to forgive HERSELF.... for the terrible mistake she seems to STILL want to make...
As always... I'm praying really hard for you... GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK
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I want to give props out to all of you that have been helping me.... This is has to be one of the worst experiences any one would ever have to face......
I just recieved two more WW phone calls.... Her asking again if I would agree to avoid court....
I told her I refuse to negociate divorce terms only marriage terms... She says well your lawyer has not changed his motion for custody and everything... I said, I have not spoke to the man so i don't think he has any reason to change anything... That is what the court room is for...Divorce negociations are done there...
She says, do you know what your lawyer well do to me in there? He will make me out to be the bigget slut there is and look like an unfit mother...
The rest of the call was her accusing me of everything, more of her justification walks down memory lane... She just tried to trump everything I said...
Blamed me for everything...Says this is all about me being selfish and just wanting to get my way...
Everything with me has been nothing but a fight... We have never agreed on anything...
Just a really wrotten phone call... She even threatened me.. Said, that if I want to make her look bad in court then she will let everyone know how bad our marrige was and tell them all about never coming home, leaving her all alone with our kid and how she had to do everything for all of us so they all know what a bad husband / dad.
Asked me if I would like her to tell everyone about the time six years ago she found a porn site on our computer history file...
Accused me of having and affair with a co-worker five years ago....
Get this: She put me on hold in the middle of all this... So I hung up to take a call on another line... She calls me back in a couple of minutes and is mad because i hung up.. Said, see you are selfish... WOW...
I just reminded her this is her choice: Work on a great marrige with me or divorce...
Confirmed my feelings and thoughts, Informed her of her choices...
This all sucks... I hate this...
She made a comment that i did not even follow up: "I guess people have to pay the cost for what they do". Yeah, I know she implied that to me for our past... I was thinking just the opposite...
I felt like some of my comments were love busters... I know it is standing my ground and not conseeding the marriage... I just hate all this... Fog babble--Hate--what ever it all sucks....
I am not looking forward to this court thing either... It feels wrong of me to ask for everything...
It feels like manipulation more than anything... I know WW has not been a good mom to daughter...The thing I keep telling myself is that she is putting an affair in front of her daughters best interest... How can I as a father and a husband give her anything to fuel that....
I just feel so bad for it... I don't want daughter in court having to nightmare of having to pick who she wants...
I had to do that as a child myself... I will never forget what that did to me as a child.
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I am not looking forward to this court thing either... It feels wrong of me to ask for everything...
It feels like manipulation more than anything... IMVHO the only reason it could even somewhat feel like manipulation is because you've been immerced in your wife's for so long that you can't see straight. Do the right thing by your daughter and protect her which means go for everything. Your lawyer better be ready to unload on Monday not holding anything back. Your wife needs a wake up call and if hearing all this in court doesn't wake her up then you definately need to protect that child....... And remember buddy, I'm over in Salina and a member of the been there done that club, so if you get over this way, I like to drink coffee.....
Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz
Bill
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Dazed- I think that you're doing the right thing by not giving in to her efforts to get you into 'negotaTions' ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). I think that some of the 180 talk I've heard here might be in order when she gets on one of her runs against you... WW: "You're just trying to get your way in this!" Dazed: "So, you think I'm just trying to get MY way in this?" WW: "Your lawyer will make me look like a slut, and an unfit mother." Dazed: "So you're worried that they'll make you look like an slut and unfit mother?" Pause after EVERYTHING to let her THINK about what you've just said...the wonder of this is it will start to sink in somewhat...she'll start to listen to what she's saying and maybe even realize that she IS acting like a slut and an unfit mother. (sorry man). That SHE is just trying to get what SHE wants...not the other way around. Don't even respond to anything she says...just repeat it back to her in the form of a question...quietly, non-confrontationally. I used this tactic a few times to wake my wife up when she was doing this kind of fog-babble. And stick to your guns. Personally, I'd ask her to not even bother ASKING you anymore about the negotiations...you've made it clear where you stand, you're not going to change, so there's no need to fight over it. If all she wants is a divorce, that will be handled by the lawyers. If she wants to reconcile, you'll get the professionals to help with that too.
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(((Dazed)))
I alwys read your thread, but don't post on it often. I just had to say that it is unbelievable to me the common threads that WS seem to be woven out of. I am also getting the "you always have to be right", "your divorce offer is so unreasonable it just proves why I have to divorce you" and all the wonderful walks down memory lane (puke emoticon).
We must feel blessed to have married such saints that they have put up with us so long until they just finally broke down.
But at least all this experience builds character - right?
You are incredible with your plan A, I feel your story must have a happy ending in the future, I just can't believe everything you are going though is for nothing.
(And speaking as a FWW, don't give an inch on divorce negotiations - JMO)
Me-41 BS (FWS) DH-41 WS (FBS) 2DD's- 10 and 12 Married 15 years Separated for 2 years after my A Reconciled for 1 year before his A D-day for his A 8/23/05 WH moved out 9/16/05 Divorce final 1/23/07 Affair ended or month or so later My Story
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[quote]I just recieved two more WW phone calls.... Her asking again if I would agree to avoid court....
I told her I refuse to negociate divorce terms only marriage terms... She says well your lawyer has not changed his motion for custody and everything... I said, I have not spoke to the man so i don't think he has any reason to change anything... That is what the court room is for...Divorce negociations are done there...
EXCELLENT, excellent response!
She says, do you know what your lawyer well do to me in there? He will make me out to be the bigget slut there is and look like an unfit mother...
Pardon me, but if the shoe fits.....
Blamed me for everything...Says this is all about me being selfish and just wanting to get my way...
Everything with me has been nothing but a fight... We have never agreed on anything...
My XH used to pull this one, as well. Also played the "we have nothing in common" card. In fact, at one point, I heard him tell OW via phone how we don't even like the same kind of food because he likes shellfish and I don't. Um, no......I am allergic to shellfish and will land in the hosital if I eat it.....
Just a really wrotten phone call... She even threatened me.. Said, that if I want to make her look bad in court then she will let everyone know how bad our marrige was and tell them all about never coming home, leaving her all alone with our kid and how she had to do everything for all of us so they all know what a bad husband / dad.
And when her attorney attempts to do this (if he/she does), your attorney will be objecting and the judge will either sustain the objection or ignore the tesimony (what the judge will actually say is he/she will "give it the weight it deserves"). This is irrelevant to who is best fit to have custody of DD, today. Also, what kind of H you were has no bearing on custody of a child.
Asked me if I would like her to tell everyone about the time six years ago she found a porn site on our computer history file...
Again, should her attorney try to do this, your attorney will be objecting furiously as it is irrelevant for what is taking place, today. Also, unless she can prove daughter has see those sites on the computer, it is irrelevant.
Accused me of having and affair with a co-worker five years ago....
First, she has to be able to prove the affair took place, not just make wild accusations. Second, your attorney should, again, be objecting. Also, there is something called "condonation." Ask your attorney about whether it applies in your state - definition from Black's Law Dictionary is: The conditional remission or forgiveness, by means of continuanace or resumption of marital cohabitation, by one of the married parties, of a known matrimonial offense committed by the other, htat would constitute a cause for divorce; the condition being the offense will not be repeated. This has been abolished in states that recognize no fault divorces.
Regards,
BB
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Dazed- I think that you're doing the right thing by not giving in to her efforts to get you into 'negotaTions' ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). I think that some of the 180 talk I've heard here might be in order when she gets on one of her runs against you... WW: "You're just trying to get your way in this!" Dazed: "So, you think I'm just trying to get MY way in this?" WW: "Your lawyer will make me look like a slut, and an unfit mother." Dazed: "So you're worried that they'll make you look like an slut and unfit mother?" Pause after EVERYTHING to let her THINK about what you've just said...the wonder of this is it will start to sink in somewhat...she'll start to listen to what she's saying and maybe even realize that she IS acting like a slut and an unfit mother. (sorry man). That SHE is just trying to get what SHE wants...not the other way around. Don't even respond to anything she says...just repeat it back to her in the form of a question...quietly, non-confrontationally. I used this tactic a few times to wake my wife up when she was doing this kind of fog-babble. And stick to your guns. Personally, I'd ask her to not even bother ASKING you anymore about the negotiations...you've made it clear where you stand, you're not going to change, so there's no need to fight over it. If all she wants is a divorce, that will be handled by the lawyers. If she wants to reconcile, you'll get the professionals to help with that too. Owl, this is VERY good. Dazed, this is great advice. Keep on keeping on. This will get better, I promise. She is moving forward. This is good. But the suck-factor is gonna be around for a little while longer. Take a deep breath...grab your "weapon," and get back to the battle. In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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We must feel blessed to have married such saints that they have put up with us so long until they just finally broke down. LMAO - so true so true!
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OOOOOOOOGGGAAAAHHH! FOG Warning OOOOOOOOGGGAAAHHH! Don't take her words to heart Dazed, she's just spewing bile again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Just like all the other times. WS's tend to do that alot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You're getting excellent advise from all the posters. I especially liked Lexxxy's post on how the WW returns. Worthy of real consideration. I think that PL's post on OM's coaching is right on the money also. WW is desperate to avoid court. She knows that it will not go well for her. She will try to manipulate you anyway she can to avoid going. She knows inside that court is going to blow the fog away and she is desperatly trying to cling onto the fantasy. She made a comment that i did not even follow up: "I guess people have to pay the cost for what they do". Yeah, I know she implied that to me for our past... I was thinking just the opposite... Does WW know the definition of Irony? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I am not looking forward to this court thing either... It feels wrong of me to ask for everything...
It feels like manipulation more than anything It is not manipulation and I would not fear court either. This is just one more step that you are taking to clear out the fog, make her look at the reality & the consequesces of her actions. If this is what it takes for her to become repentant then so be it. I know WW has not been a good mom to daughter...The thing I keep telling myself is that she is putting an affair in front of her daughters best interest... How can I as a father and a husband give her anything to fuel that.... WW IS putting the affair first. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> As a father and husband you can not do anything to make this easier for WW. I thank God that DD has at least one functioning parent. Stand your ground and stay strong. DD IS watching you and will remember what you do for the rest of her life. Be the stearling example of what a Father and Husband should be. Let her see what WW has become. I just feel so bad for it... I don't want daughter in court having to nightmare of having to pick who she wants...
I had to do that as a child myself... I will never forget what that did to me as a child. This may well be the final act that blows the "fog" away. The choices that you have made and that WW has made will make this an easy decision for her. Unpleasant but still easy. If DD has to choose and DD chooses you it will be like a hurricane going through the fog. Stay Strong
WTF
*** Warning *** Make sure brain is engaged before shifting mouth out of Neutral.
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Bill-
Hey neighbor...Thanks for the invite...can you put your email address up briefly so i can contact you?...I believe salina has a couple good coffee shops.
OWL- My spelling is atleast humorous...
Thanks for the babble advice... I like your approach there..I think I really need to let most of it just go in one ear and out of the other and remain calm, NOT angry and consistantly console, confirm, inform...
Yes, I agree... I am going to decline to any negociations and only present her options...
UPDATE:
THIS IS SO SAD....
Daughter called WW from school nurses office before 1PM. Asking WW to come take her home... I spoke with daughter on the phone and she said that her head hurt like usual and she needs to talk to me and mom when we get off work...
WW did go and pick her up from the school and took her home.
I called WW shortly after 2PM to ask her if she new what was going on with daughter...
She said, well you talked to her... What do you think? I said, she only told me about her head hurting, stomach upset and wants to talk when we get home...
WW said, well your super dad... You should know what the problem is... I did not say nothing.
WW says, well.... Daughter said she can't think about school no more... She just got her first D on a test in her life... It was really big test too... She can't get math no more... Her stomach is sick all the time... She don't know why mommy don't love daddy no more and why mom is doing this....
I did not say anything because at that moment i wanted to reach throught the phone and ****** slap that woman....
I said, that is terriable... This all is terriable...
I have to go...
I called daughter to make sure she is okay... Also, just called and set up an appointment with an IC for daughter and myself...
WW just called back and accused ME of doing this...I should not have told everyone and it is my fault for running my mouth on D-Day in front of daughter...
She asked me if I had called daughter and explained to her that mommy is just an adultress and a slut... I said, I have never said anything like that to her.... Well how about your mom, or my sister... They probably told her for you...Well call her up, comfort her and tell her how bad her mom is for all this and its all my fault...so go be super dad....
Question:
Does anyone think that giving WW that article about what divorce/affairs does to kids would have any affect on her?
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