(((((((((dazed)))))))))

I'm not the one to be giving you any advice, but I just want you to know that I'm thinking of you. It sounds like yesterday was **** for you. Don't believe any of the negative things they said about you.

****It just feels like I am doing something wrong... WHY..... ****

Because that's what they (WW and Lawyer) are working for. They want you to question yourself and feel guilty so you'll give in and give them what they want. You are NOT doing anything wrong. You are fighting for your family and especially for dd's safety. You are in the right. Don't forget that. And please, please, be careful. There are some really high emotions in all of this, and you need to be so careful.

I'm praying for you and your family.

Take care,

WOM

((((Dazed))))

You did good, you protected your daughter and you continue to protect your family, that's amazing..... Definately commendable....

I know this is a tough time for you, no one ever said that doing the right thing was easy... I can relate to all your feelings, they are ones I felt in the past. Take a break from all of this and just love your daughter through the holidays...... Make this the best one yet.....

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers.....

Dazed, my comments above come from representing clients before judges. Good lawyers can read the judge (or know from previous experience representing other clients before that judge) and balance their approach accordingly. Your lawyer did well.

Now, why does this feel so bad. It feels bad because you are hurting the woman you love (even if it is for her own good). Tough love hurts - that's why they call it tough love. Also, by fighting for custody, you are being DD's knight in shining armor protecting her from WW's goofy behavior and OM's scary behavior. If someone tried to take my kid away from me - even part of the time - I'd be fighting tooth and nail. In fact, a year after my D was final, I had to travel on business to the country where XH lives. I took DS with me so that he could see his Dad. I instructed XH that, under no circumstances was he to meet OW. XH respected that and, guess what????? It caused a MAJOR feud between the two of them and, guess what???? 3 months later they split up! It is our job, as parents, to protect our children from immoral, illicit situations and from situations where their physical and emotional well being are at stake. I'm sorry Dazed, but basis what you've said about OM, in my opinion, both could be at issue if you don't fight and fight tough.

Regards,

BB

Dazed-

Mild 2x4...more like a 1X1 trying to just get your attention.

Look at your options...you could either go for full custody like you have and make your wife very upset...OR....

You could have given in and basically AGREE TO ALLOW YOUR DD TO SPEND TIME WITH THIS GUY!!!!

Based on that, how could you possibly consider what you've done to be a bad thing?!?!?!

All you have done here is protect your daughter...and if your WW says ANYTHING about it, you tell her that. Tell her that all you've done is protect your daughter. Since your WW has done nothing but ditched your DD so she could be with OM, the choices if she DID have custody would have been that she would have gone back to ditching DD again...or bring her with her to be with OM. There was no way you were in a position to agree with either of those...so what OTHER choice did you have?

Tell her that point blank...don't sugar coat it.

There is NO other way to see this.

Tell your WW that this has ALL been her doing...every single bit of it. She's had (and still has) the power to end all of this insanity by simply stop acting like her daughter is more mature than she is and START acting like a responsible adult. But as long as she remains like she is, there is no way you can do anything other than protect your DD.

Sounds to me like you're back in the 'blame Dazed for everything' phase...remember what I've told you before friend...this is her #1 tactic to get what she wants...by making YOU feel guilty. You're NOT guilty of anything here, so don't let her do that to you.

Remember what I said about the repeating what she says!!!

Wife: "You're just punishing me and being mean and selfish!"

Dazed: (Quietly, calmly, with the emphasis placed QUIETLY on the appropriate words) "So I'm punishing YOU? So I'M being mean and selfish?"

Done VERY VERY quietly...whisper it if she can hear it.

Document all of these suicide threats. At this point, I would seriously consider talking with the police about the repeated suicide threats...for two reasons. One, if they evaluate the situation and feel she IS a threat to herself, they can get her into a place that can HELP her...incidentally this should remove her from OM's influence for a while too. Secondly, it DOCUMENTS these threats...which sadly is just one more reason why she's NOT a fit mother right now.

Personally, the next time she showed up screaming and shouting and attacking...I'd tell her that enough is enough. If she can learn to act like a responsible adult, you're more than willing to talk with her, but if all she wants to do is attack and scream, she should spend some time shouting at her pillow first so that she can treat with you like an adult.

Do I have to turn in my "Guy" card if I said that all of this makes me want to cry?

Dazed,

Almost exactly a year ago, I went thru the same exact thing (Dec 13th). YOU DID THE RIGHT THING!! Your wife is now hitting rock bottom, as mine did.

There is hope in her hitting bottom. Please see that. Even her family is now getting active in applying pressure on her to go home.

I told you she would be angry, and say lots of things. My wife did too. Same sort of stuff your wife is saying. Please stop reading into what she is saying...she has lost her daughter and she is in pain!! she will say ANYTHING!

What to do now? First, take a deep breath. You have crossed the first hurdle. Your attorney is correct, most of the time the person with temporary custody will get permanent custody. So as long as you keep your stuff straight, then your daughter is now protected.

You have now moved into the next phase. This is Pre-Plan B. You need to let this huge thing settle in on her and see how she reacts. No pressure from you. No trying to bargain with her to come home. Nothing.

When she wants to contact you, she will. If she doesnt approach you about daughter on Christmas, then dont you go looking for your wife to make arrangements. She has to continue to feel her family pulling away.

This is no longer Plan A. And it isnt Plan B. This is a very short, temporary lull in the battle...a ceasefire. You need to stand back and just wait for a few days, or even until after the first of the year, before going to Plan B. Let this settle in. Let her have the chance to make a decision thru this. Then if she doesnt, then you go to Plan B probably right after the Jan 2nd hearing! Please dont do it before then, because one of the big things that judges look at is which parent will best afford access to the child for the parent with visitation. You must appear to be open to your wife having as much access to your daughter as possible. And since there isnt much time to show that your Plan B doesnt mean she doesnt get access, then her lawyer could take your PBL and paint you into a corner as trying to pull her away also.

Dazed, my wife and I began talking within two days after the hearing. I just listened...and when I talked, I only said softly "Honey, this is not what I want. I want our family together. It is still there for you."Just listen, Dazed. Let her talk herself thru this. Offer to pay for a session or two for her with Steve Harley. Dont push...just offer.

Again, you must now go into protection mode. Your wife has left your family. Hopefully temporarily. You and your daughter are left. For your daughter's sake, try to get that household back into a routine. It will help DD get back on track in school and emotionally. You can now stop all of the mess that has been going on in that house. Change the locks immediately. This is no longer your wife's home, due to the decree by the judge. Make your home a safe haven for your daughter.

By doing this, it will also have an effect on your wife. She will see that she is out, and that her family is leaving her behind. Let her feel this!! It is how she will return!

You have not done wrong Dazed. You have done the best thing for your wife and your daughter. Now let this play out.

In His arms.

This is good news. DD in now away from OM and away from WW's poor parenting choices.

BTW: What is a GA?



This is the only interpetation that she can understand right now. She still can not accept that you are still willing to work it out with her and that the changes are real.



What great news. MIL is a very powerful ally to have in the fight to save your M.



We know what is going on. OM is filling her with more venom to spew and to tighten his control on her. Now he has time for uninterrupted LB'ing. WW is going to LB right back at him. There is no way he can console her over the "loss" of her daughter. He can not shield her from the consequences of their actions.



YOU DID THE RIGHT THING!!! You have protected DD and allowed WW to finally see the results of her choices. She needs to face this and come to terms with it. She can see her choices very clearly now. You and DD and wonderful home or OM she is becoming increasingly afraid of.



I will keep telling you as long as you need to here it. YOU DID THE RIGHT THING!!!



You are not punishing WW. You are allowing her to see the results of the choices she has been making lately. She WAS a good mom but she is not being one now. You are being the responsible parent now. WW did cover for you. Now you are doing it all for her.



You are feeling bad about this because the woman that you love is in great pain. You want to comfort her.

She is finally getting her "test drive" with the OM. It will not last long! It is costing her everything she once held dear. The OM can not fill those EN's and they will keep LB'ing all over each other.

The only question will be how repentive will she be when it is done. Only is she is truly repentive will you be able to work on the M.

Stay Strong!

Tomorrow is her 33rd birthday...

I had been planning on atleast sending her flowers...
I was going to do 33 roses... It was a tradition I would send her flowers to match her age..

Is there anything wrong with that... I was kinda thinking about what to put on the card...

Yeah, this is really hard for me... I woke up every hour last night... For some reason I woke everytime in a panic almost...
Yesterday I woke up at 6AM went down to wake up WW on the couch... I had forgot she was not there... I am so blessed that our daughter is in the house with me...

The next step for me is going to police and get the RO in place... Tonight I am taking daughter to swim team... That will give me two hours to go and get that done...

This is hard on daughter as well... She is really hurting about her mother... She could not go to school today because she said her stomach feels sick because of mom...

I could not leave her at home today, so I took her to work with me... Thank god I have an office where she can hang out and not get in the way...

Ditto MM:

Add only:

1. When communicating your attempts to allow access to daughter and make christmas arrangements do it by email or text message. Even if you discuss it follow up with an email to insure you have documentation of your attempts to allow access to daughter.

2. Have that meeting with SIL and get her on the record with a written statement or recording as I discussed a week ago or so. Your daughter may be protecting wife but more likely protecting herself cause she should have told you what was going on. SIL may be exaggerating as well but let the Judge determine that. You just present what SIL said.

3. If daughter is in school tomorrow book yourself a massage...you are probably tighter than a size zero dress on Oprah Winfrey.

4. Follow up or through on the counseling appointment for you and DD12.

5. Try to shift your focus to DD12 and you...be prepared for your own impatience and withdrawal if WW does go quiet for a week or so, be prepared to handle your own anxieties, emotions, and loneliness during this otherwise hopeful holiday week. There are bigger problems in the world (though it may not seem like it) and try to genuinely be thankful for what you've got.

You are so doing the right thing. I can only imagine how difficult yesterday was. You know after a woman gives birth they almost completely forget about the pain that preceded the birth only moments later. I hope you can access that ability within yourself and move forward day by day. This is your rock bottom as well and you are handling yourself admirably. You've got my respect.

Prayers to you,

Mr. Wondering

P.S. - dead on with MIL. She can only help WW by listening as WW processes the situation and makes her own choices.

If this is truly a tradition that she has enjoyed in the past then by not doing this it becomes even more of a reality check of what she is doing.

I think the 33 flowers would be a good gesture. It probably won't be appreciated but you must continue to ACT like the loving husband you are and not REACT to her behavior and poor choices.

However, I would value what MM says more as he has been where you are. Harley's advice would be important as well.

Mr. W

GA = Guardiam Ad Litem (court appointed attorney or counselor assigned to represent daughter's interests in the matter)

No problem with that, Dazed.


Trust the Lord, Dazed. You have no regained control over this situation. Unless something goes wrong with custody in upcoming hearins, then you are on track to have your life improve from here on out. This mess is over with. Now it is time to clean up. We will see if your wife is going to be there to help. If not, you have learned a lot about how to be a great husband...and a great dad. But, as I said before, my bet is still your wife coming home.


YES! RO against OM. Make sure that happens immediately. Second thing, for your security as well as for keeping yoru wife out of your "safe haven," you need to change the locks immediately.


Just love on her. This is also going to get easier on her as time goes on. Again, that house has to be a safe haven for her. The only way your wife comes back in there is if she has her act together. You protect her and provide that place for her.

Dazed, your daughter is pre-teen (as mine is). If you dont offer her a safe haven as the man in her life...some other man (boy) will do it. She is going to need a safe place to be. If you dont offer it, there are others who will.. Guys kinda similar to the OM!

When I was praying and trying to figure out what to do, all of my prayers, Scripture readings and even counselign with my pastor came back to three simple things: forget about your wife, get back to your first love (Jesus), and die for your wife.

You are doing this, Dazed. Stay with that. Keep focused. it wont be long now.

In His arms.

Good stuff, Mr. W.

yes dazed, by all means send the flowers. it will remind her of that tradition, and not allow her to continue pretending that you were awful all along.

this was so important. you did good. I know it hurts. Take your mind off of WW, and keep it on DD.

Follow MM's advice to the letter. She's going to come back dazed, be ready.

Dazed,

Send the flowers. I'm sure she woun't acknowledge them but it will make a difference to her to still be remembered. If you don't she'll just interpet it as you're being small and petty and mean.

You did great! You followed through on everything you needed to do and the DD is now safe from the WW \ OM.

You've picked up two great allies for the recovery of your M. Your MIL and LB'ing OM.

Like Lexxy says: She's going to come back dazed, be ready!

Stay Strong!

Yes she probably will...but not until she is NO longer a WS ok?

She is getting very very close to rock bottom dazed. I predicted this would have to happen. She will have to see how life is like as an outsider now.

I would have dd also sign the card for mom. It would make dd see how you are caring...and how you are doing what is right for dd. For her to know you're a good and faithful dad and a good H!

Many kudos to you for that most difficult day.

And yes, the pain you are feeling will subside. For me, court was surreal the first time. My attorneys went out swinging and the wh went down. The entire court room boo'd him...and deep down when they did, I felt like crying inside b/c this was the man I did not want to hurt...but he was so emotionally abusive to us and was unrepentant to the core.

Give her time to crash now. It's coming soon! Make sure the RO is done. OM is a psycho dude. I would NOT want that kind of person anywhere near my child.

WW is going thru many emotions...and they are all THE RESULT OF WHAT SHE HAS DONE....NOT WHAT DAZED HAS DONE OK? it is the COMING FULL CIRCLE OF HER LIES AND DECEIT.

Btw...their affair is going to die soon.

Right now, they will bond together briefly in unision for maybe a day...at best...and then she will begin to question her choices. She needs the space to do that. It will soon be all to transparent for her to see. She will soon say if ALLOWED TO HIT BOTTOM..oh no..what have I done? My family is gone..it is MY fault! And there will be blaming b/w the OM and WW. They will UNGLUE faster if YOU ARE NOT THE GLUE THAT BINDS THEM TOGETHER.

Let this trial be the ungluing. This is why I say be loving...but DO DISTANT A AND MAKE IT THE BEGINNING OF B...the flowers are the singal of the end of A. She knows you love her. She knows deep down she is NOT a good mom right not truthfully.

I really like your MIL! She has class! Make sure she's invited over to Christmas dinner ok? And I've found...at least when I was hurting the most during a holiday just a few years back...that if I did something to give to somebody less fortunate...who had more pain than I did..that it made things more in perspective. Maybe get with dd and bring some toys to an orphanage, or gifts to a nursing home?

My original prediction was that she'd hit rock bottom before new year if you went dark. And you're close. I think it will be at least by second week in january though.

Right now, do NOT be surprised if they try to cook up some hairbrain scheme, the Waywards...My xh did...he tried to make me...ME a medical professional and elected state president of my med society look like I was off my rocker...he tried soooo hard ot make me look bad in court. Just roll the lies off your back. Do not be surprised of anything in the next few days. She could come home...she could agree to NC...or she could swing the other way to hatefulness and anger..

just know the end result is gonna be the same...she will crash...the affair CANNOT SURVIVE THIS KIND OF TRUTH AND STRESS ON THEIR LIES!

That's what it is! A TRUTH ATTACK! Bombs were dropped yesterday and it cleared away some of the rubble and the fog is beginning a teeny bit to clear. If she has soul left, which I pray she does, she will return home soon.

And have peace my friend. Irregardless of your WW and what she decides to do, you have secured the life of your dd. Her integrity...her innocence. That is huge my friend! You are some kinda dad!

Do not feel bad for WW right now. She is playing the SAME CARD SHE HAS ALWAYS PLAYED WITH YOU...feel sorry for me dazed! Despite the fact I am a grown woman, of good intellect, and fully know right from wrong, feel sorry for me because I haven't learned how to control my urges! That is what she is really saying ok?

And please keep record of the suicide threats. If she is suicidal, please call the police. I am sure your MIL would also support this...and if need be, get her to a hospital..which will for sure be away from OM...and for help. It could be manipulation or it could be a real cry for help. I just don't see her really being honest with anybody...including herself right now though.

Based on my favorite quote (definition of insanity by einstein), I can guess she will try more manipulative behaviors though..WHY? IT HAS WORKED WELL FOR HER BEFORE!

This OM best be really slick...because there IS NOTHING ANY MAN ON EARTH COULD SAY OR DO FOR ME THAT WOULD MAKE ME LEAVE OR RISK THE WELFARE OF MY DS! That guy is toast dazed! And you're the toaster <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We're proud of you!

I say change your name from dazed and confused to AFFAIR TERMINATOR! You are awesome! we are praying.

Yep flowers for sure,
Know why? She'll see you being sweet and setimental.
On the other hand, OM WILL GO NUTZO. Guess what he'll do then. Yep LB all over your WW.
She'll have some GREAT comparisons to make after that happens, won't she?
All blessings,
Jerry

Thank you, everyone for your support...

Lexxxy- You said it a week ago about WW must come home repentant... I totally agree... I had hopes that she would only need to swan dive off of the front porch steps and hit bottom rather than from the roof top...

I feel the big question now is how long and how much pain will it take for her to really believe in coming home.

As long as she does what ever "ultimatum man" desires then he wont be angry and every thing will be happy and fun right...lol

Ultimatum man will now have his chance to be test driven...What a ride that has to be...

Yes, I have learned so much about life and how to be a husband that values family... Most likely no matter the out come with WW, I will never forgive myself for my choices...
Not in a negitive way... What I did wrong should serve to motivate me to NEVER make the same mistakes... It is just a shame that everything had to be completely broken before it could be fixed...

I know my wife made the biggest mistake of all by taking our problems to another man... She has many demons inside her that must be delt with at some point in time... Her OM has no idea of these demons or how to deal with them...
I feel bad myself, because I was aware of many of them and just kind of let them slide over the years...

I am just kind of venting here.... Not much of a point..

Dazed,

I think flowers are a great idea, from you and DD.

And....have them delivered to her job for all to see!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Lady