I am so hurting for your dd right now.

Your WW is an abusive mom.

And you'd BETTER HAVE WRITTEN DOWN VERBATIM THE HORRID ACTIONS OF HER MOM THIS WEEKEND...from insults, to yelling, to speeding, to being emotionally abusive to dd and you.

Your dd is hurting!

your focus is still on WW...get it...your DD is who is the focus.

she can't be in this drama anymore. You're both gonna hurt her so much more if YOU KEEP ALLOWING THIS INTO HER LIFE.

Tomorrow is day one for hardball.

Plan B is needed now. Your dd cannot be exposed any further to a woman this cruel and abusive. I am sickened to think an impressionable preteen girl is around a woman who yells, screams, tell her she's fat, ugly and smells...and then walks out and abandons her and leaves for another man.

Your dd is so hurt ...get over dealing with a WS right now and do the right thing in court.

And yea, wW played you. and she got in trouble with OM for the car thing. She played and IS PLAYING YOU BOTH.

but she sould NOT BE PLAYING DD...and she is.

this is not a game...not about kids.

Tomorrow after court, change locks. Change everything. Install burglar alarm if you have to. Until WW becomes a FWS, it's plan B time.

I have to confess to you. Being a mom and seeing how much and how far I have gone and still go to protect my ds from the mess his dad made, it makes me TOTALLY SICK TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE FOR YOUR DD SAKE.

Please wake up and deal with WW as you should...she is a WS. And she's out of control. She is abusive period. And endangered your dd's life today with that driving stunt.

The GA must be informed of her latest antics ASAP...NO PUTTING OFF COURT! PRESENT IT AND HAVE LAWYER PRESENT IT TOMORROW...PRESENT IT TO THE COURT JUST AS IT HAPPENED.

Her abuse to dd has to end.

And you need to stand up and show your cajones.

SHOW YOUR CAJONES.

I am almost too hurt to read any more posts about you...sorry, but I hurt far too much for your dd...

If you read the GAL report quickly and it is favorable to you try to get the hearing done with. Don't let your attorney push for adjournment and have him fight her attorney on adjournment. If it's favorable then get er done.

Not to mention you'll both save on attorney fees. Both attorney's will have to prepare more, file responses to the GAL report and show up again for another hearing.

WW needs to feel the consequences fully and with finality and you need to go to Plan B, for you and your daughter.

Good luck tomorrow and you are in our thoughts and prayers.

Mr. Wondering

P.S. - You could leave an inocuous phone message on your wife's cell phone knowing OM is going to retreive it. Like "thanks for the McDonald's this morning and when you come over Monday I'd prefer Wendy's. BTW, thanks for everything Friday night, I really missed that. Make it real in case wife gets her phone back but pointed to bust up the game she is likely playing on OM.

time for B.

Protect DD.

Go for the hearing...if it can go thru, make it happen. If it is in dd favor that is.

Nothing short of plan B after.

I am sorry to say this...she is too abusive to be a mommy right now. She can heal herself..with or without om. But she needs to heal first...get some help with her self inflicted anger that is just lashing out at the world...including HER OWN DD...whom she is mentally abusing right now. And you too.

HI Dazed,

Your WW is WS rookie of the year... that's what you're dealing with here!!

Plan "B" WILL NOT PROTECT your DD.... not if the court provides your WW with even weekends awarded to her she STILL do a TON of damage... MORE damage really if you are in Plan "B" because... YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO PROTECT HER.... Remember.... Plan "B" is for YOU to protect your love for your WW (which I know is getting damaged right now) and NOT to protect your daughter....( it can't really)....

Your WW is hurting... she is almost losing her mind... if she were SURE she wanted OM.. she would be a LOT calmer....She KNOWS she needs to come home but either the addiction is too strong.. or..OM has "Something on her"

Tell her that NO MATTER WHAT "HAS" happened....you two will get by this..

I'm sorry your DD has to see this...but... believe one thing... if you DIDN'T let WW see her before the hearing... THAT would have cost you DEARLY tomorrow... you did well in letting her see DD ONLY if she asked....and you were there to wisk her away at the first sign of trouble...good job... all you could do under the circumstances...

Your WW has no remorse over hurting you at the moment... she thinks you DESERVE to suffer like she did.... (she'll change THAT tune some day!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> BUT.. she has GREAT remorse when she pulls the stuff she pulled on DD this weekend... it is a great fog lifter....especially when YOU are there calm and loving to take DD away to a safer place.

If the GA's report is VERY good slanted your way.. I agree with Mr. Wondering... get it over with...if it is questionable....let him continue if he can... I DOUBT WW can make it to another court date without coming home.... and OM will FLIP if this isn't settled soon......

That can only lead to more LBs on his part....BIG TIME!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

We know he's been trying to sabotage WW getting custody so he won't have to have "the little brat" looking RIGHT THROUGH him and messing up the little "trap" he's set for your poor WW...so... he's losing his mind too...
Taking cell phones away.... accusing you of "stealing" her car... etc...
OM is worried...if he wasn't... she'd have a cell phone... he KNOWS he's lost already... his only weapon is lying about the future... and blaming YOU for the unhappiness they are experiencing right now....

Anyway, you're doing great.... good luck tomorrow... GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

Dazed,

If you don't go to plan B and if you don't start protecting your daughter from the ravings of your W, you should lose custody of her. I really don't have a lot else to say. That poor girl need structure, discipline, and a lot of love. She is not getting any of that right now. It is YOUR job to provide it and you are a fool if you think your W will.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Update:
Wife and I talked all morning off and on over the phone and email.
She meet me at my office for the final hour leading up to court. She confessed many things that OM was doing to her that she did not like... Total control freak stuff.
She said that she had her bags packed to come home Saturday when he shown up over there unexpected and caught her. She said that he really laid the guilt on her thick.... Now saying that he lost his wife because of her, his job, and a big pay cut, he spent money on his apartment for her, bought her a cell phone, etc. etc...

She agreed with me that he treated her like a pet. She said all the stuff he would ask from her and she was looking for the term to discribe how she now felt about his control... I said, pet... She laughed and agreed with me... She said, yes... Just like a pet...

Okay- Enough drama...
She said she wants her life back.... She wants daughter back, and me back... She wants friends back, and to be able to live with out being stalked...
She asked me what she needs to do. I said, its your choice as usuall... She said I don't want to go to court. I said, okay... First we have to agree to stop the divorce in order to save us. She said, okay... Let's go to the court room and tell them no more. We are going home. I said, I will ask for the final bill from both lawyers...

To court we went... Wife told her lawyer to stop it... Her lawyer asked to speak with her in private... After a few minutes and i seen wife beginning to cry I stepped in and said can't we just get our final bill? What are we doing here?
The lawyer gave me some crap about not discussing the case with me.. I said, there is no case. Okay... We just need our final bill.

Wife said that lawyer kept trying to talk her out of it and to just go on in front of the judge and let him figure it out and to not stop now we are so close.
I said, see wife... Lawyers do divorce, we do marriage... She don't know you or me does she... She is here for a divorce even if we are not... It's okay wife... I know your scared, I am here for you.

We spent the next hour and half talking about things, OM how get ride of him... How to get her things moved home tonight...
Tonight I want to push for the no contact letter and at the first sign of him a RO... In fact I am calling the police right now to see what I have to do to get the RO in place.
I have to run... Wife will be off work very soon... I want to protect her on her way home...

Thank you all EVERYONE...
I ask for you to all pray for us as try to begin RECOVERY...

P.S. Wife said there are things she will miss about OM.. However, he has done many things that will make it easy to not miss him too...

PRAISE GOD and all of you....

Dazed, I pray this is it but you need to prepare as if it's another day in the life. Keep up your journals. Boundaries have got to be set IMMEDIATELY as far as no contact, counselling, etc.....

If'n y'all need some help either moving or gabbing give me a shout.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

NICE JOB R.O.Y.!!!! NOW GET YOUR BUTT OVER TO RECOVERY AND FIND A SEAT.... SO YOU TWO CAN GET TO WORK.... NICE JOB SOLDIER!!!
GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

Dazed~

I haven't been around for a while, but I just wanted you to know that I've still kept you and your family in my thoughts and prayers...Mr. Wondering has been keeping me updated. I'm really glad to hear your latest update...I'll pray even harder for you all tonight!!! This will still be a very long and difficult journey, but you know that God is on your side!

Many Blessings,

Mrs. Wondering

Dazed:

Good for you Dazed. The first thing I thought when I read your post was, "Winning Ugly"(as in winning over an ugly situation), then I reminded myself there are no winners from affairs, only survivors.

You now have a chance to recover your marriage but not without the roller coaster ride of your life. You will see what Withdrawal is all about and there is no escaping it. The good news is your wife has seen enough from the control freak and wants to rebuild and your good Plan A put you in the #1 position for her to come back too. Another probable MB success story.

Keep us posted.

TooSoon

Glad to hear about her change of heart Dazed. Now...keep in mind that at this point it's still WORDS. It's ACTIONS that truly speak to any changes she's had.

I have to admit personally that I have a concern that this happened RIGHT BEFORE walking into the court. And that you dropped the divorce on the spot...without first seeing ACTIONS from the wife indicating a true and final change. But...that is your choice my friend, and I sincerely hope that this is all proceeds the best way it can for you.

When you were talking about how to get rid of OM and get her stuff back, what kind of plans did you come up with? Obviously NC is the biggest issue here...so my thought would be that you either get her stuff back yourself, or have OM bring it by someplace and drop it off...because the odds are you're not going to want to be around him either for fear of a fight/lawsuit/etc... And clearly you do NOT want WW/FWW to be anywhere near this guy at all...if she HAS to go near him, it should ONLY be with you present.

You remain in my prayers friend...this sounds greatly promising, but given how it's gone so far, I still recommend a lot of caution on your part.

Remember too...recovery is at least as hard as getting to the point where you can start it.

Dazed~

As others have mentioned, your W is still going to have to go through the withdrawal process...this will be painful for you both. I've offered this before, but I wanted to make sure that you knew that the offer still stood, your wife is welcome to contact me at anytime...sometimes it's helpful to have someone who has walked in your shoes to listen without judgement...I'd be glad to be that ear for her if she would like...my email addy is in my signature line, again, anytime...

Best,

Mrs. W

Suzets guide to Withdrawal for BS and WS

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

Dazed,

I am so pleased that things seem to be going your way for a change. It's about time, huh? I am putting a little prayer in for you because now withdrawal begins and then recovery. None of it is easy. Not at all. Unfortunately, I have suffered through a few withdrawals and false recoveries with my WH. May you and your family find the process goes quickly and I hope that you both seek the help you will need to get through it.

God bless you both.And of course your sweet DD.
Loni

make sure she does not waffle.

i am praying this reconciliation from ww is for real...i worried b/c of your words of hers "I don't want to go to court"...afraid it is another wheedling and angle from her to avoid conflict and being labeled a bad mom by the law.

please read the advice on withdrawal.

make sure she is no longer a ww when returning to the family home...as your dd needs stability...lots of it...she's been thru the mill, dd has.

please keep thinking hat on.

ww must agree to nc, and write the letter and agree that an ro is best...and agree to come home immediately and not only get individual counseling but professional counseling with you...mb coaching...

she has issues...which can be helped by a pro (lashing out, rages, etc) but cannot overcome them alone ok? you need to get help for your whole family...maybe some counseling for dd too? your ww put everybody thru ******.

praying for a real recovery...

let the wife in front door...but make sure you kick the ws out the back door. that's the rules. if she wants to be wife, then we welcome her here..if she wants to come and post.

Dazed,

If she only took some minor stuff to the apartment then just leave it there. Do all you can to isolate her from the OM. I believe she truly wants to reconcile but she is so damaged after the last few months that she will be unsure and weak.

In any case go yourself rather than have your wife go. Do all you can to let some time pass before she starts seeing things from her “past life”

Dazed, where you at buddy? Let us know what's up......

Hugs, THoughts, & Prayers

Update:
Of course things are not easy. WW is taking baby steps towards our marriage right now.
She is unsure of herself and the going is very hard.

She has been in the house everynight this week. She has not yet agreed to no contact. I know many of you are all going to start moaning and groaning...
OM is not helping his cause... He is now playing the poor me guilt card on her...
He is missing work and telling her that he is going to kill himself. He now says that he lied about the real reason he divorced his wife.. Now he says it was all for WW. He spent his divorce money on his apartment to build a kitchen for her and paint and decorate for her, he took a pay cut and a ****** job for her, so on and so...
I have explained to her that he can not comfort him and she will only hurt herself and our family by trying. I have explained that until she goes no contact recovery has yet to begin. We have not yet started to heal..

What has she done?
1) Stopped the divorce Monday.
2) Told OM Monday that it was over and he took a bottle of pills and washed it down with cold medicine in front of her. Played Guilt card and made her feel sorry for him.
3) Monday night still came home with out bags and slept on the couch.
4) Tuesday OM kept calling her work until she agreed to go see him at 11AM. When she got there he tried to re-establish control freak boy tact by calling ME at work and making her tell me to never call OM's phone ever again. (The secret cell phone). He also tried to lay the law down on her and he really went off on her for coming home and trying to leave him.
After all this she called me immediately from work and told me everything and that she made a mistake going over there and she was sorry he called me and he was so mean and ugly to her... Again I told her that this is why there is a process to recovery... No contact is the only way you and I will have a chance to heal...
5) Tuesday night she came home. Tuesday at work OM kept right on calling WW. He missed work again and kept begging for her back and laying down the guilt trips. She even said that his sisters might even come beat her up for him..
6) Wednesday she was pretty much WW. Venom was flying at me most of the day and evening. At 10PM she left the house angery that none of her venom and babble could provoke me into anything negitive. She returned with a cloths basket, curling iron, belts, shoes, and toothbrush. Apparently all at OM's. He was really mean to her again and she was very humbled and looking to me for help once she returned home.
She said, she just will not understand that I have to go home. He does not understand and is so angry and keeps telling me I ruined his life. I know you are making steps to come home... I see this and it is very hard for you. You are making it harder buy letting him guilt you. No contact will stop this.

This morning really sucked for us.. I don't know how it will affect the big picture.
I woke early to wash some clothes for WW to wear to work. Things was going great until it was time for daughter to get up for school. She would not get out of bed. Was a huge spoil brat. After I spent some time tring to get daughter out of bed, wife gave it a try. She went in nice but daughter was very mean to her... Daughter said, leave me alone. Can't I just sleep. I said, Daughter.. Your mother told you to get up and you will not back talk her like that. Daughter says, so what about what mom wants. She has been acting like a freak for months now. WW was speechless... Colapsed on the floor and then said, I new this was a mistake... Why did I expect things to change. You still won't get out of bed. Same old thing.. He comes in here nice and lets you go back to sleep. Then you act horrible when your out of time and have to rush around and be late to everything. She left the room.
Daughter was absolutely horrible. She was just going to lay in the bed and try to ignore me. I had to pull off the blankets and pick her up and stand her on the floor to get her to move. It was not good. Daughter was now crying and mad that I would not just let her stay home. She was mad because she has already had two tardy's and did not want after school detention.
So, I got her up she was late to school. I walked her in the doors and informed the office that she was late and not having a good morning.

WW was very upset with all this. She has emailed me today saying that she don't know if she can do this. That me and daughter are making this worse for her to do.

I sent her an email back telling her that we need to let daughter know that you are coming home and re-assure her that we are together. She needs to know we have a plan to be a family. She is in the dark about what we are doing. Basically let WW know that daughter needs to know that we are together and will be working to stay that way.

Also, let WW know that she has not yet finished what needs to be done.

This is what I am doing.
WW must be ready to end this addiction to make it stick right? She is still making small steps home... I believe she will most likely need to come home in small steps just like the way she left.

BTW~ Mrs. Wonderings...
I just now sent the 31 reasons to end an affair to WW. She read it Tuesday and again yesterday... That is an awesome booklet... You know I have had that since you sent that to me several months ago... The timing just seemed right to use it now... THANK YOU!

WW wants to be home, but still wants to let OM down easy. We all know that will not happen. She must agree to NO CONTACT VERY SOON.

This is some what a delicate situation. OM has pushed her back to me because of his ulitmatims and control tact. It is not so easy for me to use the same methods to get her write a NC letter against her will. Just like when OM made her call me against her will... She immediately called me to confirm that was not her idea and she was hurt that he made her do that.
I will not back down from requiring NC, or counseling for the family and an IC for her anger management issues.
I just don't believe you can beat and addict into being sober with out the desire to accept the help to do it.

We now have about half of her stuff back in the house.

This is the way I see it as my friend put it to...
She is now on my side of the fence and the best OM can do is get up back up on the fence then back down on my side. She is no longer going to his side of the fence. I just need to get closure on this so there is no fence to get back up onto.

My plan is to get her back in the water and then slowly turn up the heat.

As stated in the 31 reasons to end and affair book... Only 20% of spouses end an affair in an explosion and run home. 80% end over time and countless hours thinking and going back and fourth.
Although WW has came a long way back towards my side, it has not yet exploded for her..
I am still negociating her return. Yes, she is in the house and it may or may not be great on daughter. However, it does mean a lot to both of them to be near each other.
Last night WW spent the entire evening after work with daughter. Daughter said, she really enjoyed her time with her mom. WW needs this mother daughter bonding I feel. This helps her see that she should be home and be her mother.

I think in the grand scheme of things daughter lashing out at her this morning will help WW understand that daughter is hurt by what has happened and her relationship with daughter is damaged and WW must prove herself to earn the title of mother back.

As of now I know she is not yet 100% committed to the marriage. However, OM has damaged himself beyond repair by his actions. WW has even told me that what he has done to her will not make it so hard to forget him. She packed her bags to come home over the week end when OM caught her and read her the riot act.
He now is addmitting to lieing to her about leaving his wife for her... He is now pulling out guilt cards on her that she is not liking.
She did stop the divorce which pretty much signals the end of OM...
I have to a couple of things to focus on.
1) NO CONTACT WHAT SO EVER...
2) AGREE TO PFS & PFA.. Protection from STALKING & ABUSE.
This has teeth in it where RO's do not. The local police explained this to me Monday... The RO must be set up by a lawyer and takes time and money. Then when OM violates he will have to go to court to argue it.
PFS & PFA's are written by the cleark of the district court and served to the OM that day. Then if he violates by calling or coming with in a predetermined distance, we call the police he goes to jail... Teeth is sharp with this...

WW agreeing to this indicates her committment to our marriage.

3) Agree to marriage counsel to help her understand withdrawl and recovery.

4) Agree to family counsel for both of us and IC for her anger.

Dazed,

You have made some suppositions which I do not agree with. But I do not have time right this second to go into it. I will be back on later.

But, suffice it to say...she should have never come home without a NC letter to OM and NC is established. The court stuff should have never been stopped until this happened.

Without NC, you are dooming her chances. Baby steps?? Tha tis for when you start recovery. Recovery happens after withdrawal. Withdrawal happens after NC. she cant make babysteps until she does the first two steps.

She may not LIKE OM right now, but she is still addicted to him. ONLY NC can start to get her away from that.

Until she does that...all the rest of this is just more of the same.

In His arms.

Dazed-

First, on dealing with your daughter. Honestly, you need to flat point out to your wife that YOU SUPPORTED HER in this. Your wife tried, your DD got foolish, and YOU SUPPORTED YOUR WIFE. Tell her that point blank...things have changed...you didn't have to do this alone anymore. This time, Dazed was right there with you ASSISTING you...not ignoring the situation or working against you. I had to do the same with my wife when she returned home too. I too had problems with my DD who was thoroughly hurt and disrespectful to her mom. Good job in not letting her get away with that...now just make sure that your WW understands that the issue here isn't YOU...and that the TWO of you can deal with it.


On NC:

I agree that it's usually a long drawn out process that causes the WS to return. But...what you're not seeing here is that you've already GONE through a long drawn out process.

Additionally, you're right it does take time for the NC to stick. BUT...at this point, you've never truly made that a REQUIREMENT for your wife to meet. She's not attempted it at all up to now. Normal process is that NC is requested and then established...and then either the WS or the OP slip up, contact is resumed, caught by the BS, and ended again. A confrontation typically takes place at each time NC is broken.

No confrontation on NC has been made at all at this point. Your wife hasn't taken any steps in this direction, and you've not set expectations for her yet. She's likely to make this into a HUGE issue...so bluntly, you need to get this started up front. Like as soon as you possibly can.

This is why everyone says this should have been clearly a show stopper to her at the time she moved BACK.

Give some thought to this. Realize that the reason it takes so long to accomplish is because it's hard WORK...but putting off starting it is just going to delay your REAL recovery.