Thanks Owl-
Harley says that her affair is dead and it's just a matter off running the time of the clock.
He says my plan A has worked very well. She is home but she is an addict.

She is still addicted to the feeling combined with the abuse she has been subjected to by OM. This is why he says to be careful with demands and love busters.

He says that time will blow this guy up even worse. He says as she misses each one of his drop dead dates he becomes more controlling. Each day this goes on the more he will blow up. He is a control freak and can't stand NOT having complete control.
If I take his approach, I kind of validate him while making myself look less attractive.

I am by no means trying to argue with any one on here. I am just stating to you what Harley said to do.

LOL...no one here arguing friend!

It sounds to me as though the OM has made some LB's...but it also sounds to me like the A has resumed based on what you've described in your last few posts. You might email some of these to SH and see what he makes of them. I don't think the A is over now, based on the fog, abusive comments made by your WW, and her recent changes (again!) in attitude.

Sunday Morning:

WW has been missing now sine 4:45PM Friday.
As of yesterday at 11:45AM OM is also missing. They must be in her car. His truck and work car is both at his apartment.
I called the police yesterday morning and had an officer look for her. The police went over to OM's apartment, her apartment, her work place, and did not find any one. They also called his cell phone and got no answer.
WW told me that last Friday he was waiting for her out side of work and wanted to talk to her in his car. When she got in he locked the doors and drove off. Told her that she belongs to him and she can't go back home. He offered to take her out of town for the week end.
I am assuming she took him up on this offer this week end.
Knowing he is an obsessed sicko and she is an addict, I am worried about her. However, I am pretty sure that she will surface this afternoon or tonight.

It appears to me that I can chalk this up as a false recovery attempt.
I am really struggling to figure out how to handle this.
Obviously me and daughter are very hurt by her lack of effort towards the marriage and family, then to blow off the entire week end with OM....

Basically nothing has changed. She never ended the affair. Never once tried or committed herself to our marriage or family.
My MIL called OM's mother again. Exposed the fact that WW stopped the divorce and went home to work on the marrige two weeks ago. OM's mom was in shock. Accused MIL of lieing. OM's mom said that the two of them was just here Wednesday night for dinner.
MIL said, well there is a lot you don't know about my daughter. She is sick. She needs help. My SIL is a good man and he has treated her very good. He is trying to help her but your son will not leave them alone. OM's mom said, well some one here is a liar. Your daughter told me that your SIL was a horrible man and I told her she should have divorced him years ago.
MIL said, I bet you did not know that this is not my daughters first affair either did you... She had an affair with a married man at one of her other jobs too. That man had to go to California with his wife to save his marriage.
My daughter went home two weeks ago to save her marriage that your son has torn up.
OM's mother said, why are you telling me this. MIL says, because it's time you know the truth about what is going on here and I love my daughter and want to help her.

So if OM and WW plan to attend Sunday dinner at OM's parents today, they will be in for a surprise.

I am just not sure of the right thing to do.
Calling the police back and issuing a missing persons report is a thought. If she really was in danger and I did nothing. That would be horrible.
On the other hand, the police will have a documented record of her and him not being accounted for.

Friday morning WW had a huge fight with daughter. My friend thinks that WW probably staged the argument Friday so she could go through with OM's week end plan.
WW is using Friday morning as her reason to say this is not working. Friday she wanted me to agree that she sould go back to her apartment and agree that we just will not work out and she is done.

To me nothing has changed. She appears to be back off the fence and in his corner again. The affair never ended. There was never no contact. No couseling. No committment, no effort trying.
She did stop the divorce, she did move back home, she told me things about OM and she did try to end it with OM.
She wanted to let him down easy and not shut the door. Her way failed once again.
Now her relationship with OM was really hurt by him love busting and trying to kill himself and her leaving him and coming home.
Are these wounds terminal for them? My friend thinks so. Steve Harley also thinks so. This is why he says to keep going and not demand or love bust. The clock is on my side.
Times like these I have a hard time believing that to be true.

Not sure what to do from here....

PLAN B for the sake of you and your DD.

SH advise you to stay in Plan A...

I would not suggest knowing better than he does but I truly believe he did not foresee this. Of possible consult him ASAP and ask whether Plan A still applies.

I know YOU can accept this abuse longer. This is nothing other than abuse. But can your family (you and DD) do so? I am intentionally not including WW in your family. Sure she is welcome back but she must want it. But is your family screaming for Plan B?

Is it possible your WW trusts you will take her back? She has done a number of outrageous things so far and you have so far stuck to Plan A.

Wait until tomorrow for further action. If she does not report back by noon tomorrow contact the police. Especially if OM is still missing. Decide after talking to her what your next step should be but I am very much afraid the time for Plan B has come.

Dazed:

The fact the OM asked her to go away for the weekend is probably what happened. I don't think you should aggrivate the situation worse by putting out a missing person alert. If she doesn't show up this evening, that changes things, and maybe then it would be appropriate.

Eventually, you will tire of the abuse and put your foot down. When you do, you will make the difficult decisions to be firm with her and force NC, to give her ultimadum, you or the OM but not both, or to go into Plan B or D.

Sorry, she continues to be put you thru he77. It is hard for mature love to compete with fantasy love since fantasy love is so exciting and so much fun. The problem is, it isn't real.

TooSoon

this is almost again to painful for me to read.

again, your ww was NOT ALLOWED TO FEEL THE FALLOUT OF HER ACTIONS.

I feel her whole false recovery was due to the fact she was NOT ALLOWED TO FACE THE MUSIC IN COURT...why? she kept saying that she wanted to stop the divorce in COURT OF ALL PLACES...WAITED TILL LAST MINUTE TO DO SO.

I have alot going on in my house today...something wrong w/water heater, etc.

other stuff too.

but I am gonna say this. she's gotten MORE MORE MORE DESTRUCTIVE and is HURTING YOUR DD SOOOO MUCH...I so hurt for that little girl being in a home where there is a totally unstable mom who comes and goes as she pleases...scaring the dd so much by just disappearing after faking an arguement.

she is completely a ws.

she is not your w.

she has not done ONE OUNCE OF RECOVERY..not one ounce. and she was NOT ALLOWED TO FACE THE MUSIC EITHER.

how does a ww or ws turn around? by having their world crash down around them...around them.

you didn't do it dazed..you did a great plan a...but it went on a little too long imho...she now thinks she can do whatever she wants apparently.

and it is TOTALLY DAMAGING TO YOUR DD.

again, I am now worried best about your dd. she is THE FOCUS NOW..NOT YOUR CRAZY WW.

SORRY IT'S THE TRUTH. I may disagree wtih advice given you...even if it is professional..but I wonder if Steve knows the EXTENT OF THE EMOTIONAL ABUSE YOUR WW HAS BROUGHT UPON YOUR DD...

she's outta control and it's harming your dd...HARMING YOUR DD...

time to reframe AND REFOCUS OK? FOCUS ON YOUR CHILD. YOU ARE A PARENT FIRST...YOUR WACKY WW NEEDS TO FACE THE RESULTS OF HER ACTIONS...

My favorite quote again: "the definition of INSANITY is DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING THE OUTCOME TO BE DIFFERENT"..Einstein.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE DIFFERENT DAZED?

also...do NOT believe ww is any harm. she is out being a ww. she is out having fun...most likely could spin this any way. eating dinner with om parents? no...it's a weekend off together.

my xh used to do same thing when he wanted out of house at the end...he'd stage a huge fight and then say "I'm leaving" and bring an overnight bag...and go shack up with ow.

get the picture? PROTECT YOUR DD NOW...NO MORE HALFWAY JOBS.

Dazed,

I know you don't want to hear "you shouldve's."

But you should not have stopped the divorce proceedings without a NC letter. I don't think she needed more plan A, as she needed more plan B.

After this weekend trip she has taken with OM, I have a deep inner feeling that you have lost her forever now Dazed.

I'm sorry for you and DD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Blessings,
Lady

I agree, your WW behavior is damaging to your DD. I think you've been coddling your WW instead of being as firm as you need to be especially to protect your DD from the abuse and instability of her mother.

I wish you could have taken the small window of time you did have and have had her speak with Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers herself. She really could use someone other than you to try and cut through the fog a bit and get through to her.

I am afraid this is going to have to be played all the way out for her to have her fantasy bubble burst. She will have to depend on OM to meet all of her needs for a while. I could be wrong...I just hope Steve Harley has a full picture of just how abusive your WW has been.

Please do your very best to protect your DD. #1 Priority.
Sometimes I think your plan A has been too enabling. You are too quick to be the doormat and allowing her to eat cake.

Don't get discouraged Dazed... Steve just told you 2 days ago that your Plan "A" was working... continue with Plan "A" (if you can) just get your DD away from the line of fire... This Affair is pretty much DEAD... it is gasping for air on it's last breath.
The "illusion" of love has been shattered by her coming home again and again. Broken for her... and for OM... they are living in the past right now... trying to regain the "magic" of the beginning... they won't even come close..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can't wait until OM finds out she stopped the D...AGAIN!!!! Because I'd bet dollars to donuts that she never told him... wait until OM's mother tells him.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

That should bring the final chapter... then you two can start REAL recovery....

Your MIL is a GREAT partner and will help in the long run.. she's like a pit bull... and you have SIL waiting in the wings to help.... stay strong....

I agree with Harley.... no demands.....no LBs (like calling the cops that will just join THEM together) stay on course and if your love bank is getting low, THEN think about Plan "B"
Plan "B" won't protect your DD remember? WW will STILL get to see her and she will act the SAME without YOU there to protect DD.....

Plan "B" will leave your DD exposed to the same if not MORE abuse and you being "dark" you won't be able to do a DARN thing to protect her....

Let GOD punish your WW and drag her to her knees....or... let God soften her heart again to your Marriage....Plan "B" is for moving on.... it's not a trick to get her back.... when YOU don't have much love left....go to "B" until then you need to PROTECT YOUR DD!!

YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB!! YOU ARE STRONG AND STEADY...
I predict YOUR Plan "A" will turn this board around to where it was 6 + years ago when I arrived... loving... forgiving....encouraging.... plan "A" the WS not punish, drag'm down and see them "Hit Rock Bottom" and have them CRAWL back broken and destroyed and the humble servant of the BS....forever "paying" for a mistake that satan took them threw the ringer with....

Loving, forgiving, kind... a couple of Plan "B's" worked (totally luck or simply God's will IN SPITE of the wrong understanding of Plan "B") and this place is Plan "B" city.....
Once you recover YOUR marriage.... maybe it will be like the "old" days.. where Plan "A" worked MUCH more than I've heard here recently...because this is "B" city now!!

If MM is the Plan "B" czar... then DAZED will be the Plan "A" Czar!!! Yeah!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

"""""Don't get discouraged Dazed... Steve just told you 2 days ago that your Plan "A" was working... continue with Plan "A" (if you can) just get your DD away from the line of fire... This Affair is pretty much DEAD... it is gasping for air on it's last breath.
The "illusion" of love has been shattered by her coming home again and again. Broken for her... and for OM... they are living in the past right now... trying to regain the "magic" of the beginning... they won't even come close....""""

How is he supposed not to be discouraged???

I think a lot of people here puts to much faith in MR Harley, sometimes... Is time to put down the foot,and being the boring adult:-) and leave here to here own devices...

You have DD to think of.She needs stability now more then ever.And your WW at present cant be that .

You have done so much my friend, more then you should have to do...Start taking care of your self and DD .And things will work out you will see...Becuse in the end all of this PLAN A´ing can leave a wery bitter taste,that can be very hard to swollow......

I think calling the police to report her missing was exactly the right thing to do. The OM has shown himself to be very unstable and WW isn't exactly thinking and acting clearly either. I don't want to fear-monger, but while many affairs don't lead to murder, many murders began as affairs. When it comes to the safety of your family, frankly concern for lovebusters should start heading down the list of importance. I would be incredibly fearful for her safety.

mouseling

Dazed,

If WW has not, yet, returned home, report her as a missing person. You need to do this for 2 reasons - one short term and one long term. First, OM sounds very unstable. What if he has forced WW to go with him against her will? What if she is in danger? Now, secondly, with a vision to strategy, a missing persons report will help you in any divorce/custody proceeding if you ever get to that point. It will show how much WW wants to spend time with DD - enough to run away for a weekend without even telling her.

Regards,

BB

Dazed,

I agree with B/B, file a missing persons report NOW. This man is unstable and your W is as well. I think you really need to talk to SH again. And I think you need to speak to an attorney about obtaining full custody of your daughter for the time being.

Your marriage is NOT more important that your daughter given what is going on. You are not protecting your daughter from this mess, and until your W leaves this affair, your daughter is going to take a beating and how you can stand by and play plan A while she takes this beating is beyond me.

I am all for saving marriages, but frankly your W need serious counseling before she should be around you or your daughter. Since she won't do that, get her out of your life and more importantly out of your daughters life. Running off with OM and telling no one where they are is NOT being a parent, never mind a spouse.

I don't know who to more mad at your W or YOU, for what you are allowing to happen to your daughter.

Get on the phone to Harley AND a lawyer tomorrow and discuss what this is doing to your daughter and what you can do about it. Meanwhile if your W is NOT back report her missing.

God Bless you and more importantly your daughter.

JL

Just Learning:

I am gonna be honest here and admit that I have become extremely soured with this board and have been actively trying to avoid posting. I however lacked the strength to refrain from this post.

I find it very interesting that NOT one person (long time poster) had a thing to say about PLEASE HELPS very empassioned call for continued PLAN A and a return to the meaning of this board to how it "used to be". How about even a great post Frank ! But nothing.

However, what I think is also even more interesting is the continued calls for Dazed to call "Steve Harley.....call Steve"....yet Dazed just talked to Steve literally 5 days ago, and he was instructed to CONTINUE PLAN A, don't make any demands, be compassionate....encouraged that the affair is fizzling.....YET, when this False RECOVERY VERY PREDICTABLY happens (allowing the WW back with NO PLAN, NO COMMITMENT, NOTHING......) people are outraged and shocked. Are we really supposed to believe that Steve didn't see this coming? Yet, if Dazed comes back tommorrow and says he called Steve and was told to continue Plan A and be the lighthouse and help the WW thru the addiction....NOONE will question it....they will just say, "Steve's the master, listen to him....." SO, why question it now today! You saw this coming, I saw this coming and Steve Harley certainly had to KNOW this was going to likely happen. With is experience, how could he not?

Steve is the master, he knows what he is doing. I agree, and I don't question that for even one New York minute...SO if a moron like me (who admittedly doesn't know the first thing about recovering a marriage) could so very easily predict this would happen, then there is NO WAY that Mr Harley didn't also think this. I think it is an IMPOSSIBILITY that Steve didn't know this would happen.

Yet, every post in response (Except that of Franks) to this news has been to "call Steve"....go "Plan B"......So, I ask....what will you say if Dazed comes back tommorrow and says that he was told to continue PLan A........?

You know what we will hear......? "Yeah, Steve's right, he is the master"...so I ask, why question this even now. Dazed wife's MO has been more than evident througout this situation. What is different now that requires a reexamination of the "plan"? I don't get it. I happen to think Please Help's empassioned post is right on.....FOR THIS CASE. At least he stays consistent with his posts and delusion.

This situation is BEYOND human comprehension, yet, this advice to continue to PLan A is like the big white elephant in the corner of the room. This is just more of the same. I don't quite get where all the outrage is coming from?

I love the qualifiers of advice here...

"Far be it from me to disagree with Steve Harley, and he is the expert"..."but maybe you should call Steve". Yet when Dazed comes back and says that he was told to continue PLan A, there will be silence. and then "yeah, Dazed, you are strong, your amazing....your my hero". Is it just ME, that only sees this predictable pattern here. Somehow, someway, we have become conditioned to test our manhood by seeing who can stay in the ring long enough and suffer intolerable abuse....somehow, someway, this is "strong"...this is "figthing" for what is right?

JL, I happen to hold you in extremely high regard, and nearly 99% find myself shaking my head "Yes" when I read your posts....so help me here....I am almost begging you here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Help me understand why is it that people can even still THINK there is a logical reason to call Steve now AFTER THIS precictably happened. You yourself said "call Steve".....Why? What is it that you think needs to be said by Steve to Dazed ( that is anything other than COMPLETELY removing himself from this incomprehensible cesspool of filth) that would help Daze and his daugther here.....After reading this thread and some other threads with very PREDICTABLE outcomes, I have to agree with many posters who have questioned my role here and why I am here. I think now, they are correct. I don't "get it"...there is no way I ever will. I think I am really ok with that now.

So, JL, I ask you this on this thread, but selfishly admit I want to your thoughts on this for myself (as I will openly admit that this thread LONG ago stopped being about self esteem, self love and decency--and more about living in the dysfunction and living desperately) see if you understand my frustrations and can help me understand this lunacy.

I can't literally stomach the denial going on anymore. Feel free to email me. I don't really care to flog this thread even more than has been done, but sincerely want your input.

Thanks in advance

Lem

Lemonman, I mostly avoid this thread because it is so painful. I feel very strongly that dazed needs to put the safety of his DD first above all else. IMHO, that means moving to plan B immediately and getting full custody of his DD. I would ask for supervised visitation with WW until a counselor clears her to be with her DD again. I feel your frustration and share it with you.

I followed this thread since the beginning, and honestly its time to stick a fork in this one. How much is too much? I get that is is a save your marriage at all cost crowd, but who would want this woman back after the crap she's done for the past few months. Time to move on Dazed...

Lem,

Well, I think you can tell I am very very conflicted about this thread. I recommended Dazed call SH Monday, because leaving Dazed and his D for a weekend without at least saying where is putting his daughter if not Dazed into a painful situation that should NOT be tolerated.

It is my hope that SH will finally say what most of us want to say. He is after all Dazed counselor, I am not. I also hope that a lawyer will finally talk some sense into Dazed about his status with respect to his daughter.

The girl has problems, she is defying them, doesn't want to go school, if she is in fact going, and clearly the reasons for these problems rests with this marriage and I THINK with Dazed's lack of response to the disrespect and lies not only being told him but being rubbed into his and his daughters face by actions.

He may and probably can deal with these actions, but the child???? I don't think so. I am hoping that Dazed is expressing to SH what this is doing to his daughter. She cannot and should NOT be subjected to what is going on right now. Hence my comments about the lawyers.

Frankly, I have butted into this thread several times and regret doing it. Why? I can hardly stand what is going on, and YES it is VERY predictable. I am with you on that. There was no recovery, there never was any attempt at recovery on her part. She may be caught up in something she does NOT want to be, but she is just the same.

I cannot stand it either. And this will be my last post on this thread because I do feel as you do. The ONLY positive thing I could bring myself to tell him was to recontact SH AND contact a lawyer.

Lem, I don't know much either, but I do know he is not running his life like I would run it for him. Actually, few people do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for asking, and I think you and I see this pretty much the same way.

God Bless,

JL

I wanted to add to the discussion between Lemonman and JL, as I see this problem with comprehending this coming directly from Dazed.

Why do I say this? So many times, we have asked Dazed if he talked to Steve about his daughter. What he should do about his daughter, to protect his daughter? I looked quickly back over the posts, and I really am having a hard time finding once where Dazed says: "Yes, I talked to Steve...and he said to...blah, blah, blah." Now, maybe Dazed has talked about his daughter with Steve. And told Steve everything going on with her. And maybe Steve has taken this into account into his counseling.

Or maybe he has told Steve, but has ignored so far the advice Steve has given concerning his daughter. Or, maybe he hasnt really discussed the daughter issue with Steve to the extent needed.

The issue here, the answer to your question Lemonman, is that Dazed has not been forthcoming with the answers to these questions. So posters here are stuck with trying to fill in the pieces of SH's advice to Dazed. We assume that Dazed didnt talk to Steve about his daughter, or didnt mention all of this stuff with her. So, posters tell Dazed "Call him again. Find out what he says now about your daughter."

On the level of his marriage and doing the Plan A thing, he has been very good in following Steve's advice and MB principles. Very good!! But, what we are all pained about is his daughter...and not knowing what the admitted expert says about this makes many of us not understand what is or should be done in regards to his daughter.

Dazed....

If we are going to be here for you and help you, then we also need to know what Steve advises concerning your daughter. On how SH says you should protect her and help her. If you havent talked to him in depth about this...then call him immediately! If you have, then start writing here so we can all get on the same sheet of music with you.

You are doing great at Plan A! But without all of the info, all we can see is that you are not doing well in protecting your daughter.

So please educate us so we might continue to help.

In His arms.