I need some help.

My best friend growing up has turned into an agnostic. We grew up in a small town in North Carolina in the Pres. church. Billy Graham was a good friend to both of our families and used to come to our church often. Now it seems that he has lost his faith.

I told him several years back that I was going to try to find something for him to read to help lead him back. I haven't done a good job finding (or even looking) for it.

Some friend I am, eh?

Anyway I'd like to ask all of you, especially those of stong faith, for help.

Robert is a very logic driven man. He's an architect and logic is his native language.

What I'd like to find is a book, or article, (nothing too weighty please - he is a man) that might incorporate logic thinking in the basis of belief.

I know I haven't provided many details, sorry...

I'm a man!

If you need to know more please ask.

Otherwise, I thank you all in advance for your help.

Have a groovy day!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Robby,

OK, this isn't my strongest subject, but I heard a story on Dr Laura years ago that has struck me rather profoundly. Perhaps that's an indication that it has impact on those of us of weak faith? I'll attempt to recount it as well as I can.

An avowed athiest enjoyed spirited debates with a local rabbi on the existance of God. One day he spotted a beautifully and intricately drawn scroll on the rabbi's desk. It was a true work of art, finely made. The athiest asked the rabbi where he got it.

The rabbi told him. "Oh, that's a very interesting story. Last night before I left the office, I unrolled this scroll with the intention of copying some passages to it. I closed up my office and went home. Apparently, I locked the cat in here. The cat knocked over some ink while playing and it splattered all over this scroll. Happily enough, the ink fell in a pattern that created this lovely transcript in Hebrew of a debate between two scholars."

The athiest started laughing and said, "You're pulling my leg. It's absolutely impossible that something that detailed and intricate could have been created by accident."

The rabbi replied, "Why not? You believe the entire universe was created in that manner."

I've got to look up the titles, but there are several by a former newsreporter and confirmed atheist who came to believe in the reality of God by the convincing evidence he found in his research on the subject. I'll post this when I get home and can look at one of the books. You'd be able to get them on Amazon.com.

t&l

Robby, I have not personally read these books but CS Lewis makes a good argument in the books of his I have read. This one is only 132 pages so might be ok for you friend to read C.S. Lewis's Dangerous Idea: In Defense of the Argument from Reason (Paperback) You might also recommend CS Lewis The ScrewTape Letters or Mere Christianity. God bless you in wanting to help your friend.

Robby

I have looked at this question myself many times as A2 is very close to being a agnostic right now..... except he leans more towards there being a God but not as religions portray.

According to our Arch Bishop he explained A2 attitude as not unusal due to his trumatic expriences in war.
An agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time.

So, are agnostics atheists?

No. An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not.
The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial.

The one thing I learned Robby is that you cannot educate a agnostic or an atheist.

They need to come to the conclusion themselves, just leave some books around and if they are interested they will look.

Its hard though isn't it? You want to run over and save them so to speak from turning away from God once & for all.

Good luck and I hope you have better success than I & the Arch Bishop have had to date.

I have read this book and think it would be wonderful for him. As a matter of fact this book was a pivotal factor in my Uncle choosing to believe......

CS lewis as noted...

also try a little non traditonal...seek out stories of modern day saints...many are/were very logical ...not so religious people exposed touched by God when they most least expected it...

no matter belief systems......stories of saints speak of every day people....often lost and turned from God....

often very logical...that find proof in every day miracles..........

and ironically are the last people on earth to view themselves as role models or the least bit saintly...

I think people would be surprised about their lives...and find many similarities...

ARK^^

Hi Robby!

Just a note about Lewis. I'm a huge fan, but there are times in _Mere Christianity_ where he weighs on men/women issues and can sound misogynistic. I'm able to enjoy the good and accept the "bad" for what it is, but it might provide a point of contention for your friend and result in the baby being tossed with the bathwater.

You might want to check out "Life of the Beloved" by Henri Nouwen. It was written with the express purpose of translating the spiritual life into a secular worldview. Not sure how effective it is, but his language is appealing and accessible.

G

Lee Strobel is a former athiest. He holds a Master of Studies in Law degree from Yale Law School and won awards as the legal editor of the Chicago Tribune. In his books, he applies his investigative reporter skills with a very analytical approach, which (I think) makes him an excellent choice for people who are facts-oriented themselves. He wrote The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, and The Case for a Creator. Read them yourself, and see what you think. That way you could recommend them as something you personally found interesting. My uncle became an atheist when he was young, and read the faith and Christ books before he died at 77. He found them compelling, and told another uncle he was leaning towards God again. Did he lean far enough before it was too late? I don't know, but the fact that he leaned at all is amazing.

t&l

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I will go through these and try to find something I think he will relate to.

Thanks again!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Robby

you may also want to try "Crossing the Tiber" by Stephen K Ray

He's been through the journey of believing in not much - agnostic in all but name - but he was raised in a devout, loving Baptist family.
His father was a deacon and led Bible studies. Steve himself was very involved in the Baptist Church as a teacher of Biblical studies, and he lectured on a wide range of topics.
He & his wife and were recieved into the Catholic Church on Pentecost Sunday in 1994.

He basically says that there is a mansion in heaven for all of us - as Christ told us - and we should not get too tied down in what works for each other ... of course I suspect portions of the Church are not exactly over thrilled on that point .... but the mainstream support his books regardless.

Its probably wise to give your friend a wide range of options .... the important thing is that he can find Christ again isnt it... the path may not be mine or yours but I think thats Ok with God. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />