I've been pondering, since reading Finally Learning's sad situation, and the pain she feels at her husband's reluctance to trust and bond with her again.

I am about to write something that is a very intimate part of my spiritual knowing. It isn't up for doctrinal debate, so please do not try to tell me where I'm misunderstanding the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ - I am simply sharing my witness to lend support, light and understanding to those who are trying to reconcile their marriage after the vows have been violated. This requires an imtimate understanding of Jesus' atonement for our sins.

We come to know Jesus Christ through his teachings, through parables, and through miracles of healing. Paul likens a marriage relationship to that of Jesus Christ and the Church. It is only when we fully understand what "atonement" means to us personally, that we understand what that relationship truly means.

When a man (or woman) violates his marriage covenant, he sins against the relationship. He removes his ability to fully heal that relationship, EVER. He becomes dependent upon an atonement - someone else must suffer for that sin; must feel the pain of that sin, and forgive and heal from that sin.

Jesus bore the weight of each and every sin committed by anyone and EVERYONE who ever lived and ever will live. That pain and agony was so great that it caused blood to drip from every pore. He was mortal, but also the literal Son of God - so He had the ability to survive such an ordeal. We do not have that "gift". So when we are asked to "atone" for the sins of a spouse against the marriage, we are being asked to suffer the weight of sin against us, and the relationship. The reason that so many recovering wayward spouses and their betrayed spouses struggle here, is that the atonement is not a singular event, nor was the sin against the marriage a singular event; but every thought, every plot, every action carried to it's conclusion was a sin against that marriage - and every thorn driven into the marriage by the wayward spouse must be felt and removed by the betrayed. So it cannot be forgiven once and then forgotten, moved on, and it's a bright new world. It is not an easy thing to be helpless while someone you love is suffering for something you did. We want that pain overwith NOW. And the pain just keeps on going and going....

Sometimes a betrayed spouse has been hurt to the point, where they just want peace - but there is no peace, no healing, until they step into the suffering AGAIN - and do the work to save a relationship that was broken by a sinner. It's not fair, it's not reasonable. But then... it's not reasonable that a perfect man suffered and died for my sins. But that is the way of perfect love. As sinners, we cannot save ourselves - salvation comes only through the Perfect Love of Jesus Christ - and a whole, healed relationship after sin comes only through true repentance of the sinner, and relying upon the love of his/her sweetheart. They may not be ready to do the work of atonement and recovery for quite some time. It takes time to come to a place of perfect love. Jesus spent His whole lifetime preparing to love us enough to get through an ordeal He knew would happen, He chose to happen, and even at the moment of atonement, He struggled and asked that the cup be removed, but nevertheless, did The Father's will and went through the process anyway.

When the marriage relationship is a covenant relationship, there is aid for the betrayed spouse - and the repenting wayward spouse - and that is Jesus Christ, Himself. The atonement was not intended to just relieve the suffering of the sinner - but those sinned against as well.

A thorough, searching study of the atonement would do well - the symbolism is unmistakable, when there is hope for a resurrection - life after pain!

Your post was beautifully written. Well done.

As far as FL's situation goes ....in my opinion her husband's reluctance is not only a direct result of her multiple infidelities and poor choices .... but equally a response to years of experiencing ~her~ impenetrable wall defending herself from real intimacy. A wall she created to survive some horrors of her youth. FL is trying to introduce an entirely new paradigm of interacting ... one where neither of them have had experience .

They are both flying blind into what they hope will be a better situation. She just happends to be motivated more than he at the moment. Someone has to lead ... might as well be her !!

My nickle's worth of Lucyesk side-walk psychoanalysis ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Excellent post KA. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regardless of one's affiliations, your post hits to the center of why M's have such a deep impact on our lives. Even many WS' have a hard time letting go. Why? Because real love goes deeper than any A ever will.

Evil acts can pretend to show love but can never truly have love.

Yet with 'faith, hope and love..... love never fails.' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mahalo,
L.

Can I get an Amen on that!!

Great post Orchid...so, so very true!!!

Dear Orchid,
What you said sums up every bs's or ws's story. "Real love goes deeper than any A ever will."
I hope you don't mind if I borrow your line.

Dear KA,
Your post was beautiful. It made a big impact on me.

It's good to recognize the enormity of the gift a betrayed spouse offers a wayward spouse, when they work so hard to recover a marriage that has been sinned against.

And it's also good for the repentent wayward spouse to understand the magnitude of the work that has to be done on their behalf, when a betrayed spouse stalls out and seems to not care about the marriage - they care - but they know the fire they are going to have to go through, and frankly, they may be weighing in their hearts if they have that much love, and if the wayward is going to take the gift of suffering and work to recover, only to betray and sin against the marriage again.

I think this realization today has made me more accutely aware of the magnitude of my Savior's suffering for my sins because I know if He suffered what I have suffered at the hands of my addicted husband, what does He feel when I offend my relationships - with my child, with my husband, with my parents, co-workers, clients, etc. I feel my love growing with the recognition that I no longer want to cause Jesus more suffering - and that He suffers, regardless of whether I receive the gift or not.

Thank you for posting this. You did a good job.

How are you and K doing?
I have been wondering.

SS

oops

Still Seeking - campfires are fine with me too - Graycloud doesn't deserve them all - (I saw your oops before but didn't get a chance to respond).

Regarding the Kayla/Kasey saga - some things change; some things still remain the same - the visual/emotional infidelity via SA still persists to plague us. However, that is where the down-side ends.

Three months ago, Kasey stepped into a process of recovery that I can only describe as totally remarkable. The man is in many ways transformed, and if anything can pull the addiction-beast out of his mind, this is it!

I can attest that I have personally lived through this atonement process with him and I can only say that Jesus keeps my heart softened toward Kasey that my love continues to be perfected through Him. I seem to be able to see the smallest changes and improvements and I don't take things for granted with him.

E-mail me - I'll forward it to Kasey and he can share with you himself what he's been through. He hasn't been on Marriage Builders for ages and I doubt he'll be back since he doesn't get on the internet much anymore.

Let me know if you need me to post my e-mail addy - I delete it pretty quick so you won't find it stored here.

Wow!!! Pep, you just said it so well. All I can say is wow! I hope those words gave FL hope.

KA, what a powerful post and testimony for BS's on here. Thank you.

KA
this is a wonderful post and I understand the softening of our heart. I think tahat is why I still have hope for mine. i have renewed my faith and am working on my relationship with him. At least he is a figure that won't fail me. I feel his strenght when called upon. I wish that it would cut through some of the WS that lurk here. We all know that some do even thought they won't admit it.

bump for FL

Kayla,
I have been worried for you guys. It is soooooo good to hear that K is doing better.

He needs to know he can do it, and you need the peace of mind.

Sent mail - if the address is still good.

Glad you like campfires too - I had 3 or 4 windows open, and pasted that into your thread instead of Grayclouds thread.
What can I say, it was late.

We have a campfire pit in our back yard. You guys come by Monday night, and we'll sing some songs, and roast some marshmellows. I can probably even find enough chairs for everyone.

Hi Faithful !!

SS

Kayla,

i did not see this thread until FF pointed it out to me in a thread of mine.

i'm not really sure what to say. your post is very moving. i thank you for sharing.

pep's take on my situation is kinda right on. i have been behind a wall most of my life. and it is very hard to change into that "new paradigm of interacting" we are both trying our best.

Measure success with a very fine tool .... perhaps not in feet and yards ... but maybe inches or centemeters ... movement in the more intimate direction is good ... and even then, it may be painful movement ... as in finding out what he thinks and feels may distress you somewhat ... but HEY .... it is intimacy when you know these things.

Just yesterday my H told me something I had done that really hurt his feelings ... and as much as I did not enjoy hearing this, it was an act of intimacy. I thanked him, and asked how to make things work better next time. But I have a tendency to make really similar errors over and over when it comes to dealing with him ... and this is not so good.

None of us are "good enough" at this ... all of us are evolving daily, not just you FL.

thanks pep. i was going to write more but since i had posted in my thread, i decided not to repeat myself here.

i just wanted to thank you for your continued encouragement.

i do believe i am getting better at openning up to him, but what i really want to be able to get better at is my ability to let him open up to me.

knowing how to respond when he opens up by telling me something that is hard to hear is hard!! thanks for your example. there have been times when i have responded well, thanked him for sharing and told him i am sorry. but there have also been other times when i retreat behind that wall of sadness and worry which does neither of us any good.

thanks again for the encouragement.

When in doubt of how to respond ... be quiet. Just listen. Be grateful for the sharing. Then give yourself time to digest the information and to put aside your initial emotional reaction.

For me, I have to conciously choose to forgive my H on a daily basis. Forgiveness is not a one time gift, but a process. I believe that is the difference between man and God. We lack the capacity to completely forgive in one fell swoop - IMO. Just an observation of mine.

OT - It was only after the birth of my first child and being confronted with the idea of what it would be like to lose my child was I even able to comprehend the awesomeness of the gift God gave to us in Jesus. I try to remember that even when things look very dark.

This came to me the hardest when I was watching The Passion Of The Christ ... the Mel Gibson movie ... I nearly crawled out of the theater.