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Low:
We are having the same discussion we were having on the Chemistry thread...
You are buying your wife's POV.
I do not think you need to do that..
I think you do not need to leave your bedroom..you need to stay there and talk to her about how she is rejecting you...
I hope she is not using Christianity as a justification for her hostility and coldness...I get that sense..I don't consider that Christian...I have another word for this....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Low, that thought about sensuality being "sinful" is something that is rampant with your wife. That notion is foreign to me and I am a Christian who hangs with other Christians. If your W is saying this to you, then she is using it as an excuse. Good grief, all you have to do is read the book of Solomon in the Bible to know that sex is supposed is to be sensual. OH BABY!
Honestly, you are blaming the wrong source, Low. I suspect that since you and the W don't connect on an emotional level that you can't connect on a sexual level. Women need to be motivated emotionally in order to respond sexually. Do you have His Needs, Her Needs? The chapter on SF explains this pretty well.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Mel and I, as usual, are on the same page.....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Low, I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't connect sexually with your W, because you don't connect emotionally. For women, sex is an emotional thing. For you, it is a physical thing. If you could ever resolve the emotional thing, the sex would follow. It's a fact. SF is a physical act. We can choose to assign emotional significance to it or not. I WANT to connect emotionally...not just physically. To bring over a conversation from another post...no, I don't "click" with my wife...there is no "chemistry". But given that I'm committed to this marriage, I have to find a way to create it.
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Third, if they discover an insurmountable SF issue, wouldn't it only make sense to find that out BEFORE you make a lifelong commitment? No, such issues can be resolved and work on within the safe and committed boundaries of a marriage. This is to say IF you are a believer and take God’s commandments and standards very seriously… And I do take them serious. God only allow and approve sex between two people if it takes place within the boundaries of marriage. I would counter that failure of couples to know each other well before they marry is the REAL reason you see so many marriage failures. Yes, failure of couples to know each other well on other areas than SF… Couples who know each other well on other areas and have learned to develop loyalty, love and respect for each other, won’t have any problems to handle or solve any problems on the area of sex after they have gotten married. Many people who engage in pre-marital sex, focus so much on the physical aspect of the relationship, that the other areas of the relationship stop to develop before they know each other good enough. This is one of the many dangers of pre-marital sex. I have told my daughters that they will not have my blessing to marry unless they participate in an extensive pre-marital training program. I expect that part of that program will address SF compatibility issues. I agree with this, but SF compatibility issues can be addressed without taking part in the sex act before marriage. Otherwise, I reckon this is one of those issues that we'll have to agree to disagree on. Agree! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Sex is so over rated... it gets you pregnant - well us girls - after a night out with your handsome husband that you TOTALLY forget you haven't taken the pill for about SOOOOOOOO long and then its nappies, and two hourly feeds and so on.. Am I over that!!! NAH Just pulling your leg!! With my husband it is a joy and a privledge and it means so much especially now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.
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Were you and/or your wife raised Catholic by chance? Nope. She - As southern protestant as you can get. Me - I wasn't raised in any particular faith. Uh Huh...well, I was raised Southern Baptist myself, and I can assure you that my H has never accused me of being prude in the SF department, quite the contrary, in fact... Low, it seems that your wife almost forbids you from being yourself...is that how you feel? I wonder if she realizes just how much she loses if that is the case... Mrs. Wondering
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Low, I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't connect sexually with your W, because you don't connect emotionally. For women, sex is an emotional thing. For you, it is a physical thing. If you could ever resolve the emotional thing, the sex would follow. It's a fact. SF is a physical act. We can choose to assign emotional significance to it or not. I WANT to connect emotionally...not just physically. For us, good sex is the RESULT of an emotional connection. Otherwise, it is just an annoying physical act no more interesting than washing our hair. We are not aroused by the physical effect, but by our emotions. Do you see what I mean? We don't get turned on by the physical unless we are emotionally aroused. Do you have HNHN? The chapter on SF explains this very well.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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low..
I had an affair because I desperately wanted to be vulnerable, cherished, and nurtured...as did the OW
I don't disagree with this need...
I don't disagree that these feelings occur and happen...
but they are only a reflection and false occurance of the truth...
you can only be vulnerable when the schedule allows...
got something planned with the family.....and OP "needs" to be nurtured....
guess what....
ain't gonna happen...
other things are planned...
but in an honest relationship there aren't logistical barriers with these type of things...
there are no constraints...
that what you seek so desperately can not be created and celebrated in to all aspects...
it is always kept seperate and can not and does not flourish to its full potential...
it remains a reflection...which feeds in to in my opinion
hyperbole....
it must be soooo magical
it must be sooo special
because of the great risk...yet the real risk is seeking such things in an honest open manner....
again I don't deny there aren't feel good aspects of an affair....
to me that is the easy part...
the sin in my opinion is not in any of the acts...
the sin is in the taking of the good parts.....and denying the real person outside of the logistics of an affair...
this type of hyperbole does not exist in marriages or even people seriously dating and open with everyone...
It intiensifies the sexual connection aspect by constraining it...
it must have more meaning if we work sooo hard to be together...
poppycock...
it appears to have more meaning to fill what is missing inside of you....
to rationalize the whole thing...........
it disregards the real needs of the people in real time...
and gobbles up eachother in false security...
and also no matter the needs the affair fills the paying of the piper is that it destroys the ability for it to exist with a spouse...
what you seek and try to obtain is exactly what stops it from occuring in reality...........
it becomes a vicious cycle of meeting needs on a temporary fix basis.........
and it reeks psychological damage on those that try....
ARK
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I guess ... I would like to ask a question:
To you personally, what (if anything) makes sex beautiful and special? How do you feel sex can elevate you spiritually? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> like herding cats around here ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
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[
Uh Huh...well, I was raised Southern Baptist myself, and I can assure you that my H has never accused me of being prude in the SF department, quite the contrary, in fact... Ditto, Mrs W, I too am a Southern Baptist. TODAY. And I am hot to trot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[
Uh Huh...well, I was raised Southern Baptist myself, and I can assure you that my H has never accused me of being prude in the SF department, quite the contrary, in fact... Ditto, Mrs W, I too am a Southern Baptist. TODAY. And I am hot to trot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Mel, I'm still Southern Baptist, it's just difficult to find here in Michigan...I miss my old church! Mrs. W P.S. Still "hot to trot" myself...never underestimate us SB chicks!
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Dunno if y'all missed it, or maybe no one has brought it up, but part of one of the earlier writings about sex in a Christian marriage includes: And that is how life is created. The beauty of a woman arouses a man to play the man, the strength of a man, offered tenderly to his woman, allows her to be beautiful, it brings life to her and to many. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but to me can't this be interpreted that any sex that does not and/or is not engaged in to "create life" (i.e. make a baby) is sinful?? So aren't any of us having SF but NOT for the purpose of procreating now sinners and doomed to an eternity in you-know-where? I'm with LO on this one. I see little harm in getting to know one another on an intimate level on all dimensions of the relationship (including SF issues) before tying the knot (provided of course that precautions are taken). I know of one guy who was, for all intents and purposes, ordered to marry his gf after her father found out they'd been "doing it." Forgive me for the stereotype, but the whole sitch involved very devout Catholics of the Italian persuasion, threats of harm if the orders weren't followed, etc. etc. Naturally, it ended in a D after very few years. Quite sad. Quite honestly, I tire of all the "Christian" teachings that seem to get shoved down people's throats at every turn. But that's just me.
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I get these ideas from being ejected from the bedroom for making the "wrong move". For saying the "wrong thing". I often feel like I have to watch my step lest I sully our holy union. I'd love to be able to be as uninhibited as you ladies seem to be, but I fear it would be very costly.
I have these ideas, because it has been my experience.
It's an extension of our general conflict...introduction of anything "different" implies inherent dissatisfaction with the "current state". Low, Is it possible in your marriage to discuss things in a open forum without assignment of meaning or assumption? I empathize with your words here, not because I am currently experiencing a like situation, but because I have in the past. It is not a great situation to be in. Is communication possible in your marriage in that form? Open discussion with no assumptions made? Tossing ideas out? That kind of thing? Ejection from the bedroom, in my opinion, is abusive. It is a horrid form of rejection, and for a reason where a high amount of vulnerablility might be attached. I would deal with this in the fashion of making a boundary. Showing or projecting this kind of rejection to my wife...well.. I couldn't imagine it. To me, it does not sound as though your wife accepts you. 100% accepts. I don't know, as I am not expert, but these are the thoughts and feelings I have. I would like to pat you on the back for taking a stand on the unpopular side of this issue, just simply because it is unpopular.
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I guess ... I would like to ask a question:
To you personally, what (if anything) makes sex beautiful and special? How do you feel sex can elevate you spiritually? Ok...to answer the question directly. I just don't know anymore. There's only been a few times in recent memory that I've felt this way about it... And you don't want to hear about those. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Low
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One thing that got me thinking about this topic is a thread started by an OW Rose77 on recovery board. Poor Rose .... really POOR POOR clueless ROSE ... she started having "swingers sex" with a married couple (others too I think ? ) and she and MM began to see each other, "fell for each other" it became an affair. MM abandoned his wife and son to be with the "swinging" girlfriend ... but did not 100% separate from his wifeypoo ... was still hanging around to have sex with wife because that was the only way to stop her "begging" ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Now ROSE is pissed off!!!! She is hurt and dismayed and outraged that "her MM" still talks to and worries about his wife, the mother of his son! (I kid you not!) Now here is Rose's problem, as I see it .... she took a man who chooses to "swing" with a group, stole him from his family ... and now complains that he's not inclined to be faithful to her. ... and she really cannot see why MB posters will not help her "fix" what is wrong with her situation !!! if it were not so sad, it would be comical. So that coupled with the radio show I listened to ignited my mind to explore what makes sex special ... So What makes sex special?
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Diversion from topic Low ... please re-read and really get into Passionate Marriage .... I really think you and Mrs. can become lovers of unparalleled depth ... but you must enter your crucible first!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Pepperband; 10/03/05 10:04 AM.
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Tell rose that if she plays with fire, she really shouldn't be all that upset about having a scorched a$$
I mean... you are what you eat. And she is eating poo.
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Tell rose that if she plays with fire, she really shouldn't be all that upset about having a scorched a$$
I mean... you are what you eat. And she is eating poo. ohhhhhhhhhhhh you can do better than that...
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