Hi Mel,
I would humbly suggest, that MANY don't like living with that solution, but ulitimately, it's the only one left.
What does one do then?
In my totally imperfect life, I do what ever is neccesary to somehow make it through to tomorrow.
sooner or later, there will be no tomorrow. I'm well aware of this. I implore my Lord to forgive me daily!!!!
You have no idea how much effort I put into 16 years of sobierty with noones's help but that of my Savior.
I ask Him daily to forgive me and all my weakness's and I am truly convinced that He does so....
It's the best I can do right now, so do not take offence as to where I am right now. It was NEVER meant to be so.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry, I would just point out that if one is still living in the problem, then they are not living in the solution. And that is perfectly alright, folks are free to choose their own lot in life. And hopefully they will accept that is their decision and own it.

sorry, you've all moved on a bit from Mel's original thought but I'd like to ask Pep, cos she probably sees this in her work. I read somewhere that some people who are in chronic pain through a physical illness (a fixable condition, say) find it very scarey to let go of it. It's their "friend" and when they become well they won't have that to fall back on as an excuse and they won't be "needy" anymore i.e. people won't sympathise and help as much and give them as much attention.

Do you think that falls into the same category as Mel was talking about?

Another possibility is that they are here as part of the process of finding a solution, but they are not here for a ready-made solution. The information they get here may be part of the solution they finally arrive at, but it may take some time.

There is a theory of how people change called Stages of Change, developed by Dr. James Procheska and his colleagues, who studied how people go about quitting smoking. They published several papers and ultimately a book called Changing for Good. They say there are five stages people go through in making a change in there lives: Pre-Contemplation, Contemplation, Preparation, Action, and Maintenance. If someone comes here in the precontemplation or contemplation stages, it could easily look as if they are not looking for a solution. See http://www.uri.edu/research/cprc/TTM/StagesOfChange.htm for more info.

And another possibility is that some are simply not looking for solutions because they like living in the problem. It's not difficult to recognize the difference between someone who is looking for solutions and one who is not. Many folks are slower to come to a solution, but that is not the same as someone who is not actively seeking solutions. I think it helps to recognize that and accept it in others.

I think it all comes down to what the poster/reader desires to get from the posts.

This is a discussion forum, we all discuss. We can, we may, offer advice, ramblings, because we've each "been there".

What is good to always remember, is although may of us have been dealt the same lethal blow, there isn't a single case that's identical to another.

No other BS, can be ME. No other WS can be my H. There are two people in my M, (Thank God), just as it's intended to be.

Advice, opinions, it's all the same.

And although times it does appear frustrating because someone we post to, just doesn't seem to "get it", I realize for many they "DO" get it, they just aren't in a position to take the steps necessary for change to be achieved.

I can completely understand financial hardship, babies, no where to go, no family around. These people aren't left with a lot of choices. I'd never deny the fact that even the whiniest of posters wants things to be different, but for whatever reason, they are stuck.

I am a .... knock me down, I'll pick myself up, dust myself off, and start all over again kind of person. Other people, aren't like that. There's the wallower, there's the analyzer, there's the wishful thinker, there's the steadfast prayer. We're all different, and that's what makes life so interesting.

bij, we all have our crosses to bear, but hopefully we take accountability for our choices and remember that if we choose to do nothing about it, we are not victims, but volunteers. And it's perfectly ok to be a volunteer. There is no law that says you must do something about your problems and we don't need to pretend that every person really does want change.

Hi Mel,

I love your advise, though I admit to rarely acting on it. I can't explain why, maybe out of fear, or maybe right now I am just frozen in the moment. I truly want out of it, but I don't like the results. I guess it's a personality trait.

I come on here a lot and vent and ask for advise, but to be honest, most times I don't "fully" act on the advise. I try, but somehow while I'm trying to do it, something happens and changes my plan. I'm sorry if that is frustrating for you, please know that I value every word you have ever written to me and still do!! It means a lot and has helped me get thru this!! (Hopefully it won't stop)!

GTO

And ask someone else(ie; AA) to Fix YOUR problem, is presumptuous and hurtfull to a person who is already trying to recover from their own situation in life's wonderful little rollar-coaster.
Why would anyone do that unless it were totally selfish in the first place?
J

Can you clarify your point, Jerry? I am not following you. Thanks.

GT, you don't have to explain yourself to me. You're not obliged to follow any advice you get here and that is cool. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hope you are doing ok.

Mel,

Actually I feel that I should. I come on here seeking advise, sometimes specifically from you. I'm sure that it is frustrating sometimes when I seem to ignore what you say. I just wanted you to know that I never ignore it, I just have trouble actually following through.

You're a wonderful person and I value you.

Thanks for caring!

GTO

Okay, is this an example of what you are talking about? You have a friend who's in college, and she is complaining, "Wow! I'm so busy this semester! I have papers due in every class and I barely have time to eat, let alone sleep." So you make the obvious suggestion, "Why don't you drop out, then?" and she looks at you like you are nuts. Obviously, she has chosen college despite its drawbacks, and prefers living with the problems it creates to living with the problems being a dropout creates.

I think those are the situations in which it could be useful to apply the four "i's" that I mentioned earlier. You could give information, like "I know the college has a tutoring service and one thing they do is help you plan your time", or "I know there are papers for sale on the internet". You can offer inspiration, "Gosh, it sounds overwhelming but you've done three years already-one more to go and you'll have reached your goal", or "Don't give up now, we've been planning your graduation party". You can offer insight, "I notice sometimes when I complain about how much I have to do, it's because I need a compliment on how well I'm doing." (I wish I could remember the fourth one.)

elspeth, that's definitely not an example of what I mean at all. I gave an example in the initial post of this thread.

Amen. I was a slow learner. There is a big difference between a slow learner and a lifestyle.

Can I just say, it is very bad advice to suggest to a college student to buy a paper off the internet. Besides the obvious: they're cheating themselves of a real education, there's a less obvious fact that if they are caught they can be kicked out and then all their $$investment is down the drain.

It's my opinion that college-cheaters are very bad for our whole country because they go on to get jobs in government and corporations who are then cheated of a candidate who actually is well-educated, and their decisions can ultimately effect all of us, directly or indirectly.

It also cheats honest college students of their rightful place in the rankings.

There is a electronic paper-reader available to colleges now that can catch plagiarism by comparing to a large database of other college-submitted papers and published papers, making cheaters and cheating much more easily caught.

interesting to return to this board after a couple weeks off and find this thread...I've spent the past couple of weeks reading, visiting other boards and basically having a coming to God within myself.

As someone mentioned on here when I first appeared, I think it was Believer, be thankful that you are not married to him...and were those words ever correct.

I've learned over the past couple of weeks, that I lived in far more drama than most people should have to. I learned that my life was full and I mean FULL of toxic people. Done, with them all. Life is too short to be surrounded by people who are using you for their own selfish gain.

It takes two to tango when there is in A...that is my belief and I am sticking to it...somewhere there was something wrong in the R/M to have caused the A to begin with. Something weakened the system and the A happened. You can sit here whine, cry, be a victim and wait patiently and focus all your attention and anger on the WS and the OW or you can stand in front of the mirror and say WTH happened? Look deep into your soul, as I have done. I realized that all this time I didn't see it, until just recently.

Not only was he an A, HE was codependent on me, not me on him. I was very independent, I had my daughter, my house and my business but he wanted all of me...my undivided attention. He wanted to do everything together, sure it sounds blissful on the exterior, but people need to grow and they need to be individuals also.

I wanted him to get out, be with friends, find interests, find his way in the world. But he didn't have the strength to do it alone. He needed me to do it all for him. No he WANTED me to do it all for him. Even the last night when it all happened, he punished ME for sending him out alone to the tournament, because I had a birthday party/sleepover for my DD.

A couple of weeks ago, I began to see the light, he wanted to be friends...but friends to him right now is me still fixing things for him. He wanted to come back to work, he couldn't even do it. I didn't offer him work because I told him he had to find it himself I would just let him use the computer. Did he follow through, of course not. I wasn't handing him the work...he doesn't know how to get it himself.

I cut his safety net the other day right off...sent him a message telling him I had met someone else (I haven't but I knew it would work)...haven't heard a word from him since. Knowing him, as I do now, it sent him off the deep end. How could I? I loved him? I was always going to be there to pick up the pieces!! What is he going to do now? This is the life HE chose...not I. I choose to be happy and at peace with myself. NO MORE DRAMA!!!

Not anymore...this is not the man I love...there is no fog...this is him NOW...is this the man I want back in my life as he is today?...you can bet your sweet ars, NO!!! Will he ever be that man again, highly doubtful because of him being an A. Unless of course he sobers up, which I honestly do not see happening anytime soon.

I could sit here, be the victim also...play martyr and spend my days as I had been in the past wondering, waiting, trying to make sense of all the insanity and focusing all my draining energy on him and her and all the drama...but you know what, that's not going to do anything to help me and I can certainly not help him because he CHOOSES not to do anything to help himself...so I cut his lifeline off...face his own music, live this NEW life he has chosen, alone...without my emotional and financial support.

I want someone who loves me...good or bad...willing to work things through instead of running when things get tough. Enjoying the good times, living through the rough times. A partner who walks side by side with me through life. I'd rather spend all this time focusing on what I can do to make ME a better person than to sit around and worrying about his car being repossessed.

I'd like to thank Melody above everyone for waking me up (big hugs to my East Texas friend), Believer, Sally (for all the wonderful insight and new found friendship)...RedHat and all those who ever helped me through this process...I wish everyone the best in their lives...WHATEVER that may be.

That wasn't a serious suggestion. I guess I should have realized that some people would think it was.

Well said, Lisa! Glad to see ya back. I wondered where you were. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok, it is time for me to respond to this post as well because in responses to my own post I gathered that those who responded to me have made the assumption that I "like living as things are"..........I was told that I make excuses very well....that I will lose my H if I continue on the path that I am on...etc....

I told a story of how things were in my life. It was a very short story considering the people involved. There was no way in the amount of space that I typed the story that I could convey who I am or who my husband is or how we both think and feel.

This is not the only forum that I have visited, but I will say that this is the only one that made me feel judged for the decisions I have made and for the circumstances that I find myself in.....this is the only one that has made me feel that what is happening to me IS MY FAULT.

Every affair is NOT the same and the people involved are not the same....every affair is not commited for the same reason...SO THEREFORE THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL FIX FOR EVERY AFFAIR.......the solutions offered here will not work for everyone and I happen to believe that they will not work for me.

I do have a plan....I already have it in motion....you see I have to fix me before I can worry about fixing my marriage. After all it is all about me and my being "OK". I certainly have to love being who I am before I can give anything to anyone else. And I do have problems. And YES some of these problems are the root cause that my husband had an affair....But regardless if we stay married or divorce, I HAVE TO SURVIVE AND BE HAPPY....WITH OR WITHOUT HIM.

Another reason I have made "excuses" as to why I cannot or will not follow the "advice" I have been given is that I do not agree with them and since I do know my husband quite well, I find that they will only complicate the problems that we have....he will not see those things as me trying to save our marriage, but as me acting in anger.

My husband was not at all angry about the affair being exposed. My husband told me all of his feelings from the start...of course he didn't tell me all the details, but he told me enough. He is completely ok with honesty. He even told his own mother...so you see the exposing the affair thing isn't exactly the first step to end it for me...

But on the same note, I do wish that I had not told anyone about the affair and here is why.....

1. I want to make our marriage work. Now, if that does indeed happen, I have my family and friends looking at my H and thinking the most horrible things about him....things that I do not want people to think about the person that I love. No matter what I say or do from here on out, this affair will be in the back of their minds. I cannot undo the negative this has caused.

2. I have his family and friends thinking....wow she is just too forgiving. I would have kicked his butt out a long time ago....but man is he lucky....he gets to have his cake and eat it too....he can do this all he wants and she won't leave.

These are not good things to have people thinking.

I have had it thrown in my face on my original post..."if you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always got..." Well....to be quite honest, I have always done what the people here have advised me to do....and this is where it has gotten me....not where I want to be. I have changed my strategy....and to some degree it is working...one day at a time.

I want to point out also....my husband did not do anything to me. The affair was not about me. It was about him fulfilling the Emotional needs that he felt was lacking in our relationship. He fell in love. He did not do the affair to me...he did what he did for himself. It may be considedered selfish, but he needed something as do we all. It was never intended to hurt me. My husband does love me.

You may ask, why didn't he talk to me about his needs instead of having an affair? He did. I didn't listen or understand what he was saying. That is not his fault. It is one of the things I am fixing about me.

There is oh so much more I can say on this....but this post is already so long...and I am sure that I will be bashed for my way of thinking in this...but before you do....hear this....

I allowed my husband to see this site and my post and the post of others. He was appalled and told me that if I had acted the way I was advised to act....with malice in my heart....he would have packed and left....for the first time in a VERY long time my husband and I sat and talked for hours...I felt an extreme closeness to him....something that has been lacking.

So do not tell me that my way will lead me to a divorce....it may in the end...but not because what I did was wrong....it was just meant to be....I have to follow my own heart and do what I think is best for me and my child....not one of you lives in my skin and know me or my husband....your advice may help others and that is great, but think hard before you accuse someone of liking their lives the way they are just because they do not do as you say to do...it may not be the right way for them.