Thanks for your comments. I have feared the "no sex" talk for being the truth. I hope it is the case. My biggest fear at the moment is that she is in NC. Says she is. I can only hope and pray that is true.

Thanks so much. You guys are all so helpful and nice to even suggest things to me. I can't believe how much everyone cares.

Thanks much.

Mel,

I am so excited. I found the book HNHN last night. Actually my wife saw me looking for something in a nightstand (I think she thought I was snooping) and she asked me what I was looking for. I immediately told her the book and she told me where she thought it was. I started reading it yesterday afternoon. It seemed to make her a little uncomfortable. There she was reading her Oprah Magazine and I am reading HNHN. Anyway, I carried the book to bed and kept reading it. She asked me what I was reading and I replied just scanning it.

I did not allow her to bait me into an deep conversation about it. She seemed very curious almost.

She also asked about what I thought about our church service. I said I told her I thought it was pretty good. She mentioned she felt isolated at our church. I basically said, "I am sorry she feels that way. Hopefully that will change soon."

I say all the above for this. Without your guys input, Pepperband, BobPure, MelodyLane, believer, (i hope I did not leave anyone out) I would not have responded that way. I read in the book about how important it was for me to not LB ing.

I have a question. She is following the same (non affection) motif she was in 4 yrs ago. It eventually came back, but I can't remember if I continued to give her affection or not. I think I waited patiently for her move.

After reading last night, I am wondering if I should give her subtle affection as long as it does not get pushed away. Back scratching and massaging muscles, (it happened Sunday morning, she did not reject), hair brushing, occasoinal peck kiss goodbye and hello.

Your input please.

Please pray for a breakthrough. She picked up the book HNHN and began reading it today on her own. After work she said she was reading it and did not aggree with everything in it. I really did not comment much.

Later tonight she is reading it and writing down an bunch of stuff. I don't know what about. Please pray that I will say the right thing.

I am asking God for strength and guidance.

Don't get your hopes up, but this may be a very good sign. My WH was never interested enough to read any of the books (which were laying around the house) or read the stuff on this site. He just didn't care enough.

Sounds like you are doing fine. If you start going crazy, come here to vent. We understand.

waiting, you are on the right track. Look for opportunities to bond with by showing affection, without being too pushy.

Don't be surprised is she is looking for ammunition in HNHN to use against you and justify her affair. That is very common. If she does, then just ask her some open ended questions, don't lovebust and don't allow her to bait you into a fight. You are doing great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Waiting -

Hi! No advice coming from me, but just wanted to give my words of support. Keep coming here, you will get stronger and wiser. You have great advisors here.

My WH picked up Surviving An Affair & read some of it. Bad News. He said "It's a great Plan if you are willing to follow it."

Research and read all that you can here to learn how to equip yourself to fight this evil!

Kimberly
D-Day May 14th
DS, age 6
Married 13 years
WH left on Friday. Official Plan B starts tomorrow.

Thanks, Mel, believer, and kimberly

Your words have been encouraging and eye opening.

Right after my post last night I went upstairs and we folded some closes together. She had been reading the book and writing down some things. I could tell she wanted to talk but I did not bring anything up.

I showered etc... and got in bed, she was reading again. She started talking. Alot about what was in the book. Some she aggreed with and some she did not. Anyway, she asked me what I thought my 5 EN were. I told her I had not completed the questionaire, but I would try. She then asked me what I thought hers were.

Guess what. I only got 3 right and 2 of the 3, affection and sex she wants nothing to do with at the moment.

Anyway, we talked long about that and she started in on the fact that she maintains (while it was terribly wrong, she admits) the affair was a symptom of much issues that lingered for 20 yrs. I know that, but she just seems to want to talk about the past and says she just wants to stop hurting, etc... At that point it seemed the conversatoin started to become babble, so I had to shut my mind down or I was going crazy.

Saying things like - the booked really ticked her off. Said it was very sexist (she is not a "sexist" type women usually). Slanted one way for the women to do for the man type of stuff. I told her it was split equally down the middle in my opinion and she was only seeing it one way.

I continued to listen to her, but I tried not to take it personally. It was hard though.

This morning she said she did not sleep until after 5am. I expect a rough day today. I am praying to God that he will give her and I a day of peace.

Good luck waiting...

My WW went through a long period of not wanting SF or affection before her affair. I'd give you advice, but I don't know what I should have done diffeently.

BUT, DO that survey thing with her! Maybe if will help you clarify things with what needs of hers you should be concentrating on.

Thanks Gramn

I am going to do the EN survey. I plan on having an extra copy in case she wants to do hers. I am sorry for your D-Day and issues. I pray your Plan B works. Stay strong.

waiting, this is very good news! Do you know you can print the survey on this website? Keep listening to her and be careful not to try and educate her. She is definitely thinking about this. If you get an opportunity, ask her what things she thinks you could do to meet her needs? Ask her for ideas and ask her to describe the kind of marriage it would take to make her happy. Try and get her thinking about a future with you in a happy marriage. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

If you really want some confirmation on the NC you can do some snooping. There are plenty of suggestions in this forum such as voice activated digital recorder in wife’s car, key logger software on her computer, hand-held GPS in her car and so on. Just remember information is only good if used right.

I have resorted to some of the above methods and I am not sure whether I should have or not. It’s unethical (but so is an affair), can get addictive and you might get other information than you asked for. In my case I found no indications to confirm an affair, but heard some things my wife confided in her best friend about me that I would possibly be better off not knowing – as well as things about best friends husband I definitely did not want to know! Sort of like listening in on therapy.

I say addictive because it started consuming so much of my time thinking of ways to monitor her, thinking what I would learn, listening to recordings and so on.

Anyway, I would not resort to doing this again unless under the following guidelines:
(1) I would define a time period and if I have no results within that time period I would quit.
(2) I would be sure I want and need to know what I might hear.
(3) I would really think whether this knowledge will help me towards a better marriage or accepting an end to the marriage.
(4) I would force myself only to listen for what I am looking for. I for example accepted that my wife is entitled to a best friend to confide in.

Anyway, it sounds like you are possibly at least looking for the road to recovery rather than wandering aimlessly around. I hope the more experienced people here correct me if wrong, but I would focus the energy towards healing rather than scratching at scabs.

bigger, how is it "unethical" to catch someone cheating on you? By what standard?

Thanks MelodyLane,

I will try very hard not to educate her. In fact she says one thing that LB'd with her bigtime was me making her feel inadequte, stupid or whatever. She says I never said anything specific but would talk to her in a way that made her question her judgement on things. Sometimes, small sometimes big things. She never told me it bothered her when I would do that so she admits the Honesty thing is a problem for her. Says she either did not want to hurt my feelings or did not "stand up for what she believed in". Not just with me by the way.

Thanks so much for the advice.

Bigger, I had not thought of the ways you mentioned to find out about the NC. At this point I think she is telling me the truth, but that is a gut feeling. To be honest, I am so drained working on other stuff I don't think I have the energy to do anything other than what I am doing now. Thanks for the input.

You all are a God send.

By what ethics? By the ethics I try to live by. Ethics will always be relative and although there might be some communal group ethics then it is down to the individual to define his own. For example I firmly believe that MY ethics will always stand in the way of ME having an affair. My ethics don’t seem to stop other people having affairs (and who knows – maybe I might bend although I doubt it).

My ethics say I should never hit anyone – I have hit another man and spanked my son once…

Anyway, I am not in any way justifying an affair – far from it. And I did use these methods despite feeling bad about it. I confessed to myself that there was something wrong since I felt necessary to tape my wife. Extreme situations demand extreme measures. I can live with that.

But it’s like the debate on Home Security. At what point would an on site body search stop being a necessity and become harassment? That is possibly the point I tried (weakly) to get across. React in accordance to the situation.

Let’s just settle this with the understanding that affairs are serious and justify serious reactions.

Waitingonlove. I would tend to agree with you on concentrating on what you are doing.

bigger, if ethics are always relative, then you can't say that snooping is "unethical." Relativity prevents you from ever declaring anything wrong or unethical because you have voluntarily abolished the standard.

I also doubt that you would agree that every person gets to legitimately make up their own ethics if I punched you out and stole your wallet. I bet you would suddenly become an advocate of moral "absolutes."

I have noticed that moral relativists never seem to want that relativistic standard applied to THEM, only others.

The fact is that there is nothing "unethical" about snooping on someone you suspect is having an affair. It is a responsiblity to protect oneself. No one has the right to the privacy to destroy another person. The police are not being "unethical" when they snoop on drug dealers; it is the exact same principle.

The last thing that a wounded BS needs to read is that they are being "unethical" for protecting themselves from harm by snooping. Again, no one has the right to the privacy to destroy another human being behind their back.

MelodyLane,

I honestly don’t believe we are helping Waitinginlove with his problem. I am therefore not going to go into a discussion with you about ethics – at least not here. I suggest we agree to disagree.

WIL, let me just share my experience that I did snoop about my wife. Although I felt it necessary I also felt bad about it and did not get the information I expected. And the information I did get possibly caused me more problems than it solved.

ok by me, bigger, but it was you who brought it up by telling him snooping was "unethical." I don't think it's helpful to tell him that snooping is "unethical;" it's not.

Waiting, DO NOT feel bad about snooping. It is a self protective measure that you must take and there is nothing wrong with it. You have a right and a neccessity to know if she is still in contact. This is information about your life that enables you to make informed decisions. You cannot make informed decisions if you don"t have the facts.

MelodyLane and Bigger

Thank you both for your input on the subject. I really see both sides. I too feel bad that I have done it somewhat (phone bills, caller id, etc...) but I also know it was neccesary and the discovery was sooner rather than later because I did so. So long story short, I guess I mourn the fact that I felt I had to snoop in the 1st place.

I also know that my IF gut tells me I think she is in contact I will have to explore other measures which I will. I don't want to but I will.

Both of your hearts are in the right place. Please don't feel bad for disagreeing. Believe me, this is easier (seeing my fellow posters disaggree) than what I am going through with my wife at the moment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

After a very stressful lunch of her seemly not being able to get past her "no feellings" issue, which she dwelled on something terrible and cried. She made the comment at lunch that she just guessed she had to suck it up and pretend she had feelings and everyone would be happy. she kinda sarcastically stated then she would obviously feel better too.

I had something very unusual happen. We were at our son's ballgame last night and she picked up our oldest son to carry him home and she actually seemed in a good mood.

Well as she was leaving, she gave me a one armed hug goodbye . When I got home from our youngest sons ballgame she was in bed so going to bed was not stressful, but this morning she actually rolled over and put her arms around me. That has not happened since last week.

I am glad but is it also normal to be a bit concerned at the sudden turn around from lunch to about 7pm in the same day. I know she has still been reading the book, I saw last night where she has been highligting in it.

Anyone have any thoughts? Am I strange for wondering what is going on in her head?

This is a textbook withdrawal from an affair. And it is going quite good actually. The fog seems to be clearing! But you can expect moodiness, that is part of it. Just keep doing your best to meet her needs and don't allow her to bait you into a fight.