Glad to hear the session went well.

The fact she is running from God is an indication she is feeling guilt at least.

That message on repentance I pointed you to is a great one. Really had a huge reaction in my wife.

God Bless. Hang in there.

I like the advice Mel and Owl have been giving you.

My wife too was 'running from God' when she had her A, and while she was still unrepentent and in withdrawl.

I'll never forget the day that she had IC and she decided to go shopping here in the area where I work until I finished up work. I called her while I was walking over to the Christian store she was in (and it surprised me that she was there)...and she quoted to me a sign she found there...it was apparently a saying written by Confuscios but they still had it at that store...the saying read "No matter where you go, always go there with all of your heart".

When I got there, she was in tears, and I was soo worried it was some kind of setback. She looked me in the eyes and told me "That's why I couldn't go be with OM...because I COULDN'T go there with all of my heart. But I AM able to stay HERE with all of my heart.".

She started picking up some good Christian books that helped her recover from the A as well...and that was one of the best signs I had that she really HAD ended the EA and made her choice to stay.

You'll get there my friend...just hang in there and keep praying. Remember...pray for God's will to be done here, not your own or anyone else's. He's the one with the best plan for all of you anyway.

I know that is the real true problem. It is really pathetic how Satan is so successful with the same old tired trap to attack people and marriages with, but I guess he keeps using it because it works.

Distraction from God through whatever, then when your defenses are down and you are your weakest, the ingrediants for an EA begins. I know that is what happened to my wife.

She started focussing on other stuff and before she and I knew it, wham.

I am praying God's will be done. At times I am scared praying that because I want to pray for my wife back, but I realize now that I really don't want my wife back.

The wife I had is not were I want to go. I want something much greater. I am sure my wife deep down wants something better than me.

I want to have want God wants. I know ultimately that is for our marriage to be newly created. She better than before and me also.

I just know that God will not force himself on others and my wife has a free will choice to decide to follow him or rebel which she is doing now.

All in all, I see God at work. I noticed her listening to the Christian radio station yesterday. Mind you she is not doing it all the time, but at least she is tuning in.

I really look forward to the day that she starts opening her bible and reading. I am not sure about her pray life at the moment because I am not around all the time and don't know what she does in private, but I suspect it is rather weak right now.

Last night there was no affection from her and none this morning, so that is part of the roller coaster ride.

I also think she is still in the fog and probably thinking about the OM some. Also, the horse show season is over now and she doesn't have to pine away at what she is missing. Each weekend she would pull up the web and login to live broadcast to see who was winning.

Everything just moves so slow. God's timing I guess.

Thanks Owl. Your words have been very encouraging.

I am feeling so down tonight.

I came home and when I come in the house it is like a friend has come over. I work all day and I am so disappointed that there is no hug, or anything.

My oldest son has decorated like crazy for Christmas and my wife has been working on tomorrows get together most of the day. We were outside viewing his lights and I gave my wife a 1 armed hug and she basically was stiff.

I really miss the affection from my wife. I actually crave affection from her to the point that it is scaring me. What I mean is that just 2 days ago I was picking up my youngest son from some friends of ours and my wife was with me and our friends wife just gave me an innocent hug and it was so nice. Not in an affair kind of way (although I know that is how one can start) , but it just felt good to have someone touch me in a caring way.

I feel almost dirty even confessing that on this post and I have not dwelled on that hug, but I really need my wife to show affection and she is just not going there.

I am afraid if she finally does how I might react. Will I cry in gratitude, will I push away because she hugged and kissed someone else, will it even matter.

I am sorry if what I confessed offends anyone, I really do not intend that to take place, but I really do miss her affection so much.

My 2 sons are pretty affectionate and they are very hugging at the moment. They sense I need it. Heck even my dog (yellow lab) seems to sense it. Why can't my wife?

She cried and cried to our MC yesterday that she feels guilty because she does not have the kind of feeling she should have for her husband. I just don't understand why she can't see that nothing is going to happen until she tries.

I feel like I am drowning at times in a sea of sorrow.

´HI!

Has it ever occourd to you that her lacking feelings towords you

Might be for real? And you trying to force her to feel something she dosent want..

Ps try not to be so controling all the time

M33

Thanks for your input but I do not feel she just suddenly lost her feelings toward me. I fully believe it is the fog of withdrawel and the post d-day feelings she is experiancing. Also, I have a question and it is sincere. What about what I posted makes you think I am being controling. I am being sincere in my question. If you think so, please let me know because all I have done the last 10 weeks is try to hold our marriage together.

Hiya waiting. Had to go away yesterday. couldn't post.

My wife is still not reading her bible but I know she is open to God and is praying a lot. She also shows signs of being touched by God in church.

Just keep on doing what you are doing. Sure. Pray God's will is done but know for certain His will is not the disollution of your marriage. Your wife is a free being with a free will. God will not coerce her at all. She does at some point have to make a decision to move on and make your marriage work. When my wife came home and while in withdrawal she had no feelings for me at all. Even now there are days when she does not feel any love for me - but they are less & less. We are having our 23rd wedding anniversary this weekend and we are going away. She is really looking forward to that. Last night we had SF but then she lay awake all night thinking about the affair and having images flashing through her mind and she was fighting against them.

I really think we BS's still don't fully understand the power of these emotions in our WW's.

Keep in touch with SH. Do what he says. I just pray your wife makes the decision that will lead to recovery. The decision will come first. The feelings will come later as a consequence of that decision.

This weekend is the 3 month anniversary of D-Day and the 10th week of NC and recovery. My wife gave me SF 2 weeks after she came home to me - even though she definitely didn't feel anything for me. She did it as an act of her will to help her get over this thing. Maybe 4 weeks now she has said she loves me and she means it. The feelings are returning although can be transient. She still gets tortured a bit by the affair.

You can make it waiting. Just don't give up or give in. Don't be too clingy either.

Thanks BK. I look forward to that day. I am trying to not be too clingy. I just miss the affection terribly.

Today we had Thanksgiving at our house. We will be married 21 yrs on 12/15/2006 and this is our 20th Thanksgiving together and since year one we have had all of our family to our house. Over the years our crowd has grown from brothers and sisters, and In Laws and grandparents to include our children, grandchildren, friends. We have hosted as many as 35 at our home and the holiday has truly been the highlight holiday of the year for both my wife's and my family.

We look forward to it every year. This year it has been a dread for my wife. Her parents made the decision to no show . My wife's sister (that had an affair and left her husband) has not been in 2 years and my wife's brother and his 2nd wife have basically quit coming.

This year we had my brother, his wife, their 2 children and my mom. Our smallest crowd ever. A total of 9 people. I enjoyed it and so did our children but my wife was very down because her family would not come.

There are some excuses as to why they are not coming, but I believe they did not come because of me and the problems in our marriage. I believe my MIL and FIL are not being supportive to rebuilding our marriage. I am not sure how my wife described our problems when she confessed to her affair to them. I was not there.

The only reason I mention this is it makes our job to rebuild our marriage very difficult. Her Dad is very controlling and opinionated and her mother is very narcissistic .

I am praying God's will to be done, but I feel like I am walking through a desert with very little water.

I was very disappointed today. I found my wifes homework that Steve Harvey asked her to complete. Steve wanted each of us to work on a plan for how to meet the others top 4 EN's. Mine was affection, sf, rec. comp, and honesty/openness.

I was excited about this assignment in hopes that it would help her spark some feelings for me. I really have not noticed her doing anything we talked about. Today I found out why.

Basically she wrote down that affection and sf was absolutely nothing she could do without feelings for me. Under Rec. Comp she said she would watch sports on tv and go to our favorite college football home games. (season is over tommorow). That was it. She did not want to walk with me, excersize or ride in the car together to just ride around.

Under honestly/openness she said she would answer my questions the first time I ask her rather than stall and also tell me about her day.

Only 3 things she said she could do. My heart sunk.

Her needs are Conversation, Honesty/Openness, Affection and SF. Obviously I can't meet the last 2 and Conversation is difficult at best because she just disengages. I can't be much more honest.

I also saw yesterday that she pulled up and dating/relatoinship collum on MSN. It was more directed to singles and marriage. I want to ask her why, but I know that would be a disrepectful judgement LB so I want. It does though make me wonder what she is thinking.

I guess I should be happy she at least found 3 to write down.

waiting on love


Traditional wisdom on this board says that spouses should have very little secrecy between them and that there is a difference between privacy (closing the door when you use the bathroom) and secrecy (doing things your spouse doesn't know about). I think that reading your w's homework from Steve, unless she specifically handed it to you and said it was ok, steps over the line of respecting PRIVACY in your marriage. It wasn't a secret activity - you knew she had the assignment - and yet it was something she was probably instructed to do without you present for a very good reason. And, although I don't know this for a fact, I strongly suspect that Steve had a process in mind for revealing the information to each of you.

My suggestion to you would be that you respect your wife's privacy with regard to marriage counseling homework and allow the information to come to you through the process that Steve manages - after all, you're paying him good money for his professional services! Consider that you might be damaging your marriage by not allowing the information to be revealed to you in the context that it should be revealed in - ie. Steve might challenge some of your wife's answers and give her the opportunity to ask him questions and brainstorm some and the final result might not look the same as this brief glimpse. So, next time you find her homework, please consider this an area of marital privacy as opposed to secrecy (in which snooping is a valid, productive behavior).

I'm not trying to chastise you (well, maybe a little in the area of patience which is like the pot calling the kettle black) I'm just concerned that you're going to make the process harder on both of you than it all ready is and needs to be. Next time, don't look!


Mmm.. going down this train of thought is likely to lead you to some disrespectful judgements. I think it's a good idea not to ask her about it at this point, though you might mention it to Steve. I wouldn't put much more thought into it than that, if you're able, though. Look at it this way - regardless of how things should be or might be - your wife is telling you she's not certain your marriage will survive. I think it's pretty natural for her to be attracted to that type of topic (relationships after marriage) just because of what you guys are going through. I don't think it's any more than that or any larger sign (and, no, I don't think it's necessarily a very productive thing for her to do but it's probably about as irresistable to her as peeking at her answers when you know you shoudn't is to you.)

Your marital problems are obviously very much on her mind. She's uncertain. Women, especially, have a tendency to 'try things on emotionally' when we're weighing important decisions. That was my first thought when I read about the column. If it's that, then don't let it concern you greatly as those things tend to be part and parcel of a process of decision making and not particularly releveant to the decision that's made (or, in other words, neither decision will be made without it anyway so don't get too bent out of shape, ya know?)

I wish you the best of luck.

Mys

Mys

You brought up some points I had not thought of before. I wish I did not see what I did and I wish I did not read it. I guess I felt like a child that found his Christmas present and peaked and was disappointed when we found out what he was getting. Not only was the gift not what was expected but the guilt slipped in for doing something he shouldn't have.

I feel very bad about that. I do appreciate you candor though.

Also, your 2nd point about the website she was on brought me some perspective as well. I will try not to give it another thought.

I am just having a very difficult time. My tank is running dry while I am trying to fill up hers. I love my wife very much and it is just very difficult for me to understand what is going on in her mind.

I am doing my best to learn new behavior and change my thought process of how love develops and how it stays and grows.

waitingonlove


Well, now, don't beat yourself up about it too much. It is a pretty irresistable urge to peek when you're waiting on something - particularly something about which you have such high hopes. It's also very, very hard to be patient when you're in pain. Heck. I have a hard time being patient even when I'm NOT in pain.

Now you know; you can choose not to do it anymore.



Good.


I know you're having a very difficult time. I've never been a WW (in fact, I've not dealt with infidelity, thank goodness, I tend to post on EN's but was reading here and saw your post) but I imagine she's having a very difficult time too.

You're in the rough spot of waiting on her to make a decision about what she's going to do and she's in the rough spot of trying to figure out what she's going to do. To those of us on the sidelines and to you, the decision she has to make seems like a no brainer and it's very easy to loose patience with her for 'dithering' around. Right now, she's trying to cobble together whatever "data" she needs in order to make what is, in her mind, her best decision. That "data" will look very different than the "data" you might cobble together because there's a good chance that, as a woman, she tends to be more emotional/intuitive (a Feeler on the Myers Briggs test) than logical/sequential (a Thinker on the Myers Briggs test). Not all women are "feelers" but most of them are. Just like not all men are "thinkers" but most of them are. I'm a "feeler" with a capital, probably maxed out, F! My H is definitely a Thinker type - he's an engineer. It's pretty obvious when you sit us down to brainstorm solutions, too.

If I assume that you're opposite types according to the population norms, then you're seeing the decision from a completely different perspective than she is because you use different data to form your decisions than she does. Now, that doesn't mean that she can't come to the same decision that you have come to - just that when, or if, she does it will be through completely different channels and using completely different critera than you did.

My best suggestion to you is to let her collect the data that she needs in order to make her decision. Try to be accepting that she's going to see things and 'try things on' that are very different from the process you'd take or that you'd probably like her to take. Resist any urges you have to 'lead her' into your process because, again, the data you use is unlikely to bear significant weight on her primary decision making criteria (and, frankly, it's annoying when someone keeps throwing data at you like you're supposed to suddenly say "Aha! I see the light! I've been making decisions the wrong way this whole time!" (speaking about the process of being emotional/intuitive vs logical/sequential not the actual decisions here.))

Let Steve do his job. I'm certain he's very well versed in the different personality types and how they use different data to form decisions. Even if the things he's doing don't seem as though they might impact YOU greatly, that doesn't mean that they won't impact her in profound ways. Be mindful that the parts of the process that work BEST for you (ex. creating a plan) might be the parts of the process that work LEAST for her and vice versa. And, that's OK, because in the end it matters most where you end up (together, hopefully) and not the path that you needed to take to get there.

In summary, be kind to yourself. You're going through a lot. Be a participant (not the leader) in your marriage counseling and try to squelch your urge to 'fix it all.' This is a process. You've taken the right step in hiring an expert, let him drive the process. Practice patience and cultivate hope. If nothing else, if you learn all that, you can really say you've grown from the process regardless of the outcome, eh?


Say that with pride and mean it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mys

Wow Mys. What a great post. Thanks for that.

Hi Waiting. Hope you are having a nice weekend. Just finished reading 5 love languages by Gary Chapman. One of the chapters deals with meeting someone's needs who you have no feelings for. Might be worth you having a list. But in summary, it becomes a choice by that person to meet the need as an act of love in the first place with feelings following.

That post by Mys is very insightful.

All the best.

Hi BK

Weekend has been ok.

I read the 5 love languages several years ago, prior to first EA d-day. I did not get much from it but on the other hand I was not looking for anything either. I thought we had the perfect marriage. Silly me.

I will pull it off the shelf and look at it again from the BS side of things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I did like both of Mys's post, especially the 2nd one to me.

Man, I must confess, I just am having a hard time without hardly any of my needs being meet. I bent over to give her a peck good bye tonight before we went to the big football game tonight. She stayed home because she is sick. Ear infection, etc... Anyway, you would have thought I was some stranger trying to kiss her. I wasn't anything romantic, more platonic if you know what I mean, but that has really stuck with me.

I guess it stuck with me because I remember prior to d-day and especially prior to this EA/PA we had a lot of passion when we kissed and sleep together. You needed a crow bar to pull us apart in the morning from cuddleing. Now there is nothing and it just baffles me.

I know I should not be looking for much at the moment but my mind has plenty of time to think about stuff like that.

I also it when I see a nice looking women that I wonder, hum, what would it be like to be free of all this and just move on. I really do not want to do that, but just dangles that temptation out there for me and it just torments me. Not that I am doing that or would even consider it at this point, but it is like it is a tempation that is just there to torment me. I feel just awful having the thoughts.

Then I think about her and the OM and what they did and it makes me sick. I wonder to myself, how could she do that to us. Me, the Kids and even herself. What was she thinking?

Once again, I am interjecting logic where there is none, but my mind just can't shake the thought process.

Has anyone had any luck shaking the thoughts I am speaking of. Thoughts of WS and OP and also the thoughts of the BS just saying cya and moving on.

I am really struggling supressing these thoughts. How do I win that mental battle?

Help please someone ....... ?????

waiting Im in the same boat as you. I have my good days & my bad days the only thing that has help me is the encouragement of people on this board ( thanks bigkahuna) & from my counsoler who keeps say Im doing the right things. I dont no how long I can hold out before I say cya & move on, I just want to make sure before I do that I did everything I could. Also I wonder if she is just trying to get me to give up & file for a D so she can blame me to feel better time will tell. I have just been trying to stay busy around the house to keep my mind off it. Good luck

Cliff

When is your next appt with SH? Hang in there mate. Have faith. Believe.

BK

I am trying my best to have Faith and Believe. Our next appointment is Thursday of this week.

Our progress was particularly shaken today IMO. I have been concerned about NC for quite sometime. Today she was gone for about 1 1/2 hours to carry our son to his friends house. Total trip would be only about 40 minutes tops. It concerned me that she may be calling the OM from pay phones with a calling card or even using a secret cell phone. Usually when she returns from trips like this she comes back rather melancholy and today was no difference. She was pretty much shutdown to me.

I decided rather than sit around and worry about it, to go ahead and ask her. I tried not to make a disrespectful judgement, but I guess it is hard to do. We got into a pretty heated conversation to say the least. I do believe her with what she said she was doing. The long and the short of it, we started talking about meeting each others needs this evening.

I told her I am trying desperately to meet hers but it is hard because A and SF are not something she wants presently. I also told her that I am trying to be available for conversation as much as possible and be honest and open with her.

She said she would not be able nor would she meet my need for A or SF without feelings for me. She said SH told her to go ahead and look at it like and event you did not really want to go to, but when you get there you wind up having fun. She did not like that analogy.
She said she was trying to meet my needs of Honesty/Openness and Recreational Comp. She pointed out that she watched football pretty much this whole weekend.

Her biggest hangup is she does not see any of this working for us. In fact she says I am the only one that believes this will work. She says she is tired of being analyzed, feeling bad, being depressed, etc.... but that she guesses she will keep doing this because she has too.

I took MelodyLane's advice, took a big gulp, and reminded her that I have not tied her up and made her do anything she did not want to do. I told her she was a Big and could decide for herself what she wanted to do, that I did appreciate what she had done to this point, but I was not making her do any of this. She said she had to keep everybody happy. I pressed her for who was she trying to keep happy. She said, Me, and our 2 sons. I told her she still had the choice but we all appreciated that she was still going to counseling.

She also said she knows she is not supposed to look around the corner, but she as going to mention it anyway. She said the POJA was something she could not abide by and she thought that was ridiculous. I told her I did not understand it completely and I was not going to try to explain it to her since I did not understand it and lets just wait until Steve H. discusses it with us.

She wanted to push the issue and discuss it. It basically came down to horse shows (the place where both A's occurred). I told her I have not taken horse shows off the list and I even told her I did not think is was something we needed to negotiate at this point. She said she knew the OM would be there and I would have a problem with that and she did not think seeing OM from a distance at an event would be a big issue and make the affair start again. I told her, there had been no "line in the sand" drawn by her for him to stay away. We discussed that for awhile and she asked me what I thought would do that.

I told her the only thing I could think of would be a NC letter written by her. She said she did not want to "feel" like she was being made to do that. I told her again I was not telling her to, but if she did I would be very grateful.

She insisted the A's are not our problem. I finally gave her what she had been looking for. I told her I did not make her have the affair, but I created an environment that was ripe for one taking place by not meeting her needs of conversation and honestly and openness and by making various LB's along the way.

Basically I am not sure where we are now. She obviously does not want to do MC with SH or our other MC. But at least she is still going. She sees no hope, says her heart is like granite toward me and does not want anything from me.

I just really don't know what to do other than keep trying. Please someone tell me that has recovered that my sitch is not out of reach. Obviously I cannot capture in a post an 1 hour conversation, but I am doing my best. Do we still have a chance. Are there any former couples that can see hope for us.

I really need something to hang on to. I am pouring everything I can into this. I am trying to learn to be a better husband and person. Will she be able to see this?

Hi waiting. If you want to see how bad it can get, have a look at some posts here. Some people don't make it but lots do. Have a look at "Surviving an Affair" by Harley. That one got pretty bad too.

Have you asked your son what his mom does when she takes him out? Have you done any snooping?

I hate to say it but I suspect she is either contacting OM or someone else. It sounds like the affair might be still going. I could be very wrong. Why is she so against a NC letter? Doesn't make sense.

I have to say that I suspect she is still in contact, waiting. Is there any way you could bug her car to pick up conversations? Or have a PI follow her? For someone this far from her last contact, she seems awfully withdrawn. What do you think, waiting?

Sigh......... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I don't think you can even use the word "suspect" here Mel....it is pretty clear.......I'd be happy to eat crow on this one also.....but sadly, doubt I will.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />